Guest SAdmin Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Also, I think I should add Vedanta link, so if anyone wants to read on this philosophy they can. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedanta and http://www.prosperityplace.com/vedanta.html Singh47 Ji, Why do you think Jatehdar "Vedanti" uses Vedanti as his last name? Do you know if this is his village/clan name? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Black Goddess, how am I 'narrow minded'? I happen to be a very open minded person, but just not open at the expense of the Maryadha. The Maryadha is more important than you or me, and to uphold it is our duty. If you want to learn about Vedanta, Vaishnavism then by all means go ahead, but just not at the Gurdwara where we are supposed to learn Gurmat/Gursikhi. As I have mentioned earlier in this thread that I don’t make the rules, but I certainly follow them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheena Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Black Goddess, how am I 'narrow minded'? I happen to be a very open minded person, but just not open at the expense of the Maryadha. The Maryadha is more important than you or me, and to uphold it is our duty. If you want to learn about Vedanta, Vaishnavism then by all means go ahead, but just not at the Gurdwara where we are supposed to learn Gurmat/Gursikhi. As I have mentioned earlier in this thread that I don’t make the rules, but I certainly follow them. Veer ji who set up this Maryada that only 'Gursikhs' (Amritdharis) are allowed to do parchaar in Gurudwaras? Im curious has it always been this way? If i remember correctly was it not Sai Mian Meer ji who was a Muslim Saint that set the foundation of the Gurudwara. Why is it that this Maryada says that we should not allow a Man of God (assuming what he has to say is divine) to speak in the Gurudwaras whos foundation was set by a non-Gursikh(amritdhari)? If i remember correctly was it not Guru Gobind Singh ji who had 52 Poet of different religion in his darbaar who would recite poets? Were they all Sikh (Amritdhari)? If they can be given time to speak in the presence of the 10th master then why can't this Swami ji? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Veer ji who set up this Maryada that only 'Gursikhs' (Amritdharis) are allowed to do parchaar in Gurudwaras? Im curious has it always been this way? If i remember correctly was it not Sai Mian Meer ji who was a Muslim Saint that set the foundation of the Gurudwara. Why is it that this Maryada says that we should not allow a Man of God (assuming what he has to say is divine) to speak in the Gurudwaras whos foundation was set by a non-Gursikh(amritdhari)? If i remember correctly was it not Guru Gobind Singh ji who had 52 Poet of different religion in his darbaar who would recite poets? Were they all Sikh (Amritdhari)? If they can be given time to speak in the presence of the 10th master then why can't this Swami ji? very interesting observations pheena ji...also i would like to add to your post that in puratan times- muslims(descendents from bhai mardana) and other's shardlu muslims used to kirtan in darbar sahib If may i take a shot at answering your queries ..here is my opnion- Loads of things were changed after 220 yrs of creation of khalsa panth. Tat Khalsa/SGPC/Singh Sabha had loads of good sikhs and loads of radical sikhs which made loads of changes - They were good(free gurdwara from curropt mahants, stopped idol worshipping) changes and bad changes (rejecting ragmalla , bhagata di bani, disowning dasam granth, forcing women to wear dastar, spread propaganda against saints, destroying gurmat sangeet, martial hertiage , changin mangals in siri guroo granth sahib ji). They can deny it all they want but they were heavily influenced by british (ferengi) forces..with the help of them- they killled loads of puratan akali nihangs... Obviously their kartuota(deeds) are not written in any sgpc approve books because of the power they have to shut people off but these kinda things you get to know when you talk older sikhs from nirmaley, taksali, nihang , seva panthi orders. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Veer ji who set up this Maryada that only 'Gursikhs' (Amritdharis) are allowed to do parchaar in Gurudwaras? Im curious has it always been this way? This Maryadha was created by Guru roop Khalsa Panth, and as far as I understand all major Sikh organizations follow and agree with this aspect of the rehet. “If i remember correctly was it not Sai Mian Meer ji who was a Muslim Saint that set the foundation of the Gurudwara. Why is it that this Maryada says that we should not allow a Man of God (assuming what he has to say is divine) to speak in the Gurudwaras whos foundation was set by a non-Gursikh(amritdhari)?†Pheena Jee, the first person to assert that Mian Mir Jee laid the foundation of Darbar Sahib was Giani Gian Singh Jee who I believe lived during the late 19th century. According to Suraj Parkash of Kavi Santokh Singh Jee, Guru Arjun Dev Jee himself laid the foundation of Darbar Sahib and Baba Budha Jee did the ardas for it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted July 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! I honestly wonder whether people actually listen to Gurbani! Singh 47, a really simple question...should a Sikh not listen to a vaishnav bhagat, like you say? If so, then you do not listen to bhagat bani I presume?! Bhagat Namdev was a huge vaishnav poet who worships in his bani both the formless waheguru and namely 'raja ram's very form, the same bhagat who explicitly states that Vaheguru took form as Narsinha. Then you have Surdas who wrote sur sagar which is one of the most famous devotional compositions on Krishna bhagti. Jaidev is included, the same who composed the wrote Gita Govinda on Krishna bhagvan. Sant Ramanand is included and you'd do well to find out about his achievements. Now if they are both in there, what does that tell you about the Gurus? a) that a bhagat is a bhagat that the nature of the form they worship is nothing but that satchitanand nirankar that Guru ji worships. Does it mean that the Gurus worshipped idols? No, but that they recognised a bhagat for a bhagat. So exactly WHOSE maryada are YOU following? It doesn't sound like the Guru's. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 TSingh, are you saying that Sikhs should worship Vishnu or his avtars? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 This ones for Singh47 and his ilk: http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=6564 Enjoy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHANBABANANAK Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 theres no point running u aint gona find god like dat, i.e there no shortcuts... god dwells within. Read bani... understand it.. and do ur simran and nitnem amrit wale. Amrit Shako Ji ! Waheguru and Moolmantar da abyass karo ji. Guru Nanak Dev Ji de photo nu tooof la ke charana tu door mathe te lou ji. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheena Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Pheena Jee, the first person to assert that Mian Mir Jee laid the foundation of Darbar Sahib was Giani Gian Singh Jee who I believe lived during the late 19th century. According to Suraj Parkash of Kavi Santokh Singh Jee, Guru Arjun Dev Jee himself laid the foundation of Darbar Sahib and Baba Budha Jee did the ardas for it. I have never heard of such a thing veer. Even Sant Singh ji Maskeen said it was sai mian mir ji. As far as i can remember it has always been accepted that it was Mian Mir ji, this is the first time im hearing that it was not. If we begin to delve into these theories then there is nothing for certain, all become uncertain truths, as does the maryada you follow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted July 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Gurfateh, Singh47, I know you don't like subtle things so perhaps I'll put it more simply. To paraphrase; you said; 'Don't listen to Swami Parmanand' - some said why? You said; 'Hes a vaishnav, and in sikhi you shouldn't listen to vaishnavs' I said 'A number of the bhagats were vaishnav including Bhagat Namdev and we daily listen to them, so you should listen to vaishnavs in sikhi if they are talking about satchitanand nirankar' Swami parmanand talks about satchitanand nirankar, you should listen to him as it will enrich your understanding. A person would have to be pretty stupid to deduce from this that; a) one should worship vishnu one should worship a murti My point in a nutshell... If you REALLY hold firm to your ill informed statement then you should not be a Sikh for you MUST therefore not listen to some of the bhagat bani. And if you're not listening to your Guru then... Hope that's clear enough to avoid any confusion! I don't mean any offense, just know some like to create confusion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 so what happened?? did anyone go?? took pictures?? Please post them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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