why some of saints have 108 ?

[ssinghuk]

'fateh ji

wen listening to Sant Hardev singh lulo wale katha on Asa di Vaar he said that the total number of shabads/stanzas comes to 108:

60 saloks By Guru Nanak Dev Ji including some by Guru Angad Dev ji

24 pauries By Guru Nanak Dev Ji

24 shants by Guru Ramdas Ji

dont know if that means n e thing tho, long time since i listened to and ive lost the tape as well

[Kam1825]

i thought 108 represented the beads of a mala and 108 was complete also i forgot the name of the sacred hindu texts but there are 108 in all this shows complete dvine knowledge as far as i have been informed.

108 is used to represent bhram gianis one has has become part of god.

As far as the refences with names of shiva i was made aware these were more then 108 so that should have no relevance to the number. according to the vishnu sahansar nama which is a hindu bani with just different names of vishnu with different attribute. its composition is similar to the jaap sahib. in this there are way more names then 1000.

108 also represents the major blood vessels in the body linked to the endocrine or hormonal system according to hindu texts. as some of these vessels are gupt linked to the dasam dwar and chakras. it represents one who has total control of their body, mind and soul supposedly howver i have not read anything to support this.

does anyone know of any texts that we could refer to.

if not i will wait for baba hari singh ji to come back to england in the summer and get them to do a divan on it.

[Guest Singh47]

Actually, 108 was is a scholarly title like Pandit, Vedanthi etc. 108 symbolizes all the knowledge of the Puraans. In total there are 108 Puraans. Thus when one would master all 108 Puraans, one would add the prestige’s title of 108 to this name. This is why the Brahmans, and Pandits use it.

But I doubt most of the Sants in Punjab who currently use 108 in there names know even 5% of the total Puraans. Most of them are not even metric pass, yet they use terms such as 108. I guess the most “Unpar†would have to be the ones who use “1008†to there names. There is no such title in existence! Yet some people use it. Ignorance is truly bliss……

A Pandit who is truly 108 is highly intelligent. As you can imagine, mastering 108 puraans is no easy task. His knowledge would be unrivaled throughout the world.

Vir Singh

[Guest]

As per Indian mythology, Indian culture has a very special significance of

number 108. What is this number represent, and why is it so important?

I will try to give some answers to it, all the answers I am giving come from

a book on "Mantra Mahavigyan".

1) In one minute, we breathe in approximately 15 times, in 1 hour 900 times,

and in 12 hours 10800 times, and in a day 10800 * 2 times. A dy consists

of 24 hours, and if we set aside half the day for our day to day routines,

then one can spend 12 hours for recitation of one's idol. Therefore, the

maximmum number of times that one can recite "mantra", or perform "Jap" are

10800. If one wants to obtain 100% benefit of its jap, then performing

jap 108 times will give you the benefit of 100%. That's why in a "Mala",

there are 108 beads. It is written in Vedas, that 1 Jap corresponds to

1 mala (which has 108 beads), therefore performing jap of 108 malas will

result in 100% benefit.

2) Astronomically, there are 27 constillations in our galaxy, and each one them

has 4 directions, and 27 * 4 = 108, In other words he number 108 covers

the whole galaxy.

3) According to Indian scriptures, letter 9 corresponds to Lord Brahma (the

creator of universe). Mathematically, the interesting property of 9 is

9x1 = 9

9 x 2 = 18 (8+1 = 9)

9 * 3 = 27 (7+2 = 9)

9 * 12 = 108 (1+0+8 = 9)

I don't know what it leads to.

4) In Hindu religion, number 9 is very important. Keeping the importance of

number 9, Rishi Vyas has created 9 Purans, 108 MahaPuran (Upnishads).

Mahabharat has 18 chapters, Geeta has 18 chapters, Bhagavat has 108000

Shloks (verses).

The addition of digits of number 108 is 9, and number 9 is related with

Brahma, that's why 108 is very important, and came into lot of Indian

scriptures.

5) Indian Vedas, treats the Sun as God, and Sun has 12 signs (Zodiac signs).

In Yajurved, Sun is related with Lord Brahma (the number 9), remember -

12 * 9 = 108; therefore for Gods Prayer, the number 108 is very sacred.

6) According to Indian mythology, there are 4 Yugs

Satyug - consists of 172,800 years (1+7+2+8 = 18 == (1+8 = 9)

TretaYug consists of 1296000 years (1+2+9+6 = 18 = (1+8 = 9)

DwaparYug consists of 864000 years (8+4+6) = 18 = (1+8 = 9)

Kaliyug consists of 432000 years (4+3+2) = 9

Uma S. Pandey

usp@austin.ibm.com

http://www.luckymojo.com/esoteric/religion...000.nmbr108.usp

[Guest]

Also good read:

Writer: Eddie S. Singh

 Sanskrit alphabet: There are 54 letters in the Sanskrit alphabet. Each has masculine and feminine, shiva and shakti. 54 times 2 is 108.

