shaheediyan Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Veer Ji, Here is a fact: For the last 15 years, Unis idea of Sikh Society has been to arrange bhangra giggs and have dating events disguised as cha parties etc.. The conversion rate at Uni for Gursikhs has been zero. I have been to Uni and know people who have been to many other unis and still go to uni. In the last few years some Sikh Societies have actually begun to be run by Sikhs and the events calender has changed, there are kirtan programmes, simran programmes lectures in a variety of sikh topis etc. Today, there is a huge jump in the number of people coming into Sikhi. My point remains unanswered, bhangra contans lustful, attachment, revenge, intoxiation promoting.... songs, how can listening to this crap or being in an environment where people are smoking, drinking, wearing skimpy clothes, flirting, fighting etc - --- be of any benefit to a Gursikh? You are simply trying to justify something that blatently has no place in Sikhi. Next you will be telling me that Gursikh go to lapdancing clubs on stag nights with a pue heart just to do parchaar? Again, how you decide to have a good time is your business, promotion of these songs, clubs, social theme does not belong on a SIKH forum. As for your Sardaar Alum Singh example, please provide tangible evidence from an orinal source (not a modern book written by someone). Even is this is true, it bears no significance. 1 person out of millions of famous Sikhs is not enough to justify your actions. If anything Sardar ji would have been influenced by SUFI or Karnatik dancing, both of which are forms of artistic expression for God, not to have a good time in a nightclub. Not all Sardaars were perfect, we know what the Bhangi Misl was fond of, and we know that Ranjit Singh was FAR from a saint, so please don't draw on individuals. It could be that Alum Singh liked folk dance, but again you need to lern about Punjabi culture and see how this is completely different from nightclub dancing. Folk ws done by men seprately and Gidda by women seprately, it is only in the last century that men and women have started dancing together. The songs were family or history based. Again, even here I am talking about a cultural aspect, this still has no place in Sikhi, as we know how rude and ofensive boliyan can be. How would you feel about your sister, mum or daughter dancing in a nightclub with strange, drunk, drugged, lustful men surrounding them, would you be "cool" with that, giving all men in teh club the benefit of the doubt, and believing Gurdaas Mann when he says Kao, piya ash karo mitro, dil saaf hona chahee da?? Don't get offended by this example, for you also dance around other mens (possibly Sikhs) sister and daughters in nightclubs. Our Guru's rejected this form of expression, instead they chose a much more intellectual and higher art form (the highest), music (real music not bhangra or hip hop)- in the form kirtan being done in prescribed raags to induce exact emotions using the most beautiful and closest voice resembling instruments in the world - the Rabab, Saranda, Sarangi, Taus and Dilruba. It is not parchaar done by "pure hearted" gursikhs in shady nightclubs that causes people to jap naam, it is those peoples karam and Vahe-Guru Ji's kirpa that does. And that kirpa may come through Gursikh who are following their Guru's hukum and staying away from manmats and manmat environments and absorbing themselves in teh company of Sadh Sangat. Hope I have not offended, just trying to seperate the lotus from the chaos. Daas. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 well, there could be a million reasons why Alum Singh had that nickname. Unfortunately I don't know, and I only initially came to know of his name because of the contributions that his wife made to the Panth. However, your experience of uni Sikh Societies is a million miles away from what I experienced. Whereas I used real events as examples, you have hypothesised. Until BOSS took control in London, the Sikh Soc's there were thriving. I could write much more, and when I have more time I will try. