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10 Questions on Sikhism From Muslims / Ex-Sikhs


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Gurfateh

6. What is a Just War in Sikhism?

Which done to protect others then to attack others.

Sikhism is often presented as a peaceful, non-violent religion.

it goes by non vilance till all peacefull means fail

However, it has a concept of Dharam Yudh, which is loosely translated as “Just Warâ€.

no it is war for justice rahter War for porecting Dharma or rithousness.So far Arbeic is not leanr by pseudo Muslim like you and you try to tranlate Sanskrit.Strange bu acceptable.

In this, Sikhs believe that war can be initiated as a last option, and the motivation cannot be revenge.

When we see this in practice however, we can see that very rarely has a Sikh War been any different to any other war fought on behalf of misguided religions : For Land, Nation and Resources.

As per Islam of yours Riba(interset) is sin.

but many Muslims goes to Banks,so Islam has failed or Hypocray is there.

Pork can not be eaten till grave situiatuon comes yet many eat pork and drink.so waht si fuss abvout this.

Examples of this include :-

The forceful passing of a resolution to cede Water and Electricity Boards to Punjab Control in the region

The murder of Indian Police officers in 1982 – 1983, in revenge

Bhindrandales Murder of two nirinkari Gurus in 1981

Bombing of Cinemas in Delhi in 2005

Bombing of Air India Flight 182

Most people will realise that these examples cited appear far from “Justâ€. Often, they appear to target civilians. If such action is justified according to these principles, then on what basis?

AS per your Islam,you keeps on targeting Druce,hindus,Jews,Pandiits in Kashmeer,Philipines,Indinasia(Anismist) where ever it lives.and even to fellow Treu Muslims,This seems to be just.

Das would like say that often you Islamic state of Pakistan sends your very own circmusenced pigs in hide of Lion to my Land and they do sin the name of Sikhs.

Recenlty we killed one such Punjabi fidydeen possing as Sikh in Kashmeer.

Yuo are to blamed.yuo do that on Hindus or other Sikhs and dress up like Sikhs.As you guys do not eat Jhatak ie non Halal meat or Pork,yuo poose as Veggises in Gurudwaras.

Remember Sikh can eat Halal in your country.Thios things are too much and to protect,to fix your evil design it is OK to let you rest in peace or else if you are left you will incesare the quta of sins.

We have no enimty with you.Allah guides us to fix evil and Allah's glory works in us.

If the Gurus are false Prophets, the Scriptures inaccurate, and the concepts and precepts erroneous, then how can Sikhism be used to take life unjustly?

Well was Rasol(SWAS) anyway not up to the mark that there are brothals in Lahore?Are you sure that in Islamic countires Adulatray does not happen?And all adultarey is punshed by female being stoned to death?Das is avoiding to be more harsh.

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Gurfateh

7. How can God Create himself?

God in uncreated.

According to Guru Nanak Dev, he claims that “God himself told me that he is self-createdâ€.

Das told you to study your Arebic first before comiung to other Languages.

Term is self existing.Sa(self)Bhan(existing).

Does not Allah is the same.Does not this true that Allah can not have son,nor Allah has motehr or Father.

do not insult Allah.Do not tell lies in glory of Allah.

How can God be subject to laws and constraints of his own creation?

yes God is not bound to send you in hevan even if you to good or bad things,Weather you be Muslim or not,weather yopu folow Holy Kuran or not.

Concepts such as time, form, shape, etc, are constructs of God. As an unlimited entity, how can God be subject to limited constraints, such as “creatingâ€.

god manifests in all.In you in me,in pig and in qibla.All is God.As space can not limt God,limit of God is in pig as it is lamb.why do not you eat pork then?

Surely, as God, he is outwith all such concepts. To ask how God is “made†is to misunderstand what God is.

to say God follows promised made to any human via nay book is makeing God,the salve of creation by self.god makes the rule and can destroy them and can alter them to.Rules were by God as in Holy Kurans,anbd then they are changed by Same God vide Gurbani.It hapned before vide Taurait,Jabour and Anjeel.Allah can change anything ever dyanamic Allah.

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Gurfateh

8. Why can Sikh women not Divorce?

who said that they can not?

by the way are you aware of the differance between the Talak(divoce givne by male) and Khulla(one givne by female).

Only in the casse of if Man thorws the wife out by simple saying Talak for 3 times then only does she get Mehar(securit deposit by man before marrige).while when Man creates hell for her and she wants to save herself by Kulla,Mehar is confisicated?

Can you tell that why can not people once divorce can not remarry as per you creed?

why does if Father in law rapes the doughter in law,she becomes mother of her own Husband and has to stay with her Father In Law as wife?

Sikhism still does not give the right of divorce to its adherents except in extreme circumstances, and even then since it is not legislated within Sikhism this is decided by Western or Hindu Courts.

sikhims tells to avoid divorce to both male and female.Why you say femaloe only are not allowed? forgoottan that gender bias is endmicu to you creed.Any way do you want to prove that Islam encrouages divorce?

If it is so,then it is shamefull for you.Did Rasool(SWAS) ever divroved?

Is it OK to keep name as mohamad and do not follow the Suna(deeds) of Rasool(PBUH).

This is mentioned in many sources, and some quotes from Sikhs are as follows :-

“In the case of broken marriage, divorce is not possible according to the Sikh religious tradition. The couple can, however, obtain a divorce under the Civil law of the land.â€

divorce is not encouraged and that emplies to both male and female.yuo had adverse bias for femle so brouthg female in between.

Of more concern is how Sikhs refuse to even consider divorce, leaving the spouse trapped in a loveless marriage. Take this example from the Sikh Spectrum Magazine :-

should das gives some views from some Muslim magzine rather some misinterpetaion from holy Kuran that after war Female prisioners are forced to marry victoriuas(as per us we are told be beold them as mother or doughter).Bandis rape is justify.Froced marrige is OK.Child Marige is OK(as per you Hazrat Aysha were sub adult).Do not qoute any magzine as authanci thing.

When two souls become one, there is no duality between the way a husband and a wife think. Whatever they do, they do it together. A divorce, in such a case, is inconceivable.

It is not OK discourage diverce but it is Very good when Arebic Sheiks come to poor Muslims and marry tiher doughter who are minor.pay 5000INR or 500PNR and spend one night and then divoce.

It is prostitution and child abuse in name of miususe of divorce.May be some of you sister could have underwent this sin by arebic guys.more happens in AP of India and Sind of Pakistan.should das say this while generalising it with whole of the Islam?

It is incredulous that anything calling itself “the modern religion†still does not emancipate women and give them independence.

you are paranoid with women freedom as you do not give them.Divorvce is discourged both for female and male.and Reason Islam does not allowe remarrige to divorcees is just a way to discourge the same.We alowe divoce to remaary.

Our sprit is divorced to God and when we marry we slaveged.

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yo sikh2islam or woteva ur jankrow name is.....u r one hell of a stupid parasite.....go marry ur cousin and dont post any more stupid crap....u r dumber then dumbo and no one likes u ur like borats next door neighbour so go hav fum in the tub with ur i pod mini u noob

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Gurfateh

9. How can Sikhs Claim that there are “many paths to Godâ€, then he Punishes those whom do not adhere to Sikhism ?

This tendency of your type of Islam,and is seen in world over and for time.We say in Hindi that person who gets blind rainy season,when it is grren,you green forever.

Had this not been then idol of Manat still been at Mecca,Ram Temple,Krishna Temple,Shiva Temple,Bamiyan budha all would ahve reamained.

Our Guru actualy made a mosques for Muslims.in contrasts,And in recent times when fundmentailists idolators were breacking mosques our Sikhs protected them.Shamfull on you part.

Our Faith tried to show the true way of Allah to those who were Anti Allah and then did not attacked mosques but people like you will encoirage Sikhs to do so.

It is claimed Sikhism is non-discriminatory, and that everyone should love each other as human beings, with no-one having a variable status, no-one being “high or lowâ€. His statement is as follows :-

“In Sikhism everyone is equal. All people of different colour, religion, caste, creed, race and sex are equal in the eyes of God. No one is high or low. All are children of God created by God and God loves them all.â€

All are one as God is in all.and God is Rab Al Almeen.Sarbeswar Hai,God is Lord of all.Sarb Passe Hai,God is at all side.

However, the Guru’s own teachings portray a different version of events. :-

Favouring of those in Khalsa

Khalsa is the baptizing of Sikhs, who take an Oath to promote and preserve the five Ks of Sikhism. These Sikhs are to be considered to hold a higher status over that of ordinary persons, and thereby this exposes a hierarchical system.

did you coooked this thing or are you misguided?

Khalsa is state of mind when self mid does not exists and the body may appear but in mind,mind if God exists.God self guide that body to works God want to happen.

That god uses that body as tool to serve self manifestaion in unioverse.

Quotations regarding this brotherhood include :-

“he who recognises the One God and no pilgrimages, alms-giving, non-destruction of life, penances, or austerities; and in whose heart the light of the Perfect One shines, - he is to be recognised as a pure member of the Khalsa†Thereby, if we are to believe this Guru, and by proxy the beliefs of Sikhism itself, then God, through the Gurus, considered those persons inferior whom :-

Engage in Pilgrimages

Fasts

Worships Idols

Are thereby considered inferior in Gods eyes (according to the Gurus).

Wow!

Lahaul Ibla Kuwat!(Let Power of Iblis lay off).

Do you ahve some work or you mind is the facory of devel.

god only goes to pilgrimage,god only worship slef in idol,God only does fast.who are we to interfere.

There are Marks fo the Khalsa that Khalsa will stop givng donation(what you call Khairat) as we do not have anything of us so who are we to do any thing.That servcie is done by God to self.Say tommorwo you develop AIDS or HIV,we will not donate mony to you.The monteray service which will apprantly come to you is help God,Serve self.We have term service or Seva and do not belive in donation or Dana.

for us it is to do with ego.Do you not know that ega and Hasad(envy) are biggest bad things in Islam also.We are told to not to have Duja Bhav ie thinking other is diffewrnt from you.

Pilgrimage we do not go as we find god every where,We do not worship idol as we find serving universe is wroship.

We do not keep fast as by that we may think that we do and ego comes and that can not affect God at all.God as you mentioned is limitless and does not has to do be bounded by our action.

If we go by your logic,as per Islam idolworshippers,pork eaters or say interest spender are inferior to Muslims as per you false interpetaions.Of you false Satanic master,who takes you off the ummat of Allah and Rasool.

In first Class yuong girls only cover thier head and when they grow old and are in collage they have whole jilbab.so as per your logic,young girls are inferiror as they do not wear Jilbab.

After becoming Khalsa there is no need left for the ritualism and those who are yet to reach that state are on some other stages.all is by will of God and same God in them and us.They do as god wants them to do and we do as Allah wants us to do.

From where does term inferior comes.Say if we join militray and don uniform and as rule have gun or say as after being docter have mediacl instruments in out hands.That makes us more service oriented towards the people who are not miliartay men or docter,we need to deem ourself as their servent.We are servent and we serve our master in them.And you say we have superiorty complex.

That complex is there in you biased opinion.

In addition to this, those who eat meat, those that cut their hair, and many other tenets of Sikh faith that are violated, God will punish them through re-incarnation, even though these people are also following a path (as they perceive it ) to God.

Who said that meat eater will be reinacarnated.Das eats both pork and beef.God only wants anyone to be Sikh,then a person becomes Sikh(like das became Sikh from Hindu,Had das not been emplyed with intelligence agency of India,Das would ahve married to his Muslim girlfriend who was ready to convert to Sikhism,but /she had some realtive in Pakistan and Indain govt may not have liked it).

In Sikhs claims that there are “no chosen peopleâ€, why must people adhere to Sikhism to be saved? Why must they take the Khalsa ?

People do not have to chose Sikhism.to whom God wants to be salved while being alive and one with God,is sent to GuruPanth,what you call Sikhism.

Main trouble comes when we say I,you or his,when we fight over books or men(Guru ,Avtar or Prophet).We find any other thing in existance other then Allah(do shirk).When we find Allah omnly exists by will of Allah we became Sikhs.who so ever sees such things by will of Allah in Gurbani and in life of Gursikh.he bcomes like that.

Only faith in world,where follower himslef/herslef occupy the sapce of Guru,Deemed as one with God.

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Gurfateh

10. Why is Sikhism Not Evangelical?

who says that?

Das himself is a convert.amnay of your Muslim from central Asia are gettng to faith.Yuo may not be able to name thier republics.

Yuor Islamic countries try to force the Muslims to not to converts to other faith so they come to India or Russia or USA to get converted.This is misue of power.

Do you know that during Sikhs rule of Ranjit Singh,one of his Muslim wife did convert her maid to Islam.

If Sikhism is Gods religion, which is the destiny of all if they are to be saved, and the only way to enlightenment ( as Sikhs perceive it ) is to follow the “Way of the Gurusâ€, then why do Sikhs not debate and discuss their faith in the World and try to convert others to it?

God in Sikhs speaks the True Verses or Gurubani and is some one has to join after getting influcne God only influences and God only motivates.

That is anyway not your proeblem.As work of God we preach worship of God to all faiths.We say to you to worship Allah,who is in all(both Monins and Kafirs) and to Hindus to worship that Ram who is in all(Sanats and Melachhas).

Someone who wants to be like us becomes like us.

Is this fair, if it is the truth ( which it is not ), then why do Sikhs not ask others to join it?

We tell people to join truth and one cjhosed by God join us .so the Truth.

