Celibacy : Importance , Reasons ...

[jathedar]

I read somewhere once that "to be truly spiritual, you must reduce or cut down on 3 things - Sex, food and sleep" The reason for this is they promote attachment to the gross body. With sex i believe it is not just physical but mental. If you even think sexual thoughts this leads to loss of ojas. Indian wrestlers who promote a Brahmcarya lifestyle also say a person who controls sexual desires can be noticed by a healthy glow around his face, this is ojas. Prevention of ejaculation or even doing Vajroli (where semen is sucked back up the penis) does not ensure retention of ojas. Pure brahmcarya involves a high level of mental purity, not just abstaining from sex. Subjective purity not Objective

BUT as they say Ek Nari - Brahmchari, this means even being married you can be brahmcarya by controlling or destroying lusty thoughts. To go back to the first point about Ojas, why would a singh want to cultivate ojas. Because it improves concentration and you can do simran one-pointedly without images of breasts etc. popping up in your mind. Why do you think wrestlers are brahmchari, it gives a person more strength energy and concentration ability, you can do simran for hours and hours and hours.

Just another point, to get obsessed about controlling desires or abstaining from sex is bad. If you feel like sexing it up don't repress the desire, let it get destroyed on its own, by keeping in mind that you want burn all desires, and one day you will beleive it.

i think hollywood actors have more ojas than some oily pehalwan in india , please no offense its mostly true. beauty comes from humility and love not from holding semen in your body. also what should women be holding? do you agree in that terms that women is inferior to men physically, same like saadu's believe?

[Bane]

Celibacy may indeed be essential for people who have an experience of kundalini rising. It all depends on what level of evolution an individual is at. (I use the term evolution in a spiritual sense, not in terms of intelligence.) Pandit Gopi Krishna who had an experience of kundalini, states that in kundalini active people, the vital seed is taken up the sushumna nadi to the brain where it helps "expand" consciousness. Releasing semen in this situation, reverses kundalini flow and can cause a person to "burn" his body and in extreme cases to die.

About the argument that semen will come out naturally. I say that this is put forward by people who have no desire to purify their psyche by facing and looking at their perverted lusts, hidden deep within the subconscious. Emission during night will happen because the mind is not in a stable Ekagaratha mode, it is chanchal, even in dreams. It can become stable through simran, which after practise and grace will pervade all 3 states.

It all depends what you want in life. Ask and ye shall receive.

[Guest]

great post bane ji,

Welcome to the Forum. Topics in meditation section defaniately need your input

[randip singh]

It is Kaam we as Sikh are told to avoid.

What is Kaam?

Kaam = Lust or an unhealthy OBSESSION with Sex. Much like an alcoholics addiction to alcohol.

Celibacy goes against Guru Nanaks teachings of a householder and therfore has no place in Sikhism.

[Guest]

Celibacy goes against Guru Nanaks teachings of a householder and therfore has no place in Sikhism

Nope it does not. Bhai Gurdas Ji, Baba Budda Ji, Baba Deep Singh were all celibates.

There is famous sakhi of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji even told banda singh bahudar not to marry because grisht jivan is not for him, he got married and got his children heart sucked into his mouth.

In Gurmat Advait Sidhant but gristh jivan and behangum (celibate) marg are acceptable, it depends on the individual i suppose.

[randip singh]

Nope it does not. Bhai Gurdas Ji, Baba Budda Ji, Baba Deep Singh were all celibates.

There is famous sakhi of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji even told banda singh bahudar not to marry because grisht jivan is not for him, he got married and got his children heart sucked into his mouth.

In Gurmat Advait Sidhant but gristh jivan and behangum (celibate) marg are acceptable, it depends on the individual i suppose.

I totally disagree on this one. Celibacy goes to the very heart of Sikhism. It is a form of asceticism. There is a massive difference between those who do not find the right partner (as in the cases highlighted above), and those who are celibates.

