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Was Guru Nanak God himself?


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"problem is that alot of Sikhs have a Hindu phobia because of which they try their best in distencing Sikhi from Indic religions while trying their best to portray Sikhi as an off shoot of Semitic religions"

Yes indeed, it is all too familiar to hear (western born Sikhs, particularly from Canada and the UK) argue until blue in the face that Sikhi is not an Indian Religion and that Sikhs are distinct from Indians - what utter trash!

As you point out, other 'Abrahamic' communities like Muslims and in particular, Christians in India are having a field day with their evangelical conversion efforts - I recall an interesting thread not too long ago about Christians singling out "Jatt Sikhs" in particular - it's not even been a hundred years since the British left India and Punjabi Sikhs have already forgotten their not so distant past owing to their Khalistani wet-dream fantasies fuelling more and more Hindu phobia!

Christian Missionaries have always had a field day with Sikhs - back during the Raj, it took 4 affluent Sikhs and a Granthi from Amritsar to convert to Christianity before Sikh leaders took note of this situation! A Granthi from Amritsar - what a trophy that must have been for the evangelical Christians of the time!

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Well it seems there is discussion into whether Guru Nanak Dev ji was God himself.... if there is discussion about it then people are wondering if he was or wasn't Only God exists...Gurbani is ve

maybe i am getting confused here... but surely gurbani explains this clearly.... there is 'only' God...nothing else.... only god takes form, then leaves form...he comes as a tree, a person, a

I am sorry, but I must say, we take things literally. We fail to know the esence of things. Sahib Jee, what makes you think, He can not manifest Himself through a living being? He has been doi

Gurbani and Bhai Gurdas vars might seem that they are declaring Guru Nanak to be God but this is not the case. I don't have time to translate every shabad here but I can give one example.

Sabh Tay Vadda Satgur Nanak Jin Kal Rakhee Mayree

This tukh means:

Satgur is greater than all, Nanak (says), he protects me.

Gur Nanak Jin Suneaa Paykheaa

It means:

One who has listened to and heard Nanak's Guru (shabad, God)

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Gurbani and Bhai Gurdas vars might seem that they are declaring Guru Nanak to be God but this is not the case. I don't have time to translate every shabad here but I can give one example.

Sabh Tay Vadda Satgur Nanak Jin Kal Rakhee Mayree

This tukh means:

Satgur is greater than all, Nanak (says), he protects me.

Gur Nanak Jin Suneaa Paykheaa

It means:

One who has listened to and heard Nanak's Guru (shabad, God)

LOL, for someone who always crys for others to look at prof sahib singh's steek, you seem to have very little, if any, knowledge of viakaran.

If you are going to make up arth of bani, please provide reference to a steek written more than 10 years ago. Faridkot, Sant Ameer Singh's steeks, taksali arth, sahib singh's steeks, bhai veer singh's steeks and gyani harbans singh's steeks all show that the arth you are doing have no basis.

Either learn some basic viakaran, or please shut up.

I have a hard time figuring out what is more fishy, how you make up these arth, or where you and your naastik crew came up with 5.5 million to buy the building on bramsteele road.

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LOL, for someone who always crys for others to look at prof sahib singh's steek, you seem to have very little, if any, knowledge of viakaran.

If you are going to make up arth of bani, please provide reference to a steek written more than 10 years ago. Faridkot, Sant Ameer Singh's steeks, taksali arth, sahib singh's steeks, bhai veer singh's steeks and gyani harbans singh's steeks all show that the arth you are doing have no basis.

Either learn some basic viakaran, or please shut up.

I have a hard time figuring out what is more fishy, how you make up these arth, or where you and your naastik crew came up with 5.5 million to buy the building on bramsteele road.

This doesn't have anything to do with viakaran. It has to do with putting vishraam. Where do you put vishraam plays even greater role than viakaran itself. Prof. Sahib Singh is alright.

Namastang

I will post about sargun and nirgun some other time on what is sargun and what is nirgun. How can I give reference to steek when steeks are wrong? Let me give you example of mistake by Prof. Sahib Singh.