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 A Sikh forum will have serious sections - where gurmat vichaar can be done; and non-serious sections, where non-Sikhi related topics can be discussed. If we are to purge those things that are anti-Sikh then I suggest the first point of call should be the serious sections of this forum. More pertinent then 'lust' caused by bhangra music is the ego shown in those arguments where two people clash due to differing opinion. Furthermore, there are people on this forum who are at different stages in life. Some are very religious, and others less so. A forum needs to cater for all - if you can get people who know very little to join this forum because of (eg) the strength of its bhangra section, then based on another forum that I'm a member of, you will actually get those people to start looking at the more religious topics. This is something I have seen first hand on Sikhportal. If we're talking specifics, then there's one thing that the two of us will probably agree 100% on. In the bhangra industry today, there's too much emphasis on sex. The videos are just so poorly thought out - bunch of mates in a club and a girl in the middle pouting at the camera, lookin like a right moody cow. And the videos coming out of Punjab are SOOO much worse! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 Veer Ji, Whats the next step. Enticing youth into Gurdwara... by having bhangra parties in darbaar? There has been no need to compromise Sikhi for the last 500 years, why do we need to start now? Have we lost faith in our Guru? It is Wahe-Guru's kirpa, and his servants who live according to his hukum that spread his word and help change peoples lives ... i.e. Baba Jarnail Singh, Baba Puran Singh, Baba Isher Singh (Rara Sahib), Baba Nand Singh Ji, Baba Attar Singh Ji, these Mahapurkh and many, many unknown Gursikh, have lived in Guru's will and inspired millions. Having Bhangra on a "Sikh" forum is not even a drop in an ocean, in fact it's positively insulting for todays bhangra and what is associated with it to be promoted and enjoyed under the banner of Sikhi. I am more interested in youth (from all backgrounds, white, chinese, black), coming to "SIKH" forums and being inspired rather than disgusted. I know white Sikhs that think Punjabis have lost the plot and diseased and blinded by culture. Know body is judging anyone as you keep trying to suggest, the point again is simple. The world has become forgetful to Sikhi and have forgotten what a sacred word Sikh is and all that it represents. As children of our father Guru Gobind Singh Ji, we have a duty to uphold his honour and his Sikhi, this is not done by having bhangra on a forum that people would ever visit for the 1st time with the aim of learning about SIKHISM. I understand where yo uare coming from, but the truth is this is simply a case of us thinking that we have the plan, the intellect and the wsidom to help the youth, when in fact the only wisdom to be had for the last 500 years has been from following our Guru and living according to his will. It is those diamonds that have kept Sikhi alive, not those with their own ideas, Gurmat not Manmat. Vahe-Guru 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Whats the next step. Enticing youth into Gurdwara... by having bhangra parties in darbaar? do i really need to reply? I surprises that was all you managed to guage from my post. Fateh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Veer Ji, my whole reply was in response to your post, not just the one sentence selected by yourself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 I understand that, but that one line seemed to speak volumes about what you gained from my post which I found disappointing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted June 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 lolz, man, they have so far done a great message in the bhangra industry Nashia Tha Dhoor Raavay, was a hell of a tune, and Tigerstyle doing the shaheed albums, plus war cries which was originally on a "bhangra" album specialist n truskool, will be working on some sort of religious project though its not defo yet i personally belieave there northing wrong for a sikh to listen /or dance to bhangra music,or even sing it, it all depends all the message the song is conveying but sadly becoz of the lack of talented lyric writers recently the tunes that are coming out are bs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 Back to my 1st post. Why listen to the songs of people, when you can listen to the songs of