We have examples of various sects who have been made outcastes from Sikhs because they espouse celibacy. It is not the Sikh way. It is not the way of the householder, and is more akin to Catholcism.

Page 418 Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥

आसा महला १ ॥

aasaa mehlaa 1.

Aasaa, First Mehl:

ਚਾਰੇ ਕੁੰਡਾ ਢੂਢੀਆ ਕੋ ਨੀਮ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਮੈਡਾ ॥

चारे कुंडा ढूढीआ को नीम्ही मैडा ॥

chaaray kundaa dhoodhee-aa ko neemHee maidaa.

I have searched in the four directions, but no one is mine.

ਜੇ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸਾਹਿਬਾ ਤੂ ਮੈ ਹਉ ਤੈਡਾ ॥੧॥

जे तुधु भावै साहिबा तू मै हउ तैडा ॥१॥

jay tuDh bhaavai saahibaa too mai ha-o taidaa. ||1||

If it pleases You, O Lord Master, then You are mine, and I am Yours. ||1||

ਦਰੁ ਬੀਭਾ ਮੈ ਨੀਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਕੋ ਕੈ ਕਰੀ ਸਲਾਮੁ ॥

दरु बीभा मै नीम्हि को कै करी सलामु ॥

dar beebhaa mai neemiH ko kai karee salaam.

There is no other door for me; where shall I go to worship?

ਹਿਕੋ ਮੈਡਾ ਤੂ ਧਣੀ ਸਾਚਾ ਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

हिको मैडा तू धणी साचा मुखि नामु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

hiko maidaa too Dhanee saachaa mukh naam. ||1|| rahaa-o.

You are my only Lord; Your True Name is in my mouth. ||1||Pause||

ਸਿਧਾ ਸੇਵਨਿ ਸਿਧ ਪੀਰ ਮਾਗਹਿ ਰਿਧਿ ਸਿਧਿ ॥

सिधा सेवनि सिध पीर मागहि रिधि सिधि ॥

siDhaa sayvan siDh peer maageh riDh siDh.

Some serve the Siddhas, the beings of spiritual perfection, and some serve spiritual teachers; they beg for wealth and miraculous powers.

ਮੈ ਇਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਸਾਚੇ ਗੁਰ ਬੁਧਿ ॥੨॥

मै इकु नामु न वीसरै साचे गुर बुधि ॥२॥

mai ik naam na veesrai saachay gur buDh. ||2||

May I never forget the Naam, the Name of the One Lord. This is the wisdom of the True Guru. ||2||

ਜੋਗੀ ਭੋਗੀ ਕਾਪੜੀ ਕਿਆ ਭਵਹਿ ਦਿਸੰਤਰ ॥

जोगी भोगी कापड़ी किआ भवहि दिसंतर ॥

jogee bhogee kaaprhee ki-aa bhaveh disantar.

Why do the Yogis, the revellers, and the beggars wander in foreign lands?

ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਨ ਚੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਹੀ ਤਤੁ ਸਾਰੁ ਨਿਰੰਤਰ ॥੩॥

गुर का सबदु न चीन्हही ततु सारु निरंतर ॥३॥

gur kaa sabad na cheenhee tat saar nirantar. ||3||

They do not understand the Word of the Guru's Shabad, and the essence of excellence within them. ||3||

ਪੰਡਿਤ ਪਾਧੇ ਜੋਇਸੀ ਨਿਤ ਪੜ੍ਹਹਿ ਪੁਰਾਣਾ ॥

पंडित पाधे जोइसी नित पड़्हहि पुराणा ॥

pandit paaDhay jo-isee nit parheh puraanaa.

