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Parnam Shaheedan Nu - 1984


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then make some efforts, find books & other historical material since 1981 onwards, published/written by neutral watchers, analise the same in a neutral way, perhaps, then you will find out the truth Javan-Mard ji.

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Gurfateh

Dear Bro Bahadur Singh Ji,

Sant Ji did some works to make some fantics among us weak.He had supprot of some Governmt sections which may still be suportinh his idelogy.

He was as such not anti Hindu but mentialty same as say present day Bajrang Dal.Ironicaly some people like that of Hind Smachar group made good lot of false propganda betwen Sikhs and Hindus and Sant Ji were not plotician and did not let his views go to Hindu and Indian masses.

Father figure of Das was in operation bluestar from the Indian Army.And das does not want to speak more that who trained his men but Indian Army people were very unhappy to attack the shrine.

role of Logowal,Badal,Tohra,so called Babbers who were hell bent to oppse this Sant should not be underestimated.They realy played spoil sport between Sant Ji and people who actualy used Sant Ji to elminate Akalis(Badal).but later Badal misguided Mrs Gandhi.

It is not as simple as it think.Sant Ji or Dal Khalsa entered shrine to dislodge Babbers on the active support of the eliment of ruling Party.but later Badal and co on our side and Hind samchar group on Hindus side created rift between this allienes.

anyway good thing is that presetn Amrinder Singh Govt. is repeating same thing by supporting Sant Samaj(including DDT) and to use us against Akalis.This time we should not let old bad things happen.Das just wanted to put neutral view as Army people themsleves did gave comnedation to courage mof the Singhs from Sant Ji's side but wanted that if they had served Inidan Army.

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Guest Javanmard

Thanks for your comments. It is totally true that the soldiers (a lot of them if not most of them Sikhs) not only intervened with a heavy heart but recognised the determination of the occupying militants. Most of them thought they were cleaning up the Golden Temple Complex from an act of sacriledge. One always has to hear what the two sides have to say.

And as you have clearly shown Bhindranvala was used by certain interest groups in India to destroy rival parties. But this doesn't excuse what h did I a afraid.

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His close friend and fellow student during Sant Kartar Singh ji's time, Gyani Takhur Singh(Patialawale), confirms that Sant Jarnail Singh was a Brahmgyani, not only that, but a Brahmgyani of the 8th level... (highest level I believe). Mata Sahib Kaur gave Santji darshan at Hazoor sahib and showed him all that was to happen.

If you don't believe in this, that's your prerogative.

To add to that, lot of other sant mahapursh from different sampardhava's ie- baba jagjit singh ji harkhowale, rara sahib beleive in sant jarnail singh khalsa was a mahapursh, he did what he had to do in hakum of Akaal Purkh- Defend the Faith.

All the criticism against him goes down the drain when one genuinely belives in the true sakhi of him getting darshan of sri guru gobind singh ji maharaj in hazoor sahib and got agya from satguru patsah to start up this dharam yudh morcha. No Budda dal or other Sampardha's supermacy over this issue matters over the hakum of satguru dasam patsah- sahib sri guru gobind singh ji.

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Guest Javanmard

N3O are you basing your opinion on a "potential" highly subjective vision of Guru Gobind Singh by Jarnail Singh Bhindranvala and the subjective opinion of others.

Subjective perceptions cannot compete with objective facts and these are very clear:

He desecrated Akal Takht.

Why on earth would he be allowed to live there if the Gurus themselves didn't and when the Jathedar Kirpal Singh aske him to leave? Was Jarnail Singh above the Jathedar of the Akal Takht (whome he recognised) in terms of authority?

If anything him and other people have created a whole generation of people who became disgusted with Sikhism. That is his legacy!

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Gurfateh

Das is making another neutral comment and could not be said as propogation of any idelogy but what we find in some wrong things in Indian politics.

