Jump to content

The Role of Celibacy in the Spiritual Life


karmjeet

Recommended Posts

Karamjit singh,

just one serious question:

You think mahapursh like- Sant baba gurbachan singh ji bhindranvaley, Sant baba attar singh ji reru sahib who were in gristh jeevan had any less bhakti than mahapursh who were not in gristh jevan - celibates ????

well that's a very good question .

but first tell me that how do u know that they( in gristhi jeevan ) had any bhog bilas ?

only GOD knows ...

" Brahmgyani ki gat brahmgyani jaane "

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well that's a very good question .

but first tell me that how do u know that they( in gristhi jeevan ) had any bhog bilas ?

only GOD knows ...

" Brahmgyani ki gat brahmgyani jaane "

singh come on yaar, semen is a seed for creation....it's natural.. it's not sceince and you know it !!!!!!!!!

yes there might be alternative way ie- dristhi bhog bilas (sex by looking at the partners eyes) but I AM IN NO POSITION OR READY TO SAY- BHOG BILAS(sex) WITH LOVE BETWEEN MALE AND FEMALE IS TABOO OR IT'S EFFECT YOUR SPIRITUALITY.

I think we should take it easy...because individual spirituality marg is only individual spirituality marg..there are no certain rules...only rule is "Moderation" in spirituality...whatever works for you might not works for others.. that's why you got celibates gurmukhs also polygamous gurmukhs who had more than one wife at the same time in SIKHI !!!!!!! ie- baba deep singh ji shahed - celibate and bhai mani singh ji (polgaymous)!!!!!!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

chalo shado veer ji , ki pya inna gallan vich .

jo Guru sahib ne furmaan kita hai , uste amal kariye . eh gallan taan kadi mukniaan hi nahi , age di age turi javegi .

aapaan chup kar ke naam japiye , kirat di kamai kariye , sat sangat vich jaayiye , aape guru sahib sumat denge .

par ik mainu sikhya mili hai ke har kise de apne apne vichar hun . jo apne kol hai usnoo apne andar sambal ke rakhna chahida hai . koi kise di gal nahi manda . is karke chup karke apna kum kari chaliye , guru ji bhali karnge

is moorakh haramkhor gunahgaar loon harami bande noo maaf karna

wjkk wjkf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

chalo shado veer ji , ki pya inna gallan vich .

jo Guru sahib ne furmaan kita hai , uste amal kariye . eh gallan taan kadi mukniaan hi nahi , age di age turi javegi .

aapaan chup kar ke naam japiye , kirat di kamai kariye , sat sangat vich jaayiye , aape guru sahib sumat denge .

par ik mainu sikhya mili hai ke har kise de apne apne vichar hun . jo apne kol hai usnoo apne andar sambal ke rakhna chahida hai . koi kise di gal nahi manda . is karke chup karke apna kum kari chaliye , guru ji bhali karnge

is moorakh haramkhor gunahgaar loon harami bande noo maaf karna

wjkk wjkf

i appolize for any offense cause veer ji...you are more than welcome to share your views but you as you know this is discussion forum ..we need to discuss things openly with pyaar ....even disagreements needs to be done in sikh manner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i appolize for any offense cause veer ji...you are more than welcome to share your views but you as you know this is discussion forum ..we need to discuss things openly with pyaar ....even disagreements needs to be done in sikh manner.

koi gal nahi ji! its ok yaar!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whatever karmjeet post any article you please but don't tell me that applies to everyone, you want to be celibate then thats your thing. I would like to post some articles of how spiritual having sex can be.

just give me ONE and only ONe reference from Gurbani or Dasam Granth or any gurmat granth which supports ur point that sex can be divine ! ( don't mention references from any stupid shastars or anti gurmat granths)

if there is something from gurmat , i promise i will believe u that sex can be divine .

becus the thing is we don't want people coming here and being misguided . we have to follow gurmat not manmat .

so lets see if u can get one reference .

and one thing don't mention that analogy of relationship with man and woman from gurbani . that's the milap pf atmas between manukh and parmatma . that's not sex .

i m not saying that u r wrong . but prove that u r not wrong by giving one single reference from gurmat .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dude, sex is one of the highest expression of love a man and wife can experience. There are many other gurbani tuks which would probably maybe you blush , anyways I don't gotta prove shh to you, look it up yourself.