ਕਬੀਰੁ ਪੂੰਗਰਾ ਰਾਮ ਅਲਹ ਕਾ ਸਭ ਗੁਰ ਪੀਰ ਹਮਾਰੇ ॥ ੫॥ {Page 1349 of Guru Granth Sahib Ji}

Prof. Sahib Singh does translation as:

ਮੈਂ ਕਬੀਰ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਞਞਾਣ ਬੱਚਾ ਹਾਂ, (ਤੇਰੇ ਭੇਜੇ ਹੋਏ) ਅਵਤਾਰ ਪੈਗ਼ੰਬਰ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਸਭ ਆਪਣੇ ਦਿੱਸਦੇ ਹਨ । ੫।

Above translation is wrong because it breaks person from direct link with God and connects to deh.

Proper arth is:

ਪੂੰਗੜਾ – ਪੁਜਾਰੀ

ਨੋਟ – ਪੂੰਗੜਾ ਦੇ ਅਰਥ ਦਰਅਸਲ ਪੁਜਾਰੀ ਹਨ, ਪਰ ਵੇਖੋ ਕਬੀਰ ਸਾਹਿਬ

ਵਲੋਂ ਉਚਾਰਨ ਸ਼ਬਦ: -

ਕਬੀਰੁ ਪੂੰਗਰਾ ਰਾਮ ਅਲਹ ਕਾ ਸਭ ਗੁਰ ਪੀਰ ਹਮਾਰੇ ॥੫॥

ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਪੰਨਾ ੧੧੩੬

ਕਬੀਰ ਉਸ ਅਲਹ ਰਾਮ ਦਾ ਪੁਜਾਰੀ ਹੈ ਜਿਹੜਾ ਸਭ ਦਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ, ਪੀਰ ਹੈ।

ਉਸ ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਵਲ ਇਸ਼ਾਰਾ ਹੈ। ਉਹੀ ਸਾਰਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ

ਆਪ ਹੀ ਪੀਰ ਹੈ।

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If you are going to make up arth of bani, please provide reference to a steek written more than 10 years ago. Faridkot, Sant Ameer Singh's steeks, taksali arth, sahib singh's steeks, bhai veer singh's steeks and gyani harbans singh's steeks all show that the arth you are doing have no basis.

Either learn some basic viakaran, or please shut up.

I have a hard time figuring out what is more fishy, how you make up these arth, or where you and your naastik crew came up with 5.5 million to buy the building on bramsteele road.

We don't make up aarth of bani, we just understand what Gurubani says. I answered some of your questions in the previous post but others will be answered here. I have never read Ameer Singh's teeka and taksali aarths are as wide open as grand canyon. They say that each tukh cane have many many aarths. Sahib Singh's steek is good but he wasn't SatGuru. If his aarths go against core Gurmat philosophy, then they out to be corrected. Gyani Harbans Singh just copied others made minor changes. Bhai Viir Singh also wrote that meat was served in langar during times of Guru Angad Ji. He also said just mool mantar was recited when Amrit was prepared. Do you agree with those things of his? If no, then I don't have to take his aarths as final authority. All of the above vidvaans did aarths when we were starting to understand Gurbani. They were bound to make mistakes as they weren't God. Now we must keep studying Gurbani and make sure that aarths don't contradict with other shabads. What is more important? Prof. Sahib Singh's or Harbans SIngh's version of viakaran or Gurmat sidhant? I take Gurmat sidhant but viakaran is very important. Gurbani is written in poetic manners so that is also very important. Even Prof. Sahib Singh said that his teeka has shortcomings. Telling someone to shut up is not an action of a wise person. Gurmat tells you to be rude? What use if viakaran if a person is lost in viakaran alone instead of understanding message of Gurbani? Gurbani says:

ਮਿਠਤੁ ਨੀਵੀ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਗੁਣ ਚੰਗਿਆਈਆ ਤਤੁ ॥

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੇਵੇ ਫਿਕਾ ਬੋਲਣਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੇਵੇ ਜਮ ਪੁਰਿ ਬਧੇ ਮਾਰੀਅਹਿ ਮੁਹਿ ਕਾਲੈ ਉਠਿ ਜਾਹਿ ॥੧॥

ਰਸਨਾ ਫਿਕਾ ਬੋਲਣਾ ਨਿਤ ਨਿਤ ਹੋਇ ਖੁਆਰੁ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਿਰਤਿ ਪਇਐ ਕਮਾਵਣਾ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਮੇਟਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੨॥

