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Meditate and destroy


HeyDudesWassup
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The above statement is valid. But as lovers of God we Sikhs follow the path of devotion to Akaal Purakh. In Kaliyug devotion is the surest and safest way to reach the formless. Knowing the unmanifest source of innumberable universes is the achievement of a lifetime, but as the saints of Bharat have observed the path of jnana is dry it is compared to the sun which burns, Whereas Bhakti is the cooling sweet light of the moon. Jnana is quicker as it burns all sanskars, it burns you. The path of Bhakti is slower but half the fun is getting there.

HDW if there is no seperation why are you writing on this forum why are you here. I agree there is no seperation at an unmanifest level but there has to be a degree of seperation at manifest level to allow you to live your life. The aim of life is to be aware of this mystery whilst still retaining a small sense of Ego otherwise, if there is no seperation, you are gone, back from where you came.

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"HDW if there is no seperation why are you writing on this forum why are you here. I agree there is no seperation at an unmanifest level but there has to be a degree of seperation at manifest level to allow you to live your life. The aim of life is to be aware of this mystery whilst still retaining a small sense of Ego otherwise, if there is no seperation, you are gone, back from where you came."

I don't post here because I feel lost or I have something to attain. I post here for the enjoyment of it. What do you expect me to do with my free time? Maybe float to pluto for a popsicle or maybe meet up with some alien buddies on Mars and make marshmellows? j/k

I love Guru Nanak's way of love. I don't feel a seperation but I do follow my heart, when I sing out to the Universe I'm just singing from appreciation of life, not to reserve a seat in Sachkhand. I don't follow any scholars' interpretation of Sikhism either, I just go with what resonates in my heart.

You need an ego to post on these message boards and live life. Ego is all good as long as you know that you are the presence awareness behind it and not the struggling seperate self who seeks. Why seek for what you already are?

Old conditioned patterns of a mind made self still arise daily in my experience but I know that that is not what I am.

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I don't believe in a "God" either. I do know there is the Source from which all arises and dissolves into, there is no seperation.

Heydudewassap. There is a God according to Guru Nanak Dev Jee and that God is Vaheguru. Vaheguru is:

Ik Oankar Satnaam kartapurkh nirbhou nirvar akal moorat ajooni saibhang gurparsaad.

So either you are right or Guru Nanak Dev Jee is right. So who should it be, you or Guru Jee?

Dont take offence, but I'm going to go with Guru Jee on this one :D

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How this "His path" or his "devotees" when they profess to be Buddhists? A path which does not believe in A God.

my beloved veer,

What do the words "Infinite Paths" means when it comes to God?

Do you think that for you to understand, every realized person must present "God" in a way in which you are able to comprehend through comparing the definitions which you have read, understood. If you feel they must present God like Guru Nanak dev ji did so then therein lie your error.

Stop Comparing and declaring anyone path devoid of God. Once it is so that when you find God first, so then all Infinite Paths to him will unfold infront of you. Walk up the hill on ONE path and when you reach there you will see the infinite paths that exist from the valley below.

Stop fighting with Words, go beyond them and see that everyone is Seeking God.

Buddha Remained Silent whenever someone asked him of God, so tell me then, If one does not speak of God, does that mean they lack the realization of God?

If one does not point a finger and say here is your God? Does that mean they don't know where God is?

Does Silence equate to not knowing?

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I don't know which Guru Nanak Dev Ji you are reffering to but I'm gonna go with the one that I know. God is all there is.

Heydudewassap. There is a God according to Guru Nanak Dev Jee and that God is Vaheguru. Vaheguru is:

Ik Oankar Satnaam kartapurkh nirbhou nirvar akal moorat ajooni saibhang gurparsaad.

So either you are right or Guru Nanak Dev Jee is right. So who should it be, you or Guru Jee?