Conclusion

No doubt this article has encouraged and enraged Sikhs in equal measure, however the lines of dialogue for both are open. Please contact Sikhstoislam@gmail.com if you wish to discuss any of the points raised in this.

conclusion

That the writer does not kn ow that Holy Kuran,Teh Glory and Powers of Allah,which are unlimited.Had she/he known that,then he/she may not have delibrately misinterpreted Sikhism and gace wrong impression towards own false stantic faith of pseudo Islam as we are the only true Muslims.

Allah Hafiz(The God Is Always Protector)

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Gurfateh

Das is anyway sorry to Bhai Bahadur Singh that in his absesnce das could not wait long to reply to this guy.

Das requests Bhai TSingh Ji and other to kindly call him to give more appropriate replies as per Shia prespectives.

this person has said that Islam does ont endrose Shrines but what about Mecca,Medina or Al Aqsa.What is rational behind Prophets going to Hevan via tower(minarate) and Prophet dying the natrual death.Prophet is there and in in hevan near Allah and will punish those who do not follow true Islam.

Best way to follow True Islam is to join Gurmat after undergoing baptism and so thie person Sikh2Islma is invited to get converted.

Das assures him that one day we may make a Gurudwara at Mecca Sharief and no stone worshipp will be allowed there as it is done at present.

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Kam,

The proof that I have that the Qu'ran is the word of God is simple :-

1. It issues a challenge to "produce a chapter like it". Do a search on the internet about it, you will see no-one has ever produced a chapter like the Qu'ran.

2. There are no contradictions in the Qu'ran, like it promises.

All through the Qu'ran, Allah (God) asks people to prove him wrong, like the points mentioned above, and no-one is able to do it.

Thats why i and so many of my friends left false religions behind and followed Islam.

Why does Sikhism not have a way to prove it right?

here are errors of quran specially for you.

I3: Errors Which Contradict Secular and Scientific Data

There are other stories in the Qur'an which do not stand up to the secular data which is available. These errors are possibly the most damaging for the credibility of the Qur'an as the perfect 'Word of God' because their veracity can be measured against the test of observable data, which is by definition neutral and binding.

I3i: Ishmael

The descendence of Ishmael by all Arabs is in doubt within the secular world, since historically the first father of the Arabs was Qahtan or Joktan (see Genesis 10:25-30). Some of his sons names are still found in geographical locations in Arabia today, such as Sheba, Hazarmaveth, Ophir, and Havilah. Abraham's nephew Lot would be another ancestor to the Arabs via the Moabites and Ammonites (Genesis 24); as would Jacob's twin brother Esau, and the six sons of Abraham's third wife Keturah. Yet they are not even mentioned as ancestors to the Arabs in the Qur'an.

I3ii: Samaritan

The Qur'an says that the calf worshipped by the Israelites at mount Horeb was molded by a Samaritan (sura 20:85-87, 95-97). Yet the term 'Samaritan' was not coined until 722 B.C., which is several hundred years after the events recorded in Exodus. Thus, the Samaritan people could not have existed during the life of Moses, and therefore, could not have been responsible for molding the calf.

It is interesting to notice that while Yusuf Ali attempts to change this word to "Samiri" and Pickthall to "As Samirii," Arberry in the English, and Kasimirski in the French both correctly translate it "Samaritan." Yusuf Ali, in his footnotes, "bends over backwards" to explain his choice by suggesting that the name could mean "Shemer," which denotes a stranger, or "Shomer," which means a watchman, the equivalent of "Samara" in Arabic, which he implies is close enough to the Samari he is looking for. Once again we find an awkward example of Ali attempting to twist the translation in order to get out of a difficult scenario, similar to the examples of "Periklytos," or the word "Machmad" which he uses to signify Muhammad in the Bible. The Arabic simply does not give Ali the leeway to concoct other meanings for this word. To be consistent with the Arabic he should keep his translation consistent with the text, as Arberry and Kasimirski have done.

I3iii: Sunset

In sura 18:86 it states, "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a people: We said: O Dhu al Qarnayn! Either punish them,or treat them with kindness." It is well known that only the superstitious in the age of Muhammad believed that the sun would set in a muddy spring.

I3iv: Issa

The name for Jesus in the Qur'an is given as "Issa." Yet this is incorrect. Issa is the Arabic equivalent of Esau, the name for the twin brother of Jacob. The correct Arabic name for Jesus would be Yesuwa, similar to the Hebrew Yeshuwa, yet the supposedly "all-knowing" Qur'an has no mention of it.

I3v: Mountains

Suras 16:15; 21:31; 31:10; 78:6-7; 88:19 tell us that God placed (threw down) mountains on the earth like tent pegs to keep the earth from shaking. For pre-scientific man this would sound logical, since mountains are large and therefore, their weight would have seemingly, a stabilizing effect on the earth. Yet we now know this logic to be quite inaccurate. Mountains do not render the earth's crust stable. In fact, the very existence of mountains is evidence of instability in the earth's crust, as they are found and pushed up by the colliding of tectonic plates (i.e. the migration of Arabia toward Iran has resulted in the Zagros range, France pushing against Italy produced the Alps, and the Indian plate nudging Tibet has given us the Himalayas).

I3vi: Alexander the Great

In sura 18:83-100 we find the story of Dhu al Qarnayn, who is known as the Greek conqueror, Alexander the Great. According to this sura, his power was given to him by Allah (aya 84), which some Muslims contend is an assertion that he had the same prominence as a prophet. But of even more importance to our discussion is the contention, according to this sura, that he was credited with building an enormous wall of iron and brass between two mountains, which was tall enough and wide enough to keep an entire army out (aya 96).

It is simple to test these claims because Alexander lived in the full light of history. Arrian, Quintus Curtius and other historians of repute have written the history of Alexander's exploits. From their writings we know that Aristotle was his tutor. Yet, these historians equivocally make him out as a heathen general whose debauchery and drunkenness contributed to his untimely death at the early age of 33. They show that he was an idolater, and actually claimed to be the son of the Egyptian god Amun. How, therefore, could he be considered to have the same prominence as a prophet, or even, as aya 84 clearly asserts, that Allah was the agent for his power?

Yet, what is even more troubling, there is no historical evidence anywhere that he built a wall of iron and brass between two mountains, a feat which, indeed, would have proven him to be one of the greatest builders or engineers in the history of mankind.

When we find the Qur'an so inaccurate in regard to Alexander, whose history is well known, we hesitate to accept as valuable or even as reliable the statements of the Qur'an about other matters of past history.

I3vii: Creation

Sura 86:5-7 tells us that man is created from a gushing fluid that issues from between the loins and the ribs. Therefore, in this sura we find that the semen which creates a child originates from the back or kidney of the male and not the testicles.

I3viii: Pharaoh's Cross

In sura 7:124 we find Pharoah admonishing his sorcerers because they believe in the superiority of Moses's power over theirs. Pharoah threatens them with cutting off their hands and feet on opposite sides, and then says they will all die on the cross. But their were no crosses in those days. Crucifixion was first practised by the Phoenicians and the Carthaginians and then borrowed extensively by the Romans close to the time of Christ, 1700 years after Pharaoh!

I3ix: Other Scientific problems

Sura 16:66 mentions that cow's milk comes from between the excrement and the blood of the cow's abdomen. What does this mean?

In sura 16:69 we are told that honey, which gives healing, comes out of the bees abdomen. Again, what does it mean that honey comes out of a bees abdomen?

sura 6:38 says that all animals and flying beings form communities, like humans. I would like to ask whether this includes spiders, where in some species the female eats the male after mating has taken place. Is that a community like ours?

sura 25:45-46 maintains that it is the sun which moves to create shadows. Yet, I have always been taught that it was the rotation of the earth which caused shadows to move, while the sun remained quite still (i.e. thus the importance of sundials in earlier days).

sura 17:1 says Muhammad went to the "farthest Mosque" during his journey by night (the Mi'raj), which Muslims explain was the Dome of the Rock mosque, in Jerusalem. But there was no mosque in Jerusalem during the life of Muhammad, and the Dome of the Rock was not built until 690 C.E., by the Amir 'Abd al Malik, a full 58 years after Muhammad's death! There was not even a temple in existence at that time. The temple of Jerusalem had been destroyed by Titus 570 years before this vision. So what was this mosque Muhammad supposedly saw

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Wait who told you that scripture is writtan by Gurus,It was Ihalam of words of God unto Gurus,Bhagats,sufis and Sikhs.

You do not know your history on how the Sikh books were compiled and recorded.

A. Mohan held all the Shabads from Nanak, and it was passed to Arjan.

B. Arjan then had his scribe, Bhai Gur Das, add his words to them.

C. The Ninth Gurus words were Added by the 10 Guru, Gobind Singh, in blank sections left by Arjan.

There can only be two sources of where the SGGS is from :-

i. from the Gurus themselves

ii. From God

If it is from God, then you need proof to verify this. What proof do you have that the Gurus were sent by God?

They are Sent by one Eternal Guru called Allah.

Again, claiming that the Gurus are Prophets, yet having no proof to justify this.

Yuo may know that Rasool(SWAS),was illetrate and when Jibrail said Iqra only on thierd time did he had power to comprihend the things.

In the case of Guru,Allah did make knwoldege come into him as Allah wanted.can you say that Allah is bounded by the thing that when Allah says there is Night and it is recored in holy Kuran,If Allah bring day and Allah say there is day,and this ting will be false.

I am aware that the Prophet(saw) was Illiterate at the time of Prophethood, which again is another proof that the Holy Qu;ran can only be from God

Of Course Allah(Swt) can do all, but how do we know that Allah(Swt) is talking to us through Prophets? Many people claim to be inspired by God. The only way is to bring a Miracle. What were the Guru’s miracles? How can we verify them?

Are you aware that within the same Sakhi,Bhai Balal narrates to the Second Master.If Bhai Gurdas say did not mention the name of the Father of Guru,then it may not mean that Mehta Kalu did not exists.If he did not mention Rasool(SWAS) or Abdula(Razi) they do not exists

This is invalid logic. What I am saying is that his status is inauthentic, as is the book he is alleged to have scribed, Bala Janan Sikhi.

In Holy Kuran,here could be mnay frineds of or reltive of Rasool who are not mentioned.And if Allah do not talk about them so it is going to be false.Do all Hadiths talk about some of the wives of Rasool(SWAS)?

We are not talking about Hadith, or Qu’ran, we are talking about Historical Fact. There is NOT ONE seerah (biography ) or historical manuscript from the Dawn of Islam to now, that does not record the details, at least by name, of Umar, Abu-Bakr, Uthman or Ali.

In Hadith, the Main Sahaba ( the ones who emigrated from Mecca with the Prophet(Saw) ) are mentioned at least once.

Why is Bala Sandhu not mentioned at all, when he was the main follower and traveler with Guru Nanak? It defies logic to state that his narrations are accurate when there is no mention.

prove it.Das has read it.The language is Punjabi or Farsi laden with Arebic.And simlar things were there in other souces like Nasihat Nammah and Karni Naamha and semblence to Landa dialect of that time.

Incorrect. The SCRIPT is Gurmukhi which was around from even the 12th Century ( and not invented by Arjan ), but the language in the Patti is actually Panjabi and is too modern to have been written in that time.

Say das can say that there could be version of Holy Kuran,which has stanic verse as its part.Verse in which there has been some glory of some demigods of semtic side,which later were told by Rasol(SWAS) under the influence of Satan,such verse were return so were later removed.

I am assuming you are talking about the satanic verses. This is completely false. It is false logically because how can a prophet from god, who every action is an example, be allowed to be possessed from God? If that is the case, everyone would follow evil for that moment of time. There is no evidence for what you claim.

Are you aware that Abu Malik(RA) or Abu Hanifa(RA) did came much after Rasol(PBUH) some people say other time while some other.Yuo yourself are intelligent.Are all Hadiths compiled during the time of Rasol(SWAS).

Malik (ra) was indeed around much (80 years ) after the Prophet(saw). However, he took hadith of tabiyiin, who were told hadith directly from the companions of the prophet. In addition to this, there were conditions before a hadith was accepted , e.g. did the narrator pray, fast, pay zakat, tell the truth, fair in business, etc…I.e. only narrators who were of high moral character were accepted. For further details, study USUL AL FIQH. Where is the similar stringent tests in Sikhism? How do you know shabads are not forgeries?

There is only Guru of Sikhs called Akal,which you call as Allah.Allah manifested self in the form of Verse(Gurbani ) and community(Guru Panth).

Gurubar Akal has 12 forms.And all are one.Final and first,there is one Guru.

Again, you need proof for this. You cant just make statements about God without substantiating them!

Can you anyway urinate in the direction of qibla.do you know that as per True Islam,Qibla is in all direction(as per rules or spreiod,two points of it surcfe always meet via great or small eliicpse).Rasool gave such a good faith and you do not know.Qibla says Allah every where.

You don’t understand the concept of Qibla in Islam. Qibla is a DIRECTION TO PRAY TO.. it is not saying Allahs’ (SWT) domain is in one direction, his domain and knowledge encompasses all.

Hathi all elephants here Hathis plural and Ek Hathi or Hathi here one elephant and Elephant is singular.do you know that Arebic has 80 meaning of the same word.Say Bakar may mean cow but may means other things.Harfe Muqat,do you know what do they mean?

It depends on the word in Arabic, not all have 80 meanings, and it is the context of the words around it that give it only one meaning.

With regards Sargun / Nargun, I recommend you read the following :-

Subject to correctly interpreting this vague paragraph, we conclude that the Nirgun-Sargun “duality†is a contradiction based not upon our perception of its reality, but its etymological structure, i.e. the suffix 'gun' means 'attributes', 'sar' means 'with (all)' and 'nir' means 'none'. God is, thus, described as Sargun - a deity with attributes (attributed) - and also Nirgun - an attributeless deity (unattributed), which of course is a contradiction in terms. The subjective reality of this duality, however, has no bearing on the fact that etymologically the Nirgun-Sargun concept is a contradiction

(taken from islam / Sikhism )

References for the other two contradictions are :-

Reincarnation / Rejected : Guru Granth Sahib Ji, P920 M3 and P885 M5

If some one wants to imgaine fragmentaion,same can be done with Holy Kuran as some idiots frpm west ry to do.so far you are proven false to preove a single contradiction

There are no contradictions in the Qu’ran, I challenge anyone to present them here.