We must not speak foul and understand viakaran from Guru Granth Sahib Ji itself. It is easy to tell others to 'shut up' when the battle seems to be losing with gyan. Brother! This is not the GurSikh way. Please don't just look at viakaran, there are other important ascepts as well. One big one is vishraam. Vishraam is actually the biggest one. Viakaran can't help you much if you put wrong vishraam. Viakaran also depends on the location of the word, word used and word besides it. It is just like the English languahe. One time a word is noun, other time it is adjective so same thing with Gurmukhi. It depends on the whole quote.

ਗਿਆਨ ਵਿਹੂਣਾ ਗਾਵੈ ਗੀਤ ॥ ਭੁਖੇ ਮੁਲਾਂ ਘਰੇ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥ ਮਖਟੂ ਹੋਇ ਕੈ ਕੰਨ ਪੜਾਏ ॥ ਫਕਰੁ ਕਰੇ ਹੋਰੁ ਜਾਤਿ ਗਵਾਏ ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੀਰੁ ਸਦਾਏ ਮੰਗਣ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਤਾ ਕੈ ਮੂਲਿ ਨ ਲਗੀਐ ਪਾਇ ॥ ਘਾਲਿ ਖਾਇ ਕਿਛੁ ਹਥਹੁ ਦੇਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਾਹੁ ਪਛਾਣਹਿ ਸੇਇ ॥੧॥

Does above shabad apply to those who claim to be sants and don't do kirat? I am just asking question here.

Let me give you examples of vishraam and viakaran. I will explain one tukh but you will have to explain other.

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਵੈ ॥

Above tukh is easy one for everyone to understand so I have used it as an example to get dasam duar in the process of opening up. Now I will apply vishraam and do aarths of tukh below:

If we place the comma after Bin Gur Mukat like shown below:

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ, ਨ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਵੈ ॥

The aarths become --> There is muktee without Guru, a person doesn't come or go.

If we place the comma after Mukat Na as shown below:

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ, ਆਵੈ ਜਾਵੈ ॥

Arths become --> There is no muktee without Guru; individual goes into reincarnation.

ਗੁਰੁ ਈਸਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਰਖੁ ਬਰਮਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬਤੀ ਮਾਈ ॥

Since you are wise and scholar, please provide aarths and proper vishraam of quote above and explain what it mans. Also explain how viakaran works in that shabad. Thank you very much in advance.

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If you are in Toronto, we can arrange for meeting on weekend at a Gurduara and discuss viakaran and vishraams. We must not have hatred but seek Gurmat gyan and understanding of Gurmat so that no one can say there is contradiction in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. How would you feel if someone said Guru Granth Sahib Ji has contradiction and the basis was aarths done based on someone's personal view of viakaran? Kaums that have success are the ones that prepare for future in advance. Our kaum doens't even prepare when the axe in on the head. That is why we are stuck at 25 million and even 90% of those do bajjar kurehits. We don't want to understand Gurmat to get gyan and to spread gyan. If someone tries to spread gyan, we run after the person with a hammer asking why he / she spreads Gurmat. What was need to prove to British that we aren't Hindus? The reason was that we didn't understand Gurmat so we did karam kaandi activities and there wasn't muuch difference between us and Hindus. Muslims say Mohammed is the way to God, Christians say Jesus is, Hindus say their religion is, Gurmat said truth is the way to God. Gurbani says God doesn't take avtaar so it is manmat to say Guru Nanak was God. Guru Nanak was the light that God sent to enlighten the world about dharam karam and stop them from karam kaand.

