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TO BLACK GODDESS

i no dat u believe in a lotta sants n all but i think that sants are very rare in this world..

i don't believe in sants, but sant sipahis.

during 1984 how many sants spoke out against the injustices and fought against it..

how many of them sacrificed their lives...

i don't know for definite but i don't think dat there were any apart from jarnail singh!!!!!!

PLEASE TRY TO THINK OUTSIDE OF YOUR LITTLE BOX!!!!!!

PLEASE TRY AND RESPECT MY OPINIONS BECAUSE I HAVE A RIGHT TO EXPRESS DIFFERENT OPINIONS TO YOU

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AND TO EVERY1 ELSE...

THAT'S WHY IT IS CALLED A FORUM"!!!!!!!!

ISN'T THAT WHAT SRI GURU TEGH BAHADUR JI DIED FOR..

SO THAT EVERY1 HAD A RIGHT TO FOLLOW AND EXPRESS THEIR BELIEFS, VIEWS AND THOUGHTS.

U OBVIOUSLY THINK THHAT THIS WAS A WORTHLESS SACRIFICE

FORGIVE ME IF I OFFEND U!!!!!!

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA

WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

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whos stopping you? you write what you beliee and people have replied what they believe. Thats why its called a forum. Or do you want only your opinion to be heard? You have to accept that there will be people with an opinion against yours.

people are against coz you make gross assertions - 'all sants are corrupt'

first you say you dont believe in sants then you say you think theyre rare. We know theyre rare no one said theyre not.

For the people who think sants dont exist, then who was Kabir Ji? Who were Dhroo and Prahlad? What do you think it means when Gurbani talks of Jeevan mukt. The Guru himself creates Bhramgiani - its not up to us.

Suman - when you say why did no one esle speak up? Sants are veparvah they dont fear anything - they all have their own duty - Sant Jarnail Singh Ji did his, the others did theirs.

"Jina saas ghiraas na visrai har nama man mant.

Dhan se saee Nanaka pooran soi sant."

PS writing in caps = shouting

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are you respecting the opinions of people using Gurbani to explain what a sant is when you say all sant are corrupt?

and black goddess has a right to believe whatever according to how she sees your posts. If you seem narrow minded to her then so be it.

to be honest a lot of the things you have said are assertions with no back up and as such are narrow minded. you dont seem to read the things people post but you get pedantic about little criticsms. This is a public forum - when you publicly state what you believe you open the door for retorts from all other opinions.

you said you came here to learn but you get offended at other peoples' criticism of you and then state your opinion as fact - that is what has annoyed everyone.

i don't believe in sants, but sant sipahis.

this is an oxymoron

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Suman, what I say to you face to face is different, please dont misquote me, see me tomorrow and Il clarify exactly what I meant. I really dont want to continue back and forth defending my opinions, as I know you personally I thought I would comment on this thread, it was obviously a mistake, take care.

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References given below still stands at this point unless there is any counter argument given....! :D Please provide objective response with references or this discussion will be locked.

Suman read this carefully..it will clear so many misconceptions on sants in general. It's about the article that exist on panthkhalsa - http://www.panthkhalsa.org/gurmat/gurmat.php#SANT

Distrubing usage of word sant.. you will see how your ideaology - oh there is no sant in this world is flawed.

i debunked this stupid article by grace of sant mandali and guru sahib... this article " disturbing misuse of word sant" by soo called akj panthic sevadars..here is my reply..i posted on sikhportal and email the author of that article:

1. Sant/Sadhu word is not only meant for Guru Sahiban. It was meant for anyone who has reached that state of mind according to bhai kahn singh nabha

sant%20defination%20from%20mahan%20kosh.JPG

Anyone who has control over senses -man indiraya ie- 5 senses (smell, touch, hear, taste sight)/ 5 vices- ego, lust, anger, attachment, greed is a saint/sant !!!!!!!!!! whether it's- bhai, gursikh, baba, prof, doctor, nurse !!!!!!!!

If you cannot accept this defination of bhai sahib kahn singh nabha then i m sorry but i cannot do anything else to make you understand.

In a nutshell- Bhai Kahn SIngh Nabha was highly highly qualified vidvan who was first and last person who wrote dictionary of gurbani known as "Mahan Kosh"... in other words- wrote meaning of each gurbani word by word.