If we read book of Bhangu we find that True Tat Khalsa guys also did use to force to defed thier idelogy against say bandais or say Hindalees(Harbhagat Nirnajaniees).

In our case we saw that Badal Dal during thier tenure in power at one place nursed some Babbers and on the other side gave power to Sant Nirnakaris.

Then congress faction,which is pro Taksal took over(via Gyani Jail Singh,Arinder Singh etc.)They wanted to use Dal Khalsa to weaken the both Badal Akalis and Sant Nirnakris.

So a sort of Sanatan Sikhs like Sants were attempted to be used to control what we could say Malech British Raj type pseudo Sikhs like Sant Nirnakairs(forefather of Singh Sabhaiyas) and Badal Dal(outcome of Singh Sabha).

But Badal ,longowal etc. were fast enough to swithc sides.Das could say that at that time instead of Sants,had Baba Santa Singh Ji being used by Congress then we could have differnt result but weather could Baba Ji had wanted to carry out such taks was to be seen.

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Gurfateh

in any movement when ever civilians are killed even in collateral damge,failure of it starts.

Das is worried for future as we see that Badal & co are again back with new people in the form of Asutosh Ji Maharaj as Sant Nirnakaris were brought in past and Amrinder Singh Ji are again using Sants to fight that.

anyway Sant Nirnakris Avtar Bani may not look bad to Tat Khalsa of modern time like Kala Afghana Sahib as Sant Nirnakairs are influneced by Amabala Sahib or vice versa.and in past they even asked to remove some portion if Panth dislike that.

anway if das is not mistaken Singhs did use force on civiilains as Baba Wadbhag Singh told them in Nassir Khans defeat of Jallandher(Bhagnu book) and perhaps during Ranjit Singh's time in Afghan Area to crush Tribals.

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Gurfateh

Many people within the govt of India and Congress have and had support for Sant Ji.In fact GOI did do lot of favoers but Sants accepted that as an offersing and not as bribe.Later when they asked for the return Sants siad that it was to be kept as what is best for teh Panth should be done.

At that time Badal,longowal etc. asked GOI to protect them from Sants and they themselves created the situation for an attack on Complex and rather incited GOI.

Baba Santa Singh remained loyal to congress and GOI as his predecesssors did during freedom strugle of India but Sants were not politician and were entraaped by Badal etc.

Regarding operation Bluestar,we need to understand that Mrs Sonia Gandhi did accept it as a mistake and apologiesed and thence only did Captain Amrinder Singh rejoined the Congress.

Congress respect for Taksal started from an instance at Ram Leela Ground comemorating 500 year of Marterdom Ninth Master.

Before that das will giove littel bit of family background of himself.

Das Grand Mother(Maternal) was from Arya Samji Khatri family of Sahiwal or Mongomaery district of WEst Punjab.Her Grand Father Lala Jhanda Ram had one Sikh brother(as in them one brother at that time was to be made a Sikh).From his linage we had S. Datar Singh Kamra.

His doughter was married to Col Ananad,Who was also a Sikh.He further had a doughter Maneka Anand(She is infact Maternal Aunt of das from very distant realtion and is animal right terrosits and BJP Leaderat present).

Actualy Mr Sanjay Gandhi only wanted to flirt with her but her Amry Man father forced him to Marry her(She had not very good relation with her mother in law and some people atrribute death of her fahter realted to her husband but that could be mere propogand of Anti Gandhi family).

So doughter in law of Mrs Gandhi was a Sikh.For getting faltery of her in that programe at Ram Leela ground some Congress Sikhs praised her to have matrimoniunal realtiuons with Sikhs.

At that time Sant Kartar Singh Ji told the crowd that we are not like Rajputs have done to have high posts in moghuls by marrrying thier girls.She has done not favour to Panth by having any matrimonial realtionship with them and doings of Panth can never be undone by Indians.

Had Panth not there then she shouled not have been PM but been traped in some Burqa(meanig that all Hindus would have been Muslims and she being Muslim may not have beomce PM).