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Gurbani says the following about God:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਓਹੁ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੧੩॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਧਨੁ ਸੰਚਿਆ ਸਾਬਤੁ ਪੂੰਜੀ ਰਾਸਿ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਰਗਹ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਸਾਬਾਸਿ ॥੧੪॥੧॥੨॥੧੧॥

ਕਰਿ ਪੰਜੀਰੁ ਖਵਾਇਓ ਚੋਰ ॥ ਓਹੁ ਜਨਮਿ ਨ ਮਰੈ ਰੇ ਸਾਕਤ ਢੋਰ ॥੨॥ ਸਗਲ ਪਰਾਧ ਦੇਹਿ ਲੋਰੋਨੀ ॥ ਸੋ ਮੁਖੁ ਜਲਉ ਜਿਤੁ ਕਹਹਿ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਜੋਨੀ ॥੩॥ ਜਨਮਿ ਨ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਰਹਿਓ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੪॥੧॥

ਸਚੁ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਤੁਮਾਰਾ ਤਖਤਿ ਨਿਵਾਸੀ ॥ ਆਇ ਨ ਜਾਵੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ॥੩॥

ਜੈਸੀ ਮੈ ਆਵੈ ਖਸਮ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਤੈਸੜਾ ਕਰੀ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥ ਪਾਪ ਕੀ ਜੰਞਞ ਲੈ ਕਾਬਲਹੁ ਧਾਇਆ ਜੋਰੀ ਮੰਗੈ ਦਾਨੁ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥ ਸਰਮੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਦੁਇ ਛਪਿ ਖਲੋਏ ਕੂੜੁ ਫਿਰੈ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥

Who is that Khasam that Guru Nanak got Baani from? Please try to understand whole of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Not one shabad individually. When doing aarth, make sure the aarth doesn't cut another shabad's philosophy. Those who are fully committed to Gurmat are called atheists but those who try to show and prove contradictions in Gurmat are shown to be holy. What a scene the world is. What could Guru Granth Sahib Ji do if the Sikh is at fault?

ਕਬੀਰ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੈ ਜਉ ਸਿਖਾ ਮਹਿ ਚੂਕ ॥ ਅੰਧੇ ਏਕ ਨ ਲਾਗਈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਂਸੁ ਬਜਾਈਐ ਫੂਕ ॥ ੧੫੮॥

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I have a hard time figuring out what is more fishy, how you make up these arth, or where you and your naastik crew came up with 5.5 million to buy the building on bramsteele road.

Arth situation has been cleared up. Now I will clear up building situation.

No one came up with 5.5 million dollars. Gurduara has a mortgage payment just like any other building. That building is worth a lot more than 5.5 million but Gurudara Trustees got a good deal because the Church had gone bankrupt. There was a Harvest Church there. Other than that, sangat chipped in cash to get the Guruduara opened. People picked up loans and gave in whatever they could. Some input $20,000 some did more or less. Gurduara is there to promote Gurmat philosophy and often runs classes related to Gurmat.

Schedule for Gurduara services is linked below:

Gurduara_Schedule.zip

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So in other words it took you 4 (very long) posts to clarify that you still don't understand any viakaran and that your arth still have no basis. the word Nanak in both of the tuks you quoted is clearly a noun and thus refers to Satguru Nanak Dev Ji. If it was supposed to be translated as 'guru sahib says'..., then there would not be an aunkur underneath the kaka. I've read your posts in the past and you commonly throw away arth done by the teekakars of faridkot teeka and taksali arth based on them not being based on viakaran, but your last couple of posts show that it is you that has absolutely no knowledge of viakaran as nanak vs. nanak(i) vs. nanak(u) is the probably one of the most basic aspects of viakaran.

The reason why taksal's mahapurkh do so many arth at times is because they believe that bani can be interpreted by viakaran, but is not bound by it and thus different vishraams and different pad chhed can be done to obtain different arth which expand on the sidhant of the shabad. You on the other hand believe that viakaran is the only way to do arth, yet you place vishraams on to spots which violate the most basic of viakaran rules. You said that vishraams play a greater role than viakaran when doing arth; however, if you believe that viakaran is the only source of defining a word, then vishraams must be dependant on viakaran. If you don't believe this, then you are nothing but a hypocrite, as you throw away arth done by taksali mahapurkh (both amritsar and damdama sahib) based on them using different pad chhed and vishraam to do arth instead of solely relying on viakaran, even though you've now shown that you manufacture the arth you want to create by violating viakaran rules.

Once again you've shown yourself to have no credibilty; you go against what you preach time and time again.

If you are going to reply back to this post by posting 4 more replies which don't have any relevance to anything I wrote, then I'm not going to reply back to you anymore. Flooding a message board with irrational, offtopic posts might convice people of your propoganda on sikhsangat or on bramsteele road, but I'd like to think that the people at this message board are a little smarter than that. I've wasted enough time as it is replying to you.