just give me ONE and only ONe reference from Gurbani or Dasam Granth or any gurmat granth which supports ur point that sex can be divine ! ( don't mention references from any stupid shastars or anti gurmat granths)

if there is something from gurmat , i promise i will believe u that sex can be divine .

becus the thing is we don't want people coming here and being misguided . we have to follow gurmat not manmat .

so lets see if u can get one reference .

and one thing don't mention that analogy of relationship with man and woman from gurbani . that's the milap pf atmas between manukh and parmatma . that's not sex .

i m not saying that u r wrong . but prove that u r not wrong by giving one single reference from gurmat .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dude, sex is one of the highest expression of love a man and wife can experience. In Bani does it not express ectasy between man and God with "come to my bed" and there are many other gurbani tuks which would probably maybe you blush , anyways I don't gotta prove shh to you. you know the truth yourself.

i agree that sex is one of the highest expression of love a man and wife can experience.

but not between a manukh and a parmatma .

gurbani talks about the milap between atma and parmatma not between sareers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HeyDudesWassup wrote:

so what would you say sex is? No Sikh Mahapursh has ever described sex as "dirty or shameful experience".

When I recently went to India, I was talking to a Sant who came to the local Gurdwara to do Katha. He described sex as “Ganda Kamâ€. Even a Nihang I talked to described it similarly along the lines. Not that I want to seem too wise… but how the heck is it ‘divine’ when it is a physical act? It seems like the hippie culture of the 60’s has made sex and drugs into ‘divine’ experiences. We can still feels the effects of the Hippie culture on this forum it seems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a good thread on Sikhnet.com about this topic:

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....2B!OpenDocument

To me this is a no brainer. Sex is a natural device for a species to continue it's existence. This is the scientific reason for sex, but it does not end there. Sikhi and many other religions promote sex between married couples. Why? This minimizes chances for sexually transmitted diseases as well as strengthens the bond between a couple if they are the only sex partners each has had. Sharing such an intimate thing between to lovers strengthens their lifelong bond with each other. They both not only share their bodies, they share their hearts and souls. This spiritual pleasure mutes the physical pleasure tenfold.

I don't think the Gurus and sikhi promote sex solely for the purpose of having children. That is too me very limiting. Sikhs are not only to be spiritual humans but also pragmatic which is why the Guru's supported the concept of family and community and rejected ascetism(renouncing wordly ways).

There is nothing wrong with sex between to two people who are committed to one another. They should have it as often and as much as they like. That's what it is there for. If it were for only one thing it would not give the amount of pleasure it does. It is a gift from the almighty and should be treated as such. Anything less is an insult to Waheguru's design. We were given the breath of life to bring joy and bliss to our lives not to limit it and promote guilt over those things that bring us pleasure. It is only when such things are abused that they become Kaam, or other vices.

When one betrays another through extramarital sex, or when one is sexually abused. This is kaam. Not consentual relations between marriage partners.

Sex(between two committed individuals) = pleasure = joy = good

Peace

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HeyDudesWassup wrote:

When I recently went to India, I was talking to a Sant who came to the local Gurdwara to do Katha. He described sex as “Ganda Kamâ€. Even a Nihang I talked to described it similarly along the lines. Not that I want to seem too wise… but how the heck is it ‘divine’ when it is a physical act? It seems like the hippie culture of the 60’s has made sex and drugs into ‘divine’ experiences. We can still feels the effects of the Hippie culture on this forum it seems.

true . physical is not spiritual . atma and sareer are different .

main sareer nahi atma hoon ........sat chit anand saroop......that's wt baba ishar singh ji rare sahib wale used to say ( if i m not wrong )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a good thread on Sikhnet.com about this topic:

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....2B!OpenDocument

To me this is a no brainer. Sex is a natural device for a species to continue it's existence. This is the scientific reason for sex, but it does not end there. Sikhi and many other religions promote sex between married couples. Why? This minimizes chances for sexually transmitted diseases as well as strengthens the bond between a couple if they are the only sex partners each has had. Sharing such an intimate thing between to lovers strengthens their lifelong bond with each other. They both not only share their bodies, they share their hearts and souls. This spiritual pleasure mutes the physical pleasure tenfold.

I don't think the Gurus and sikhi promote sex solely for the purpose of having children. That is too me very limiting. Sikhs are not only to be spiritual humans but also pragmatic which is why the Guru's supported the concept of family and community and rejected ascetism(renouncing wordly ways).