 Pranayama: If one is able to be so calm in meditation as to have only 108 breaths in a day, enlightenment will come.

 Upanishads: Some say there are 108 Upanishads, texts of the wisdom of the ancient sages.

 Sri Yantra: On the Sri Yantra there are marmas where three lines intersect, and there are 54 such intersections. Each intersections has masculine and feminine, shiva and shakti qualities. 54 times 2 equals 108. Thus, there are 108 points that define the Sri Yantra as well as the human body.

 9 times 12: Both of these numbers have been said to have spiritual significance in many traditions. 9 times 12 is 108. Also, 1 plus 8 equals 9. That 9 times 12 equals 108.

 Powers of 1, 2, and 3 in math: 1 to 1st power=1; 2 to 2nd power=4 (2x2); 3 to 3rd power=27 (3x3x3). 1x4x27=108

 Desires: There are said to be 108 earthly desires in mortals.

 Lies: There are said to be 108 lies that humans tell.

 Delusions: There are said to be 108 human delusions or forms of ignorance.

 Heart Chakra: The chakras are the intersections of energy lines, and there are said to be a total of 108 energy lines converging to form the heart chakra. One of them, sushumna leads to the crown chakra, and is said to be the path to Self-realization.

 Marmas: Marmas or marmastanas are like energy intersections called chakras, except have fewer energy lines converging to form them. There are said to be 108 marmas in the subtle body.

 Time: Some say there are 108 feelings, with 36 related to the past, 36 related to the present, and 36 related to the future.

 8 extra beads: In doing a practice of counting the number of repetitions of the mala, 100 are counted as completed. The remaining are said to cover errors or omissions. The 8 are also said to be an offering to God and Guru.

 Chemistry: Interestingly, there are about 115 elements known on the periodic table of the elements. Most of those, around or higher than the number 100 only exist in the laboratory, and some for only thousandths of a second. The number that naturally exist on Earth is around 100.

 Astrology: There are 12 constellations, and 9 arc segments called namshas or chandrakalas. 9 times 12 equals 108. Chandra is moon, and kalas are the divisions within a whole.

 Planets and Houses: In astrology, there are 12 houses and 9 planets. 12 times 9 equals 108.

 Goddess names: There are said to be 108 Indian goddess names.

 Gopis of Krishna: In the Krishna tradition, there were said to be 108 gopis or maid servants of Krishna.

 1, 0, and 8: Some say that 1 stands for God or higher Truth, 0 stands for emptiness or completeness in spiritual practice, and 8 stands for infinity or eternity.

 Sun and Earth: The diameter of the sun is 108 times the diameter of the Earth.

 Numerical scale: The 1 of 108, and the 8 of 108, when added together equals 9, which is the number of the numerical scale, i.e. 1, 2, 3 ... 10, etc., where 0 is not a number.

 Meditations: Some say there are 108 styles of meditation.

 Paths to God: Some suggest that there are 108 paths to God.

 Smaller divisions: The number 108 is divided, such as in half, third, quarter, or twelfth, so that some malas have 54, 36, 27, or 9 beads.

 Hinduism: 108 is said to refer to the number of Hindu deities. Some say that each of the deities has 108 names.

 Islam: The number 108 is used in Islam to refer to God.

 Jain: In the Jain religion, 108 are the combined virtues of five categories of holy ones, including 12, 8, 36, 25, and 27 virtues respectively.

 Sikh: The Sikh tradition has a mala of 108 knots tied in a string of wool, rather than beads.

 Chinese: The Chinese Buddhists and Taoists use a 108 bead mala, which is called su-chu, and has three dividing beads, so the mala is divided into three parts of 36 each.

 Stages of the soul: Said that Atman, the human soul or center goes through 108 stages on the journey.

 Meru: This is a larger bead, not part of the 108. It is not tied in the sequence of the other beads. It is the quiding bead, the one that marks the beginning and end of the mala.

 Dance: There are 108 forms of dance in the Indian traditions.

 Praiseworthy souls: There are 108 qualities of praiseworthy souls.

[Guest]

Also since we have ponder upon 108 sacred number.

Does anyone know what does 111 represent?

I think it represent Guru Avtar but I am not too sure :?