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So in other words it took you 4 (very long) posts to clarify that you still don't understand any viakaran and that your arth still have no basis. the word Nanak in both of the tuks you quoted is clearly a noun and thus refers to Satguru Nanak Dev Ji. If it was supposed to be translated as 'guru sahib says'..., then there would not be an aunkur underneath the kaka. I've read your posts in the past and you commonly throw away arth done by the teekakars of faridkot teeka and taksali arth based on them not being based on viakaran, but your last couple of posts show that it is you that has absolutely no knowledge of viakaran as nanak vs. nanak(i) vs. nanak(u) is the probably one of the most basic aspects of viakaran.

The reason why taksal's mahapurkh do so many arth at times is because they believe that bani can be interpreted by viakaran, but is not bound by it and thus different vishraams and different pad chhed can be done to obtain different arth which expand on the sidhant of the shabad. You on the other hand believe that viakaran is the only way to do arth, yet you place vishraams on to spots which violate the most basic of viakaran rules. You said that vishraams play a greater role than viakaran when doing arth; however, if you believe that viakaran is the only source of defining a word, then vishraams must be dependant on viakaran. If you don't believe this, then you are nothing but a hypocrite, as you throw away arth done by taksali mahapurkh (both amritsar and damdama sahib) based on them using different pad chhed and vishraam to do arth instead of solely relying on viakaran, even though you've now shown that you manufacture the arth you want to create by violating viakaran rules.

Once again you've shown yourself to have no credibilty; you go against what you preach time and time again.

If you are going to reply back to this post by posting 4 more replies which don't have any relevance to anything I wrote, then I'm not going to reply back to you anymore. Flooding a message board with irrational, offtopic posts might convice people of your propoganda on sikhsangat or on bramsteele road, but I'd like to think that the people at this message board are a little smarter than that. I've wasted enough time as it is replying to you.

What do you mean there is no credibility? You have credibility? Is that why you couldn't even do vishraam on Gur Ishar Gur Gorakh Barma Gur Parbatee Maaee and explain it? It is easy to take cheap shots at others than prove something properly. Let me post the quote that we are discussing here. Lets see if there is aunkar underneath kakka to see if Nanak says or not.

ਸਭ ਤੇ ਵਡਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਕਲ ਰਾਖੀ ਮੇਰੀ ॥

Gold! There is an aunkar below the kakka and there is also aunkar below Satgur indicating it is ik bachan. So who is doing aarth based on viakaran and who isn't? You counted the # of posts I made but didn't read them because you would have understood otherwise.

You don't understand viakaran or vishraam yourself yet you make allegations that I don't. Satgur also has an aunkar which indicates that it is for God alone. I learn Viakaran from Guru Granth Sahib Ji itself. You also failed to read the shabads I posted because the Satgur Mayraa Sdaa Sdaa shabad also has an aunkar in the end and it is without a doubt for God. How do feel about your viakaran skills now? You see the road but don't see the stop sign to stop. You see the road which is correct but you must also see the red light or stop sign or will be violating traffic rules. Same way, you must not just make viakaran into aunkar for this, sihari for this, etc. etc. and ignore the vishraams.

ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਿਨ ਸੁਣਿਆ ਪੇਖਿਆ ਸੇ ਫਿਰਿ ਗਰਭਾਸਿ ਨ ਪਰਿਆ ਰੇ ॥ ੪॥ ੨॥ ੧੩॥

Above tukh also has aunkar under Nanak and aunkar under Gur which indicates that Gur is used for God because it is ik bachan. Do you know what ik bachan is?

You are telling me that I don't know viakaran but it is you who lacks understanding of viakaran. So now show me how viakaran rules are violated in the tukhs i have done aarths of? You don't know viakaran yourself, that is why you didn't even try to translate:

ਗੁਰੁ ਈਸਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਰਖੁ ਬਰਮਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬਤੀ ਮਾਈ ॥

Who is going off topic by bringing in bramsteele and sikhsangat and how the Gurduara opened up? You don't even realize what you are saying. Please take a deep breath and then read carefully. You said my 4 posts were a waste. I mostly used Gurbani tukhs there. Reading Gurbani is a waste for you?