Mrs Gandhi were impressed and made there after Sants of Taksal as thier guide in many matter due to thier olut spokeneess and grit to say truth and leadership qualties.Perhaps she had heart enough to use person,who were indeed creitcal to her.

That long frinedship was broken only due to actions of Arya Samjis Hind Samachar gruop and Badal on the either side and it was realy a Bad thing.

Bhai Ranjeet Singh Ji or Sant Ji were never allowed to be traped by CBI,till Mrs Gandhi had good realtioship with Taksal,(Case of Gurbach Singh Nirankaris death).It was again Badal and disgrunted Khatri elements of BJP which created problem(at that time RSS was ore with Congress then BJP).

Das is saying all that based upon listeing to various Sikhs and Hindus and officers who were part or had keen look on affrairs then and may be wrong.But das stillb elive that mnai tratior are Badal,Tohara or Longowal and BJP or Congress are better then them at least.Frogive das for mistakes but there is need to unity of AKJ,DDT,KALA AFGHANA,Sant Samaj,Sanatan Singhs among all to dislogde Badal fromk sgpc.

Indian forces were visible to occupy complex so we could remove them but these agents of jattism are lie green snakes and draing the resource of Panths for thier chairs.

All people das wants to unite are surly may have differnt interpetaion of Panth but are not Anti Panth so for that thyey need to unite and Anti Panth forces needs to be dislodge againa movemnt is needed,Help or RSS,BJP or Congress will be forethecoming if we start that movement.

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theres a speech where bhindravale said he would kill 50,000 hindus if the government of india does not return their bus , which the govt of india stole.

let me look for it

have u found this speech? i would be interested to hear it as personally i believe it does not exist. i think the speech u refer to was made at maddison sq gardens, nyc in 1986 by a canadian.

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bahadur sometimes you amaze me singh. Your an educated guy and a lecturer, surely you know the difference between a biased source and an unbiased one. KPS Gill was a notorious terrorist by everyones reckoning yet you quote him like hes reliable.

Can we also get pictures of those innocent people tortured by Bhindranvale's men?

bhindrawales men or people who just claim to follow him? does this justify the attempted genocide by india?

Try transforming one of India's major religious shrines into a fortress and ask yourself:"Is the army going to attack?"

try destroying a people, their language, culture, religion and way of life and then ask, are those people going to resist?

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Nowadays alot of people cry out about Baba santa singh taking money from the government, I would just like to remind those people that in the sikh diaspora, mainy of those who support khalistan have built their gurdwaras and run camps etc, claiming money and grants from their respective goverments.

Dude with all respect to nihungs santa singh was played by the indian govt to become the front man of their much needed requirement to get a known sikh to rebuild the takht. its not like he went to the govt and requested money. they contacted him as they needed somebody, and he fell for it hook, line and sinker. lets face it hes only human and can make mistakes, not the faultless demi god some nihungs make him out to be. i think bhindrawale was right in most things and support him a lot but i think he did do some wrong as well. don't have blind faith

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Just cos no-one in history has never converted harmandar into a fortress before doesnt mean we cant, change is great we should embrace change, however whilst i agree with the activities of Sant Ji i also know that their were many atrocities carried out by supporters who perhaps in their own way became radical, I dont believe the people who died in 1984 were radical, the radical years followed later on , but governement was also sponsoring this radicalism but it would be wrong to not take some of the blame, anyone who says sant should not have fought from inside harmandar is a slave to only doing what has be done before and they are unable to embrace change. Thanks. 8)

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Guest Javanmard

Converting holy sites into military functionalities is and has always been considered an offense. Temples, churches, mosques, gurdvare are places of worship NOT fortresses. To transform them into such especially when there is no need for it is an offense.In fact in international law it is considered a crime.