Please discuss

[akalsahaye]

fateh ji,

why saints have 108 wit their names?

brahmgiani 108 sant---------- singh.

sant 108 maharaj------- singh

is this related wit maala having 108 manke ?

Actually it was earlier attched to Hindu priests or saints..and it was considered tht 108 SANT would be the one who have read all 108 main granths of Hindu Religion...

I dont have the total count...but its like

4-Vedas

6-Shastaras

27-Manu Smritiyaan

18-Puranas

18-upnishads and some small upnishads also

etc

and this same thing was adopted by sikhs in saying brahmgiaani shreeman sant baba 108 ... so n so..

Its just what I have heard from someone..No proofs

[Kam1825]

There are 3 different reasons why 108 are used and 2 reasons why 111 is used i will post it as soon as i have completed my work with Sant Hari Singh Ji

[valli singh]

.

[big5abi]

That's right veer ji, the significance of 108 is that it refers to the past lives of tapasaya. The bit about the veins that was posted before is not true, because there's more than 108 veins in the human body, actually there are said to be 72,000 of which 3(irha, pingala, sukhmana) are considered to be the most purest. These 3 give power to the chakras which in turn gives rise to the kundalni. When a person has completed 108 births of spiritual earnings that person is said to have reached the stage of a sant. a sant is beyond all physical matter and is not stained by maya. Controlling the veins is not much of an accomplishment for a saint as yogis can also do this.

[Kam1825]

RIght 108, i have never heard of the reasons given above by Valli Singh and Big5abi.

The following is from hand written pothis by Sri Maan Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindrawalae, Sant Giani Mohan SIngh Ji Bhindrawalae, Sant Giani Inderjeet Singh Ji Damdami Taksal, Sant Giani Hari Singh Ji Randhawae Walae

Sri is regarded as and Adhar Bodhak shabad and is used when addressing someone in respect. In puratan times there was a coded system when writing letters to one another.

When one was to write a letter to their wife or child you would write Sri 101

when writing a letter to a servant you write Sri 102

when writing a letter to a friend you write Sri 103

when writing to an enemy you write Sri 104

when a servant was to write to a master then they used Sri 105

when writing to parents or a vidya guru then use Sri 106

when writing to a Sultan Bhadshah or a Dharam Achariya then you used Sri 108.

Another reason for the 108. When using the the hindi alphabet the following is used:

From the letter Ka to Ba is 23 letters

From the letter Ka to R is 27 letters

From the letter Ka to Ha is 33 letters

From the letter Ka to Ma is 25 letters.

The letters spell Brahm and is a total of 108. 108 stand for a purkh who is the form of Brahm

Another meaning for 108 is for the number of Nirol Gian Upanishads. One who has read all of the 108 Upanishads is said to become the form of Brahm and is given the title Sri 108.

108 stands for Pooran or complete. This is the reason why this term is used for an Aproksh Brahmgiani

Now 111 is another title used. I have seen it used for Sant Giani Gurbachan SIngh Ji Bhindrawalae and Sant Ishar SIngh Ji Rara Sahib Walae.

A living mahapursh is given the title 108 but when they discard the body they become exempt from three things which are Desh, Kaal and Vastoo. These three are added to 108 to make 111. This is only used for Mahapursh who are Sachkhand Vasi.

In the sanatan dharam 111 is also used for an individual who has mastered the 108 upanishads and is a tri vedi (has read three vedas in completion) The numbers accumulated again becomes 111

Hope that helps

[shaheediyan]

Very interesting, thanks for that Kam Veer Ji.

Are there any old (18th/19thc) examples of these codes being used to adress people in letters?

[big5abi]

How can reading books make one a sant? as for as the coded system that u referred to, that has nothing to do with 108 and 111 when talking about a sant. maybe true about letter wroting but has nothing to do with the spiritual meaning. Any sinner can read 108 books or scriptures but it doesnt make them a sant. Sri guru granth sahib ji gives soo much respect to sants as also in the sukhmani sahib. I dont think that repect is because they have read 108 books. there have been sants who haven't read any scripture yet they still have the knowledge and wisdom. To become brahm one has to accumulate spiritual earnings from past lives, not from reading books. when sants discard the body they don't automatically become 111. desh kaal vastu has been conquered by a sant before he is even born. sants dont need to discard their mortal coils in order to conquer desh kaal vastu. the spiritual meaning of 108 is the past births. the coded system of letter wrting is a degeneration of that. how can u compare 108 lives as a bhagat which total millions of years(longer life spans in other yugas) to writing letters and reading books.