Dont take offence, but I'm going to go with Guru Jee on this one :D

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I don't post here because I feel lost or I have something to attain. I post here for the enjoyment of it. What do you expect me to do with my free time? Maybe float to pluto for a popsicle or maybe meet up with some alien buddies on Mars and make marshmellows? j/k

I was not making any judgements on why or why not you post, i do not have the right to do that. But I have the right to discuss statements you make on this forum because that is the whole point of a discussion forum. Don't justify your reason for posting, if you want to post, then post - do what resonates in your heart. the reason for writing what i did is pseudo-mystical statements like "there is no seperation" irk me. You may have had some experience which leads you to believe this But if we accept this statement then there is no difference between mother wife and sister obviously there is a big difference - but your statement: there is no seperation implies this.

I love Guru Nanak's way of love. I don't feel a seperation but I do follow my heart, when I sing out to the Universe I'm just singing from appreciation of life, not to reserve a seat in Sachkhand. I don't follow any scholars' interpretation of Sikhism either, I just go with what resonates in my heart.

Are you trying to imply that i am trying to reserve a seat in Sachkhand or follow some scholars interpretation of Sikhi. Because you wrote this below where you quoted me. Just because someone questions something you say you begin to get defensive and start to judge the other person. I find this quite rude. Also you write "i go with what resonates in my heart" - in the reply to my statement, why write this at all if you did not mean to imply that I do not follow my heart, and follow some sort of religious dogma or something.

My personal reason for believing that "knowing" God nowadays is impossible is

1. Due to the numerous amounts of sense bombardment we have thrown at us each day, the only way to negate this is to drown it in the love of God. In more peaceful times a seeker could know God because there would be less distractions.

2. The danger of false ego modification or pseudo knowledge. Which is knowledge that the Ego takes over for itself when the knowledge is fed in through the senses. Genuine experience of knowing something in this world is almost all the time mixed with thinking you know something because you have read it in a book or someone told you. True knowledge in internal, but external knowledge is useful because it can trigger the internal knowledge in a person. But 99% of the time a person takes in external knowledge and accepts it and thats it. This is why VEECHAR is important. Most people have pseudo feelings these days, in my experience, genuinely they cannot feel any true emotion, they feel what they THINK they should feel.

In kaliyug God can only be realised through love.

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^ A little on the defensive aren't we? all I got to say is you are trying to twist my post to fulfill your agenda. Go ahead, I dont care. There is no point argueing with folks like you, I learnt that a long time ago.

mom = wife = sister , look at how twisted your mind is. Of course they are equal beings but that doesn't mean you would have the same relation with them.

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What Agenda?

You don't seem to be able to discuss these adult topics in a reasonable way.

And you seem to have purposefully mis-represented the point I made about mother sister wife - what you wrote "mom = wife = sister , look at how twisted your mind is. Of course they are equal beings but that doesn't mean you would have the same relation with them." Is exactly what I was trying to point out to you how absurd it would be to say there is no seperation. I never mentioned anything about equality what are you talking about.

Look at what i wrote and read the part in Bold.

But if we accept this statement then there is no difference between mother wife and sister obviously there is a big difference

OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE

Read brother, read.

look at how twisted your mind is

I demand an apology for this quote, it is a reaction of anger due to the misunderstanding of my point. Can you accept your error my brother. Please brother look deep in your heart and search for the truth, i have nothing against you. I like to discuss that is all.

I made some criticism of your response, and instead of replying in a constructive way you try to say that i've got some agenda. Don't get offended its a mutual learning process, discussing, both parties learn if they are cooperative.

Old conditioned patterns of a mind made self still arise daily in my experience but I know that that is not what I am

If you are not your mind made self show me some compassion, why are you saying i have a twisted mind. People like you should not be affected by emotions (mental modifications) what does it matter what i say to you. You should be trying to help me seeing you have effaced your false ego successfully.

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I didn't bother to read much of your post

and then you say

Its funny that you take insult when someone points out screwy thinking

how can you point out or recognise my "screwy thinking" when you don't bother to read my posts. I have not made personal comments about you, or intended to insult you, but you continue to disrespect me. First by misunderstanding what I wrote in a post. Secondly by saying my mind is twisted and then saying I have screwy thinking.