Is Allah has no other work left to just to repeat what was sent in Kateebs previously so that one person like yourself will come and ask about the same things.

Anyway are you sure that things in Bible (3Katebs) are in concormity with Holy Kuran?

The Bible is inauthentic, it has not been preserved, and has been used and abused by the Catholic Church to justify their oppression throughout the ages.

God did not want us to know so god did not provide us any fairy tail.We were told that from creator gases occur,from gases did fliud came and from fulid universe was created.

Where is your description of the Universes origins then? Its not in the SGGS, its your own theory.

Are you sure that this creation is frist creation by Allah?Can you gurante that Allah will not destoy Hevan and hell after creation?Are you ready to do Shirk by saying that you have power or you book has such power to let Allah follow that and not self will of Allah.Did Allah created Katebs or Katebs created Allah?

The Qu’ran is the speech of Allah(swt), and it is guaranteed that until someone can prove the Qu’ran false, then Gods promise is that he will judge us for our actions on earth and will reward or punish us therein.

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if you are so much interested in converting people to islam then please visit

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/

on that site you will find many atheists,hindu's 'christrians.just try to convince them about islam.i read many debates on that site many muslims

have tried to debate with them but all of them are badly defeated.

PLEASE TRY TO CONVINCE THEM ABOUT ISLAM.

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I

I don't understand why Sikhs dont want other people to follow Sikhism? Isnt it that if you believe you are on the right path, you also want others to follow that path ?

i don't understand why muslims are so much afraid of faithfreedom.org?

do they know that they have benn proven wrong many times on that site.

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the debate is not about Islam being wrong or not...

Maharaj says the Quran is not false, and Daram Granth says Quran was sent by God.

what Ali sina on faithfreedom does, is to misinterpret Quranic Verses and use narrations from liars such as Bukhari and muslim...may they burn in hell!!

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the debate is not about Islam being wrong or not...

Maharaj says the Quran is not false, and Daram Granth says Quran was sent by God.

what Ali sina on faithfreedom does, is to misinterpret Quranic Verses and use narrations from liars such as Bukhari and muslim...may they burn in hell!!

are you a muslim or sikh?foolstoislam is here to convert sikhs that's why i am sending him to a site where he can find people which he can convert.

btw how do you know that ali sina misinterpret quran.?

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Ali Sina attacks Muhammad calling him a mass murdere, a rapist, a pedofile..

lets see what sikh sources say about Muhamad:

Vaar 1 Pauri 4 Line 7 Creation

He has created many a dear personality such as Vedavyas and Muhammad dear to the Vedas and the Katebas respectively.

can a man, who has a deer personality given by God be a rapist, murdere etc??

further more:

Vaar 1 Pauri 20 Line 1 Islam

When varied sects got prevalent, then Muhammad, the beloved of God was born.

Beloved of God it says.. how can a murdere, rapist and pedofile be a beloved of God??

the Quran is not false:

Page 1350, Line 5

Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.

and Quran being the word of God:

Page 98, Line 9

Thou hast also created the directions, the indivcations, the earth and the sky. Thou hast also related the four Vedas, the Quran and the Puranas.24.

so ask yourself....If Muhammad and Quran are both from God, do think that Ali Sina in his perverse interpretation of the Quran is right??? he is a liar and will (i hope)burn in hell along with yazid, abu bakr, uthman, bukhari and muslim...

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dear amardeep

first of all please don't quote single lines to prove your point.i have seen

many people who just quote a single line to prove that guru granth sahib is bad.the shabads have much deeper meaning.you have quoted following line from guru granth sahib.now just look at the meaning of the shabad

the Quran is not false:

Page 1350, Line 5

Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.

-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.php?f=1...92#reply_110750

Author: Manvir Singh Khalsa

Date: 09-01-06 13:23

Vahiguroo Jee Ka Khalsa

Vahiguroo Jee Kee Fateh.

I would like to share with the Sangat what one young man from a Sikh background who was considering of converting to Islam said to me. Daas and few Gursikhs met up with the young veer jee who was thinking of converting to Islam due to pressures from his peer group and cousins (who had already converted).

He said he had been given a CD by his fundamentalist Muslim peers which had the FALLACIES of Sikhi on it. I asked him to put the CD in the computer and show me what was written. The Word document was basically a COPY AND PASTE job from www.Sikhs.org about the basics of Sikhi(when it didn't even INSULT Sikhi or say anything NEGATIVE! I was SHOCKED and LAUGHED that they used the "COPY AND PASTE" as the fallacy! Rab Bhalla Kare. Even the boy was shocked and felt EMBARRASED that he thought he had a CD containing all the fallacies of Sikhi, when really he should have researched it and at least HAD A LOOK at it, instead of taking the fundamentalist people's word that Sikhi had been disproved as a true religion.

O Well! So the MAIN THING which I could find was that it was written that Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee says that: "Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false" (Ang 1350).

I have heard this before from another young person influenced by missionary tactics.

Daas would like to share the reply to this point used, which is used to convince Sikhs that even Guru Granth Sahib jee says that the Quran is the "INFALLIBLE WORD of GOD".

REPLY:-

The first line of this Shabad has been taken OUT OF CONTEXT and being read alone, as a result of individuals pursuing their on AGENDAS. However, reading it in FULL CONTEXT in relation to the 'RAHAAO’ or CENTRAL IDEA verse of the Shabad and with the rest of the Shabad, it is clear that the Shabad is FAR from trying to justify or state the Quran is the true word of God. This is NOT EVEN COVERED! The point being covered is the HYPOCRISY of religions and so-called religious people. The CLAIM one thing in WRITING and do something DIFFERENT in PRACTICE of the religion, which is CONTRADICTORY. This is exposed, questioned and reflected upon in this Shabad through Bhagat Kabeer jee.

pRBwqI ] byd kqyb khhu mq JUTy, JUTw jo n ibcwrY ] jau sB mih eyku Kudwie khq hau, qau ikau murgI mwrY ]1] mulW, khhu inAwau KudweI ] qyry mn kw Brmu n jweI ]1] rhwau ] pkir jIau AwinAw, dyh ibnwsI, mwtI kau ibsimil kIAw ] joiq srUp Anwhq lwgI, khu hlwlu ikAw kIAw ]2] ikAw aujU pwku kIAw muhu DoieAw, ikAw msIiq isru lwieAw ] jau idl mih kptu invwj gujwrhu, ikAw hj kwbY jwieAw ]3] qUM nwpwku, pwku nhI sUiJAw, iqs kw mrmu n jwinAw ] kih kbIr iBsiq qy cUkw, dojk isau mnu mwinAw ]4]4] (pMnw 1350)

English Translation:-

Prabhaatee: (O Hindu and Muslim brothers!) do not say that (one another’s) religious texts of the Vedas or the Quran etc are false. Those who do not contemplate these religious texts are false. (O dear Mullah!) If you say that the One Lord is in all, so why do you kill chickens (as a sacrifice before that Lord)? (What does He not pervade in the chicken? What is the meaning of killing the creation of the Lord and presenting it before Him?) ||1||

O Mullah tell me! You tell (others) about God's Justice, but the doubts of your own mind have not been dispelled. ||1||Pause||

O Mullah! You seize a living creature, and then bring it home and kill its body; you have killed only the clay (of that soul) in the name of God. But O Mullah! That Lord who is the pure light of lights and you is Immortal, His Light is pervading everywhere, (He was also present in that chicken, which you sacrificed in the name of God), so tell me, what have you made worthy of sacrificing in the name of God? ||2||

O Mullah! If you read prayers when your heart is full of hypocrisy, then what good are these prayers? What good are your purifications? Why do you bother to wash your face? Why do you bother to bow your head in the mosque? And, what good is the pilgrimage to Kaab’ha? ||3||

O Mullah! You are impure from inside, you have not understood the Pure Lord. You do not know His Mystery. Says Kabeer – (You are stuck in this doubt that) you have missed out on paradise, and your mind is set on hell. ||4||4||

(Ang 1350)

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Daas,

Manvir Singh

Reply To This Message

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it is written in islam that mohammed is the last prophet and islam is the true religion and everybody should embrace islam.if our guru's really beleived that quran is the word of god then then they would had embraced islam.our guru,s clearly rejected hinduism and islam.this shows that

quran is not word of god.

as far as ali sina is concerned go to faithfreedom.org and read some of his debates with muslim scholars and then decide whether he is liar or not.

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Gurfateh

You do not know your history on how the Sikh books were compiled and recorded.

A. Mohan held all the Shabads from Nanak, and it was passed to Arjan.

B. Arjan then had his scribe, Bhai Gur Das, add his words to them.

C. The Ninth Gurus words were Added by the 10 Guru, Gobind Singh, in blank sections left by Arjan.

There can only be two sources of where the SGGS is from :-

i. from the Gurus themselves

ii. From God

If it is from God, then you need proof to verify this. What proof do you have that the Gurus were sent by God?

Bhai are yu sure to have the same Holy Kuran as at the time of Rasool.

Can you prove this by carbon dating.Das has seen the first version of Kartatpur Beerh.And could be proven by Carbon datiing or say nuclear dating.

The oldest version of Holy Kuran is much after Rasol PBUH.

There are vserses onto Bhagats much before the First Master.Fifth Master did all survey of relavent Ihlams,ie ffounds verse which are from God. and then did he compiled them.

It is correclt wirttan as ploer voice or Dhur ki Bani verse fomr bases in Gurbani.And Guru is refered as God.

Are you sure about your own History of Holy Kuran.And mind the manners.Say with respect the name of Guru Arjan Dev Ji.

Allah has enpowered us to teach illmannere people the correct manners.Das will not do this but if anyone say name of Rasol(SWAS) with disrespect you may not like.So is case here.

yuo can vist the the Thamu Ji Sahib to get to see the oldest version of the times of Guru.

Again, claiming that the Gurus are Prophets, yet having no proof to justify this

no we convey that Allah is the only Guru.No toehr guru in human form.

can you prove by the way did where did rAsool go as his reamons are not reaming,He acsended to heavan.So any porrof left of him on earth?

I am aware that the Prophet(saw) was Illiterate at the time of Prophethood, which again is another proof that the Holy Qu;ran can only be from God

Of Course Allah(Swt) can do all, but how do we know that Allah(Swt) is talking to us through Prophets? Many people claim to be inspired by God. The only way is to bring a Miracle. What were the Guru’s miracles? How can we verify them?

some proetestants guys say otherwise that some other guys das forgets the name tought Rasol biblical theroies and this is myth.Das does not agrees to that.

But are yuo sure that by miracle only powers of Allah could be shown.Had this been then Rasool may not have fought many fights with Kureshis say tyhe war of Khandak,why did not he show miracle?

In fact if he was paranoid with Miralces as you are he may notn have done Hizrat from mecca to Medina.He might have called Legons from Allah and mecca be his.

Allah wants them only evil can also do miracle.Say what Dajjal will do ie to bring dead to life.So you may follow him.

This is invalid logic. What I am saying is that his status is inauthentic, as is the book he is alleged to have scribed, Bala Janan Sikhi.

by such logic das can prove many of your Hadiths also unfit.As mnay sects of your do not follow them.Status of many of hadits are deabtalbe.but das just again try to understand logic before declarreing it invalid.

If of some person,there is no mention at other book ,then it may not mean that that person does not exists.

We are not talking about Hadith, or Qu’ran, we are talking about Historical Fact. There is NOT ONE seerah (biography ) or historical manuscript from the Dawn of Islam to now, that does not record the details, at least by name, of Umar, Abu-Bakr, Uthman or Ali.

If we go bby your logic then if one text does not mentioned Hazrat Khaizda(Razi),then she may not exists at all.Thats waht you said that as Bhai Bala Sandhu was not in Vaars of Bhai Gurdas,he may not have existsed.

In Hadith, the Main Sahaba ( the ones who emigrated from Mecca with the Prophet(Saw) ) are mentioned at least once.

Why is Bala Sandhu not mentioned at all, when he was the main follower and traveler with Guru Nanak? It defies logic to state that his narrations are accurate when there is no mention.

Yuo are mistaken.siddiques are addressed as collective,who did Hizrat and many are not mentioned.

do you know that we have S. Sher Singh Kashmeer ,who had Sayad Ancestors from Ghilidyal sahib,near Rawal Pindi,who accompaned Guru to Mecaa and later whole Family was converted To Gurmat,and that is not mentioned but in texts of Sayyads only.So there could be not Bhai Bala and Bhai mardana only.

Incorrect. The SCRIPT is Gurmukhi which was around from even the 12th Century ( and not invented by Arjan ), but the language in the Patti is actually Panjabi and is too modern to have been written in that time.

Very nice,Sura Ek Achchh Janwar hai and Hamri Khurak hai.Is this not tranlaitration.Language is Urdu and script is Roman.

as per your self Raman is langauge.good logic as Guru says that who bows to stone get mind like that of stone.In this case we have black stone.

Script could be Gurmuckh but say mnay times in mn ay Sikh scripture langauge could be Farsi,Hindu and mnay more and our God is not Arebic speaking god but speaks in all.(Sabhe Ghat Ram Bole).

am assuming you are talking about the satanic verses. This is completely false. It is false logically because how can a prophet from god, who every action is an example, be allowed to be possessed from God? If that is the case, everyone would follow evil for that moment of time. There is no evidence for what you claim.

have you shown any evidance of Rasool or your type of Allah

or Gibrail or Mikeil?can you show any of them to das,then only can das behold that they are true else you say are false?