What do you like to read? Koka shastra?

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ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਆਪ ਪਰਮੇਸ਼੍ਵਰ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਲ੍ਯਿੋ ਸ਼ੁਭ ਵੰਸ਼ ਪ੍ਰਧਾਨਾ

Sri Guru Nanak is Parmeshvar, taking 'Avatar' in the highest and auspicious lineage [bedi].

[From Sarbloh Granth aka Manglacharan Puran, page 489, Vol. 2]

In Adi Guru Granth Sahib, it is written:

ਭਨਿ ਮਥੁਰਾ ਕਛੁ ਭੇਦੁ ਨਹੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਅਰਜੁਨੁ ਪਰਤਖ੍ਹ ਹਰਿ ॥

...So speaks Mat'huraa: there is no difference between God and Guru; Guru Arjun is the Personification of the Lord Himself. ||7||19||

Furthermore in Bhai Gurdas Ji's varan it says:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਉ ਹੈ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਸੋਈ ॥

Guru Nanak is the True Guru and is God Himself.

So this concept of the Guru being Parmeshvar Himself [in sargun saroop] is in all of our scriptural literature.

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  • 3 years later...

To answer this question, let us see who or what was Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj. The thing is, we humans try to judge everything from our limited vision and understanding.

To know if Guru Nanak was God, let us see first what is God.

God is a highest level of superconcious energy. And this energy, is like like the waves of radio or televisión, this energy is spread everywhere, and still we can not see it or feel it.

But in order to listen the news or music, or see the images contained in that broadcasting, we need an adecuate device and connected to an input current switch(or batteries), so to say, enjoy from what we hear or see then.

So, the batteries or connection with and input current switch is being alive, and then, the system which transforms those energy waves into sound and images is, called Nam Simran. Wahiguru is present everywhere, but still we can not take advantage from its presence, and continue to be unhappy.

This is what Gurmukhs are, they have their connection with the current switch, and are always tuned themselves in the frecuency of those waves.

This is what when the Bani says: Prabh Jee baseh Sadk ke rasna...Prabh Jee baseh, sadh ke hirdey. They are the receivers of Akal Purukh, so whatever they say or do, is nothing but, the news being broadcasted from the station of Sach Khand, by the director of that channel, which as said befor, is no other than Satnam.

We ignorants with our childish behaviour, we think that the radio by itself or the television set, are the real thing....but the reality is that the Gurmukhs are not the body, they are just "receivers" of that finest Celestial Music called Shabad or Nam.

Let us keep one thing in mind, when we say Gurmukhs are one with God and are God, in the spiritual sense...that does not mean, they start displaying supernatural powers for our comfort, or to please and impress us.

No, no no...that is not their purpose, maybe the incarnations of gods come time after time, to establish righteousness...and make this world a better palce; so to say, that the cycle of births and deaths go on continuing...

But the role of Gurmukhs is not as such...they come to remind us, that the cause of your continous suffering in the cycle of eighty four, is because you have forgotten your true Father Satnam, your true Home, Sach Khand, and thus you are wandering aimlessly in this mayavee, transient and perishable creation.

Out of their utter humility, though they are Satpurkh themselves, they tell us, that your true Father has sent me to create the sense of discrimination in you, so that you may love Him only, so that you may once again regain your original consciousness, that you are not only a human being, but you are a spiritual being, going through human experiences.

You are also entangled and entrapped in the net of bodies, karmas and mind all that implies...like jaat paat religion land and so on.

Your Father(Satnam) has sent me also, to give you a weapon, to fight with all these enemies and kill them, to free yourself totally, in order to return back Home( sach Khand) with Me(Gurmukh).

And this weapon is none other than Nam or Shabd, got as Gurparasd.

In this Gurparasd, Wahiguru Himself has hidden Himself. That is why the Bani says: Har Simran meh, Prabh aap Nirankara. That almighty Akal Purukh, is contained in His Simran, and makes Himself manifested, through His Simran.

This is quite understandable and agreeable, if the power of Wahiguru was not in His Simran....how could we ever vanquish and defeat mighty enemies as mind... as kal ...as the net of karmas ...the 5 vices: kam krodh lobh moh ahankar.... which would be impossible otherwise.