PLease enlighten me of my screwy thinking, as I have stated previously we are here to learn. PLease do not just make offensive statements without backing them up

Its funny how supposedly broad minded people cannot accept people who think differentlyy from them. Instead of treating them with compassion or showing them why what they are saying is wrong, they insult that person by saying his mind is twisted or he has screwy thinking.

HDW has consistently failed to understand me and has made no effort to try. He even admits that he didn't read much of my post and still makes judgements about me. Do you review a book after you have just read half of it, anyone who did would be ridiculed.

I have no personal agenda against HDW, he seems like a good bloke, but his responses to my in essence pointless point has been dis heartening. Like I said we should question each other on this forum its the only way to learn. I can't stand this agreeing with everything, people should dis agree. But I am saddened that because of my dis-agreement with HDW he began to make insinuations against me, he began to question ME, not what i wrote. You do not know me, all you know is what I write, i can choose to be what i want in the form of the written word, you should argue against my words not against me personally. But you cannot even do me the small service of reading what I write.

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Are you trying to imply that i am trying to reserve a seat in Sachkhand or follow some scholars interpretation of Sikhi. Because you wrote this below where you quoted me. Just because someone questions something you say you begin to get defensive and start to judge the other person. I find this quite rude. Also you write "i go with what resonates in my heart" - in the reply to my statement, why write this at all if you did not mean to imply that I do not follow my heart, and follow some sort of religious dogma or something.

You asked me why I am here and I expressed my point of view, why do you automatically assume that I am implying that you aren't following your heart or are trying to reserve a seat in Sachkhand? Why the defensiveness? Remember ASSUMING makes an ass out of you and me (ass u me).

the reason for writing what i did is pseudo-mystical statements like "there is no seperation" irk me. You may have had some experience which leads you to believe this But if we accept this statement then there is no difference between mother wife and sister obviously there is a big difference - but your statement: there is no seperation implies this

Some statements may "irk" you, still I will express myself freely. We are all made of the same consciousness and there is no seperation from Source, only the mind made ego fiction feels the seperation. Just because we have different relationships with different expressions of Source doesn't mean we are not one. I don't know why you are trying to twist this with your statements. I think my point was pretty obvious.

BTW You didn't answer my question about whether or not you are your mind? If you think I insulted your "mind" then I am sorry.

This talk reminds me why I stopped coming to forums, I will stick with posting quotes and links.

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I request lalleshvari to post in this thread, in the past, he has posted excellent post on destination sachkhand and concept of grace of God/Guru.

without grace of Guru, one is separated, one can try to destory ego withinself alone as much possible, all attempts will go astray, concept of guru and shish breaks all the barrier of ego's, self centerness, self filled attitude, as gurbani says: true sikh is marjiva murid of guru.

Bhai Gurdas Ji Says: Murda Hoi Na Murid Gali Hov Na.

Without being Murda and residing in Gurudev heart and soul loosing one's existence during that course, one cannot reach there.

Gurmat Advait Marg is Gurparsadi Marg. One can read all the books, school of thoughts, knowning advait (god/energy is everywhere, even in his creation) from books and expereincing them on spiritual level is two different things. Expereincing them on spiritual level requires murshid/shabd Guru Mantar. As Bhai Gurdas Ji said, how many people self composed with thought of I am thee, went in astray instead of being mukht. There is stage to recite sohang sohang, ang bhram asmi, that stage is from bhramgyanis - nirgun parbham upasana not anjaan balaks like us.

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Grace for whom? The ego? Have you every inquired within and ever have you found the ego? Does it actually exist? If it doesn't exist then what is it that you are destroying?

Are you saying Ramana Maharshi, Buddha, Jesus, Nisargadatta are talking a bunch of BS? They never had Gurus or a Gurmantar. According to you, Source made a Universe of diverse beings and the only way for them to be self-realised is if they have murshid/mantar. This is a vlaid path but its not the only path. The Universe is diverse and one must see unity in diversity.

without grace of Guru, one is separated, one can try to destory ego withinself alone as much possible, all attempts will go astray, concept of guru and shish breaks all the barrier of ego's, self centerness, self filled attitude, as gurbani says: true sikh is marjiva murid of guru.