[Kam1825]

Those are three seperate meanings if you see. It does not mean that one has to do all the things. But those are the arth of 108.

big5abi you say Sant Ishar Singh Ji were always 111. Really have yot then Upanishads are, u seen their hand written letters? I have seen 15 of them signed wither Ishar Singh or Ishar Hari (Hari is another word used for Singh) no 111 but yes 108.

When someone is in a body how have they conquored Desh Kal and Vastoo, i can tell you where they are and confine them to a place, i a can confine them to a spicie also so even though they are brahmleen until they discard the body wihich is Kaal and become viapak they are confined to desh kaal and vastoo. SO how can you say that a form in the Sargun saroop is not confined to Desh, Kaal and Vastoo. If you need to read further about this i suggest the Sampardai steeks and Taksal Steeks on the Sri Jap Ji Sahib. Also the KAtha but Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindrawalae.

I think your reasoning behind 108 just being that of lives is a bit beyond belief. If it is that 108 is due to lives what is the point of 111. Does that mean if Sant Ishar SIngh Ji were to come as a nit avtar again they will be regarded as Sri 109?

[big5abi]

sants conquer desh kaal vastu because it has nothing to do with the body its about the soul. the soul is beyond everything. super-conciousness. they ascend from their body and aren't a part of this world. even though it seems as if they are. ur saying guru gobind singh ji was confined to desh kaal vastu? dont think so. only the body is confined but the body has nohing to do with anything, the soul is always in sachkhand.

[Matheen]

big5abi - where did you hear/read about the past live thing?

Never heard it before and it doesn't really make sense.

[Kam1825]

Yes Guru Gobind Singh Ji and everything in a sargun form is confined to Desh Kaal and Vastu. The air in a pitcher can be confined to a location, once the pitcher is broken and the air mixes with the ether it can not longer be confined to this.

Even though Guru Gobind Singh ji were the Sargun Avtar of God you can say where they were on certain date, where they left their sareer or went gupt and what specie they were

Does that not class itself with Desh Kaal and Vastu if not then explain who is not God out of all of the avtars, pir, pigambars, and sants.

If you dont agree then please explain the terms of Desh Kaal and Vastu and how God is exempt from these in the Sargun saroop whilst it is easy to explain regarding the Nirgun saroop

[Matheen]

Kam, I don't think Mahapursh are bound by time and place, even while in their sareers. The sareer is bound, but I've had the experience of a someone telling me what was going on at a distant place while sitting in front of me.

Does that still count as being bound by desh, kaal and vastu?

[Kam1825]

yes that still counts as being bound by vastu, desh aand kaal.

Mahatmas are uncomprehendable by any one to trying and eulogise or expound their praise. Reading the Jeevani of Great Mahapursh such as Sant Giani Sundar Singh Ji Bhindrawalae and Sant Ishar Singh Ji Rara Sahib Walae one learns that the laws of this world which control our day to day activities are not bound to them.

Stories of Sant Ishar SIngh Ji being in Gidhri, Kadhani and Rara Sahib at the same time is one of the examples. Bhai Randhir Singh Ji being able to communicate with others far away through psychic powers, Baba Nand Singh Ji being able to predict an earthquake, etc.

I do not ever question the ability of a Sadhu at all as it is beyond my comprehension and understanding (That is of real Sadhu sants).

However you ask any Mahapursh this question. Personally i suggest Sant Giani Mohan Singh Ji as there is no other Aproksh Brahmgiani like them. Ask them to explain Desh Kaal and Vastoo or the meanings of 108 and the number 111 for sachkhand vasi mahapurkh. They will be able to make people understand these things better.

The Sargun form is bound by Desh Kaal and Vastu while Nirinkar is away from Desh Kaal Vastoo and is Sujati Vijati and Svai Ghat bhed.

I think Tirath is the light of knowledge on this forum and if he gets a chance should be able to explain this better then any other.

[valli singh]

.

[Kam1825]

Gurfateh Veer Ji i will email you tonight, will chat soon i have now got load of publications by Sri Maan Baba Madhusudhan Singh Ji

[big5abi]

I still disagree veer ji, if they are bound by desh kaal and vastu how did guru nanak leave to sachkhand without having their body cremated or buried, obiously that defies desh. and also how did lakxmi dass leave to sach khand with his physical body. when he was flying through astral space what desh was he in? one time someone had passed away at a gurdwara where baba nand singh ji was. and when he was notified he had said how dare kaal eneter this place. and the person came back to life. doesnt that defy kaal? I heard sant saroop singh from chandigarh once talk about desh kaal vastu, that when in samadhi or when emmersed in naam the country or desh a person is in becomes forgotten the time year kaal is not known and the objects and people nearby are not noticed. hence u cannot confine anyone to anything. I find it insulting actually when u said u can confine sri guru gobind singh to a place and say he is confined to kaal. he created kaal he was before kaal. and no u cant confine any sant or guru to desh kaal or vastoo. passing away and accepting Gods will is another thing but saying guru ji is confined to kaal is ridiculous.