Wahe-Guru. This is what it comes down to. Our Guru's and Mahapurkh have lead by example. Those who want to guidance and mukti will go to Guru ji, not to a bhangra gig. No one in todays day and age is that ignorent or unresourceful that they can not find Guru Ji. I revert to Guru Ji's words and those of Guru Gobind Singhs disciple: REHAT thriyaa raag sunehi chith laae || sunahu laal so jamapur jaae ||17|| Those who listen to dirty lyrics and lustful tunes with attention, listen Nand Lal Jee, they will be punished by the angel of death.; Rehatnama Bhai Nand Laal Jee GURBANI maerae mohan sravanee eih n sunaaeae || saakath geeth naadh dhhun gaavath bolath bol ajaaeae ||1|| rehaao || O my fascinating Lord, may I never listen to the faithless cynic, singing his songs and tunes, and chanting his useless words. ||1||Pause|| Page 820 Guru Arjan Dev Jee Raag Bilaaval No amount of justification will ever be able to argue with bani and rehit. Bani and Rehit have deep messages and answers in them, ones we can only feel and understand when we submit. Vahe-Guru 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artistformalyknownasodhi Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 wa if its all a lie? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 I heard a story during the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, where the Singhs or Guru Ji finished one batttle? And the Singhs felt like celebrating, they felted like dancing, they asked Guru Ji if they could dance, Guru Ji said dance then. But the Singhs were a bit shy. So then Guru Ji said put a curtain around him? If anyone can give us this sakhi, would be nice, because this story is from memory and might be wrong? Cheers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 afkas, The Guru Granth Sahib is not a lie, nor is are Bhai Nand Ji's rehitnamas. Rupz, That Sakhi is nearly as good a false justification for anti-gurmat activity as one I heard from a friend a few years who's Mama told him the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji said it was ok to drink sensibly on special occassions. Dancing is not a big mystery. Just look at Gursikh role models over the years, not one danced, but they all sang, Kirtan. Our Guru's were not trapped by culture, bhangra is culture as are non-gurmat songs, none will stand the test of time, all will evolve as all cultural things have always done and will always will do. Only Bani is Akaal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 afkas, The Guru Granth Sahib is not a lie, nor is are Bhai Nand Ji's rehitnamas. Rupz, That Sakhi is nearly as good a false justification for anti-gurmat activity as one I heard from a friend a few years who's Mama told him the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji said it was ok to drink sensibly on special occassions. Dancing is not a big mystery. Just look at Gursikh role models over the years, not one danced, but they all sang, Kirtan. Our Guru's were not trapped by culture, bhangra is culture as are non-gurmat songs, none will stand the test of time, all will evolve as all cultural things have always done and will always will do. Only Bani is Akaal. The Gurus' wasnt trapped by culture? Why you think that Guru Ji tied a rakhie for his sister? I believe Guru Ji was the most cultured. Guru Ji wasnt trapped by a limited mind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 RUPZ Ji, Why would Guru Ji turn down the Janu protection from the respected Brahman priest of his village and family, to later accept a thread of protection from his sister? Our Guru's were not trapped by culture or hypocrisy, following hukum and truth is seen upon as narrow minded by some and holy by others. One painting done in the 1920s, as a figment of someones imagination does not constitute history. Before you go on to make any more claims, could yo uplease provide an historical reference for A - Guru Gobind Singhs Bhangra advice, and B Guru Nanak Dev Ji's willingness to pick and choose which holy threads were worth wearing. Read below. salok mehlaa 1. Shalok, First Mehl: ਦਇਆ ਕਪਾਹ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਸੂਤੁ ਜਤੁ ਗੰਢੀ ਸਤੁ ਵਟੁ ॥ da-i-aa kapaah santokh soot jat gandhee sat vat. Make compassion the cotton, contentment the thread, modesty the knot and truth the twist. ਏਹੁ ਜਨੇਊ ਜੀਅ ਕਾ ਹਈ ਤ ਪਾਡੇ ਘਤੁ ॥ ayhu janay-oo jee-a kaa ha-ee ta paaday ghat. This is the sacred thread of the soul; if you have it, then go ahead and put it on me. ਨਾ ਏਹੁ ਤੁਟੈ ਨ ਮਲੁ ਲਗੈ ਨਾ ਏਹੁ ਜਲੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ naa ayhu tutai na mal lagai naa ayhu jalai na jaa-ay. It does not break, it cannot be soiled by filth, it cannot be burnt, or lost. ਧੰਨੁ ਸੁ ਮਾਣਸ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਜੋ ਗਲਿ ਚਲੇ ਪਾਇ ॥ Dhan so maanas naankaa jo gal chalay paa-ay. Blessed are those mortal beings, O Nanak, who wear such a thread around their necks. ਚਉਕੜਿ ਮੁਲਿ ਅਣਾਇਆ ਬਹਿ ਚਉਕੈ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ cha-ukarh mul anaa-i-aa bahi cha-ukai paa-i-aa. You buy the thread for a few shells, and seated in your enclosure, you put it on. ਸਿਖਾ ਕੰਨਿ ਚੜਾਈਆ ਗੁਰੁ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਥਿਆ ॥ sikhaa kann charhaa-ee-aa gur baraahman thi-aa. Whispering instructions into others' ears, the Brahmin becomes a guru. ਓਹੁ ਮੁਆ ਓਹੁ ਝੜਿ ਪਇਆ ਵੇਤਗਾ ਗਇਆ ॥੧॥ oh mu-aa oh jharh pa-i-aa vaytgaa ga-i-aa. ||1|| But he dies, and the sacred thread falls away, and the soul departs without it. ||1|| 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 RUPZ Ji, Why would Guru Ji turn down the Janu protection from the respected Brahman priest of his village and family, to later accept a thread of protection from his sister? Our Guru's were not trapped by culture or hypocrisy, following hukum and truth is seen upon as narrow minded by some and holy by others. One painting done in the 1920s, as a figment of someones imagination does not constitute history. Before you go on to make any more claims, could yo uplease provide an historical reference for A - Guru Gobind Singhs Bhangra advice, and B Guru Nanak Dev Ji's willingness to pick and choose which holy threads were worth wearing. Read below. salok mehlaa 1. Shalok, First Mehl: ਦਇਆ ਕਪਾਹ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਸੂਤੁ ਜਤੁ ਗੰਢੀ ਸਤੁ ਵਟੁ ॥ da-i-aa kapaah santokh soot jat gandhee sat vat. Make compassion the cotton, contentment the thread, modesty the knot and truth the twist. ਏਹੁ ਜਨੇਊ ਜੀਅ ਕਾ ਹਈ ਤ ਪਾਡੇ ਘਤੁ ॥ ayhu janay-oo jee-a kaa ha-ee ta paaday ghat. This is the sacred thread of the soul; if you have it, then go ahead and put it on me. ਨਾ ਏਹੁ ਤੁਟੈ ਨ ਮਲੁ ਲਗੈ ਨਾ ਏਹੁ ਜਲੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ naa ayhu tutai na mal lagai naa ayhu jalai na jaa-ay. It does not break, it cannot be soiled by filth, it cannot be burnt, or lost. ਧੰਨੁ ਸੁ ਮਾਣਸ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਜੋ ਗਲਿ ਚਲੇ ਪਾਇ ॥ Dhan so maanas naankaa jo gal chalay paa-ay. Blessed are those mortal beings, O Nanak, who wear such a thread around their necks. ਚਉਕੜਿ ਮੁਲਿ ਅਣਾਇਆ ਬਹਿ ਚਉਕੈ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ cha-ukarh mul anaa-i-aa bahi cha-ukai paa-i-aa. You buy the thread for a few shells, and seated in your enclosure, you put it on. ਸਿਖਾ ਕੰਨਿ ਚੜਾਈਆ ਗੁਰੁ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਥਿਆ ॥ sikhaa kann charhaa-ee-aa gur baraahman thi-aa. Whispering instructions into others' ears, the Brahmin becomes a guru. ਓਹੁ ਮੁਆ ਓਹੁ ਝੜਿ ਪਇਆ ਵੇਤਗਾ ਗਇਆ ॥੧॥ oh mu-aa oh jharh pa-i-aa vaytgaa ga-i-aa. ||1|| But he dies, and the sacred thread falls away, and the soul departs without it. ||1|| The rakhie is not a spritual string. The string given to the Guru from the Brahman was made so that he was made acceptable by God in his view. This is why Guru Ji said that the string will not go with you when you die, only the compassion in the heart for God will go with you. Why do you wear a Kara? What use is it if you dont get spritiual gain? You know the purpose of it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Rupz Ji, 1 - You have still not provided evidence to back up your 2 theories, please oblige. 