Bhai Gurdas Ji Says: Murda Hoi Na Murid Gali Hov Na.

Without being Murda and residing in Gurudev heart and soul loosing one's existence during that course, one cannot reach there.

Gurmat Advait Marg is Gurparsadi Marg. One can read all the books, school of thoughts, knowning advait (god/energy is everywhere, even in his creation) from books and expereincing them on spiritual level is two different things. Expereincing them on spiritual level requires murshid/shabd Guru Mantar. As Bhai Gurdas Ji said, how many people self composed with thought of I am thee, went in astray instead of being mukht. There is stage to recite sohang sohang, ang bhram asmi, that stage is from bhramgyanis - nirgun parbham upasana not anjaan balaks like us.

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Are you saying Ramana Maharshi, Buddha, Jesus, Nisargadatta are talking a bunch of BS?

Budda had Guru, and Gurmantar, I don't know what version of history you are reading but Buddha took atamik updesh and mantar from mahatama when he was inquiring his servant about old people, young people etc, and how life is outside his house. Then he went to mahatama and ask him what is sorrow? why this jiv suffers?

I am not saying you must have guru's or gurmantar from a guru. Mere mortals like us need gurmantar from guru/ shabad guru. I am not putting that limitations to karaks who are already liberated and come to this world to help human kind just like how doctor in a prison cell comes give remedy to the prisoners.

Unfortunately i think you are diseased with black and white mindset in spirituality. There is lot of grey area - expcetional cases. You shouldnt see things in spirituality- black and white.. you will miserably fail.

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I know I am not the mind so why do you think you are effecting my mind? I don't care what you say about my mind. I just do not wish to spend anymore time posting here as I feel it is a waste and not as enjoyable as I perceived.

* I just have a request to the mods to delete my userID or show me how I can go about doing so myself.

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Guest SAdmin

Stick to this forum. I like your links and posts. It doesn't waste too much time because you're sharing something all the time. We help each other when we share.

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BTW You didn't answer my question about whether or not you are your mind? If you think I insulted your "mind" then I am sorry.

According to sikhi you must use the buddhi part of your mind, discriminating intellect, to destroy bad thoughts (bad in the sense of not god centred.) This is done through shabad veechar and naam simran. I use my mind to read, and I use my mind when I work. The mind is a tool. I use my intellect to try to instruct my mind on what is real and unreal, and to focus my senses on naam simran. I don;t know whether i am my mind or something else, all i wish for is to be able to have the strength to repeath gods name.

I know I am not the mind so why do you think you are effecting my mind? I don't care what you say about my mind. I just do not wish to spend anymore time posting here as I feel it is a waste and not as enjoyable as I perceived.

Does your mind not feel enjoyment and non-enjoyment. If you are not your mind why do feel that you are not enjoying posting as much you were before. What part of you has changed, so now you feel as though you are not enjoying posting. Only the mind could be that fickle, If you are not the mind, you have to be beyond these emotions.

HDW please do not leave the forum you do post some good links. I admit I may have purposely been forthright in some of my earlier posts, but like i said it's not personal. There is no need to throw a tantrum because people disagree with you. I thought you was a broad minded individual, but now I see that any small infringement upon your area of beliefs, results in personal attacks and tantrums, this is not the sort of behaviour i expect from someone who reguraly posts some quite informative posts.

Grace for whom? The ego? Have you every inquired within and ever have you found the ego? Does it actually exist? If it doesn't exist then what is it that you are destroying?

Without the grace of the Guru you cannot do anything, please believe this for your own benefit, he himself binds and liberates. These statements of yours are not helpful, from the point of view of limited individuals 99.9% of people there is an ego which has to be destroyed only when it has been "destroyed" does a liberated souls realise that there was nothing to destroy. Where is your compassion.

one last point regarding those things you said about I am not trying to reserve a seat in sachkhand and I just follow my heart. There is one saying that i am particularly fond of "the louder they spoke of their honour the faster we counted the spoons"

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