What evidance do you have that in cave Gibrail came and so mnay angels were sent with Ayats to proetcec them enroute?

Only Records.and from records did these verse come whci were Satanic.

If a Rasool (SWAS)can do hijrat and it is sort of aprant defeat from Satan,then why can not Stanic verse come?Satan is in control of Allah and is older servent of Allah then Rasool.

Malik (ra) was indeed around much (80 years ) after the Prophet(saw). However, he took hadith of tabiyiin, who were told hadith directly from the companions of the prophet. In addition to this, there were conditions before a hadith was accepted , e.g. did the narrator pray, fast, pay zakat, tell the truth, fair in business, etc…I.e. only narrators who were of high moral character were accepted. For further details, study USUL AL FIQH. Where is the similar stringent tests in Sikhism? How do you know shabads are not forgeries?

what proffe do you have that such people who let Hadiths paas to sunni Iamams were actualy the same good and honest.Das can say that if some wrote forged record at that time.how can you have faith on that?

Say if a burgelr writes at the time of Prophet that he never did burgelary,you will still accept the same.Waht proof is there that authantic Hadiths were delivered?And delivers were OK and not false?

do you know that you Shias say that present Kuran is also only 1/3rd of the origional one.

so is there not conflict over that?

coming to Panth.yuo though that only Bhai Bala Janam Sakhi are the records,We are inumerable records like from Udasis,Bhatt Bahis etc. which you may not have heard of.

Again, you need proof for this. You cant just make statements about God without substantiating them!

what is the prrof that Kuran if from Allah?when often it goes against the physical laws.Say das's body may has elements of some of the Muslim Imams and then one day same elemetns will go in the body of pig.which body will come back on Qayamat?

It is in kuran only that it is from God,in the same way is there in gurbani that it is from Allah and rember one thing.donot qoute Bible saying it endroses Kuran.As per them Rasool(SWAS) is false prophet and they use same things for you.Das is not with them.

how can you prove by the way that Rasool Married Hazrat Khazida(Razi),only by old texts.So it is by records.As it is for Holy Kuran and its supporting text,we behold it as Godly ,so do we say of Gurbani,

First Master went wihle alive in the court of Akal.Do need further prrof as it is writtan inn old Text.And then you can prove that Rasol(SWAS) had vision of Gibrail as per records only.Rasoll was illetrate as per Records only.

Say if Christian say that your records are satanic or false,From your records only,you will try to prove.And they ,may not agree saying that they are not authantic.so you may not prove your faith also.

You don’t understand the concept of Qibla in Islam. Qibla is a DIRECTION TO PRAY TO.. it is not saying Allahs’ (SWT) domain is in one direction, his domain and knowledge encompasses all.

do you know that before Mecca Rasool(SWAS) told your creed to Pray indirection to Yeru Salam.Was is the mistake that in that,that after having bad terms with Jews(Bani Israel) did Rasool (SWAS)made Momins(mostly Banin Islmael) to deem Mecca as Dargah Ali.

If you say Allah encompaases All.Then why not you do Salat(Prayer) just doing you back towards Qibla as even if you do so,you face stil face Qibla.

It is you have has got entangled in direction.As Allah is in all direction so Qibla is whereever you pray in whichever direction.

It depends on the word in Arabic, not all have 80 meanings, and it is the context of the words around it that give it only one meaning.

With regards Sargun / Nargun, I recommend you read the following :-

Subject to correctly interpreting this vague paragraph, we conclude that the Nirgun-Sargun “duality†is a contradiction based not upon our perception of its reality, but its etymological structure, i.e. the suffix 'gun' means 'attributes', 'sar' means 'with (all)' and 'nir' means 'none'. God is, thus, described as Sargun - a deity with attributes (attributed) - and also Nirgun - an attributeless deity (unattributed), which of course is a contradiction in terms. The subjective reality of this duality, however, has no bearing on the fact that etymologically the Nirgun-Sargun concept is a contradiction

(taken from islam / Sikhism )

References for the other two contradictions are :-

Reincarnation / Rejected : Guru Granth Sahib Ji, P920 M3 and P885 M5

Well first of all,due to this multi meaning of lnaguage in Arebic,there are mnay even much more then 72 Sects in Islam(Das behold Gurmat as 73rd).

do you know that in one sect,if girl and boy aree from differnt father and same mother they can marry.As they say that in time of Adam(AS) Real there use to be twins. and Gril from younger twin use to marry boy brother just bron in set before her.

such are interpetaions.das will not go further.As das saw that as per your Great so called Islamic intellect your self have.

So Sar is from Sarv ie All and Sarv Guna is all gunas.Sa mean with With Qaulities.So it is strange for your analytical skill as it self worship stones and breaks stones worshipped by others.

As any one with All qualities may not have any single qaulity.Allah being Rahim and Kareem and with all things master has attributes of all and So does not has any particular attribute.

So if you can not find logic in logicaly thing then it may be your illogical mind set.But Allah will have mercy on you and let you have 72 dames and good lot of wine in heavan.There logic will be good.For us faith in Allah having all qaulties so not single qaulity is complimemntary.

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਸੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਸਨਮੁਖੁ ਹੋਏ ॥੨੧॥

कहै नानकु सुणहु संतहु सो सिखु सनमुखु होए ॥२१॥

kahai naanak sunhu santahu so sikh sanmukh ho-ay. ||21||

Says Nanak, listen, O Saints: such a Sikh turns toward the Guru with sincere faith, and becomes sunmukh. ||21||

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਵੇਮੁਖੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ॥

जे को गुर ते वेमुखु होवै बिनु सतिगुर मुकति न पावै ॥

jay ko gur tay vaimukh hovai bin satgur mukat na paavai.

One who turns away from the Guru, and becomes baymukh - without the True Guru, he shall not find liberation.

ਪਾਵੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਰ ਥੈ ਕੋਈ ਪੁਛਹੁ ਬਿਬੇਕੀਆ ਜਾਏ ॥

पावै मुकति न होर थै कोई पुछहु बिबेकीआ जाए ॥

paavai mukat na hor thai ko-ee puchhahu bibaykee-aa jaa-ay.

He shall not find liberation anywhere else either; go and ask the wise ones about this.

ਅਨੇਕ ਜੂਨੀ ਭਰਮਿ ਆਵੈ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥

अनेक जूनी भरमि आवै विणु सतिगुर मुकति न पाए ॥

anayk joonee bharam aavai vin satgur mukat na paa-ay.

He shall wander through countless incarnations; without the True Guru, he shall not find liberation.

ਫਿਰਿ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਪਾਏ ਲਾਗਿ ਚਰਣੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਏ ॥

फिरि मुकति पाए लागि चरणी सतिगुरू सबदु सुणाए ॥

fir mukat paa-ay laag charnee satguroo sabad sunaa-ay.

But liberation is attained, when one is attached to the feet of the True Guru, chanting the Word of the Shabad.

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥੨੨॥

कहै नानकु वीचारि देखहु विणु सतिगुर मुकति न पाए ॥२२॥

kahai naanak veechaar daykhhu vin satgur mukat na paa-ay. ||22||

Says Nanak, contemplate this and see, that without the True Guru, there is no liberation. ||22||

ਆਵਹੁ ਸਿਖ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੇ ਪਿਆਰਿਹੋ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਸਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥

आवहु सिख सतिगुरू के पिआरिहो गावहु सची बाणी ॥

aavhu sikh satguroo kay pi-aariho gaavhu sachee banee.

Come, O beloved Sikhs of the True Guru, and sing the True Word of His Bani.

ਬਾਣੀ ਤ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਕੇਰੀ ਬਾਣੀਆ ਸਿਰਿ ਬਾਣੀ ॥

बाणी त गावहु गुरू केरी बाणीआ सिरि बाणी ॥

banee ta gaavhu guroo kayree baanee-aa sir banee.

Sing the Guru's Bani, the supreme Word of Words.

ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਮੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਤਿਨਾ ਸਮਾਣੀ ॥

जिन कउ नदरि करमु होवै हिरदै तिना समाणी ॥

jin ka-o nadar karam hovai hirdai tinaa samaanee.

Those who are blessed by the Lord's Glance of Grace - their hearts are imbued with this Bani.

ਪੀਵਹੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਦਾ ਰਹਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗਿ ਜਪਿਹੁ ਸਾਰਿਗਪਾਣੀ ॥

पीवहु अम्रितु सदा रहहु हरि रंगि जपिहु सारिगपाणी ॥

peevhu amrit sadaa rahhu har rang japihu saarigpaanee.

Drink in this Ambrosial Nectar, and remain in the Lord's Love forever; meditate on the Lord, the Sustainer of the world.

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸਦਾ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਏਹ ਸਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥੨੩॥

कहै नानकु सदा गावहु एह सची बाणी ॥२३॥

kahai naanak sadaa gaavhu ayh sachee banee. ||23||

Says Nanak, sing this True Bani forever. ||23||

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਿਨਾ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ॥

सतिगुरू बिना होर कची है बाणी ॥

satguroo binaa hor kachee hai banee.

Without the True Guru, other songs are false.

ਬਾਣੀ ਤ ਕਚੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥

बाणी त कची सतिगुरू बाझहु होर कची बाणी ॥

banee ta kachee satguroo baajhahu hor kachee banee.

The songs are false without the True Guru; all other songs are false.

ਕਹਦੇ ਕਚੇ ਸੁਣਦੇ ਕਚੇ ਕਚਂੀ ਆਖਿ ਵਖਾਣੀ ॥

कहदे कचे सुणदे कचे कचीं आखि वखाणी ॥

kahday kachay sunday kachay kacheeN aakh vakhaanee.

The speakers are false, and the listeners are false; those who speak and recite are false.

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਿਤ ਕਰਹਿ ਰਸਨਾ ਕਹਿਆ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਣੀ ॥

हरि हरि नित करहि रसना कहिआ कछू न जाणी ॥

har har nit karahi rasnaa kahi-aa kachhoo na jaanee.

They may continually chant, 'Har, Har' with their tongues, but they do not know what they are saying.

ਚਿਤੁ ਜਿਨ ਕਾ ਹਿਰਿ ਲਇਆ ਮਾਇਆ ਬੋਲਨਿ ਪਏ ਰਵਾਣੀ ॥

चितु जिन का हिरि लइआ माइआ बोलनि पए रवाणी ॥

chit jin kaa hir la-i-aa maa-i-aa bolan pa-ay ravaanee.

Their consciousness is lured by Maya; they are just reciting mechanically.

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥੨੪॥

कहै नानकु सतिगुरू बाझहु होर कची बाणी ॥२४॥

kahai naanak satguroo baajhahu hor kachee banee. ||24||

Says Nanak, without the True Guru, other songs are false. ||24||

ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਰਤੰਨੁ ਹੈ ਹੀਰੇ ਜਿਤੁ ਜੜਾਉ ॥

गुर का सबदु रतंनु है हीरे जितु जड़ाउ ॥

gur kaa sabad ratann hai heeray jit jarhaa-o.

The Word of the Guru's Shabad is a jewel, studded with diamonds.

ਸਬਦੁ ਰਤਨੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਮੰਨੁ ਲਾਗਾ ਏਹੁ ਹੋਆ ਸਮਾਉ ॥

सबदु रतनु जितु मंनु लागा एहु होआ समाउ ॥

sabad ratan jit man laagaa ayhu ho-aa samaa-o.

The mind which is attached to this jewel, merges into the Shabad.

ਸਬਦ ਸੇਤੀ ਮਨੁ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਸਚੈ ਲਾਇਆ ਭਾਉ ॥

सबद सेती मनु मिलिआ सचै लाइआ भाउ ॥

sabad saytee man mili-aa sachai laa-i-aa bhaa-o.

One whose mind is attuned to the Shabad, enshrines love for the True Lord.

ਆਪੇ ਹੀਰਾ ਰਤਨੁ ਆਪੇ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਦੇਇ ਬੁਝਾਇ ॥

आपे हीरा रतनु आपे जिस नो देइ बुझाइ ॥

aapay heeraa ratan aapay jis no day-ay bujhaa-ay.

He Himself is the diamond, and He Himself is the jewel; one who is blessed, understands its value.

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਰਤਨੁ ਹੈ ਹੀਰਾ ਜਿਤੁ ਜੜਾਉ ॥੨੫॥

कहै नानकु सबदु रतनु है हीरा जितु जड़ाउ ॥२५॥

kahai naanak sabad ratan hai heeraa jit jarhaa-o. ||25||

Says Nanak, the Shabad is a jewel, studded with diamonds. ||25||

ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ ਆਪਿ ਉਪਾਇ ਕੈ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਵਰਤਾਏ ॥

सिव सकति आपि उपाइ कै करता आपे हुकमु वरताए ॥

siv sakat aap upaa-ay kai kartaa aapay hukam vartaa-ay.

He Himself created Shiva and Shakti, mind and matter; the Creator subjects them to His Command.

ਹੁਕਮੁ ਵਰਤਾਏ ਆਪਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਬੁਝਾਏ ॥

हुकमु वरताए आपि वेखै गुरमुखि किसै बुझाए ॥

hukam vartaa-ay aap vaykhai gurmukh kisai bujhaa-ay.

Enforcing His Order, He Himself sees all. How rare are those who, as Gurmukh, come to know Him.

ਤੋੜੇ ਬੰਧਨ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਏ ॥

तोड़े बंधन होवै मुकतु सबदु मंनि वसाए ॥

torhay banDhan hovai mukat sabad man vasaa-ay.