When al Sadr tried to convert the shrine of Najaf into a military functionality he was heavily condemned by the Shi'a clergy for that. It was, is and will always be unacceptable to do that. Especially in Bhindranvala's case because he had no reason to do it. If he wanted to wage war on the Indian government he should have done what other generations of Sikhs did before: use the Shivallik hills. Instead he used Akal Takht as a shield in order to exert cheap and nasty emotional blackmail. How disgusting!!!

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"Converting holy sites into military functionalities is and has always been considered an offense."

according to whom? what are the bungey for?

"....In fact in international law it is considered a crime."

There is no such thing as "international law"

" Especially in Bhindranvala's case because he had no reason to do it. If he wanted to wage war on the Indian government he should have done what other generations of Sikhs did before: use the Shivallik hills. ...."

I dont't remember him ever saying or implying that he wanted to wage war against the government - he would have been arrested and charged with treason. Interestingly, Sant ji was never actually charged with anything, even when they did arrest him once, he was released.

Unlike most of the forum users, I was there (in Amritsar) at the time. The attack on Harmandir Sahib was planned well in advance of June 1984 and fortifications only began when intelligence was received supporting this point. Sikh soldiers told of training exercises involving mock-ups of Harmandir Sahib's layout.

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Guest Javanmard

1.There is something called international law that is why there is an international court of justice and that legal issues between countries can be solved. If you bothered entering a university you would hear about. In doubt check this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law

2. The bungas around Harimandir Sahib were pavillions used by Sikh nobles and religious orders. The SGPC had them all destroyed. In any case they are situated in a civilian area.

3. You were in Amritsar: good for you! So were other friends of mine who tell me another story...

3. So you are trying to tell me that the Indian government had planned all this well in advance and that "Sant Ji" was not the cause of it, he just happened to be there chilling and that when he found out about the attack he decided to take it upon himself to protect the Akal Takht. Doesn't the Akal Takht have a jathedar? Didn't that sem jathedar ask Bhidranvala to leave?

It really makes sense now, thank you Sukhraj. Let me take my sunglasses because I have just been blinded by the Truth! 8)

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just found this article

Why didn’t Sant Bhindranwale wave his hands in the air?

I recall watching very rare footage of Sant Bhindranwale traveling to Bombay to address the congregation there, the scene was astounding. Arriving with a convoy of jeeps and trucks, flanked by numerous motorcycles on either side, with the police struggling to control the crowd as they gushed forward to catch a glimpse of him. The jeeps then stop at their destination, Sant rises from his seat, and is bestowed with thousands of flowers thrown at him, it looked as if a Prince had returned to the victorious Kingdom. This is Bombay we are talking about, the heartbeat of the Hindu community. If this was the reaction in Bombay, we can only begin to imagine what Sant Bhindranwale’s presence had done for the people of Punjab.

Yet some ignorant, uninformed oblivious individuals claim that Sant Bhindranwale did not enjoy any popular support, and headed a marginal movement that had no place in society. More than this, many even go to lengths to say that Operation Bluestar, the personification of decades of fascism, could have been avoided if Sant Bhindranwale had come out of the Akal Takht when the Indian tanks, planes and troops were ready to roll. The distressing thing is that this view is commonplace in many homes, Gurdware, intellectual discussions, news reports and radio debates.

Why? Because we are told by people who have a vested interest in suppressing peoples thought so that they continue to accept their down-trodden status. It is imperative for the Indian government to slander Sant Bhindranwale, because it was his spirit that initiated the dynamic surge towards freedom by the people of Punjab during the late Seventies to the early Nineties. However, we must not become targets of the Indian government and lose sight of reality by internalizing the view that Bluestar was initiated and could have been prevented by the ‘obstinate’ Sant Bhindranwale.

