Black Goddess Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Er anyway, Suman I agree with one point you have made, it is very very rare to find a true Sant, but they do exist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chhinderpalsingh Posted October 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Everyone may have the right to have his own definition of sants. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stopsingh Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Everyone may have the right to have his own definition of sants. True but our Guru Ji have referred to their predecessor Guru and Bhagats as Sant. No one else was accorded this prefix. Our Guru Ji have clearly defined who they consider as Sant. Today "sant" a two a penny in Punjab, everyother day some new Makhan rises as a sant. Must be a seriously blessed area or ripe for commercial exploitation. I think the latter is true. Dera culture is growing in Punjab, we have so called sant giving their dirty kachera water to blind followers, we have others charged and imprisoned on rape charges (these were sant samaj members, if only a sant can recognise another sant then how come these perverted rapist pretenders were admitted to the sant samaj ??, could it be that the "sant" in the samaj do not have the ability to recognise other sant so everything they claim to be is a falsehood). They tell people they are only interested in spreading Sikhi and not in maya but are ready to kill each other over the vast estates attached to dera. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloco Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 whats your point? there have always been fake sants - there were even more during Guru Jis time. doesnt mean there arent real ones. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Har Naal Pyar Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 stopsingh the word sant was used byBhagat Kabir Ji I think so if so then who were they referring to? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stopsingh Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 stopsingh the word sant was used byBhagat Kabir Ji I think so if so then who were they referring to? There were Bhagats before Kabir Ji descended on this earth, so it would not be out of line for such a great Bhagat to recognise these Sant. mloco ji. Point being that the so called Sant Samaj who are meant to be made up of real Sant are not capable of recognising these CONVICTED perverted rapists and peadophiles. True Sant are meant to be able to recognise other Sant just as our Guru Ji recognised the Bhagats and their predecessor Guru Ji as Sant. These so called Sant do not have that ability so are they really Sant ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloco Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 my point is that jus coz you knew of a few people that arent sant doesnt mean that sants arent around. Sants stay gupt and wont comment on anyone unless challenged. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHANBABANANAK Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 okey dats enought lets stop critising... even if he is fake. If we know da truth just keep away. And make use of this time to practise simran. i know people dat just spend time critising and they cant even concentrate with naam for 5 seconds without other thoughts. those who meditate and have concentration on god dont have time to critise and gossip. but it is good to be aware. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Har Naal Pyar Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Stopsingh Bhagat Kabir Ji would be commenting on other sants but what if these are different to the ones that have their bani in Guru Granth Sahib JI, then? Do u get me? I mean different people call different ppl sants and so if there were sants at time of Bhagat Kabir Ji why not now? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x_suman_x Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 There are so many references in Gurbani by Guru Jee on Sants, how can they be talking about themselves when they are clearly referring to others, Suman, go read the whole of the Guru Granth Sahib and work on your own spirituality, all this debate is just a waste of time, it's not helping your karms or kamaee even 1%. u first need to focus on ur own spirituality and ur karms questioning things are the only way that you gain gian (knowledge) and by reading 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x_suman_x Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 ...N/A 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stopsingh Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 u first need to focus on ur own spirituality and ur karms questioning things are the only way that you gain gian (knowledge) and by reading True but some people have bad habbits like asking others for proof of xyz whereas they cannot substantiate anything they claim, so they accuse others of trying to attract attention and thinking the forum revolves around them just because they have bothered to show her ideas are unfounded. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Goddess Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 People who think they are dogs will assume I was talking about them, for the record it was a general remark, anyway each to his own. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stopsingh Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Stopsingh Bhagat Kabir Ji would be commenting on other sants but what if these are different to the ones that have their bani in Guru Granth Sahib JI, then? Do u get me? I mean different people call different ppl sants and so if there were sants at time of Bhagat Kabir Ji why not now? Just off the top of my head Baba Jaidev Ji lived in the 12th century Baba Sheik Farid Ji lived in 13th century. Baba Kabir Ji was born 70/80 years prior to Guru Nanak Dev Ji Baba Dhanna Ji in the 15th century. Not like now when there are hundreds of so called Sant all born in the 20th century. Our Guru Ji thmselves referred to these Bhagats as Sant. So our Guru Ji themselves set the standard and told us who the Sant were. If people think these Sant Samaj wale are up to the standard set by our Guru Ji then they only kidding themselves. Can you see a sant samaj wala sitting in boiling water or on a hotplate ? Far from it they would be phoning there ustaad in delhi to get out of it. Remember that so called Sant Fateh Singh who used to take fasts to death every other week ? Poor chap used to be so hungry after a day or so that he used to have big glasses of milk delivered to him in the evening. After 2 days he used to claim a break through had been made in delhi so he could give up his fast. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x_suman_x Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 ...............N/A 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Har Naal Pyar Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Stopsingh never heard of that sant, dont associate myself with such ppl lol But did Bhagat Kabir Ji meet these sants and if you are correct then he wouldnt have thought of anyone other than those whose bani we read to be a sant. if he considered anyone other than those whose bani in Guru Ji as sant then that sort of completely goes against ur arguemnt. I'm not saying there are not tooooooooooo many so called sants but thats not the point, the point is if there are genuine ones after Guru Gobind Singh Ji time. As Im posting, thought id quickly say congrats on the 3 Gurpurbs celebrated today (I guess the punjabi proper way is to say Vaddayiann?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Can you see a sant samaj wala sitting in boiling water or on a hotplate ? Far from it they would be phoning there ustaad in delhi to get out of it. Remember that so called Sant Fateh Singh who used to take fasts to death every other week ? Poor chap used to be so hungry after a day or so that he used to have big glasses of milk delivered to him in the evening. After 2 days he used to claim a break through had been made in delhi so he could give up his fast. stop singh, Sant samaj members are as follows: Baba Sabjit Singh Ji Bedi are the leader of the sant samaj (they are the 17th descendants of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji) other sants in it are Baba Hari Singh Ji Rahdhawae Walae Baba Jagjeet Singh Ji Harkhowalae Baba Sukhchen Singh Ji Dharampur Walae Baba Sewa Singh Ji Rampur Khera Walae Baba Baljeet Singh Ji Dadoo Sahib Walae Baba Thakur Singh Ji Damdami Taksal Baba Avtar Singh Ji Badni Kala Walae Baba Amar Singh Ji Barundi Walae Baba Darshan Singh Ji Dhakki Sahib Walae Baba Lakhbir Singh Ji Ratwara Sahib Walae Baba Hardev Singh Ji Lolowalae Baba Balwant Singh Ji Rara Sahib Walae Baba Teja Singh Ji Rara Sahib Baba Baljinder Singh Ji Rara Sahib the list goes on really. real sants would never use sant so on and so on to their name ..it's always shardlu call them with full respect (by their state of mind) which they deserve i find nothing wrong with it... Here is my solution to your problem. 1. Pick up a map and locate all the sant mahapursh i have mentioned. 2. Pick up your motor bike 3. start going to each sant mahapursh dera and ask them questions directly. Please be sensible when you ask questions..because this is not internet ..you might run into trouble by sevadars of the mahapursh... Here is another alternative way to find who is real sant or who is not if you got enuf juice... Have your gang ready...and announce in the pind...who is real the sant ? come out because i need to drink your "blood".......real humble sant will come if there will be any- ask you puttar you need to suck my blood..here is my full body...chop me into peaces by peaces..it's all for the sangata. I say you should do this instead of whinning on the internet..patta lag joo who is real or who is not in sant samaj???????? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stopsingh Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 stop singh, real sants would never use sant so on and so on to their name ..it's always shardlu call them with full respect (by their state of mind) which they deserve i find nothing wrong with it... Here is my solution to your problem. 1. Pick up a map and locate all the sant mahapursh i have mentioned. 2. Pick up your motor bike 3. start going to each sant mahapursh dera and ask them questions directly. Please be sensible when you ask questions..because this is not internet ..you might run into trouble by sevadars of the mahapursh... Here is another alternative way to find who is real sant or who is not if you got enuf juice... Have your gang ready...and announce in the pind...who is real the sant ? come out because i need to drink your "blood".......real humble sant will come if there will be any- ask you puttar you need to suck my blood..here is my full body...chop me into peaces by peaces..it's all for the sangata. I say you should do this instead of whinning on the internet..patta lag joo who is real or who is not in sant samaj???????? Seeing as you are so convinced about the Sant Samaj and think the sun shines out the sant samajists why dont you go do it instead of whinning on the internet when your self propogated theories on Sant in Sikhi are shattered. The FACT that perverted peadophiles and rapists are members of the Sant Samaj shows how real the "Sant" in it are. If there were real Sant in the Samaj dont you think with their divine powers they would be able recognise a rapist masqurading as a Sant ? >>Baba Sabjit Singh Ji Bedi are the leader of the sant samaj (they are the 17th descendants of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji) Whats that prove then ? There are many other descendants of Guru Nanak Dev Ji around Una. >>real sants would never use sant so on and so on to their name ..it's always shardlu call them with full respect (by their state of mind) which they deserve i find nothing wrong with it... Yes of cause they do not use Sant, thats why they have the Sant Samaj organisation. Thats why every other wall you see in Punjab has been flyposted with Sant NNNNNN Singh Brahmgiani posters. Thats why Ranjit Singh has a sign outside his dera with the word Sant before his name. Thats why Ranjit Singh allows t-series to