They break their bonds, and attain liberation; they enshrine the Shabad within their minds.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਆਪਿ ਕਰੇ ਸੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਏਕਸ ਸਿਉ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਏ ॥

गुरमुखि जिस नो आपि करे सु होवै एकस सिउ लिव लाए ॥

gurmukh jis no aap karay so hovai aykas si-o liv laa-ay.

Those whom the Lord Himself makes Gurmukh, lovingly focus their consciousness on the One Lord.

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਪਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਬੁਝਾਏ ॥੨੬॥

कहै नानकु आपि करता आपे हुकमु बुझाए ॥२६॥

kahai naanak aap kartaa aapay hukam bujhaa-ay. ||26||

Says Nanak, He Himself is the Creator; He Himself reveals the Hukam of His Command. ||26||

ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਪੁੰਨ ਪਾਪ ਬੀਚਾਰਦੇ ਤਤੈ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਣੀ ॥

सिम्रिति सासत्र पुंन पाप बीचारदे ततै सार न जाणी ॥

simrit saastar punn paap beechaarday tatai saar na jaanee.

The Simritees and the Shaastras discriminate between good and evil, but they do not know the true essence of reality.

ਤਤੈ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਤਤੈ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਣੀ ॥

ततै सार न जाणी गुरू बाझहु ततै सार न जाणी ॥

tatai saar na jaanee guroo baajhahu tatai saar na jaanee.

They do not know the true essence of reality without the Guru; they do not know the true essence of reality.

ਤਿਹੀ ਗੁਣੀ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਸੁਤਾ ਸੁਤਿਆ ਰੈਣਿ ਵਿਹਾਣੀ ॥

तिही गुणी संसारु भ्रमि सुता सुतिआ रैणि विहाणी ॥

tihee gunee sansaar bharam sutaa suti-aa rain vihaanee.

The world is asleep in the three modes and doubt; it passes the night of its life sleeping.

ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ ਸੇ ਜਨ ਜਾਗੇ ਜਿਨਾ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਆ ਬੋਲਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ॥

गुर किरपा ते से जन जागे जिना हरि मनि वसिआ बोलहि अम्रित बाणी ॥

gur kirpaa tay say jan jaagay jinaa har man vasi-aa boleh amrit banee.

Those humble beings remain awake and aware, within whose minds, by Guru's Grace, the Lord abides; they chant the Ambrosial Word of the Guru's Bani.

ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸੋ ਤਤੁ ਪਾਏ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੈ ਜਾਗਤ ਰੈਣਿ ਵਿਹਾਣੀ ॥੨੭॥

कहै नानकु सो ततु पाए जिस नो अनदिनु हरि लिव लागै जागत रैणि विहाणी ॥२७॥

kahai naanak so tat paa-ay jis no an-din har liv laagai jaagat rain vihaanee. ||27||

Says Nanak, they alone obtain the essence of reality, who night and day remain lovingly absorbed in the Lord; they pass the night of their life awake and aware. ||27||

ਮਾਤਾ ਕੇ ਉਦਰ ਮਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲ ਕਰੇ ਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਮਨਹੁ ਵਿਸਾਰੀਐ ॥

माता के उदर महि प्रतिपाल करे सो किउ मनहु विसारीऐ ॥

maataa kay udar meh partipaal karay so ki-o manhu visaaree-ai.

He nourished us in the mother's womb; why forget Him from the mind?

ਮਨਹੁ ਕਿਉ ਵਿਸਾਰੀਐ ਏਵਡੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਜਿ ਅਗਨਿ ਮਹਿ ਆਹਾਰੁ ਪਹੁਚਾਵਏ ॥

मनहु किउ विसारीऐ एवडु दाता जि अगनि महि आहारु पहुचावए ॥

manhu ki-o visaaree-ai ayvad daataa je agan meh aahaar pahuchaava-ay.

Why forget from the mind such a Great Giver, who gave us sustenance in the fire of the womb?

ਓਸ ਨੋ ਕਿਹੁ ਪੋਹਿ ਨ ਸਕੀ ਜਿਸ ਨਉ ਆਪਣੀ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਵਏ ॥

ओस नो किहु पोहि न सकी जिस नउ आपणी लिव लावए ॥

os no kihu pohi na sakee jis na-o aapnee liv laav-ay.

Nothing can harm one, whom the Lord inspires to embrace His Love.

Ang 920

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

रामकली महला ५ ॥

raamkalee mehlaa 5.

Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:

ਓਅੰਕਾਰਿ ਏਕ ਧੁਨਿ ਏਕੈ ਏਕੈ ਰਾਗੁ ਅਲਾਪੈ ॥

ओअंकारि एक धुनि एकै एकै रागु अलापै ॥

o-ankaar ayk Dhun aikai aikai raag alaapai.

He sings the song of the One Universal Creator; he sings the tune of the One Lord.

ਏਕਾ ਦੇਸੀ ਏਕੁ ਦਿਖਾਵੈ ਏਕੋ ਰਹਿਆ ਬਿਆਪੈ ॥

एका देसी एकु दिखावै एको रहिआ बिआपै ॥

aykaa daysee ayk dikhaavai ayko rahi-aa bi-aapai.

He lives in the land of the One Lord, shows the way to the One Lord, and remains attuned to the One Lord.

ਏਕਾ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਏਕਾ ਹੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਏਕੋ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਜਾਪੈ ॥੧॥

एका सुरति एका ही सेवा एको गुर ते जापै ॥१॥

aykaa surat aykaa hee sayvaa ayko gur tay jaapai. ||1||

He centers his consciousness on the One Lord, and serves only the One Lord, who is known through the Guru. ||1||

ਭਲੋ ਭਲੋ ਰੇ ਕੀਰਤਨੀਆ ॥

भलो भलो रे कीरतनीआ ॥

bhalo bhalo ray keeratnee-aa.

Blessed and good is such a kirtanee, who sings such Praises.

ਰਾਮ ਰਮਾ ਰਾਮਾ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਉ ॥

राम रमा रामा गुन गाउ ॥

raam ramaa raamaa gun gaa-o.

He sings the Glorious Praises of the Lord,

ਛੋਡਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੇ ਧੰਧ ਸੁਆਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

छोडि माइआ के धंध सुआउ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

chhod maa-i-aa kay DhanDh su-aa-o. ||1|| rahaa-o.

and renounces the entanglements and pursuits of Maya. ||1||Pause||

ਪੰਚ ਬਜਿਤ੍ਰ ਕਰੇ ਸੰਤੋਖਾ ਸਾਤ ਸੁਰਾ ਲੈ ਚਾਲੈ ॥

पंच बजित्र करे संतोखा सात सुरा लै चालै ॥

panch baajitar karay santokhaa saat suraa lai chaalai.

He makes the five virtues, like contentment, his musical instruments, and plays the seven notes of the love of the Lord.

ਬਾਜਾ ਮਾਣੁ ਤਾਣੁ ਤਜਿ ਤਾਨਾ ਪਾਉ ਨ ਬੀਗਾ ਘਾਲੈ ॥

बाजा माणु ताणु तजि ताना पाउ न बीगा घालै ॥

baajaa maan taan taj taanaa paa-o na beegaa ghaalai.

The notes he plays are the renunciation of pride and power; his feet keep the beat on the straight path.

ਫੇਰੀ ਫੇਰੁ ਨ ਹੋਵੈ ਕਬ ਹੀ ਏਕੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੰਧਿ ਪਾਲੈ ॥੨॥

फेरी फेरु न होवै कब ही एकु सबदु बंधि पालै ॥२॥

fayree fayr na hovai kab hee ayk sabad banDh paalai. ||2||

He does not enter the cycle of reincarnation ever again; he keeps the One Word of the Shabad tied to the hem of his robe. ||2||

ਨਾਰਦੀ ਨਰਹਰ ਜਾਣਿ ਹਦੂਰੇ ॥

नारदी नरहर जाणि हदूरे ॥

naardee narhar jaan hadooray.

To play like Naarad, is to know that the Lord is ever-present.

ਘੂੰਘਰ ਖੜਕੁ ਤਿਆਗਿ ਵਿਸੂਰੇ ॥

घूंघर खड़कु तिआगि विसूरे ॥

ghoongar kharhak ti-aag visooray.

The tinkling of the ankle bells is the shedding of sorrows and worries.

ਸਹਜ ਅਨੰਦ ਦਿਖਾਵੈ ਭਾਵੈ ॥

सहज अनंद दिखावै भावै ॥

sahj anand dikhaavai bhaavai.

The dramatic gestures of acting are celestial bliss.

ਏਹੁ ਨਿਰਤਿਕਾਰੀ ਜਨਮਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ॥੩॥

एहु निरतिकारी जनमि न आवै ॥३॥

ayhu nirtikaaree janam na aavai. ||3||

Such a dancer is not reincarnated again. ||3||

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਅਪਨੇ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਭਾਵੈ ॥

जे को अपने ठाकुर भावै ॥

jay ko apnay thaakur bhaavai.

If anyone, becomes pleasing to his Lord and Master,

ਕੋਟਿ ਮਧਿ ਏਹੁ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਗਾਵੈ ॥

कोटि मधि एहु कीरतनु गावै ॥

kot maDh ayhu keertan gaavai.

out of millions of people, he sings the Lord's Praises in this way.

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਕੀ ਜਾਵਉ ਟੇਕ ॥

साधसंगति की जावउ टेक ॥

saaDhsangat kee jaava-o tayk.

I have taken the Support of the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸੁ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਏਕ ॥੪॥੮॥

कहु नानक तिसु कीरतनु एक ॥४॥८॥

kaho naanak tis keertan ayk. ||4||8||

Says Nanak, the Kirtan of the One Lord's Praises are sung there. ||4||8||

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

रामकली महला ५ ॥

raamkalee mehlaa 5.

Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:

ਕੋਈ ਬੋਲੈ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਮ ਕੋਈ ਖੁਦਾਇ ॥

कोई बोलै राम राम कोई खुदाइ ॥

ko-ee bolai raam raam ko-ee khudaa-ay.

Some call Him, 'Raam, Raam', and some call Him, 'Khudaa-i'.

ਕੋਈ ਸੇਵੈ ਗੁਸਈਆ ਕੋਈ ਅਲਾਹਿ ॥੧॥

कोई सेवै गुसईआ कोई अलाहि ॥१॥

ko-ee sayvai gus-ee-aa ko-ee alaahi. ||1||

Some serve Him as 'Gusain', others as 'Allaah'. ||1||

ਕਾਰਣ ਕਰਣ ਕਰੀਮ ॥

कारण करण करीम ॥

kaaran karan kareem.

He is the Cause of causes, the Generous Lord.

ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰਿ ਰਹੀਮ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

किरपा धारि रहीम ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

kirpaa Dhaar raheem. ||1|| rahaa-o.

He showers His Grace and Mercy upon us. ||1||Pause||

ਕੋਈ ਨਾਵੈ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਕੋਈ ਹਜ ਜਾਇ ॥

कोई नावै तीरथि कोई हज जाइ ॥

ko-ee naavai tirath ko-ee haj jaa-ay.

Some bathe at sacred shrines of pilgrimage, and some make the pilgrimage to Mecca.|

ਕੋਈ ਕਰੈ ਪੂਜਾ ਕੋਈ ਸਿਰੁ ਨਿਵਾਇ ॥੨॥

कोई करै पूजा कोई सिरु निवाइ ॥२॥

ko-ee karai poojaa ko-ee sir nivaa-ay. ||2||

Some perform devotional worship services, and some bow their heads in prayer. ||2||

ਕੋਈ ਪੜੈ ਬੇਦ ਕੋਈ ਕਤੇਬ ॥

कोई पड़ै बेद कोई कतेब ॥

ko-ee parhai bayd ko-ee katayb.

Some read the Vedas, and some the Koran.

ਕੋਈ ਓਢੈ ਨੀਲ ਕੋਈ ਸੁਪੇਦ ॥੩॥

कोई ओढै नील कोई सुपेद ॥३॥

ko-ee odhai neel ko-ee supayd. ||3||

Some wear blue robes, and some wear white. ||3||

ਕੋਈ ਕਹੈ ਤੁਰਕੁ ਕੋਈ ਕਹੈ ਹਿੰਦੂ ॥

कोई कहै तुरकु कोई कहै हिंदू ॥

ko-ee kahai turak ko-ee kahai hindoo.

Some call themselves Muslim, and some call themselves Hindu.

ਕੋਈ ਬਾਛੈ ਭਿਸਤੁ ਕੋਈ ਸੁਰਗਿੰਦੂ ॥੪॥

कोई बाछै भिसतु कोई सुरगिंदू ॥४॥

ko-ee baachhai bhisat ko-ee surgindoo. ||4||

Some yearn for paradise, and others long for heaven. ||4||

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਨਿ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪਛਾਤਾ ॥

कहु नानक जिनि हुकमु पछाता ॥

kaho naanak jin hukam pachhaataa.

Says Nanak, one who realizes the Hukam of God's Will,

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕਾ ਤਿਨਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਜਾਤਾ ॥੫॥੯॥

प्रभ साहिब का तिनि भेदु जाता ॥५॥९॥

parabh saahib kaa tin bhayd jaataa. ||5||9||

knows the secrets of his Lord and Master. ||5||9||

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

रामकली महला ५ ॥

raamkalee mehlaa 5.

Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:

ਪਵਨੈ ਮਹਿ ਪਵਨੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥

पवनै महि पवनु समाइआ ॥

pavnai meh pavan samaa-i-aa.

The wind merges into the wind.