From a personal perspective, the need for this article to answer the title question has been long overdue. I have been itching to write this piece, since it is one of the most prominent questions ever asked when discussing Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and Operation Bluestar, but rarely receives an adequate reply. This is one question that some people (including many ‘Sikhs’) ask when attempting to malign the character of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, and in turn justify the genocide that occurred in the precincts of Harimander Sahib in 1984. Below are just a selection of prevalent views that are crudely used by people with tunnel vision, and the type of thinking that just barely hits the surface.

‘ He may have been a saint, but if he’d come out, the army would never have attacked’

‘He was the reason for all the death and destruction, his stubbornness desecrated the Akal Takht’

‘He could have saved thousands’

‘He just wanted to carve his name into the history books’

For all those who fall into this school of thought, here is a response:

The assault, which the Sikhs themselves call the Ghallughara (Holocaust) was not only envisioned and rehearsed in advance, meticulously and in total secrecy (Ram Narayan Kumar,The Ghalughara: Operation Blue Star - A Retrospect)* , it also aimed at obtaining maximum number of Sikh victims, largely devout pilgrims unconnected with the political agitation. The facts should speak for themselves.

 There was no warrant for Sant Bhindranwale’s arrest. There was no judicial verdict of guilt against any of the 11 accused who were on the government ‘hit list’. All weapons carried by Sant Bhindranwale and his entourage were licensed by the Indian government, so on what basis was the attack planned and coordinated? Sant Bhindranwale was not engaged in any criminal activity. Even after his arrest in 1982, no concrete charges were leveled against him. His only crime was that he lived a puritan way of life, and possessed the charisma to espouse everyone else to follow suit.

 Sant Bhindranwale declared weeks before the attack that an army invasion of the Golden Temple will not be tolerated, and repelled by any means necessary.

 The army shot first, drew first blood on May 31st, when the Central Reserve Police Force fired at the roof of the Langar Hall where daily congregations took place. Therefore Sant Bhindranwale had no choice but to defend its sanctity.

 Perhaps the most striking of all is that the Indian army had been practicing on a model of the Golden Temple and seeking expertise from the London based SAS in 1983, almost a year before SJ had moved into the Golden Temple. Clearly the attack would have taken place whether Sant Bhindranwlae was there or not, he just became an ideal excuse. Striking a blow at the heart of a whole community, to the place where they receive their strength and and inspiration was the real motive, Sant Bhindranwale could not let that strike take place. Dr. J. M. Pettigrew, a Scottish anthropologist, who spent much time in Punjab doing independent research on the Punjab problem, writes in "The Sikhs of the Punjab"

"The initial crime (Operation Bluestar) was calibrated and indeed had been planned for a year beforehand. The Darbar Sahib complex, a place of a great beauty, the spiritual and political centre of the Sikh way of life and of the Sikhs, as a whole, their historic home through years of invasion from the West, had its sanctity shattered. The army went into Darbar Sahib not to eliminate a political figure or a political movement but to suppress the culture of a people, to attack their heart, to strike a blow at their spirit and self-confidence".

Evidently, the sole purpose of Operation Bluestar was to destroy the Sikh morale, and force them into submission. If the army really only wanted to flush out those who ‘wrote and sanctioned death warrants’, then why did they choose to invade the holiest shrine on a highly religious day, when pilgrims were arriving from ever nook and corner of the globe? Punjab was littered with government intelligence throughout its anti-Sikh policies in Punjab, are we really lead to believe that the government failed to realise that it was a holy day?

 Why were 40 other historic shrines attacked? Was Sant Bhindranwale sitting in all of them? Did the people of Punjab miraculously clone 40 and put them in each one, which warranted the assult against them? Or was the army simply hell bent on destroying the psyche of the Sikhs.

 Sikhs have always fought battles in a defensive position in lieu of an offencive position i.e from a fort. Guru Gobind Singh Ji fought from the fort of Chamkaur Sahib, so how can anyone say this tactic was naïve and self destructive? Sikhism does not divorce saintly characteristics from those held by a warrior, the two are intertwined and create the ideal human eulogized by Guru Granth Sahib. Thus if the precincts of the holy Harimander Sahib had to be turned into a military fortress then no blasphemy or irreligious act had been committed, since it was spurred by self-preservation.