For this mahan seva - he is widely respected for his works not only by puratan sampardha but by your SGPC, SINGH SABHA, TAT KHALSA, AKJ etc etc.

His Mahan Kosh (dictionary of siri guru granth sahib) can be found @

http://www.ik13.com/MahanKosh/Mahankosh.pdf

Sant/bhai/gurmukh/bhramgyani/sadhu/bhai/baba prefix are used interchangably..and has been used both

eternaly and externly in the context when refering to an "Naam Abhiyasi" individual.

2. If Sant word is referred to Guru Sahib .. therefore one entity and how come gurbani repeaditily indicidates sant and guru as two different state of mind. For example:

Bhagat Kabir Says :

Tirath Gaye Ek Phal, Sant mile phal char, Guru Mele Phal enek hai kahit kabir vichar ||

Going to pilgrame you get one phaul(fruit), meeting an saint - you get four phal(fruits),

but meeting an Guru you will be blessed with anek(infinite) phauls(fruits).

This tuk itself shreads this propaganda of sant word in gurbani refers to guru sahib.. and there are many more quotes from gurbani which proves guru and sant are two different state of minds...

In words of sant baba jagjit singh ji on this propaganda from his tape: !

So what's a point? No Real Sant never say call me sant. They love to use baba jarnail singh bhindranwaley as their propaganda..In his tape on Sant baba gurbachan singh ji's bhindranvwaley barsi.. He beautifully labels his predecessor as - Siriman 108 Sant Gyani Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindravwaley.

Perhaps Giani Gurditt Singh didn't do any research on bhai kahan singh nabha mohan kosh... I agree Sant word is widely abused by people but so as labels like bhai sahib and gyani/scholars ... so why target the words itself why not target the people who are fake people self proclaimed sants, gyani , bhai sahib, scholars??

If Bhai Randhir Singh Ji has said this then he looses crediblity too (no offense to his bhagti because in his same book he gives label of sant to baba jawala singh ji.

Sant Samaj is not a sant factory mind you.. Sant Samaj was founded through many great saints in the panth belong to different sampardha's orders created/blessed by guru sahiban (nirmaley, nihangs, taksal, udasi , sevapanthis).. what gave bhai randhir singh ji and his chelas "AUTHORITY" to criticise orders/knights of the panth which were created by Guru Sahib. It's not like akj represent Siri Akaal Takth Sahib anyway.

Read Sukhmani Sahib..you will see what authority individual state of mind has to completely deserve this title

Real Sant's never called themselves sants however if devootee's been through individual spiritual expereince in the sangat of these high enlightened saints...devootee's has a every right according to own sharda to label that holy person as sant/bhramgyani/mahaatma/mahapursh/tat vaida/tar kali pursh because from a devoote point of view- they completely deserve the title which they do if they don't admit is because of the "Humility"

Their relationship is same as bhai randhir singh ji's relationship towards his akj chelas.

they don't call themselves it's the devootes describe them as saints... which they fully deserve

Why not ask GOI politicans?? Sants are for everybody regardless of color, creed, race, religion. Loads of politicans came to sant jarnail singh bhindranwaley are they implying sant had malicious links with GOI"?

Now their query on how come there were no sants before 1900's ..it be very childish to think there were no sants before 1900's ...they were by god's grace were loads of sants right from the beginning to benefit human kind..however i agree with you, offically sant which is not a degree but state of mind title became more offical when "Cheif Khalsa Divan" with members like- Bhai Vir Singh Ji and other singhs from sgpc gave "Baba Attar Singh Ji Mustaneywaley" title of - Sirimoni Sant ..now at this point- only thing happened was that Sant title became more offical ..people have been using that title from beginning but in a different for example- so on and so baba ji has a sant avastha..only diffference after cheif khalsa divan gave this title to baba attar singh ji mustaneywaley that now shardlu's can use title- sant so on and so forth to show the respect and pay the full respect these naam abhyasi individual which mind you they fully deserve.

Yes it's been misused so is everything in sikhi..why they are soo hell bound on word sant?? I am sure heard of news where gyani/bhai molested a small child...do you see us like minded individual start internet morcha against label gyani/bhai ?

Don't Sing it bring the proof.. ..i can go ahead at say - Babar khalsa has major links with GOI to distort image of khalistan...but without proof?? does my claim looks credible... NO !!!!!!..

This article has some MAJOR crediblity issues

OVER AND OUT !

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