ਜੋਤੀ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਰਲਿ ਜਾਇਆ ॥

जोती महि जोति रलि जाइआ ॥

jotee meh jot ral jaa-i-aa.

The light blends into the light.

ਮਾਟੀ ਮਾਟੀ ਹੋਈ ਏਕ ॥

माटी माटी होई एक ॥

maatee maatee ho-ee ayk.

The dust becomes one with the dust.

ਰੋਵਨਹਾਰੇ ਕੀ ਕਵਨ ਟੇਕ ॥੧॥

रोवनहारे की कवन टेक ॥१॥

rovanhaaray kee kavan tayk. ||1||

What support is there for the one who is lamenting? ||1||

ਕਉਨੁ ਮੂਆ ਰੇ ਕਉਨੁ ਮੂਆ ॥

कउनु मूआ रे कउनु मूआ ॥

ka-un moo-aa ray ka-un moo-aa.

Who has died? O, who has died?

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਮਿਲਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ ਇਹੁ ਤਉ ਚਲਤੁ ਭਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ब्रहम गिआनी मिलि करहु बीचारा इहु तउ चलतु भइआ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

barahm gi-aanee mil karahu beechaaraa ih ta-o chalat bha-i-aa. ||1|| rahaa-o.

O God-realized beings, meet together and consider this. What a wondrous thing has happened! ||1||Pause||

ਅਗਲੀ ਕਿਛੁ ਖਬਰਿ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥

अगली किछु खबरि न पाई ॥

aglee kichh khabar na paa-ee.

No one knows what happens after death.

ਰੋਵਨਹਾਰੁ ਭਿ ਊਠਿ ਸਿਧਾਈ ॥

रोवनहारु भि ऊठि सिधाई ॥

rovanhaar bhe ooth siDhaa-ee.

The one who is lamenting will also arise and depart.

ਭਰਮ ਮੋਹ ਕੇ ਬਾਂਧੇ ਬੰਧ ॥

भरम मोह के बांधे बंध ॥

bharam moh kay baaNDhay banDh.

Mortal beings are bound by the bonds of doubt and attachment.

ਸੁਪਨੁ ਭਇਆ ਭਖਲਾਏ ਅੰਧ ॥੨॥

सुपनु भइआ भखलाए अंध ॥२॥

supan bha-i-aa bhakhlaa-ay anDh. ||2||

When life becomes a dream, the blind man babbles and grieves in vain. ||2||

ਇਹੁ ਤਉ ਰਚਨੁ ਰਚਿਆ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ ॥

इहु तउ रचनु रचिआ करतारि ॥

ih ta-o rachan rachi-aa kartaar.

The Creator Lord created this creation.

ਆਵਤ ਜਾਵਤ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਅਪਾਰਿ ॥

आवत जावत हुकमि अपारि ॥

aavat jaavat hukam apaar.

It comes and goes, subject to the Will of the Infinite Lord.

ਨਹ ਕੋ ਮੂਆ ਨ ਮਰਣੈ ਜੋਗੁ ॥

नह को मूआ न मरणै जोगु ॥

nah ko moo-aa na marnai jog.

No one dies; no one is capable of dying.

ਨਹ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਹੋਗੁ ॥੩॥

नह बिनसै अबिनासी होगु ॥३॥

nah binsai abhinaasee hog. ||3||

The soul does not perish; it is imperishable. ||3||

ਜੋ ਇਹੁ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਸੋ ਇਹੁ ਨਾਹਿ ॥

जो इहु जाणहु सो इहु नाहि ॥

jo ih jaanhu so ih naahi.

That which is known, does not exist.

ਜਾਨਣਹਾਰੇ ਕਉ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ ॥

जानणहारे कउ बलि जाउ ॥

jaananhaaray ka-o bal jaa-o.

I am a sacrifice to the one who knows this.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਿ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਇਆ ॥

कहु नानक गुरि भरमु चुकाइआ ॥

kaho naanak gur bharam chukaa-i-aa.

Says Nanak, the Guru has dispelled my doubt.

ਨਾ ਕੋਈ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇਆ ॥੪॥੧੦॥

ना कोई मरै न आवै जाइआ ॥४॥१०॥

naa ko-ee marai na aavai jaa-i-aa. ||4||10||

No one dies; no one comes or goes. ||4||10||

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

रामकली महला ५ ॥

raamkalee mehlaa 5.

Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:

ਜਪਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਲਾਲੁ ॥

जपि गोबिंदु गोपाल लालु ॥

jap gobind gopaal laal.

Meditate on the Lord of the Universe, the Beloved Lord of the World.

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਤੂ ਜੀਵਹਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਨ ਖਾਈ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਲੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

राम नाम सिमरि तू जीवहि फिरि न खाई महा कालु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

raam naam simar too jeeveh fir na khaa-ee mahaa kaal. ||1|| rahaa-o.

Meditating in remembrance on the Lord's Name, you shall live, and the Great Death shall not consume you ever again. ||1||Pause||

ਕੋਟਿ ਜਨਮ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਆਇਓ ॥

कोटि जनम भ्रमि भ्रमि भ्रमि आइओ ॥

kot janam bharam bharam bharam aa-i-o.

Through millions of incarnations, you have come, wandering, wandering, wandering.

Ang 885

then show where is the contradiction or is it in you mind.Sprit is deemed as not dying after body ends and sprit may gets another body.show the conbtradiction.Das challenges you!

BUt yuo have so far not understtod Dulity so you do Shirk and make your self as Shareek of God.

As God is in all so our exsitance are apprant,Absolute is Allah.who makes us think we do,we are bron and we die and we are reborn.Actualy,As Allah is absorbed in.so even when Das types on keyborads,it is apperant as the fingers of Das,keyborad and space inbetween Allah is everwhere and n nothing but Allah so no action in Absoloute way but Allah is there.

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Gurfateh

There are no contradictions in the Qu’ran, I challenge anyone to present them here.

Well das may not do that sin as western do but what about saying Allah in all direction but bowing to Qibla.Das kn ows the answer better then,you and das answered this thing voer again.But as you Eog has imagined Allah so have idolised Allah and made form of it.This contradiction in you bigot mind.Answer this contrdiction?

Then at some places it is writan that Let yor faith be OK with yuo and let My faith be OK with with Me.while there are other places where Jehad is interpreted to Attack others.

It is not the contradiction of Holy Kuran but yous interprting the holy Kuran.Das can write more if you want.

The Bible is inauthentic, it has not been preserved, and has been used and abused by the Catholic Church to justify their oppression throughout the ages.

Like you say about Holy Bible and das does not like this thing towarda antoher Holy Book anyway.

Let us see.

Many Jews and Chrsitians say that Holy Kuran is not authantic and it is tool of Arbic nationism.so If das had to belive them by just saying that then das could be in fix as you say contradictory.whom should das follow?

anyway as per mnay of tyhe Muslims of this time.Kuran as told by you in inauthantic and is the handiwork of Evil Four Khalifas.Das can name Ahamdis,Bahais but they are apostates from Islam,but what will you do with Shias and Sufi lie Chistis.

All are wrong and your precetion is OK.Such guys are here in Sikhism also.But he keep tab on them.

By the way do you know that there are Orthodox Churches also.who reamined often under Muslim rule and they may be Anti Catholics but there bible is same that of Catholics.Aemenians,Abisinians,Alexendirans,Marthamas(these guys lived in Inidan under Hindu rool sicne the time of St.Thomas the Apostale.some time when das was in Army of West,they use to think that they may nunke Saudai Arebia.Persopn like you will force them to do like that.

and this time as people like you are defedning Islakm allah will not send the Army of HUDHUD or hoppes who pelted stone on Elephants Army Attacking Mecca.

Where is your description of the Universes origins then? Its not in the SGGS, its your own theory.

das told you before.Frog of Well says there is no sea,Where isthe sea.

See ang 19.

ਸਾਚੇ ਤੇ ਪਵਨਾ ਭਇਆ ਪਵਨੈ ਤੇ ਜਲੁ ਹੋਇ ॥

साचे ते पवना भइआ पवनै ते जलु होइ ॥

saachay tay pavnaa bha-i-aa pavnai tay jal ho-ay.

From the True Lord came the air, and from the air came water.

ਜਲ ਤੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਸਾਜਿਆ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮੋਇ ॥

जल ते त्रिभवणु साजिआ घटि घटि जोति समोइ ॥

jal tay taribhavan saaji-aa ghat ghat jot samo-ay.

From water, He created the three worlds; in each and every heart He has infused His Light.

ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਮੈਲਾ ਨਾ ਥੀਐ ਸਬਦਿ ਰਤੇ ਪਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥੩॥

निरमलु मैला ना थीऐ सबदि रते पति होइ ॥३॥

nirmal mailaa naa thee-ai sabad ratay pat ho-ay. ||3||

The Immaculate Lord does not become polluted. Attuned to the Shabad, honor is obtained. ||3||

and read Dasham Granth also.Where coming of Rasool is also being writtan and Rasool is termed as Rasool and Holy Kuran as word of God.

And to your shock as per Dasham Granth Allah will sent Mehdi Meer,who in our scriputre kill Hindu Avtar Kalki,who will misguide people to worship him,then Allah.So Dajjal is not there.And at Last Mehdi will be misguided too and Allah will let him die with an insect entering his ears.

sridasam.org

The Qu’ran is the speech of Allah(swt), and it is guaranteed that until someone can prove the Qu’ran false, then Gods promise is that he will judge us for our actions on earth and will reward or punish us therein.

Allah is Master of Universe or Rab Ul Almeen and not you Serevent or some one eqaul to you.Do not treat Allah as your servent or salve that Allah can be influenced by your deeds and will work as you want Allah to work.

Be Muslim,surrender your self to Allah.Allah takes care of you.Allah makes you and Allah makes all thing to work as Allah wants.So do not behold your existance as true that Allah will take notice of you.If you say that you are something then you go in duality/DujaBhav/Shirk.yuo become Shareek of Allah.

Holy Kuran is not False but false are those who do not contemplate on that.and you try to make false interpetaions over Holy Kuran and over Private life of Rasool so that you let your Pagan Arebic or Hethan things could be manitained and let Beliver exploti non beliver and let male domniate female.Allah Hafiz.

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Sorry have not read all the posts, just the first one.

Let me say that I do like your user name. Sikh2Islam – means 1 Sikh is worth at least 2 mussulmans, plus the fact you have Sikh first means your subconscious is crying out to become a Sikh.

You have obviously taken a lot of time and effort to start this thread. Unfortunately you are wasting your time. Your life is slowly ebbing away, and rather then meditate and concentrate on the one almighty God who pervades the whole universe you busy yourself in a time wasting futile pursuit, spreading misinformation and lies. You will only recognise this once you have breathed your last breath and you realise that your whole life has been a giant waste of time, no Allah will be there to protect you then, no 72 virgins for your beck and call, just a dark cold void - with an elevator to the basement!

Firstly tell me about this : "al-Taqiyaa" means: "Concealing or disguising one's beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and strategies." In Arabic the translation is "hypocrisy in the pursuit of a greater purpose." And this word "al Taqqiyaa" gives its followers religious authorisation to tell lies even if it contradicts what is stated in the Q'uran and Hadiths if it means one can bring someone into the fold.

So, when reading or debating against these misguided people please be aware of this tactic.

Is Guru Nanak a False Prophet?

Guru Nanak Dev Ji never claimed to be anything, just a servant of the Almighty. It is only those who are full of ego that claim to be prophets, only they say “follow me for I am the only wayâ€

Are the Sikh Scriptures authentic?

Sikh scriptures are absolutely authentic, as they were written down word for word by Guru Arjun Dev Ji. There is no contradiction on Guru Granth Sahib Ji at all. Your trouble is that you will take a line here and a line there and makeup an argument which is so childish it is not worth responding over.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a divinely revealed scripture. There are many occasions when this is made clear in Guru Granth Sahib Ji :

jaisee mai aavai khusum kee baanee thaisurraa kuree giaan vae laalo ||

As the Word of the Forgiving Lord comes to me, so do I express it, O Lalo. (p722).

sathigur kee baanee sath sath kar jaanuhu gurasikhuhu har kuruthaa aap muhuhu kudtaaeae ||

O GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it. (p308)

There are many more examples where it is made clear that the bani in Guru Granth Sahib is the word of God.

In Guru Granth Sahib Ji, there is also the bani composed through different bhatts (bards) and bhagats who were Sikhs of the Guru and inspired to recite as well. The Bhatts were given initiation by the Guru and although they were a wandering group of minstrels, they ended up staying with the Guru for the rest of their lives, singing his praises. They describe the mystical experiences and sights they've seen and show how amazing and great Guru Nanak is. Let us not forget that the Bhagats were no ordinary men, their spirituality was of the highest order and their Bhagat bani in Guru Granth sahib Ji is not found in any of their own collections. For example, Bhagat Kabir's bani in Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not found in his Beejak or any of his collected works, it is unique to Guru Granth Sahib Ji because it is the word of God.

The Bani they recited after becoming Sikhs is the one in Guru Granth Sahib Ji and not found in any of their works.

The belief that Guru Granth Sahib contains any passages from other religious texts or translations of them is totally false. Guru Arjun Dev Ji personally overlooked all aspects of the compilation of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and whose shabads are the most. These were direct revelations from God as was all the bani from all the Gurus and Bhagats.

This is very much contrary to the quran texts that was compiled many years after the prophet died In fact the Mohommed was illiterate so how could he have written down or understood any alleged revelations to him?

Actually the Sahib Siri Guru Granth sahib is the only religious composition written by those chosen by God, i.e. The Guru’s themselves.

No other religion can claim this. The Koran was written not by a prophet, but 50 years after Mohammed passed away. Mohammed himself was illiterate, so did not write anything.

