tSingh Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Gurfateh Shahi ishnans are taken by all the different akharas at the most auspicious times during the kumbh. i.e its when the whole akhara goes for ishnan at an alloted time. Whats so great about it? Sadh-sang, sanatan sadhu reeti, satkar to the sants, opportunity to perform prachar, etc etc. Furthermore as Sri Guru Granth Sahib makes clear, among water ganga jal is sresht, just as among trees chandan is sresht. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Vaheguroo http://www.sikhitothemax.com/Page.asp?SourceID=G&PageNo=&ShabadID=6&Format=2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Silence, so whats your point, that Sant Harnam Singh is 'bina changai karam'? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 (edited) Gurbani says that Ganga jal is Gobind Naam. Bhairao, Fifth Mehla: It brings millions of desires to fulfillment. On the Path of Death, It will go with you and help you. ||1|| The Naam, the Name of the Lord of the Universe, is the holy water of the Ganges. Whoever meditates on it, is saved; drinking it in, the mortal does not wander in reincarnation again. ||1||Pause|| It is my worship, meditation, austerity and cleansing bath. Meditating in remembrance on the Naam, I have become free of desire. ||2|| It is my domain and empire, wealth, mansion and court. Meditating in remembrance on the Naam brings perfect conduct. ||3|| Slave Nanak has deliberated, and has come to this conclusion: Without the Lord's Name, everything is false and worthless, like ashes. ||4||8|| Edited March 20, 2010 by chatanga1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 also the sakhi of Gangsar Jaito should tell you sadhs something about Ganga ishnaan as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 Gurfateh As you like Chatanga. You've already made it clear that you think that the Nirmalas and presumably therefore Taksal, Rarewale Sants, etc to be a joke. But your use of gurbani here misses the point - a hindu at that time, and still now, believe that ganga jal purifies paap and/or gives moksh (just as some feel that one can get mukti by simply chhaking khande da amrit). Guru Maharaj is teaching us that naam is the real means of obtaining purity, the precursor to moksh. Nowhere above have I stated that Nirmale believe that ganga jal removes paap or gives moksh. Yes gangasar jaito sakhi is there, and so is Guru Maharaj's taking ishnan at different tiraths on the ganga 'bhaati bhaati ke tirath nhaanaa'(Bachittar Natak), with asthans commemorating their ishnaan and their prachaar...pretty much what the nirmale do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvalasingh Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 (edited) Ragi Balbir Singh singing the shabad tsingh is mentioning -> Translation -> http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=20131 Edited March 21, 2010 by jvalasingh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 Maff Karna but if Guru Maharaj ji were staunchly against ishanan at tirath. You wouldn't see amritsarovar at Darbar Sahib and sakhi of premi kohra and famous leper sakhi at darbar sahib. Nobody is claiming tirath ishanan can get you mukhti or is mahan over naam simran. But I have news for bhaaji/peenji belongs to gurmat/manmat club "NO ITS NOT SIN OR MANMAT" to have a ishnan at tirath asthan. so get over your hyper-tension/parnoia over sants taking ishnan at tirath. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 sants are given various seva, ishnaan at tiraths is one of them. When normal people do ishnaan, they don't exactly contribute positive energy. Sants help keep such places spiritually pavitter. Although having darshan of a sant is far bigger than going to a tirath, b/c darshan of such sants is equivalent to darshan of tiraths. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 (edited) Gurfateh As you like Chatanga. You've already made it clear that you think that the Nirmalas and presumably therefore Taksal, Rarewale Sants, etc to be a joke. But your use of gurbani here misses the point... Yes gangasar jaito sakhi is there, and so is Guru Maharaj's taking ishnan at different tiraths on the ganga 'bhaati bhaati ke tirath nhaanaa'(Bachittar Natak), with asthans commemorating their ishnaan and their prachaar...pretty much what the nirmale do. firstly tsingh ji, dont be so full of yoursself to assume what i think. I have never called any of the above a joke. how does the gurbani miss the point ecxactly? It seems spot on to me? I think it was Sant Gurbachan Singh who told of the tiraths begging for Guru Ji's darshan, not the other way around, that Guru Ji went for their own kalyaan. Anyway the message was quite clear about the Guru's taking ishnaan at tiraths and it isnt the reason that you are foisting on us. Why did Guru Ji create Guru Ki Tribeni and Kirtapur ? So you could go to Ganga? What can Ganga recieve from the Sant Mandli when Guru Ji already placed his charan there? Edited March 22, 2010 by chatanga1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 sants are given various seva, ishnaan at tiraths is one of them. When normal people do ishnaan, they don't exactly contribute positive energy. Sants help keep such places spiritually pavitter. Although having darshan of a sant is far bigger than going to a tirath, b/c darshan of such sants is equivalent to darshan of tiraths. is this the same with darshan of Guru Granth Sahib as well? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Gurfateh 'gurbani misses the point' - No, I didn't say that. I said you, not gurbani, have missed the point in the way you haved used the quotation. I apologise if I seem 'full of myself'! I assumed that you think the Nirmale are a joke based on the words you posted on this forum a couple of weeks ago which were 'udasis are a joke. nirmale not far behind'. I was taking you on your word! t 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 ok then i have missed the point. how exactly ? what gurbani says is very clear. can there me any room for misinterpretation of the shabd? yes some time ago i did say the udasis have become a joke and the nirmalas are not far behind. That was based on your balancing of gurbani with vedant. But please dont only take me on my word when it suits you. And if you can, please answer the questions that have been posted in this topic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Gurfateh, I've answered all your questions in previous posts earlier. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 is this the same with darshan of Guru Granth Sahib as well? It is Guru Sahib who heavily promotes the darshan of sants. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 It is Guru Sahib who heavily promotes the darshan of sants. accepted, but what I asked was something different. As you have stated that having darshan of Sants is bigger than going to Ganga, I ask you this question in the same vein. Yes or no answer please. Is having darshan of Sants greater than having darshan of Guru Ji? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Why did Guru Ji create Guru Ki Tribeni and Kirtapur ? So you could go to Ganga? What can Ganga recieve from the Sant Mandli when Guru Ji already placed his charan there? Tsingh ji, sorry I missed your answer to this even tho I checked all posts several times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 accepted, but what I asked was something different. As you have stated that having darshan of Sants is bigger than going to Ganga, I ask you this question in the same vein. Yes or no answer please. Is having darshan of Sants greater than having darshan of Guru Ji? Darshan of Guru ji is supreme. But your question seems somewhat pointless b/c Guru ji himself does maha ustat of sants. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) Why did Guru Ji create Guru Ki Tribeni and Kirtapur? So you could go to Ganga? What can Ganga recieve from the Sant Mandli when Guru Ji already placed his charan there? If, as you seem to believe, that Guru Maharaj created these guru-tiraths to prohibit ishnan in any other water source...then Guru Maharaj would have made a point to not have taken ishnan at the ganga or any other location. Bachittar Natak and the itihasik asthans suggest otherwise. Guru Ki Triveni is to demonstrate (as I keep reiterating) that in terms of actions that produce purity the sangat of the Satiguru is obviously superior. If a Sikh feels they can benefit more from the ganga jal, yagya, vrat, etc than they can from Guru darshan, then Guru Maharaj is not their ishtadev and they're not treading the path of Gurmat. But no one here has ever said this! This is what has been said: Verily the sadhu sang is prayag raj to paraphrase Gurbani. The kumbh is saadh sang. It takes place at the ganga. The saadhs do ishnan. A further point I made is that Guru Maharaj does not deny the superior purity of ganga jal itself as a substance. For example, if someone states 'this beautiful chair is like a throne of pearl' the similie can only work if the throne of pearl is accepted as something beautiful. So when Guru Maharaj states 'so girhee gangaa kaa neer' (p.952) (that householder is as pure as the water of the ganga), the householder's purity is qualified by comparing it to the acknowledged purity of the ganga neer. Kabir ji states of his mind's purity 'Kabeer! man nirmal bhaiyaa jaisaa ganga neer'. The criticism in gurbani is for the yatra to the ganga which is merely 'sansaar ke kaamaa' - worldly action - or the belief that vrat, niyam or ganga ishnaan alone is an effective practice. Edited March 23, 2010 by tSingh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Let me write down what I heard in diwans of Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji (Rara Sahib wale): 1. Doing Ishnan in Tiraths DO erase paap but Tiraths (including Ganga) canNOT give mukti. 2. Tiraths (including Ganga) do erase paap of normal man and provide pavitarta/purity by a devta/devi assigned to that Tirath. 3. Tirath devta removes the paap of bathing persons by taking their paap on his/her own shoulders. 4. After some time, the devtas gets enough paap on his/her shoulders; and can therefore no longer provide the purity to bathing persons. 5. These Tirath devtas do get purity and shed the paaps on their shoulders (which they got from people bathing in them) by touching the feet of Brahmgyanis (Anyone who is One with GOD). 6. Due to 4th and 5th point, Kumbh-Mela started taking place regularly (e.g Maha-Kumbh after 12 years etc.) so that Brahmgyanis from far places come and take ishnan in Ganga and provide Ganga the required purity so that it (Ganga) can continue to erase paap further from the people taking bath in them. From the above points, it is quite clear what Gurbani says and what history says (that many Sants visit and take Ishnan in Ganga) are in sync. It is ignorance to say that actual Sants (or true Brahmgyanis) go to Ganga for their betterment; in-fact they (True Brahmgyanis) go their for the betterment of Ganga and for the people who have faith in Ganga. So, taking bath in Ganga is not Anti-Gurmat but relying on Ganga for Mukti is definately Anti-Gurmat. Moreover, after around 5000 or 10,000 years (I forgot exactly) in Kalyug these devta providing shudi/purity/pavitarta to Tiraths will run from earth; they will abandon their Tiraths and then no longer Tiraths could provide Shudi. das 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Darshan of Guru ji is supreme. So there is really no need to go for Ishnaan in Ganga is there? You can go for darshan of Guru Ji or failing that darshan of Sants. If, as you seem to believe, that Guru Maharaj created these guru-tiraths to prohibit ishnan in any other water source...then Guru Maharaj would have made a point to not have taken ishnan at the ganga or any other location. Bachittar Natak and the itihasik asthans suggest otherwise. A further point I made is that Guru Maharaj does not deny the superior purity of ganga jal itself as a substance. I have alreday stated the intention of Guru Ji going to tiraths. Bachitar Natak does not suggest otherwise. Listen to what the Sants say about this. I dont deny the purity of Ganga Jal. I just beleive Guru Ji when he says that the real Ganga Jal of kalyjug is Gobind Naam. That is in no way denying that the Ganga Jal is unholy. Do you beleive that the status of Ganga and tiraths have the same importance in Kalyug as the 3 before? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Maybe they just went to meet the other sadhus and have a laugh, swim, relax etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvalasingh Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 As ali g says, "its about going out there, having a laugh, and getting some exercise most importantly" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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