Everything is clear in the Bani, it is we who look outside. Precise directions are there in the Bani, for us, for our benefit only. But we as moorakhs, and mugadhs, look in the oppsite direction.

The Bani says do only one thing(Mil Sadh sangat, bhaj kewal Nam; awar kaaj tere kiteh na kam)...and we weak humans do not do that, but do many other things...and waste our lives after stones, when the diamods are right there within us.

Aisee kirpa moheh karo, Sant Charan, hamaro maatha.

Edited by harsharan000
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  • 10 months later...

There is just one god that is ekonkar satnaam..one who knows him expeiences him merges in him and become god like..but god jn itself is one formless invisible all pervading beyond everything we know.

That is true what you say, but the soul which you mention, that merges in Him, is also a particle, or a ray, of that formless, invisible, all pervading Wahiguru.

That is why the merging is possible, if the soul, was made of any other material so to say, it could never ever even think of merging in Him.

For example, the mind is subtle and invisible for us, but it is not of the same essence of Wahiguru like the soul, so naturally it can never merge in Him.

The soul´s relation i to the Lord, is like that of a ray to the Sun.

We can see, the rays emerge from the Sun, go and fall on the different surfaces of the creation, but at the end of the day, wherever they may have gone, they alone, without any accompanies, they return and merge in the Sun, their origin...

It is our agyanta, which make us feel we are this or that, or, from here or from there. And to remove this agyanta, Guru Jee, tells us to use the soap of Naam Simran, to erradicte it totally, thus know our true origin,and return there as soon as possible, with His Grace at all times ....

Waheguru.

Edited by harsharan000
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The Sukhmani Sahib tells us:

Nanak, Sadh, Prabh, bhed na paee .... Nanak, see no difference between the Sadh and the Lord

When Wahiguru Akal Purukh assumes human form, He is known with several names: Bhagat, Sadh, Sant, Gurmukh, Braham Gyani, Guru Sahiban, Satguru, Guru....

Further on, Dhan Dhan Satgur Sachay Patshah says: Gur Parmeshwer Iko Jaan, jo tis bhavai so parwaan.

But above al let us keep in mind, the body of Guru Nanak, as well as of the rest of Guru Sahibans of Bhagat Janas, are not the Lord.

Because the body is just a continent, which contains the Nam or Shabad, in each of its atoms, means they are fully Shabad. But we as humans, as we can not see Wahiguru with these our physical eyes until we reach higher levels of purity within.

So Wahiguru, knowing our limitations, He graces us to have the Darshan of His sargun swaroop in that blessed human body.

We love that swaroop of Guru Jee, not because of anything, but because the Shabad itself is manifested in that body for a particular time being, though maybe....

So mahima is of not of the body, but, of the real essence of Wahiguru in that particular body, which otherwise is made of the same 5 perishable elements like ours...

That is why it is said, the real Guru is the Shabad, and the real disciple, chela, sikh is the soul or dhun....

Neither the gross body of the Guru is the True Guru, neither our gross body is the sikh, because one day, both will decay and die.

It is the soul/dhun which merges in Satnam Samunder Shabad Guru.

Waheguru.

Edited by harsharan000
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joth roop har aap guroo naanak kehaayo ||
The Embodiment of Light, the Lord Himself is called Guru Nanak.

thaa thae a(n)gadh bhayo thath sio thath milaayo ||
From Him, came Guru Angad; His essence was absorbed into the essence.

a(n)gadh kirapaa dhhaar amar sathigur thhir keeao ||
Guru Angad showed His Mercy, and established Amar Daas as the True Guru.

amaradhaas amarath shhathra gur raamehi dheeao ||
Guru Amar Daas blessed Guru Raam Daas with the umbrella of immortality.

gur raamadhaas dharasan paras kehi mathhuraa a(n)mrith bayan ||
So speaks Mat'huraa: gazing upon the Blessed Vision, the Darshan of Guru Raam Daas, His speech became as sweet as nectar.

moorath pa(n)ch pramaan purakh gur arajun pikhahu nayan ||1||
With your eyes, see the certified Primal Person, Guru Arjun, the Fifth Manifestation of the Guru. ||1||

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