There is nothing wrong with sex between to two people who are committed to one another. They should have it as often and as much as they like. That's what it is there for. If it were for only one thing it would not give the amount of pleasure it does. It is a gift from the almighty and should be treated as such. Anything less is an insult to Waheguru's design. We were given the breath of life to bring joy and bliss to our lives not to limit it and promote guilt over those things that bring us pleasure. It is only when such things are abused that they become Kaam, or other vices.

When one betrays another through extramarital sex, or when one is sexually abused. This is kaam. Not consentual relations between marriage partners.

Sex(between two committed individuals) = pleasure = joy = good

Peace

well this is your view . i respect that . but when u happen to meet a mahapurakh ask them wt is wrong and wt is right . u will get the same answer as singh47 got .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your physical body is connected to your spirit purely, each cell knows exactly what it needs and goes about conducting its business without your input. Who is behind it all conducting all these processes of metabolism?The body is a pharmaceutical factory and produce whatever is needed, the only thing that gets in the way is the mind. To me physical is connected spiritual but mind is not necessarily spiritual. The body is the vehicle for the observer (the spirit).

Anyways I've been listenign to too much Deepak Chopra.

true . physical is not spiritual . atma and sareer are different .

main sareer nahi atma hoon ........sat chit anand saroop......that's wt baba ishar singh ji rare sahib wale used to say ( if i m not wrong )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't need to consult with Sants from india or where ever about what their thoughts are on a particular subject, I will consult with the Sant inside me. No Mahapurkh will give anything to you in black and white, life is not linear. God is experiencing itself through us and if you think there is only black and white then the thing called life would have ended long time ago. The universe is expanding with each thought, thats how life continues, thats how summoning of the life force continues without that we would all cease to be. Anyways live your life how you want, find YOUR own truth but that doesn't mean its the truth of others. My opinion.

well this is your view . i respect that . but when u happen to meet a mahapurakh ask them wt is wrong and wt is right . u will get the same answer as singh47 got .
Link to comment
Share on other sites

agree that sex is one of the highest expression of love a man and wife can experience.

but not between a manukh and a parmatma .

gurbani talks about the milap between atma and parmatma not between sareers.

This is our dieeb dristhi(our vision).. dristhi of manmukhs.

However, dristhi of bhramgyani/mahapursh is such that he/she sees god in everything, praticle.. so how can you say when mahapurkh is doing bhog bilas with his sirimati it's lustful expereince not a DIVINE EXPEREINCE ???.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 10 years later...

 

 

totally agreed !

Our Dharam is only actions of love and nothing else. The khandeyon tikhi waalon nikki raah is of maintaining the prescribed role while being immersed in primal being. I.e. playing the role of man while maintaining the understanding the truth of aatma and param-atma. It is bachitr naatak...like a child's play.

The expansion is not only nature but also the command of Akaal purakh. Woman was made for the man...there's no point of man abstaining from her, rather he is to learn and practice compassion from home.

The one who thinks that to remain free of lust he must remain celibate is actually weak and afraid. 

While the one aware of gurmat sees Akaal purakh in wife...aapay hove cholda aapay sej bhataar....

He expands through us...why should we refrain ourselves from his gifts instead he wants us to do so. 

Our code of conduct requires us to remain balanced at all times I.e. sehaj savbhav...eat only that which is bare minimum requirement, know thw difference between requirement and lust/hunger. The one walking the middle path is the one walking the path which is khandeyon tikha waalon nikka. The one refrainiñg from it is the one who is simply refusing to walk it. But he may run from facing the temptations,  soonee or later he would have to take the test of purity.

Most Sikhs dislike the mention of it buteven prophet Muhammad suggeated the wxact same thing..he suggested that man must walk the middle path(keeping kaaya kuaari while remaining in grahisth), even in Muslims they have this notion of the path to heaven being sharper than a sword and smaller than a hair strand.

Ones strength is not known in refraining from facing the challenges rather facing and winning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

 

 

same bhog bilas in "MODERATION" might be Divine EXperience it's just a different way of looking at it...that's all.
 

 

Sometimes people tell me that they are spiritual b/c they take classes on physical westernized style yoga. They feel the anand from it and think of that as spiritual, but the same anand can be had from going for a long run. It’s really just the hormones in the body being released that people mistake as spiritual. And yeah, maybe two people feel a deeper connection from it, but that doesn’t mean you get kamai from it…

 

Western people love the idea of trying to spiritualize sex, but it cannot be done! It’s totally a worldly, dhaniabi thing. There’s nothing wrong with it, it’s not morally dirty between spouses and it continues the species, but it’s ultimately worldly and does prevent spiritual advancement beyond a certain point.