The Pandits, the religious scholars, the teachers and astrologers, and those who endlessly read the Puraanas,

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਵਸਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਘਟਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਲੁਕਾਣਾ ॥੪॥

अंतरि वसतु न जाणन्ही घटि ब्रहमु लुकाणा ॥४॥

antar vasat na jaananHee ghat barahm lukaanaa. ||4||

do not know what is within; God is hidden deep within them. ||4||

ਇਕਿ ਤਪਸੀ ਬਨ ਮਹਿ ਤਪੁ ਕਰਹਿ ਨਿਤ ਤੀਰਥ ਵਾਸਾ ॥

इकि तपसी बन महि तपु करहि नित तीरथ वासा ॥

ik tapsee ban meh tap karahi nit tirath vaasaa.

Some penitents perform penance in the forests, and some dwell forever at sacred shrines.

ਆਪੁ ਨ ਚੀਨਹਿ ਤਾਮਸੀ ਕਾਹੇ ਭਏ ਉਦਾਸਾ ॥੫॥

आपु न चीनहि तामसी काहे भए उदासा ॥५॥

aap na cheeneh taamsee kaahay bha-ay udaasaa. ||5||

The unenlightened people do not understand themselves - why have they become renunciates? ||5||

ਇਕਿ ਬਿੰਦੁ ਜਤਨ ਕਰਿ ਰਾਖਦੇ ਸੇ ਜਤੀ ਕਹਾਵਹਿ ॥

इकि बिंदु जतन करि राखदे से जती कहावहि ॥

ik bind jatan kar raakh-day say jatee kahaaveh.

Some control their sexual energy, and are known as celibates.

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦ ਨ ਛੂਟਹੀ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਆਵਹਿ ਜਾਵਹਿ ॥੬॥

बिनु गुर सबद न छूटही भ्रमि आवहि जावहि ॥६॥

bin gur sabad na chhoothee bharam aavahi jaaveh. ||6||

But without the Guru's Word, they are not saved, and they wander in reincarnation. ||6||

ਇਕਿ ਗਿਰਹੀ ਸੇਵਕ ਸਾਧਿਕਾ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਲਾਗੇ ॥

इकि गिरही सेवक साधिका गुरमती लागे ॥

ik girhee sayvak saaDhikaa gurmatee laagay.

Some are householders, servants, and seekers, attached to the Guru's Teachings.

ਨਾਮੁ ਦਾਨੁ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜੁ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਸੁ ਜਾਗੇ ॥੭॥

नामु दानु इसनानु द्रिड़ु हरि भगति सु जागे ॥७॥

naam daan isnaan darirh har bhagat so jaagay. ||7||

They hold fast to the Naam, to charity, to cleansing and purification; they remain awake in devotion to the Lord. ||7||

ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਦਰੁ ਘਰੁ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਸੋ ਜਾਇ ਸਿਞਾਣੈ ॥

गुर ते दरु घरु जाणीऐ सो जाइ सिञाणै ॥

gur tay dar ghar jaanee-ai so jaa-ay sinjaanai.

Through the Guru, the Gate of the Lord's Home is found, and that place is recognized.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਸਾਚੇ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨੈ ॥੮॥੧੪॥

नानक नामु न वीसरै साचे मनु मानै ॥८॥१४॥

naanak naam na veesrai saachay man maanai. ||8||14||

Nanak does not forget the Naam; his mind has surrendered to the True Lord. ||8||14||

and Page 1282 Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

ਪਉੜੀ ॥

पउड़ी ॥

pa-orhee.

Pauree:

ਨਾਥ ਜਤੀ ਸਿਧ ਪੀਰ ਕਿਨੈ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

नाथ जती सिध पीर किनै अंतु न पाइआ ॥

naath jatee siDh peer kinai ant na paa-i-aa.

The Yogic Masters, celibates, Siddhas and spiritual teachers - none of them has found the limits of the Lord.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇ ਤੁਝੈ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥

गुरमुखि नामु धिआइ तुझै समाइआ ॥

gurmukh naam Dhi-aa-ay tujhai samaa-i-aa.

The Gurmukhs meditate on the Naam, and merge in You, O Lord.