The kabba and the Hajj is also a form of big idol worship is it not ?.

The Bible was written by the gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, none of them contemporaries of Jesus and written at least 50-100 years after Jesus.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not narrate the life story of Guru Nanak Dev Ji , but each and every word is dedicated to the Glory of the Almighty Divine Being only. It is not a reproduction of earlier religions, but the Divine Word (Gurbani) came to the Gurus, and 15 Bhagats, 17 Bards, & 4 devotees (who all shared the same Dharam of Naam & Gurmat), direct from God. Guru Nanak Ji stated that it was not his philosophy, it was not his understanding and it was not his thinking, but the Word was coming to him direct from God and he was simply delivering His message to the wGuru Granth Sahib Ji was not written by the devotees after the Gurus had gone, but it was dictated and compiled by the Gurus themselves. Thus it is the Authentic Divine Scripture. No body is allowed to change even a comma or a period out of 1430 angs (pages). The Seventh Nanak's son, Ram Rai, changed the meaning of only one verse to please the Emperor, Aurangzeb, upon which he was excommunicated for ever by his father (the Seventh Nanak), thereby establishing the fact that no one could ever change the God's Word, the Gurbani.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is numerically structured which acts as a central locking system. The numerical system ensures that no-one can add their own hymn or Bani into the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The poetic beauty of Guru Granth Sahib ji ensures that no person can add an extra word to the Guru Granth Sahib, which would disrupt the flowing poetry. The Tenth Nanak made five copies of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji which he dictated and signed. One Volume was taken by Ahmed Shah Abdali and the whereabouts is unknown. However the other four Volumes are preserved at the Takhat Sahibaans (Sri Hazoor Sahib, Sri Patna Sahib, Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib, & Sri Kesgharh Sahib).

Max Arthur Macauliffe, an English writer, delivered a speech at Akal Bunga, Amritsar in 1899:

"There is another point to the merit of the Sikh religion that the founders of other religions in this world never wrote even one line with their own hands. You might have heard that there was a very famous Greek philosopher called Pythagoras who had many followers, but he never left behind anything written by him from which we could have known about the principles of his sect. After him came the second Greek philosopher named Socrates who was born in 500 B.C. He became a very famous religious leader who claimed that he was receiving Divine instructions from God within himself, which persuaded him to do good and prohibited from doing any evil deeds. But he too never left anything behind written by him which could have shed light on his philosophy and its principles. Whatever we know about him, has only come through the writings of his follower, Plato. Besides there came Mahatma Buddh in India and he never wrote anything with his hands. Then came Christ who did not write anything himself either. His teachings are only known through the Bible which was written by others. Then came Muhammad who was illiterate who also did not write down anything. However the Sikh Gurus acted quite opposite to all these religious leaders that they themselves dictated their message of Truth and compiled Guru Granth Sahib. In this respect the Sikh religion is far ahead than others."

How can Re-Incarnation be Accurate

Tell me, reincarnation is not right, yet being stuck in a grave for eons until judgement day is?

Here is a fundamental question that Islam CANNOT answer.

If a baby is born and screams one scream and then dies, what will happen to its soul? What was the purpose of its existence?

If we believe in one coming and one going, then the birth of this baby makes no sense. It had no life to live and could not do anything and so will it go to Heaven or Hell? And why did God give this person such a short life in which it could do nothing?

No answer can be given to this question by Islam.

On the other hand, Sikhism believes that everything is a result of karma. The child's karma, due to its past actions resulted in this one act that it must perform before its demise, once its karma was completed it left the world on its continuing journey towards the Almighty. A human can only break free from the eternal circle of life and death by meditating on Gurmat Naam and immersing the self into Akaal.

Let us take the concept of the Day of Judgement. Islam believes that on this day all will rise from the dead and the dead will be judged. Now, this Day of Judgement is a long way off. What happens when a person dies and is buried and his body decomposes, and in time that soil is used to nurture plant life which in turn gets eaten by another human being.

When this second person dies and is buried who will rise on the Day of Judgement?

Will it be the original person or the second person who has consumed the first? How can it be the first person since he is now part of the second? Since people have been living and dying for thousands of years and will continue to do so then how will the original people rise from their graves when they are now part of a myriad of other life forms? This body is but a mere vessel for our atma or soul, once we die we have no use for it and it is discarded, hence the reason why Sikhs creamate rather then bury thier dead.

Sikhism believes that it is the soul that is eternal not the body, the body is just a shell that we discard when we die.

According to Sikhism, when a person dies, his soul is taken to the court of Dharam Rai. This is a very painful journey in which the soul of the manmukh (one without the Guru) encounters much hardship. Once in the court of Dharam Rai, his account of deeds is read to him and he cannot deny anything. He cries that he did not take advantage of human life and become one with Akaal. He is then given his sentence. This will be according to the fruits of his deeds. Heaven and Hell are not permanent places. They are not where a Sikh wishes to go. They are simply transitory places where one receives either pleasure or pain.

To deceive a person into converting to ones own faith is a mighty sin and punishable when one passes into the afterlife. There are NO 72 virgins to command at your whim. There is no carnal knowledge with these maidens, there is no lakes of wine, the people who believe in this have been sold lies. Just think about it, why would God need to entice people towards Him with false pleasures, the love of Him should be more then enough. These are all lies to lock people into a particular doctrine. Sikhs do not need to offer any such enticements; their love for their Guru is enough.

There are five Khands or realms: the first is Dharam Khand in which all souls must appear to receive their account in the court of Dharam Rai. The next realm is Giaan Khand in which reside countless gods and goddesses and angels and also beings like Buddha and other prophets. After this realm is Sharam Khand. Sharam Khand is a level that cannot be understood by the human mind. In it, the mind and intellect are re-shaped to see and understand new realities.

All the above mentioned places: heaven, hell, Dharam Khand, Gian Khand, Sharam Khand are all transitory. Beyond these are "true" realms. These are Karam Khand and Sach Khand. Karam Khand is for true devotees of Akaal who have meditated on him and Sach Khand is where Gursikhs go who have meditated on Gurmat Naam and become one with God. Here they are forever immersed in bliss and unity with God and forever sing his praises.

Clearly then, this system is different than any other faith. It is not "borrowed" from or has connection with Hinduism.

In Islam, Sufis believed in reincarnation. Consider the following poem by Rumi, the greatest Sufi mystic of the Persian world:

I died as a mineral and became a plant,

I died as plant and rose to animal,

I died as animal and I was Man.

Why should I fear? When was I less by dying?

Yet once more I shall die as Man, to soar

With angels blest; but even from angelhood

I must pass on: all except God doth perish.

When I have sacrificed my angel-soul,

I shall become what no mind e'er conceived.

Oh, let me not exist! for Non-existence

Proclaims in organ tones, To Him we shall return.

In his Masnavi, Rumi speaks about the "seventy-two forms I have worn".

Modern Sufis who embrace the idea of reincarnation include Bawa Muhaiyadeen and Hazrat Inayat Khan .

How can God be Omnipotent and within Evil?

God is everywhere. He is within each and every one of us, he is in the animals and the plants. He is in the sea and in the very air that we breathe. Like a fish cannot live without water, we cannot live without God. God did not create this world and then step back from it, He is actively involved in everything that we do.

God watches over us when we do good and when we do bad. God is also with us when we perform our bodily functions, why shouldn’t he be? He created us and the way we are so why would he leave us? A mother is not disgusted when her child goes to the bathroom, in fact she cleaned and cared for him for many years with love and devotion so why would God, the father of all humanity , feel any different about his children? Many faiths regard God as some far of entity who has created this world but resides separate from it. They look up to the skies to find Him, they renounce everything and wonder off into the wilderness in search of Him, they face a particular direction in the hope of winning favour with Him. But what they do not realise it the very thing they are looking for is in fact residing within themselves.

How can Sikhs claim to have a complete way of Life?

Tell me does the quran tell how to wipe your back side ? then it is no complete. Sounds silly doesnt it. That is how silly you sound. Guru Granth sahib Ji is not some sort of intruction manual, it is a revelation form the Almighty to the path of righteousness that leads to salvation. God has also given all of us a brain and a mind, please use it.

Sikhism is not in the business of making prophecies, we leave this up to the charlatans, the conjurers, the tricksters, the Nosrtodamus type fraudsters. Sikhism is not impressed with prophecies and miracles to win over new converts. The Guru's insisted that the message should speak for itself. Although Sikh history is filled with amazing miracles, they were not done for show purposes or to impress. Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not a book of prophecies, it is a scripture that leads one to the realisation of God and inspires love and tolerance.

Your question is laughable. Does the quran give the mileage between London and Birmingham? So it is not complete! Ridiculous arguments by ridiculous people

It is incredulous that anything calling itself “the modern religion†still does not emancipate women and give them independence.

LOL, this makes me laugh, coming from a faith who regard women as dirt., where they have to cover up from headto toe, where a man only has to say “I divorce, I divorce, I divorce†and it is done, where a womans testimony is woth nothing, ha ha hah .

Is this the same woman that the qoran says you can beat and keep in its place ?

ONLY in Sikhism is woman given such a high status. Look at how the Gurus praise women.

"We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman. We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman. We grow up stronger and wiser having drunk milk from the breast of woman. Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings? The woman is born from

woman; there is none without her. Only the One True Lord is without woman" (Guru Nanak Dev, Var Asa, p. 473)

Marriage is an equal partnership of love and sharing between husband and wife.

"They are not husband and wife, who merely sit together. Rather they alone are called husband and wife, who have one spirit in two bodies." (Guru Amar Das, Pauri, p 788)

Women have an equal right to participate in the congregation.

"Come my sisters and dear comrades! Clasp me in thine embrace. Meeting together, let us tell the tales of our Omnipotent Spouse (God). In the True Lord are all merits, in us all demerits." (Guru Nanak Dev, Sri Rag, p 17)

How can Sikhs Claim that there are “many paths to Godâ€, then he Punishes those whom do not adhere to Sikhism ?

This is a complete false argument that Sikhism believes all paths lead to the same goal and thus all religions are equal. From its very inception, Gurmat has been declared a unique and distinct path.

Bhai Gurdaas writes:

"the Guru has created the mighty Gurmukh panth. This panth keeps itself away from the boundaries of the Vedas and the Semitic scriptures..." (Bhai Gurdas, 23.19)

Guru Granth Sahib Ji over and over stresses the importance of "Gurmat Naam". Without Gurmat Naam no one can find God or reach sachkhand. Gurmat Naam is only available in the house of Guru Nanak: "Nanak kai ghar keval (only) , naam" .

So, unless someone receives Gurmat Naam from Guru Nanak, there is no liberation. They will be rewarded for their good deeds and good karma, but their will be no liberation.

Christians are content with heaven, and they will receive it. The Muslims also long for heaven but also lust after the 72 virgins but they will not get them, for they are decieved. But this heaven they speak of is only a temporary stage once they have completed their stay they will enter the cycle of births and deaths again, endless and ongoing. Only with Gods grace in their life will they one day come closer to liberation. Gurmat, the Guru's way, respects all religions and will go as far as saying that they are not sent to hell, but they will only get what they work for. All faiths will get what they work towards, but only Gurmat has a concept such as a true path to Satch Khand and God-realisation in such a clear way. Thus, Gurmat is the only path to Sach Khand and the ultimate merger with AkaalPurkh.

This question is based on the premise that the Semitic religions are true and come from God.

Although Sikhism respects all faiths, it rejects this assumption. On many occasions Guru Granth Sahib Ji speaks out against all other scriptures, on p1350, Guru Granth Sahib Ji says "Call the Vedas and the Semitic scriptures false teachings, false is that person who does not reflect." For Sikhism the path of the Gursikh is the True path, all others paths may have their merits but are found lacking.

In Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bani the first verse of Sudha Savaiyay clearly states that he himself has looked at every religion of this world but has found none reaching God. In the end Guru Ji writes that since they lack the real love for God, they are not worth even a cent (rattee).

So, it follows that the Semitic scriptures are not acknowledged in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The Gurus lived in an Islamic environment with total exposure to Islam. They were aware of all these stories, but rejected them.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji in the Bachittar Natak (Wonderous Drama) writes how the Almighty created prophet after prophet and sent them to show people the right path but again and again they failed in their task and instead set themselves up as objects of worship instead. Dasam Granth: Bachittar Natak .p130

Whosoever attained a little spiritual power, he started his own path

None could comprehend the Lord, but instead became mad with ‘I-ness’ (ego) .|16|

Nobody recognized the Supreme Essence, but was entangled within themselves.

All the great rishis (sages), who were then created, produced their own Simritis. |17|

All those who became followers of these smritis, they abandoned the path of the Lord.

Those who devoted themselves to the Feet of the Lord, they did not adopt the path of the Simritis. |18|

Brahma composed all the four Vedas, all the people followed the injunctions contained in them.

Those who were devoted to the Feet of the Lord, they abandoned the Vedas. |19|

Those who abandoned the path of the Vedas and Katebs(semitic scriptures) , they became the devotees of the Lord.

Whosoever follows their path, He crushes various types of sufferings. |20|

Those who consider the castes illusory, they do not abandon the love of the Lord.

When they leave the world, they go to the abode of the Lord, and there is no difference between them and the Lord. |21|

Those who fear the castes and follow their path, abandoning the Supreme Lord.

They fall into hell and transmigrate again and again. |22|

Then I(God) created Dutt, who also started his own path.

His followers have long nail in their hands and matted hair on their heads . They did not understand the ways of the Lord. |23|

Then I(God) created Gorakh, who made great kings his disciples.

His disciples wear rings in their ears and do not know the love of the lord. |24|

Then I(God) created Ramanand, who adopted the path of a Bairagi.