use Sant as part of his name on his tapes, vcd and cds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stopsingh Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Stopsingh never heard of that sant, dont associate myself with such ppl lol But did Bhagat Kabir Ji meet these sants and if you are correct then he wouldnt have thought of anyone other than those whose bani we read to be a sant. if he considered anyone other than those whose bani in Guru Ji as sant then that sort of completely goes against ur arguemnt. I'm not saying there are not tooooooooooo many so called sants but thats not the point, the point is if there are genuine ones after Guru Gobind Singh Ji time. As Im posting, thought id quickly say congrats on the 3 Gurpurbs celebrated today (I guess the punjabi proper way is to say Vaddayiann?) Physical meetings do not really matter. Remember that many of the Bhagats whos bani is contained in our Guru Granth Sahib Ji were born a few centuries before our Guru Ji. But our Guru Ji still recognised them as Sant and included their bani in Guru Ji. Bhagat Kabir no doubt also had the ability to recognise Sant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Har Naal Pyar Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Therefore, there is no need for you to keep arguing that Guru Ji is referred to as the only sant Ji in Shabad Hazaare because that has no relevance to a debate on who a sant is because now you are admitting that Guru Ji are not the only sant. get me? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stopsingh Posted October 23, 2005 Report Share Posted October 23, 2005 Therefore, there is no need for you to keep arguing that Guru Ji is referred to as the only sant Ji in Shabad Hazaare because that has no relevance to a debate on who a sant is because now you are admitting that Guru Ji are not the only sant. get me? No I do not really get you. :roll: In Shabad Hazereh Guru Arjun Dev Ji clearly mentions Guru Ramdass Ji as Gur Sant. So Guru Arjun Dev Ji has clearly set the standard for who is a Sant. Does anyone seriosuly think that these dere wale Sant Samajis are equal to our Guru Ji ? I have never said that Guru Ji are the only Sant. The Bhagat whos bani is included in our Guru Granth Sahib Ji are also Sant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Har Naal Pyar Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 Oh looks like I need to be more clear then. But no I'm not saying the dera wallas are all sants but a rare few can be. I was saying that if Guru Ji are a sant and there were sants before Guru Ji then why can there not be any sants after Guru JI? Did people stop being able to reach such stage? Ok well sorry I havent got time to make it more clearer . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stopsingh Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 Oh looks like I need to be more clear then. But no I'm not saying the dera wallas are all sants but a rare few can be. I was saying that if Guru Ji are a sant and there were sants before Guru Ji then why can there not be any sants after Guru JI? Did people stop being able to reach such stage? Ok well sorry I havent got time to make it more clearer . OK thats more clear. Sure there can be Sant. But as the old saying goes only a Sant can recognise a Sant and seeing as these Sant Samaj wale accept rapists and peadophiles as members of their little gang it begs the question whether such people are Sant. If they were Sant they would recognise rapists for what they were and never accept them into their little cosy union. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Har Naal Pyar Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 lol I dont think the have their tea parties. OK I see ur point and I dont think or to be honest know whose what, I'm only a plain and simple human being so I cant judge. But I think that if one is a fake and one is real and the real sant says no that one is fake then who is going to believe him? Like does a real sant have the right to say no not him because they all bound to have a lot of support lol so its not for one to point a finger at another but better to get on with his paath or am I talking jibberish.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloco Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 a real sant wont really say anything about anyone else, unless directly asked by some close sangati. There are basically very very few Sants that are born Sants - Baba Nand Singh ji, St Isher Singh ji for example. But they leave behind a legacy of Mahapursh - basically a line of Mar Jeevan. They know through experience and anbhav what you need to do to reach their level. If you dont want their advice dont take it, but for those of us who do value their advice, your constant nindya is nothing more than hurtful. None of you have met them or listened to their kirtan/katha. All you see is 'omg he/she is jathedar/ni of w/e and sangat have started calling them sant, lyk, omg, they must be hypocrites/rapists/thieves.' You dont see that someone has been doin constant seva since they were children. Im not saying that there arent fake sants, but to say that all sant samaj are fake, refer to people as derawalas etc - this is nindia of people who have dedicated their lives to seva. You're throwing the baby out with the dirty water. We have our lines of thought and logic and you have yours, in no way do any of you have any right to say what Sikhi should be and what we should make it - it is manmat. You think the Gurus are not powerful enough to maintain true Sikhi? stopsingh - no real sant has ever claimed to be equal of Guru Sahib. If you want to see what sant is read Sukhmani Sahib, or do you have only selective acceptance of Gurbani, and believe only what supports your point of view. Yes, Guru Ram Das ji is referred to as Gur Sant. GUR Sant. Mahapursh are sevaks, sants are also sevaks, they are plain sant, not Gur Sant. Jin saas giraas na visrai, Har nama man mant. Dhan se saee Nanaka pooran saee Sant. this is ridiculous - admin lock the thread already 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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