ਜੁਗ ਛਤੀਹ ਗੁਬਾਰੁ ਤਿਸ ਹੀ ਭਾਇਆ ॥

जुग छतीह गुबारु तिस ही भाइआ ॥

jug chhateeh bubaar tis hee bhaa-i-aa.

For thirty-six ages, God remained in utter darkness, as He pleased.

ਜਲਾ ਬਿੰਬੁ ਅਸਰਾਲੁ ਤਿਨੈ ਵਰਤਾਇਆ ॥

जला बि्मबु असरालु तिनै वरताइआ ॥

jalaa bimb asraal tinai vartaa-i-aa.

The vast expanse of water swirled around.

ਨੀਲੁ ਅਨੀਲੁ ਅਗੰਮੁ ਸਰਜੀਤੁ ਸਬਾਇਆ ॥

नीलु अनीलु अगमु सरजीतु सबाइआ ॥

neel aneel agamm sarjeet sabaa-i-aa.

The Creator of all is Infinite, Endless and Inaccessible.

ਅਗਨਿ ਉਪਾਈ ਵਾਦੁ ਭੁਖ ਤਿਹਾਇਆ ॥

अगनि उपाई वादु भुख तिहाइआ ॥

agan upaa-ee vaad bhukh tihaa-i-aa.

He formed fire and conflict, hunger and thirst.

ਦੁਨੀਆ ਕੈ ਸਿਰਿ ਕਾਲੁ ਦੂਜਾ ਭਾਇਆ ॥

दुनीआ कै सिरि कालु दूजा भाइआ ॥

dunee-aa kai sir kaal doojaa bhaa-i-aa.

Death hangs over the heads of the people of the world, in the love of duality.

ਰਖੈ ਰਖਣਹਾਰੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੁਝਾਇਆ ॥੯॥

रखै रखणहारु जिनि सबदु बुझाइआ ॥९॥

rakhai rakhanhaar jin sabad bujhaa-i-aa. ||9||

The Savior Lord saves those who realize the Word of the Shabad. ||9||

I reiterate again..........it is Kaam (abnornal sexual behaviour or an obsession with sex) we should be concerned with. Not normal sexual urges. We are not God, so why are we trying to interfere in his/her natural creation?

[karmjeet]

Bhai Randip Singh ,

Whether the sexual urges are normal or obsessive a person will attain mukti only when all kinds of urges and desires are eliminated and when there is only one desire for the love of God .

Celibacy alone will not work wonders . Its of no use if a person has a lot of haumai just because he is celibate .

Celibacy is not forbidden by Guru Ji . Otherwise why would great sikhs and saints in the past be celibate ?

Its like an option . Those who chose to be celibate can do so but those who want to have families are also welcome .

Celibates in sikhi are usually very very high chardikala hardcore sants such as baba nand singh , sant attar singh . sant ishar singh etc . its their powerhouse . because they are japping nam not only for them but for the udhar of millions of jeevs and srishtis . they are the nit avatars . they are the karaks . they come to this world only for the elimination of paaap and pakhand .

Guru ji also know that not everyone can become a sant . so there is also an easy maarag . the gristh jeevan .

But a couple can be a celibate in gristh jeevan also . by having no thoughts about other women or men , not looking at women , no desires for others except their own and moderating their acts in a way so that it doesn't affect their spirituality and strength . now how they do it is their own business .

and if they are walking on bhagti maarag ultimately they will realise the importance of celibacy .

celibacy is like a foundation on which buildings of naam and seva are built . prem for guru ji is a strong cement that keeps this building intact . this building is the persons jeevan .

bhul chuk maaf

[Xylitol]

ACtually, in Kaljug, it is very difficult if not impossible for the majority of people to attain the highest spiritual level if they are celibate. This is b/c the mun secretly wants to satisfy its curiosity. Also, it is b/c in this age Kaljug is so strong that to deal with kaam a householder lifestyle is needed for most. But there are those who are strong enough to escape kaam, and they do not need a gristhi lifestyle, but can choose to live it.

