chatanga Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 Baba Jee didnt just repair a secred building. He repaired it to try and put one over the sgpc. And did the money come from Maharajs golak? is the ravan raaj indian govt your maharaj? It was them who gave the money,and there are many books that state this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 "could you kindly provide evidence that he was a paedophile and couldn't recite mul-mantar." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 Chatanga – the argument presented for taking money from the Government is clear enough (i.e. they caused the damage, so they should pay for it). The fact was that the vast majority of Sikhs and Nihangs alike did not agree with Baba Santa Singh’s decision, for whatever reason, however here are the issues to ponder over: - Let’s agree for the time being for argument's sake that Baba Santa Singh’s decision was ill-conceived, however how does that provide any grounds for removing him from the panth? The fact is simple, those who had their control over the SGPC at the time (i.e. Taksal, AKJ and others) used the institution of the Akal Thakt as a political tool against Baba Santa Singh (who arguably was equally used by other parties as a pawn in the wild chess game underway). - Next issue is that, whilst we may for the purposes of discussion, except Baba Santa Singh’s decision to be an error, please explain why the Taksal left it necessary to demolish the entire remains of the building and re-create a historically incorrect structure which frankly has no heritage value left whatsoever. - Finally, my initial posts concerning Baba Santa Singh and the use of Government funds and Government protection served only to illustrate precisely the lack of consistency in the arguments of certain Buddha Dal supporters who one hand criticise Balbir Singh for having political support, yet gloss over the very same support that Baba Santa Singh made frequent use of, then come up with frankly absurd emotional garbage as we are frequently witnessing on this thread and elsewhere. Xylitol, the “choice†by many segments of the Sikh community to gloss over the finer prints of Ranjit Singh’s lives are exactly the same factors that explain why a certain type of politics is played out in the Buddha Dal, SGPC, Taksal and AKJ. N30 – whilst you are looking into the paedophilia claims lodged against Maharaja Ranjit Singh, also be sure to look into the sources which later claim he was impotent…I’m sure you’ll find it interesting reading to discover a man who had so many women on one hand and then was simultaneously supposedly unable to get it up, but somehow managed to get it on with little boys…a lot of consistency you will agree here as well, no doubt. Also, let’s not forget, despite what the certain group (alluded to above in my comment to Xylitol) make think of Maharaja Ranjit Singh’s kingdom, Khalsa Raj it certainly was not. Sanatani Raj, it certainly was and it was precisely under this Raj that much of what has come to be known as the Sanatan Sikh tradition (whether one uses Oberoi’s definition or that of Nihang Ustad Niddar Singh) flourished across Punjab and gladly supported the supposed heavy drinking, womanising, paedophilic, philistine Maharaja Ranjit Singh….and then went on (and in some cases continue to this day) to support the Patiala Maharajas, some of whom were known for not only drinking but also smoking and yet the intellectuals of this Sanatan era chose so wisely to place their pictures next to Maharaj in their Ashrams and Akharas… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 Gurfateh, Narinjana Bhai are you claiming that Nihang Singhs supported maharaja ranjit singh? In regards to the Patiala Rajas - it was they who were responsible for the massacre of Nihang Singhs under Baba Hanuman Singh which lead to the Dalpanth fleeing to Nander. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 I have never heard of the claims of maharaja ranjit singh being a peodophile, i guess it depends who you speak too, some say taksal has them, some say the buddha dal is full of them, bhai vir singh was one, etc. none of these claims have ever been substantiated and never will be. re the opium use if it is bad i think someone should tell the nihangs! As for harmandir sahib being covered in gold well i dont think it is that bad, it looks stunning. The al aqsa masjid in jeruselum the third holiest mosque has a gold dome, the holy kaa'ba has golden door and gold inscriptions of the holy ko'ran on a black cloth. I dont think there is nothing wrong with this, it is just showing the importance of the place due to the amount of value both material and spiritual to a place. Maharaja Ranjit Singh Ji were in the presence of Sants like Baba Sahib Singh Ji Bedi, Baba Maharaj Singh Ji Norangabaad and Baba Bir Singh Ji Norangabaad. There are stories of them reciting the japji sahib when reaching the attak river in order to get the water to receed. This can be found in the sampardai taksal steek by Sewapanthi Sant Kirpal Singh Ji Satogali Walae and a painting for this event can be found in the calcutta museum. As for Baba Santa Singh Ji i think the issue of them and 1984 is that the money given to them by Boota Singh who was part of the congress parliament. The money was seen as blood money. It would have been the same if a singh who was a contemporary of Ahmed Shah abdali had borrowed money from him after he desecrated the harmandir sahib to rebuild it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 In reply to you last comment brother Kam, Did Sardar Jussa Singh Ahluwalia not make his Pathan prisoners (who had virtually destored the HArimandir Sahib complex) repair all the damage they had caused? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 Veer ji i do not know the answer to that question, i will have to read up on it but i trust your knowledge of history. i was unaware of this 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 In reply to you last comment brother Kam, Did Sardar Jussa Singh Ahluwalia not make his Pathan prisoners (who had virtually destored the HArimandir Sahib complex) repair all the damage they had caused? Jassa Singh did take many prisoners at Amritsar, but mainly they were to clear the carcasses and debris the afghans had thrown into the sarovar. If the afghans had destroyed the darbar Sahib they themselves wouyldnt have been able to restore it to the original. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 also niranjana the wild chess game analogy is perfect to describe this. nice words. the only player of the game was indirasur gandhi. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jassasingh Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 well the story i have heard about it .... akalidal and sgpc tried their best to get seva .... but sgpc were not allowed by govt to do seva ... and there dialog going between sgpc leaders talwandi tohra badal and sikh in indra gandhi govt like butta singh and others to help them and get the seva of harimandir sahib ... but indra gandhi stood on her stance that army will repair it and they will not free the temple till its fully repaired ... even sikhs in indras govt gain zial singh etc didnt wanted it to happen ... so they searched out some singh whome seva can be given whole sant samaj was searched and then nihang singh jathebandi was seen ... and butta singh contacted baba santa singh for the seva ... remember on the other side sgpc is still trying to get seva when dialog was there in between nihangs and govt of india ... and when it was decided that nihangs are given seva ... then it was decided at akal takth sahib that no one will do seva ... if its not sgpc then no one should take seva ... and very next day from akal takth it was declared ... and whats wrong if nihangs did seva are they not sikhs .... and whats wrong if its made again with money of indian govt ??? they destroyed it they should pay for it ... it happened in past when ever there is some jung in two kingdoms or kings in past the looser pay for the nooksan to the winner and he was forced to do ... even during times of guru gobind singh sahib when bahadar shah was made king he forced paharis to pay for the loss singhs had during battles between them ... it was puratan rule ... anyone can search history ... would it be better if army did the seva ... one thing was clear sgpc would not have been allowed ... either it was army or nihangs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 Most people are also unaware that Sant Narain Singh of Nanaksar was also largely involved with Baba Santa Singh in the rebuilding of the AKal Takht. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 You guys keep on worshiping your Jatt heroes Ranjit Singh and Jarnail Singh... I stick to Guru Gobind Singh Maula Hafez! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 You guys keep on worshiping your Jatt heroes Ranjit Singh and Jarnail Singh... I stick to Guru Gobind Singh Maula Hafez! This has nothing to do with jatt-patt and you know that yaar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 jatt heroes dont mean sikh heroes. seriously man for a guy wiv so much knowledge you let yourself down wiv such drivel. nanak fika boliye tan man fika hoye. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 Javanmard i am not a Jatt, i do not know my family caste at all, my parents in order to rid of it changed their surname along with others to 'Pardeshi' so we remember we are foreign to england and in that was do not ever need to know our old social caste as in sikhism they dont exist as you know. Sant Narain Singh Ji of Nanaksar was involved as were many other sants such as Sant Nihal Singh Ji Harian Vela walae but many of the sants asked for forgiveness soon after they were excommunicated by the jathedar of the akal takhat. only a few didnt including sant narain singh and baba santa singh ji. Javanmard have you spoke to Kamalroop singh from northampton as he was present when baba santa singh ji came to the akal takhat to be brought back into the fold. I do not support Sant Jarnail Singh Ji or oppose them but truely admire them for their great katha. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 Kam1825 Yes I spoke to him and what he said is what I put on my post. Chatanga Maybe you want to learn how to read and write before you post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 Thats quite surprising he mentioned events differently to me. It doesn't matter what is done is done. All these posts are becoming now are slanderous against great vidvaans and souls. By that i am referring to both Baba Santa Singh Ji and Sant Jarnail Singh Ji who i both respect. None of us actually have first hand knowledge of what occured at the time as were not present in amritsar in 1984 probably due to being too young. Whatever view we get it will be biased and slanted towards an angle. all people have got to remember that the term history does come from his story and wee see all from that persons viewpoint without realising any of the emnity and hatred they may have towards the individuals they speak about. By the way Javanmard what is kamalroop up to these days? is he still working on his translation of the sri sarbloh granth? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 Thats quite surprising he mentioned events differently to me. Please share different version of events that we are discussing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 When i spoke to kamalroop he told me he was at Harmandir Sahib when Baba Santa Singh Ji came with the nihangs to come back into the panth. I was told Baba Santa Singh Ji apologised for their actions (i was not told what actions these were) in 1984 leading to them being excommunicated and due to this were given a takhiya to complete. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 That's not what he told me last time I saw him and he wouldn't lie to me as he is my brother so... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 well i have no reason to lie about it either. is he your real brother. i studied with him i leicester and his cousin used to be in my chemistry class at college, believe he is in the armed forces now 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 Not my brother by blood but by spirit. Yeah his cousin is in Iraq right now I believe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jassasingh Posted May 12, 2007 Report Share Posted May 12, 2007 i king would and should always do every thing to protect his kingdom .... i dont wanna go off topic .... but just think about it .... khalistan is there and its a truth that sikhs are in sampardas .... then take a samparda naam dharis stood up and say we are not safe in khalistan or we are getting abused in khalistan .... and demand a separate nation ... what will khalsa rule will do suppress them or force our mareyada on them or give them their country .... ???? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 12, 2007 Report Share Posted May 12, 2007 sorry guys but i have to do another split, just trying to organize things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 12, 2007 Report Share Posted May 12, 2007 sorry in the process of spliting the topic, xylitol post get deleted, But i managed to copy the post. quote from xylitol: The difference between one group taking penance money/seva from the other is that when the indian sarkar won, they were not giving penance money to Sikhs, or restoration money to make things right. They were hiding their black deeds, they didn't apologise. they had tried to crush the spirit of the Sikhs (& win elections), which is why they attacked, they didn't try to restore that spirit like they tried to restore Akaal Takht Sahib's physical structure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.