 

This is why all bhagats who are married are eventually told by their spiritual advisors to end all practice of bhog after some point in time. Usually after they have kids.

 

Few religions have actually tried to use sex to advance themselves. Some sects of Buddhism did allow it but the idea was that to actually use it properly, both people had to have fantastically good karma and do it properly. Then sex actually can be used for spiritual advancement, and only when done correctly. But only for a very limited period of time. It’s actually a very very low avastha thing and other methods are so much faster, better, and easier. Complete tiag of kaam is necessary to reach the first major low level avastha, so it wouldn’t really get you far. That is why our Gurus just decided to ignore these low level things, just like they ignored so many other low level spiritual practices.

 

The dalai lama was asked about this and he said the same kind of thing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First of all i just wanted to be quite frank..i am not there yet at this stage where i can see or experience bhog as divine..i have tried but failed many many times as one have to fully abided in  source-absolute of all things first, recognized and realized it then one operates from there then only one can be engaged yet totally de-attached in sex- engaged being in expression of divine yet de-attached not confined in the expression but stay as their real self- source .. 

When it comes to pristine gurmat view on this sex, we have to bring non dual frank references on bhog (all wordly things related to body five senses including sex) in gurbani and explore deep layers of gurmat. I don't think bhog bilas after marriage is discouraged in gurbani as whole, like you would see in other indic spiritual orders-self loathing traditions like- adi sankara initial view on maya, vedant view on maya. Most conceptual vedantis- acknowledge and totally beleive- The world is illusion, bhraman alone is real but totally ignore sankara last word- world is bhraman but off course they cannot relate to last word as it has to be felt and realized. 

In absolute reality, there is no sin being sex after marriage as PURE LIVE, ETERNAL, ALIVE IKOANKAR IS ONLY AND ONLY ONE expressing itself, enjoying itself via its creation. You, me and everyone is part of it. Whole ocean is in drop, drop is in the ocean.

Only it becomes sin, when act binds us or we identify ourselves with the act thats all as we get attached with it with sense of doership (I-ego) and our five senses, with separation there is karma, reincarnation, endless samsara-suffering-hell, reincarnation.

Make no mistakes its very slippery slope, its like walking on thin ICE until full realization.

In marriage, sexual intercourse for enlightened pure god- its not matter of act but rather matter of pure cognitive enlightened perception pure realization of Ikoankar.
 
Here sri guru gobind singh ji is talking about things which may even seem to some very controversial just by hearing the name, declaring there is no duality as such at all- its all god, all in god, god in all:
 
In gurbani, at deeper stages, there is no duality left as such, vaheguroo is taking both roles and himself playing in his play:
 
Namo Jog Jogi || Namo Bhog Bhogi ||
 
Jogi Andar Jogia Tu Bhogi Andar Bhogia ||
 
Tap Mein Tapasvi Grihast Mein Bhogi ||
 
ਅਖਿਲ ਜੋਗੇ ॥ ਅਚਲ ਭੋਗੇ ॥੭੪॥
अखिल जोगे ॥ अचल भोगे ॥७४॥
Thou art united with all, Thou art their permanent Enjoyer.74.
 
 
ਕਹੂੰ ਗੀਤ ਕੇ ਗਵੱਯਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਨ ਕੇ ਬਜੱਯਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਤ ਕੇ ਨਚੱਯਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਨਰ ਕੋ ਅਕਾਰ ਹੋ ॥
कहूं गीत के गव्या कहूं बेन के बज्या कहूं न्रित के नच्या कहूं नर को अकार हो ॥
O Lord! Somewhere Thou art singer of song somewhere Thou art player of flute, somewhere Thou art a dancer and somewhere in the form of a man.
 
ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਦ ਬਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਕੋਕ ਕੀ ਕਹਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਰਾਜਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਰਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਨਾਰ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਹੋ ॥
कहूं बेद बानी कहूं कोक की कहानी कहूं राजा कहूं रानी कहूं नार के प्रकार हो ॥
Somewhere Thou art the vedic hymns and somewhere the story of the elucidator of the mystery of love; somewhere Thou art Thyself the king, the queen and also various types of woman.
 
ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਨ ਕੇ ਬਜਯਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਧੇਨ ਕੇ ਚਰਯਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਲਾਖਨ ਲਵਯਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਕੁਮਾਰ ਹੋ ॥
कहूं बेन के बजया कहूं धेन के चरया कहूं लाखन लवया कहूं सुंदर कुमार हो ॥
Somewhere Thou art the player of flute, somewhere the grazier of cows and somewhere Thou art the beautiful youth, enticer of lakhs (of lovely maids.)
 
ਸੁਧਤਾ ਕੀ ਸਾਨ ਹੋ ਕਿ ਸੰਤਨ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਹੋ ਕਿ ਦਾਤਾ ਮਹਾ ਦਾਨ ਹੋ ਕਿ ਨ੍ਰਿਦੋਖੀ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਹੋ ॥੮॥੧੮॥
सुधता की सान हो कि संतन के प्रान हो कि दाता महा दान हो कि न्रिदोखी निरंकार हो ॥८॥१८॥
Somewhere Thou art the splendour of Purity, the life of the saints, the Donor of great charities and the immaculate Formless Lord. 8.18
 
ਕਹੂੰ ਗੀਤ ਕੇ ਗਵੱਯਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਨ ਕੇ ਬਜੱਯਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਨ੍ਰਿਤ ਕੇ ਨਚੱਯਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਨਰ ਕੋ ਅਕਾਰ ਹੋ ॥
कहूं गीत के गव्या कहूं बेन के बज्या कहूं न्रित के नच्या कहूं नर को अकार हो ॥
O Lord! Somewhere Thou art singer of song somewhere Thou art player of flute, somewhere Thou art a dancer and somewhere in the form of a man.
 
ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਦ ਬਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਕੋਕ ਕੀ ਕਹਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਰਾਜਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਰਾਨੀ ਕਹੂੰ ਨਾਰ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਹੋ ॥
कहूं बेद बानी कहूं कोक की कहानी कहूं राजा कहूं रानी कहूं नार के प्रकार हो ॥
Somewhere Thou art the vedic hymns and somewhere the story of the elucidator of the mystery of love; somewhere Thou art Thyself the king, the queen and also various types of woman.
 
ਕਹੂੰ ਬੇਨ ਕੇ ਬਜਯਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਧੇਨ ਕੇ ਚਰਯਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਲਾਖਨ ਲਵਯਾ ਕਹੂੰ ਸੁੰਦਰ ਕੁਮਾਰ ਹੋ ॥
कहूं बेन के बजया कहूं धेन के चरया कहूं लाखन लवया कहूं सुंदर कुमार हो ॥
Somewhere Thou art the player of flute, somewhere the grazier of cows and somewhere Thou art the beautiful youth, enticer of lakhs (of lovely maids.)
 
ਸੁਧਤਾ ਕੀ ਸਾਨ ਹੋ ਕਿ ਸੰਤਨ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਹੋ ਕਿ ਦਾਤਾ ਮਹਾ ਦਾਨ ਹੋ ਕਿ ਨ੍ਰਿਦੋਖੀ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਹੋ ॥੮॥੧੮॥
सुधता की सान हो कि संतन के प्रान हो कि दाता महा दान हो कि न्रिदोखी निरंकार हो ॥८॥१८॥
Somewhere Thou art the splendour of Purity, the life of the saints, the Donor of great charities and the immaculate Formless Lord. 8.18
 
So according to my understanding, sex is discouraged after marriage for seekers like us as it has higher tendency to attach everyone to it. However, Gurmukh life or state of mind is not really of running away from these things rather being truly in -gurmukh maya vich udasi - engaged yet de-attached, just like one is engaged when one is driving / or eating food yet its detached from it. Western idea of sex is not compatible with sikh view on sex. Here is interesting article on sex and sikhism by sardar kapur singh :
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

wow that was 10 years ago when I first started this topic , time moves by so fast. 

I used to have such clear cut views on things, now it is all a fog of confusion in brain.

Now I believe that there are no white and black answers in life, it is all about holding a viewpoint and defending it when engaging in a discussion. 

What are my views about sex now ? I guess that is what Gristhi Jeevan essentially is for. A person can engage according to his avastha, atleast it will prevent him from mating outside. It is better to make 100x more love to own wife than mating with a single lady outside of marriage. Although everyone should strive for moderation, but personally if one cannot control then it is nothing to be guilty about.  This is my opinion, and might even be manmat. lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...