Also, note that living with family it is better spiritually to be in gristhi unless you live in a dera. This is b/c if you do kirt karna your time for simran will be limited compared to a sant/ascetic. japping naam with family means that you have sangat that helps you. Also, when you do kirt karna you are supporting yourself. Sants are oftentimes supported by donations from sangat. So they have to jap exta Naam to pay off all the seva of them that is being done. There are many advantages to gristhi jeevan, what's best is dependent on our own spirituality - for most it is grishti jeevan.

It is not wrong to learn from other religions, but reading that brahmacharya book, i found that they see gristhi as a lowly second compared to complete celibacy - completely untrue and not in line with sikhi at all.

bhul chuk maaf.

[randip singh]

Bhai Randip Singh ,

Whether the sexual urges are normal or obsessive a person will attain mukti only when all kinds of urges and desires are eliminated and when there is only one desire for the love of God .

Celibacy alone will not work wonders . Its of no use if a person has a lot of haumai just because he is celibate .

Celibacy is not forbidden by Guru Ji . Otherwise why would great sikhs and saints in the past be celibate ?

Its like an option . Those who chose to be celibate can do so but those who want to have families are also welcome .

Celibates in sikhi are usually very very high chardikala hardcore sants such as baba nand singh , sant attar singh . sant ishar singh etc . its their powerhouse . because they are japping nam not only for them but for the udhar of millions of jeevs and srishtis . they are the nit avatars . they are the karaks . they come to this world only for the elimination of paaap and pakhand .

Guru ji also know that not everyone can become a sant . so there is also an easy maarag . the gristh jeevan .

But a couple can be a celibate in gristh jeevan also . by having no thoughts about other women or men , not looking at women , no desires for others except their own and moderating their acts in a way so that it doesn't affect their spirituality and strength . now how they do it is their own business .

and if they are walking on bhagti maarag ultimately they will realise the importance of celibacy .

celibacy is like a foundation on which buildings of naam and seva are built . prem for guru ji is a strong cement that keeps this building intact . this building is the persons jeevan .

bhul chuk maaf

I understand where you are coming from, but please direct your comments at the Angs from the Guru Granth Sahib ji which condem celibacy.

What is a Sant going to tell me about problems I may have if he has never experienced the love of another woman?

All our Guru's were married (bar one, because he was a child).

People confuse this perduit of Celibacy with Kaam....but Kaam is different. Kaam is an obsession with sex. Normal sexual intercourse is just about procreating or expressing your love for an individual. Go d has created with these instincts, it is when we get OBSESSED we go against Gods will and become animal like, not because we love someone or we have sexual intercourse with someone we love.

Sorry Don't Agree, but I can see where you are coming from.

ਇਕਿ ਬਿੰਦੁ ਜਤਨ ਕਰਿ ਰਾਖਦੇ ਸੇ ਜਤੀ ਕਹਾਵਹਿ ॥

इकि बिंदु जतन करि राखदे से जती कहावहि ॥

ik bind jatan kar raakh-day say jatee kahaaveh.

Some control their sexual energy, and are known as celibates.

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦ ਨ ਛੂਟਹੀ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਆਵਹਿ ਜਾਵਹਿ ॥੬॥

बिनु गुर सबद न छूटही भ्रमि आवहि जावहि ॥६॥

bin gur sabad na chhoothee bharam aavahi jaaveh. ||6||

But without the Guru's Word, they are not saved, and they wander in reincarnation. ||6||

ਇਕਿ ਗਿਰਹੀ ਸੇਵਕ ਸਾਧਿਕਾ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਲਾਗੇ ॥

इकि गिरही सेवक साधिका गुरमती लागे ॥

ik girhee sayvak saaDhikaa gurmatee laagay.

Some are householders, servants, and seekers, attached to the Guru's Teachings.