2 - The thread is a ritual and does serve a spiritual purpose, it is an amulet, a charm, which is tied whilst reciting a mantar, it is not just tied by sisters, rishis, sadus, brahmans, sadhus etc.. tie a Raksha Bandaan to any who pay for one, it is a magic charm that is prepared over scriptures and tied with the objective of protecting the wearer. You shouldn't live so ignorently, Guru Gobind Singh has made us non conformists, the Dastaar represents a crown, showing that we show legiance only to truth and not man made things that contradict the truth (i.e. culture and ritual). We are to question everything, and study everything in our power. The Kara is worn because it is a hukum from Guru Gobind Singh, full stop. To compare a Rakhri to a Kakaar is stupidity and insulting. The Kara is a shastar and a handcuff to Guru's maryada, it represents Akaal, who is without beginning and without end, the same as the chakker in the Khanda. Singhs do not need magic protective threads, they have a kirpan and Guru Ji's protection. They love and protect to their sisters unconditionally, and not only their blood but all women irrelevant of background. Here, as you can't be bothered to research Rakhri, here is gentle push: Harpreet Singh Sat Aug 04 Since times immemorial, minorities all over the world have sought comfort through conformism. They have often adopted practices that are antithetical to their own beliefs. We need not go very far for examples. Guru Nanak, for instance, in the Asa Kee Vaar shows the conformism and resulting hypocrisy of Brahmins as they attempt to please their masters and maintain their caste hierarchy. ...They wear their loincloths, apply ritual frontal marks to their foreheads, and carry their rosaries, but they eat food with the Muslims. O Siblings of Destiny, you perform devotional worship indoors, but read the Islamic sacred texts, and adopt the Muslim way of life. Renounce your hypocrisy. Embrace the true Lord, and attain salvation. || 1 || The man-eaters say their prayers. Those who wield the knife wear the sacred thread around their necks . . . Wearing blue robes, they seek the approval of the Muslim rulers. Accepting bread from the Muslim rulers, they still worship the [Hindu] Puraanas. They eat the meat of the goats, killed after the Muslim prayers are read over them, but they do not allow anyone else to enter their kitchen areas. They draw lines around them, plastering the ground with cow-dung. The false come and sit within them. They cry out, "Do not touch our food, or it will be polluted!" But with their polluted bodies, they commit evil deeds. With filthy minds, they try to cleanse their mouths. Says Nanak, meditate on the True Lord. If you are pure, you will obtain the True Lord. || 2 || Raag Asa, M. 1, SGGS, p. 471-72 Clearly, conformism is unacceptable to Guru Nanak, who created a sovereign and a defiant race of human beings through his revolution. Unfortunately, some Sikhs today under the influence of Brahmanism have become conformists. As a compelling example, let's examine the festival of Rakhri that is celebrated today by many Sikhs who are ignorant of its significance. First, some historical background is in order. One of the two festivals celebrated during the bright fortnight during the Hindu month of Shravan is Raksha Bandhan, better known as Rakhri among Punjabi Hindus. It is a tradition with ancient roots. Bhavishya Purana refers to a fierce battle that raged between the gods and the demons. From news received from the battlefield it appeared that the demons were getting the upper hand and would gain victory. Indra, the supreme Hindu deity, summoned his teacher Vrihaspati to his court for advice. Indra's wife Indrani was also present. Before the teacher could speak, Indrani rose and said, "I know how to assure the victory of the gods. I give you my word that we will win." The next day was full moon night of the month Shravan. Indrani had a charm prepared as prescribed by the sacred texts and tied it on the wrist of her husband. And no sooner did Indra appear on the battlefield with the charm on his hand the demons scattered and fled. The demons bit the dust and the gods were victorious. It would appear that the Raksha Bandhan of today is derived from this belief. It is held that if a chord made according to the prescriptions of the holy texts is tied round the wrist of a person on the full moon day of Shravan it will ensure him good health, success and happiness for the year that follows. Rakhri has become a sacred festival for Hindus. Sisters tie amulets to brothers. Brahmin Priests tie them to the men of their congregations. Also on this day, it is noteworthy that the Brahmins change their sacred thread, janeoo, which Guru Nanak rejected at a young age because it symbolizes apartheid though its stratification of society. In Bombay, it is an occasion for Hindus for offering coconuts to the sea. Today Rakhri (literally meaning protection) has become popularized as an annual