 The fact remains that the majority of deaths occurred AFTER the Akal Takht and the Golden Temple had been militarily secured and occupied, so why the bloodbath? Based on this, if Sant Bhindranwale had come out, are we really supposed to believe that the hell unleashed on the Golden Temple would have been prevented? A military operation, which human rights activists have denounced as "Genocide in practice." The statement of Devinder Duggal, custodian of the Sikh library at the Golden Temple testified that:

‘During those three days, more than 4000 people must have been killed….90% were pilgrims…children were asking for water again and again. The elders were suppressing their thirst to meet the needs of the children. A stage came when we just put a small amount of water to our lips to save ourselves.’ (Investigation Team : A. Rao, A. Ghose, S. Bhattacharya, T. Ahuja, N.D.Pancholi, Operation Bluestar : The untold story)

A.R. Darshi, a Hindu Secretary and Magistrate to the Government of Punjab stated that:

‘I saw these buildings about two weeks after the terrific bombardment which were raised to the ground. I was shocked to see the extent of cruelty and barbarity committed by the army on their own people.’ (AR Darshi, The Gallant Defender (Punjab, 2001) p. 112.)

 The attack was injudicious, avoidable, unnecessary and unjustifiable. Despite the presence of the Police Border Security Force (BSF), Army, Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF), Research Analysis Wing (RAW), the Third Agency, Indian Intelligence Service (IIS) and Black Cat Commandoes, National Security Guard, Special Frontier Force, the President’s Rule (which has the power to suspend the right to life for anyone merely suspected of ‘terrorism’), as well as the easily accessible Harimander Sahib complex and the tapping of all its phones, the Indian Government used the same weapons and men that it had used in the Indo-Pak wars just to get 11 men out of a small temple complex, the holiest Sikh shrine on earth.

 The number of murders that occurred in Rajasthan were many times higher than in Punjab. Why didn’t vijayanta battle tanks, howitzer helicopters, machine fire, shell, mortar with a personnel of 180, 000 troops led by a control room in Delhi march into Rajasthan instead of Amritsar? Evidently, it was not a law and order problem, it was a religious one.

 The government of India had been given red alert by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and Asia Watch, so why should we dispute Sant Bhindranwale’s decision to combat them?

 The Sikh nation repeatedly affirmed that they wish to remain in India, but only if they were granted human and civil rights. The most vocal being Sant Bhindranwale, who declared that ‘we will reside in India, but only if you treat us as your brothers.’ This a very cooperative settlement from a man dubbed as the most fanatical and uncompromising hard-liner India has ever seen.

 General Brar, one of the four chosen to lead, co-ordinate and execute the attack visited the deputy commissioner of Amritsar in April 1984, and conveyed his intentions of attacking the Golden Temple. The deputy commissioner warned that although he loathed the Sant, he will not be defeated with ease. Brar, arrogantly remarked that ‘when tanks rattle and planes roar, even generals quack in their boots’. Are you not proud that Sant Bhindranwale proved him wrong? ‘He fought back like a tiger’ said one political commentator.

 If Sant Bhindranwale had walked out waving his hands in the air, Sikh across the globe would have held their heads in shame and dismay. The one man who was leading the Panth, who had awoken a sleeping lion and spearheaded a revolution, epitomized the saint soldier of Guru Granth Sahib, come out like a coward? Sant Bhindranwale knew that the reputation, honour and pride of the turban was now resting on his shoulders, he had no choice but to fight. There was more than Sant Bhindranwale’s pride at stake, all of ours depended on it.