ਨਾਮੁ ਦਾਨੁ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜੁ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਸੁ ਜਾਗੇ ॥੭॥

नामु दानु इसनानु द्रिड़ु हरि भगति सु जागे ॥७॥

naam daan isnaan darirh har bhagat so jaagay. ||7||

They hold fast to the Naam, to charity, to cleansing and purification; they remain awake in devotion to the Lord. ||7||

Best Wishes

[Bane]

The shabad quoted above could be interpreted as people who take false spiritual pride in being celibates, they are more obsessed by the fact "look at me i am a celibate, i am great" Not a condemnation of celibacy as a chosen path. Just being celibate ain't going to save you.

Listen, when you feel the bliss of naam, when all you want to do is be with him, be in rememberance of him, dedicate your head to him. Then physical sexual urges do not hold the same attraction as before, as a new level of bliss, is attained. Granted, that this happens at different stages at a persons life, if at all, few are granted this gift from him in youth, but in youth you must prepare to receive it later. How can we judge reasons for a person wanting to be celibate, he may be full of vismaad, physical bliss may not appeal to him OR he may be putting on a show or be a celibate due to psychogical neuroses. Who are we to judge, each person secretly knows what he does and why, a person will reap what he sows chitragupta writes down everything.

[Guest]

great post bane ji.

[randip singh]

The shabad quoted above could be interpreted as people who take false spiritual pride in being celibates, they are more obsessed by the fact "look at me i am a celibate, i am great" Not a condemnation of celibacy as a chosen path. Just being celibate ain't going to save you.

Listen, when you feel the bliss of naam, when all you want to do is be with him, be in rememberance of him, dedicate your head to him. Then physical sexual urges do not hold the same attraction as before, as a new level of bliss, is attained. Granted, that this happens at different stages at a persons life, if at all, few are granted this gift from him in youth, but in youth you must prepare to receive it later. How can we judge reasons for a person wanting to be celibate, he may be full of vismaad, physical bliss may not appeal to him OR he may be putting on a show or be a celibate due to psychogical neuroses. Who are we to judge, each person secretly knows what he does and why, a person will reap what he sows chitragupta writes down everything.

Was not Guru Teg Bahadhur well into his 40's before Guru Gobind Singh ji was conceived?

Yes I understand your point that Sikhism doesn't reject celibacy....maybe I should have been clearer..........but Guru Nanak Dev ji has prescribed the life of a householder for Sikhs. It is a life where we live and face up to everyday things....not withdraw from them. Its a question of whether you live inspite or despite of things........I know which path I am choosing.......

The premise of this post is that somehow celibacy will give you a shortcut to spirituality.....Guruji says thats not true........so again I do not agree that Celibacy is the path for a Sikh.

It maybe the path for an Udasi, or Nirmala type....but not a Sant-Siphahi....who lives in life, meets life challenges and yet still walks a spiritual path.

PS

In anycase there are schools of thought that say you should use sexual energy to enhance the experience with God....aybe the two schools of thought should fight it out :

http://www.maitreya-edu.org/teachings/sex.php

Regards

[wahegurubol]

Reading the article it seems, the authors goal is celibacy and he sees celibacy as one of the required step-stones to meeting almighty. I have read that full book "Brahmacharya" by Sivanadadlshq... ...they condemn marriage and promote thepath of celibacy as higher to that of marriage.

Well as for me, We should not do adultery and we can have sex with our wife only to procreate. The path of marriage is higher because it goes by the WILL OF GOD. God created man and woman. Man is half of Woman and Woman half of Man. In grihst jeevan almighty can be met more quickly.

[tSingh]

If we look to animals, then surely they also live by the 'will of god'. Bonobo monkeys (our closest ape relatives) use sex as a tool for solving social conflict, and they have both heterosexual and homosexual relationships. Are both these features not also the 'will of god', or do you feel they have the psycological autonomy to decide to be 'little perverts'?

[wahegurubol]

well i dont know about bonobo monkeys all that Gurbani says is that one must practice sex within grihst lifestyle

[tSingh]

No it doesn't. It uses the metaphor of sexual union to convey mystical unity. It doesn't provide explicit codes on sexual behaviour, that comes up in the rehatnamay none of which mentions any context other than grihasth, and none of which I'd describe as being 'gurbani'.