[Kam1825]

with the Guru's we do not differ in opinion. The Gurus were the Sargun form of Parmatma as written in the teekas. However i ask you a two things

1) Can yo place the Gurus in specific locations in the Sri Nanak Parkash and Sri Sooraj Prakash or any other Ithasak granths? I fyou can then they are bound by Desh. You can state that Guru Nanak DEv Ji were in Mecca, Nepal, with the Sidhs as certain times. If you can then they are confined to a Desh. If you still do not agree please tell me what where you disagree. Before you believe my remarks are insulting look at page 38 of the taksal steek on the JAp Ji Sahib with regards to Desh. Only that which is Sarab Viapak and cannot be confined to a specific location is above DESH.

Kaal again read page 38 to understand this. If you can name the parents of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji and their location where they became gupt. Kaal does not just mean death. God is the the constant form of Sat Chit Anand. Gods form is never changing. Whilst the Gurus are in a Sargun form like Sadhus their form is forever changing.

Birth, to a young child, mature child, youth, teen, adult, old age. Does the human body not change form. Does facial hari not Grow. Does it not change colour? This is where one is bound by Kaal. Only God is forever constant. Too Sada Salamat Nirinkar. Now i hope you can understand what Kaal is and stop suggesting i am insulting the Guru's.

Vastoo. Again on the same page. It is too much to go into the three avasthas and the Vairat, Hirangarbh and Abyakrit saroops. These states only come about when Brahm used the creative force of Maya to become Ishvar. When Sadhus go merge with the Brahm whilst living they are one with God also but not sarab viapak. They are however still here due to Maya being used to create a form for them. Once they shed this mortal koil they are sarab viapak and exempt from Maya (although they are already awy from the lure of Maya) thus above vastoo. Vastoo is the body.

This is why the 3 are added to 108 to use 111 after a mahatma has become brahmleen and are part of the nirgun parmatma.

Singh do you have any letters by Sant Ishar SIngh Ji Rara Sahib Walae with 111 on them. You mentioned they used 111 whilst in their nit avtar. I have not seen one and if they exist would like to see one?

I hope that clears my points up a bit i am sure i will not need to post again on this thread as have nothing more that is constructive to add

I in no way am taking anything away from the High avasthas that have graced this faith or insulting the Guru's. They are the Sargun form of Parmatma which i have written and posted about on another thread about Guru Nanak Dev Ji being God.

[big5abi]

ya ive read stories about the gurus. The whole laws of nature were turned upside down so how does desh kaal and vastu even apply. its beyond physics. have u read the bala janamsakhi when guru nanak went to different planets? what country was his body in then. i agree that his body is in different places but guru nanak the spiritual entitiy isnt confined to that. even still how do you account for when he dematerializes and teleports. how can u confine that. and u didnt answer about laxmi dass when he flew to sachkhand in his physical body. if thats possible doesnt that undermine the whole concept of him ever being so bound by desh kaal vastu. just because sants bodys are made of maya doesnt make them confined to maya.

as for kaal, it is only the body that belongs to him. He(kaal) has no control over the soul because souls are the children of akaal purkh and are immortal. the transient world is all the creation of Kaal. but one who takes refuge in akaal purkh, Kaal can do no harm. The eternal shabad is the manifestation of Waheguru. by practising it, one trancends the limits of kaal. wherever there is the sound of shabad kaal can never interfere and he keeps away from there. at the last moment of life kaal does not come to take away the disciple of the true guru. The guru himself comes and takes the soul with him. kal doesnt come near a devotee. so kaal again has nothing to do with mahapursh. growing up and changin hair colours doesnt not mean guru ji was confined by kaal. kaal is a reflection of akaal. how can he who is one with akaal be affected by kaal.

about the 111 ive known of people referring to sant isher singh ji as brahmgiani 111when they were still here. so thats why i said that. and i've known sant narayan singh ji from tapa draj and they were also known as brahmgiani 111. and i've also seen some maha pursh who stayed 108 even after departing from this world. so what u said didnt make sense either.

[Maha Kharag Singh]

well one of the legends of Baba Kahan Das Ji of Kala Sangha, is that when Baba Ji would go into Yog avastha (meditative state) His body would fall apart into 108 pieces and then join back up again.

Maybe sants are shapeshifters? and hence the 108 title.

no pun intended