 This may seem controversial, but a lot of Sikhs would rather the Akal Takht come under attack than to see a foreign power invade and infiltrate it by appointing puppets who would ultimately kill the Panth through irrelevant ‘hukamname’ that create disunity and internal bickering. The Akal Takht is bricks and mortar, marble and gold, what it symbolizes is crucial to Sikhs, and that is independence and freedom of thought, action, speech and existence. We cannot let a foreign power take these away from us, particularly when they have overtly admitted that they want to destroy Sikhism root and. No son of the Akal Takht, especially those who have sworn to protect it (i.e Sant Bhindranwale, Bhai Amrik Singh and Co) can ever submit to a foreign ruler.

Like any other icon, Sant Bhindranwale’s impeccable and pure way of life has been tarnished by many groups, organizations and individuals. The sole purpose for this is simple, to dampen and quell any spirits that may be inspired by him. Nevertheless, what these people cannot conceal is that Sant Bhindranwale lived his life carrying the pain of every Sikh in India on his shoulders, and with it showed that Sikhs as a people were as formidable as their forefathers. Regardless of the whitewash to tarnish this lion’s name, his roar will echo in the annals of world history.

Sarbjit Singh

‘Soothing winds will once again blow in Panjab, the Kesri Nishan Sahib will be hoisted, flying high’

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Converting holy sites into military functionalities is and has always been considered an offense.

this makes me laugh I have seen this sort of debating technique on the islamic board website aswell, let me try it:

"Converting holy sites into military functionalities is and has always been NOT considered an offense"

i can merely say the opposite, it certainly is not offensive to me, in fact the sites of wars such as chamkaur sahib have been converted into gurdwara or holy sites, when the guru existed in the physical form he was stationed at anandpur and armies laid seige to the fort the guru was holy then also yet no-one considered his presence in a place which could turn nasty to be offensive, my guru can stand in the midst of the battle field and still be holy whether in book or physical form.

Temples, churches, mosques, gurdvare are places of worship NOT fortresses.

Akal takht is not a gurdwara it is one of the 5 seats of temporal authority it has never been a gurdwara. Where you get the idea that gurdwara can be pigeonholed into the same defintion as other places of worship, gurdwara is not a place of worship it is where guru lives, guru gives guidance from gurdwara we dont worship god we meditate on gods name.

In fact in international law it is considered a crime.

When al Sadr tried to convert the shrine of Najaf into a military functionality he was heavily condemned by the Shi'a clergy for that.

international law or civillian law has no meaning for sovereign people our god gaves the peoplehood of khalsa sovereignity he made us self-governing so international law can kiss my ass. No offence brother.

It was, is and will always be unacceptable to do that.

one of my favourites let me try it:

"It wasn't, isn't and never will always be unacceptable to do that"

Especially in Bhindranvala's case because he had no reason to do it. If he wanted to wage war on the Indian government he should have done what other generations of Sikhs did before: use the Shivallik hills.

indiqan government are guests on our holy sites they have no jurisdiction on the land where their is gurdwara, bhindranwale has gone down in history as the man who picked a fight with indian government and won this is said by those who despised him aswell so I agree you can have your own opion but the conclusion is the same rarely in the 20th century will you find a person who did exactly what they said.

Instead he used Akal Takht as a shield in order to exert cheap and nasty emotional blackmail. How disgusting!!!

now your just getting desperate. :(

Have a nice day amigos :D

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Guest Javanmard

Nicely written propaganda, some true facts and a lot of wishy washy dubious terminology, enough to make the first year university student feel guilty about eating chicken and get them to follow some student camp in the summer in the hope they might be part of the "84-Sikhi crew"...

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Guest Javanmard

Don't worry, my big ego and I are fine. Thanks for caring.

I stick to my view that Bhindranvala was no better than the Indian government and that they deserved each other. Only sad that innocent civilians had to pay the price for the extremism on both sides. The only difference between the militants and the army and police was the uniform.

I just noticed I had forgotten to give the link for the Human Rights Watch report which I think is pretty balanced:

http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/kashmir/1994/kashmir94-03.htm

It mentions human rights violations on both sides.

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