I was asking you about your notion of the 'will of god' as you call it. Explain.

[wahegurubol]

well I had met one gursikh at the time when i myself didnt want to marry and follow a grihst life.

He said God created opposite sexes... men and women.... and they both must unite ! and thats God's creation. If we go against marriage we are just defying His creation. Ofcourse a celibate can also reach akal purakh, but it will be very HARD in that way, but in grihst life you can reach quicker ! That is allthat Imeant by will of God.

As for animals running around and screwing each other .. I dontknow, I dont care and dont even would like to know. Its all God's mysterious lila ! which is beyond ourunderstanding

[tSingh]

With the greatest respect, i think you need to push your thinking a bit. On this issue of sexual morality you state someone else's opinion as your own, but then shy away from really engaging with it with the 'God's lila' answer.

Surely God also created malarial mosquitos too. Its natural for them to kill people. Thats what God made them for...so why would you want to stop them killing your family with mosquito nets or anti-malarial drugs?

I'm sure you wouldn't like to know about the animals 'screwing each other'. The problem with it if you think about it rather than being so flippant is to recognise that if there is a 'will' of God that wants a purely compatible biological function for sex organs, and that any other use beyond procreation is 'deviance' from that will...then as I said...your bonobos have to be little deviants too. Otherwise the will of god stands in question. Either the will is other than what you say it is, or bonobos have the intellectual free will to choose to go beyond their natural instincts and become 'deviants'. In otherwords, put your money where your mouth is...do you believe there is a will of god or do you believe its a lila of which we can know nothing, as you put it?

[Xylitol]

Could someone (who actually knows) please educate us further on the maryada for those following grihast jeevan as well as the maryada for bihingams?

btw, W Bol, all of the original punj pyare were bihangam.

[wahegurubol]

tsingh, the opinion of the person who i posted had done 4 years night seva at Harmandar Saab and is of very high great avastha.

What exactly are you trying to imply with the monkey example that sex outside marriage or before marriage is okay in sikhi ???

Sikhi is a path for householders.

[Matheen]

Humans have the ability to control kaam. It's one of the things that differentiates us from animals.

Gurbani does tell us that the Ghrist marg is highly regarded but it isn't the ONLY path for a Sikh. Many Mahapursh are not married.

[Niranjana]

That's fine Matheen, however Karamjeet, like other similar "Sikh 20 year old adults" who obviously are not married (let alone having ever had a relationship with a member of the opposite sex, save perhaps for the Bhaji-Bhenji club during the University Sikh Society Samosa party) seems to think its within his ability to advise married Sikh couples about their sex lives.

[JustME]

lol..........common sense normally sorts this out...........every one is unique........everyone is made with their karams/avgun/nirguns etc.......the real rehit is of your consiousness.........listen to your soul.......it will tell you when is enough...........what is right for You.........may not be right for every/anyone else............learn to listen to your inner voice...........that is your soul.........the REAL you teling you what you need............the rest just slips away then...........dont overcomplicate things...............

With knowledge the need for mental clarity is even greater...............without it...............weel thats like a blind man looking for a light switch...........

[SURYADEV]

Bhaji-Bhenji club during the University Sikh Society Samosa party

LOL, so true. then once you graduate and get a job you go and marry your Bhaji or Bhenji;)

[Guest God]

On 5/10/2006 at 1:05 AM, jathedar said:

 

Why I made a human? 

Why only one can hold children?

Man is the image of God and women is for worshipping him

Gifting a woman a child in return so that she can represent her love and raise him up to be like his dad.

 

i think hollywood actors have more ojas than some oily pehalwan in india , please no offense its mostly true. beauty comes from humility and love not from holding semen in your body. also what should women be holding? do you agree in that terms that women is inferior to men physically, same like saadu's believe?