event in Hindu religion where sisters tie amulets to their brothers and seek the male's protection in exchange. The woman conducting aarti before her brother, a ritual Guru Nanak repudiates in the Kirtan Sohila, sometimes precedes the thread-tying ceremony. This is to the accompaniment of her enunciation or chanting of the following mantra in Sanskrit. Yena baddho balee raajaa daanavendro mahaabalah. Tena twaam anubadhnaami rakshey maa chala maa chala. "I am tying on your hand this Raksha, with which the most powerful and generous King Bali himself was bound; O Raksha, don't go away; don't go away." From a Sikh perspective, Rakhri is undoubtedly another expression of a patriarchal culture, however well intentioned. It is, after all, the brother who extends his protection to his sister, and the woman who agrees to place herself under the protection of her brother. She is devoid of power and must turn to a male for protection. While this is true in Hinduism, where the lawgiver Manu gives her a place next to animals, it is not the case in Sikhism. Guru Nanak, in his Asa Kee Var, raised the status of woman, making her equal to man long before Europe gave her the right to suffrage. Guru Amar Dass, the third Nanak, made her the head of entire congregations, giving her authority and power unknown even to the Occident at the time. Guru Gobind Singh, the tenth Nanak, gave her initiation of the Double-edged sword and made it mandatory for her to don a kirpan, an unlicensed arm asserting her sovereignty in a male-dominated world where the regime was willing to kill her for this defiant act. How do we reconcile the celebration of a festival so antithetical to Sikhism by Sikhs? Five hundred years of work by the Sikh Gurus to give women their basic human rights is undercut through such demeaning rituals imbued in Brahmanism. Does not the tenth Nanak declare: jab eh gahe bipran kee reet, mai na karoo in kee parteet? "When the Khalsa adopts Brahminical ways, it shall lose my trust." Guru Nanak demands complete sovereiThere is no room for conformism and compromises. Sikh wognty though actions. men worldwide should resolve to boycott festivals such as Rakhri that dilute the egalitarian message of Sikhism. What could be a better tribute that can be offered to our Ten Masters who fought to give women equal rights when the rest of the world turned a blind eye to oppression against them? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 The Kara is a shastar and a handcuff to Guru's maryada, it represents Akaal, who is without beginning and without end, the same as the chakker in the Khanda. Well ive been doing Shaster Vidiya and yes the kara is a Shaster much like the Kirpan and the Chakkar and are used on the battlefield. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 Someone mentioned here mentioned a theory as to the benefit that mixing non-gurmat and trendy things like Bhangra brings to attracting yout towards Sikhi. Aside from Sikhs no having to resport to his process for 480 years, this new manmat stategy will have it's obvious downfalls. When people start replacing gurmat with manmat, things go wrong. Guru's and Gursikhs lead strict lifestyles adhering to gurmat thinking without compromise for a reason, today we think we know better, and think it is time to evolve our Guru's maryada and move on with the times... Below is an example of this happening, incorporating culture and manmat in the name of Guru Ji. This beadbi of dancing around and singing boliyan in the presence of Maharaj certainly attracts people, but for all the wrong reasons. In the old days, people sat in awe oand extremem respect of their Guru, listened, prayed, and joined him in singing kirtan. I know many people that would to ashamed to act like this in front of their parents, let alone their Guru... This takes place in sunny Wolverhampton. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEw2OJdED8...;search=sikhism 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 Ok now I never told anyone to believe in this. Ive never told anyone to dance with kirtan, I dont know if your trying to make me look bad now but ive never said anything about kirtan. I think this topic has been taken out of context, totally. I dont share the same views as you. But in the old days Guru Ji went to drunk people to tell them about the truth, and to take out of their personal hell, and Guru Ji never said dont come near to him. But of course we have to respect Shabad Guru. Guru Ji reached out to people, Guru Ji given a hem so that they could follow. I fate this propaganda, and its got nothing to do with sikhism. Those people in that video fell victim to this propaganda. Theses types of videos are only spreading more and more hate. They have useds this video out of context. And us Sikhs ourselves are killing ourselves. And I would also read some of the comments which people have said. I used to love listening to this whole Khalistani thing before, I used to get soo fired up and angry just looking at hindus and muslims and who ever is non-sikh because i thought i was different. But I was getting more and more angry, saying why is it like this?! Guru Ji was right, there is no hindu no musalman. People call themselves Sikh, Hindu, Muslim, Christain or what ever, but they are all followers of God. I believe Guru ji used the words Hindu and Muslim as one thing, but Guru Ji said that all have lost the true path, which was Naam Jaapan. Firstly of all Sikhs dont believe in Idol worship, secondly we believe in One God. If people wish to follow a human guru then fine, why are you burning up? Sikhs are being converted to many other Religions its all God's Play. Please forgive me if im wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 Someone mentioned here mentioned a theory as to the benefit that mixing non-gurmat and trendy things like Bhangra brings to attracting yout towards Sikhi. u asked me for proof regarding a certain famous Singh "dancing". Can I ask you for contemporary proof regarding Singhs having 5 kakaars as opposed to treh mudra? There's plenty more to say regarding this......(bit late at the moment I'm afraid) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Rupz Ji, Don't upset, I am not inciting hatred towards anyone. I have the utmost respect for all faiths (in their puratan form) and effort to learn about them to increase my tolerance and understanding as instructed by my Guru. The point of the video was to show how people are creating new trends and ideas based on their own mat rather than Guru Ji's mat, there is nothing spiritual about men and women dancing together doing boliyaan and bhangra in Guru Ji's hazoori, or people worshioing stone idols when this is totally against Guru Ji's teachings. No one is spreading hate or being a fanatic, this is simply to highlight awareness of what is going on today, and what not to get caught up in. It was also supposed to draw a comparison to bhanra, rap, hip hop etc being discussed and mixed with Gurmat/Sikh discussions (this forum), where Mahapurkhs and Guru Sahibaans holy words are recited. No one is burning up, just highlighting mis-practice in Guru Ji's hazoori. Khalistan, Muslims or Hindus have nothing to do with this discussion, please don't jump to conclusions and go off topic. Beast Ji, What have the 5 kakaar, treh mudrai or my understanding of them got to do with this discussion? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 i'm making a thread..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 I don't see the connection between theories of Misledaars dancing and Treh Mudrai? If you want to talk about Kakaar you should start a new thread or look at archives. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 u asked me for proof regarding a certain famous Singh "dancing". Can I ask you for contemporary proof regarding Singhs having 5 kakaars as opposed to treh mudra? There's plenty more to say regarding this......(bit late at the moment I'm afraid) lol, when i made this post it was with a good thought in mind. but it was late at night and i was too tired to elaborate. and now i can't remember what the point was! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted July 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 sorry, delays again...........they busy n so am i, we definetely making some commitment to it though, i let u peeps know .hat aside the albums out next week, n again dont download good albums, specialist n truskool put 100% effort in the album, so its gonna be big summers here, they'll be some big releases to watch out for, so stay tuned........... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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