Around his neck he wore necklace of wooden beads and did not comprehend the ways of the Lord. |25|

All the great Purushas created by me started their own paths.

Then I(God) created Mohammed, who was made the master of Arabia. |26|

He started a religion and circumcised all the kings.

He caused all to utter his name and did not give the True Name of the Lord with firmness to anyone. |27|

Everyone placed his own interest first and foremost and did not comprehend the Supreme Brahman.

When I was busy in the austere devotion, the Lord called me and sent me to this world with the following words. |28|

“You go therefore for the spread of Dharma (righteousness) and cause people to retrace their steps from evil actionsâ€. |29|

I stood up with folded hands and bowing down my head, I said:

“The Panth (Your faith) shall prevail only in the world, with THY ASSISTANCE.†|30|

For this reason the Lord sent me and I was born in this world.

Whatever the Lord said, I am repeating the same unto you, I do not bear enmity with anyone. |31|

DOHRA

Someone studies the Quran and someone studies the Puranas.

Mere reading cannot save one from death. Therefore such works are vain and do not help at the time of death.|47|

CHAUPAI

Millions of people recite the Quran and many study Puranas without understanding the crux.

It will be of no use at the time of death and none will be saved. |48|

O Brother! Why do you not meditate on Him, who will help you at the time of death?

Consider the vain religions as illusory, because they do not serve our purpose (of life). |49|

For this reason the Lord created me and sent me in this world, telling me the secret.

Whatever He told me, I say unto you, there is not even a little here-say in it. |50|

RASAAVAL STANZA

I neither wear matted hair on the head nor bedeck myself with ear-rings.

I meditate on the Name of the Lord, which helps me in all my errands.51.

Neither I close my eyes, nor exhibit heresy.

Nor perform evil actions, nor cause others to call me a person in disguise. |52|

CHAUPAI

Those persons who adopt different guises are never liked by the men of God.

All of you may understand this that God is absent form all these guises. |53|

Those who exhibit various garbs through various actions, they never get release in the next world.

While alive, their worldly desires may be fulfilled and the king may be pleased on seeing their mimicry. |54|

The Lord-God is not present in such mimics, even if all the places be searched by all.

Only those who have controlled their minds, recognized the Supreme Brahman. |55|

DOHRA

Those who exhibit various guises in the world and win people on their side,

They will reside in hell, when the sword of death chops them. |56|

CHAUPAI

Those who quarrel in ego, they are far removed from the Lord.

O men of God ! Understand this that the Lord doth not reside in Vedas and katebs. |61|

He, who exhibits heresy in closing his eyes, attains the state of blindness.

By closing the eyes one cannot know the path, how can then, O brother! He meet the Infinite Lord? |62|

To what extent, the details be given? When one understands, he feels tired.

If one is blessed with millions of tongues, even then he feels them short in number, (while singing the Praises of the Lord) |63|

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From what I have read of your post Sikh2, you have a very limited understanding of Sikhism and you pluck lines without reading the whole shabad, hence your total misunderstanding.

You say : According to Guru Nanak Dev, he claims that “God himself told me that he is self-createdâ€.

Don't konw where you have got this from mate, but it is totally untrue. Guru Nanak Dev Ji said that God has ALWAYS existed, still exists and ALWAYS will exist.

This is the quote, not your twisted version. If all your quotes are of this calibre then there is little reason to discuss further, as all your quotes are based upon lies, oh sorry I forgot, you are licensed to tell lies and spread misinformation from the outset.

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Sorry yaar your arguments are very silly indeed.

You say : What is the ruling in Sikhism regarding riding a horse?

so, in the quran it must say something about riding a horse, big deal. Do you not have a brain, do you not have a mind, do you yourself not know whether you can ride a horse or not ? What about a donkey? or a pig?

The quran still says the earth is flat !!!

The quran says that the moon is some sort of sacred place, you lot soon changed your tune when the Americans (God bless their souls) set foot on it.

I have a question for you.

Does God love the PIG?

Surely He must, since he created it He must love it. And if God loves the PIG, then why do you lot loath it soooooo much. You are going against the will of God so you are bad people!

You say that everyone is born a muslim, let me tell you, when you enter the womb you are a SIKH, for you are totally natural with a full head of hair.

When you are born and you cut his/her hair and chop of his you-know-what only then does a person change to a mussalman.

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Hi all,

Heres my latest response. I look forward to hearing from you. I am going to respond all the points raised, but as its only me, it will take a while.

I also want to thank all the Sikhs on this forum for keeping the debate relatively civilized and not banning me. It shows that you are a lot more sincere to dialogue than many others.

Let me say that I do like your user name. Sikh2Islam – means 1 Sikh is worth at least 2 mussulmans, plus the fact you have Sikh first means your subconscious is crying out to become a Sikh.

Your love of Mathematics deceives you. You will see Sikh2Isalm is a linguistic name, implying the gravitation of former Sikhs to the Religion of truth, Islam.

You have obviously taken a lot of time and effort to start this thread. Unfortunately you are wasting your time.

Yes, I cannot deny it has not taken time. However, I believe, as many former Sikhs believe, that time expended in the course of Dawah is time worth spent, especially if I can guide Sikhs to the truth. Whether I am wasting my time or not will be judged by Allah(swt).

Your life is slowly ebbing away, and rather then meditate and concentrate on the one almighty God who pervades the whole universe you busy yourself in a time wasting futile pursuit, spreading misinformation and lies. You will only recognise this once you have breathed your last breath and you realise that your whole life has been a giant waste of time, no Allah will be there to protect you then, no 72 virgins for your beck and call, just a dark cold void - with an elevator to the basement!

Fascinating that those who are blinded by Falsehood remain obsessed by sexual slander. The 72 Hourian are for those who are killed in the Way of Allah(swt), unless you are married in which case your wife is for you ( and she will be the most loving and beautiful). Women are given an Equal reward.

Whether I am spreading “misinformation and lies†is to be judged by the truth. “Behold we put the truth against the falsehood, and falsehood vanishesâ€. This is the purpose of dialogue, to establish the truth. Having converted already, I am open for the truth, I believe I have found it in Islam, but if anyone can prove the Qu’ran wrong, or Islam wrong, then I will continue searching. This is what sincerity is. I have no allegiance to falsehood if it can be demonstrated falsehood. No Nationalism, No Classism, No Castes, only the truth will I follow.

Firstly tell me about this : "al-Taqiyaa" means: "Concealing or disguising one's beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and strategies." In Arabic the translation is "hypocrisy in the pursuit of a greater purpose." And this word "al Taqqiyaa" gives its followers religious authorisation to tell lies even if it contradicts what is stated in the Q'uran and Hadiths if it means one can bring someone into the fold.

So, when reading or debating against these misguided people please be aware of this tactic.

This is from the Shia, a sect in Islam that do not represent my beliefs. I am a follower of Ahle as Sunnah, therefore Taqiyaa is completely prohibited for me as a muslim. Don’t believe me? Check it.

Is Guru Nanak a False Prophet?

Guru Nanak Dev Ji never claimed to be anything, just a servant of the Almighty. It is only those who are full of ego that claim to be prophets, only they say “follow me for I am the only wayâ€

Did you read my article? If you claim to be inspired by God, and that God is speaking to you, then you are claiming that you are a prophet.

Are the Sikh Scriptures authentic?

Sikh scriptures are absolutely authentic, as they were written down word for word by Guru Arjun Dev Ji. There is no contradiction on Guru Granth Sahib Ji at all. Your trouble is that you will take a line here and a line there and makeup an argument which is so childish it is not worth responding over.

Again read my posts, you will see that I have posted contradictions, and the reference.

Also, can Sikhs please decide amongst themselves what the SGGS is? One person is saying it is “writtenâ€, another says “speech of the Guruâ€, another says written according to the speech? Which one is it, according to sources, then we can continue to debate this “divinely recorded scriptureâ€.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a divinely revealed scripture. There are many occasions when this is made clear in Guru Granth Sahib Ji :

jaisee mai aavai khusum kee baanee thaisurraa kuree giaan vae laalo ||

As the Word of the Forgiving Lord comes to me, so do I express it, O Lalo. (p722).

sathigur kee baanee sath sath kar jaanuhu gurasikhuhu har kuruthaa aap muhuhu kudtaaeae ||

O GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it. (p308)

There are many more examples where it is made clear that the bani in Guru Granth Sahib is the word of God.

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. I am arguing that the SGGS cannot be a divinely revealed scripture because there is no proof of it being divine. What is the proof? Because it is in a book? If I write a book, and claim it is from God, will you believe me or call me a liar?

The belief that Guru Granth Sahib contains any passages from other religious texts or translations of them is totally false. Guru Arjun Dev Ji personally overlooked all aspects of the compilation of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and whose shabads are the most. These were direct revelations from God as was all the bani from all the Gurus and Bhagats.

So therefore there is no proof that they originate with Guru Nanak then, is there, other than Guru Arjans own testimony!

This is very much contrary to the quran texts that was compiled many years after the prophet died In fact the Mohommed was illiterate so how could he have written down or understood any alleged revelations to him?

The Qu’ran was memorized by people, from day one, verse by verse. It was compiled during the Prophets(saw) lifetime BY MEMORY. The Written version, which in Arabic is exactly the same as the memorized one, was compiled by Uthman (RA). The Qu’rans wording in Arabic has never, ever been in doubt by any historian, muslim or non-muslim.

Muhammad (saw) did not write anything, but had scribes. However, he memorized the revelations as they came, as did his companions. The Qurans authenticity has never been in question by those with knowledge.

The kabba and the Hajj is also a form of big idol worship is it not ?.

Why? It is a ritual act. It is through the performance of certain rituals that the reward is in, there is no “idol worshipâ€. What about when Sikhs become Khalsa / Amrit? That is not idol worship either, is it, yet it is at a certain place with certain actions!

The Bible was written by the gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, none of them contemporaries of Jesus and written at least 50-100 years after Jesus.

The Injeel (Bible new Testament ) was indeed compiled by Paul on his “road to Damascus†and therefore changed to suit Idolatrers. The original bible no longer exists, it was destroyed with Paul to suit his own aims.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not narrate the life story of Guru Nanak Dev Ji , but each and every word is dedicated to the Glory of the Almighty Divine Being only. It is not a reproduction of earlier religions, but the Divine Word (Gurbani) came to the Gurus, and 15 Bhagats, 17 Bards, & 4 devotees (who all shared the same Dharam of Naam & Gurmat), direct from God. Guru Nanak Ji stated that it was not his philosophy, it was not his understanding and it was not his thinking, but the Word was coming to him direct from God and he was simply delivering His message to the wGuru Granth Sahib Ji was not written by the devotees after the Gurus had gone, but it was dictated and compiled by the Gurus themselves. Thus it is the Authentic Divine Scripture. No body is allowed to change even a comma or a period out of 1430 angs (pages). The Seventh Nanak's son, Ram Rai, changed the meaning of only one verse to please the Emperor, Aurangzeb, upon which he was excommunicated for ever by his father (the Seventh Nanak), thereby establishing the fact that no one could ever change the God's Word, the Gurbani.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is numerically structured which acts as a central locking system. The numerical system ensures that no-one can add their own hymn or Bani into the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The poetic beauty of Guru Granth Sahib ji ensures that no person can add an extra word to the Guru Granth Sahib, which would disrupt the flowing poetry. The Tenth Nanak made five copies of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji which he dictated and signed. One Volume was taken by Ahmed Shah Abdali and the whereabouts is unknown. However the other four Volumes are preserved at the Takhat Sahibaans (Sri Hazoor Sahib, Sri Patna Sahib, Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib, & Sri Kesgharh Sahib).

Therefore, the Gurus are claiming to receive direct revelation from God, and they need to prove that this is the case. They are indeed claiming prophethood by their very actions! What proof do you have that they WERE divinely inspired?

With the Qu’ran, no one is able to produce a chapter like the Qu’ran, THAT is the proof.

How can Re-Incarnation be Accurate

Tell me, reincarnation is not right, yet being stuck in a grave for eons until judgement day is?

Here is a fundamental question that Islam CANNOT answer.

If a baby is born and screams one scream and then dies, what will happen to its soul? What was the purpose of its existence?

You haven’t done you research. Islam says the Baby died in a state of Fitra, and is guaranteed paradise.

If we believe in one coming and one going, then the birth of this baby makes no sense. It had no life to live and could not do anything and so will it go to Heaven or Hell? And why did God give this person such a short life in which it could do nothing?

How can you ask God what his reasoning and purpose for things are? Are we not Creation and He the Creator? We his servants and He the master?

On the other hand, Sikhism believes that everything is a result of karma. The child's karma, due to its past actions resulted in this one act that it must perform before its demise, once its karma was completed it left the world on its continuing journey towards the Almighty. A human can only break free from the eternal circle of life and death by meditating on Gurmat Naam and immersing the self into Akaal.

Let us take the concept of the Day of Judgement. Islam believes that on this day all will rise from the dead and the dead will be judged. Now, this Day of Judgement is a long way off. What happens when a person dies and is buried and his body decomposes, and in time that soil is used to nurture plant life which in turn gets eaten by another human being.

When this second person dies and is buried who will rise on the Day of Judgement?

Will it be the original person or the second person who has consumed the first? How can it be the first person since he is now part of the second? Since people have been living and dying for thousands of years and will continue to do so then how will the original people rise from their graves when they are now part of a myriad of other life forms? This body is but a mere vessel for our atma or soul, once we die we have no use for it and it is discarded, hence the reason why Sikhs creamate rather then bury thier dead.

You haven’t read about Islam properly. Islam believes the SOUL is raised, not the body. The body is merely a vessel for life on earth, it is our SOUL that is judged, e.g. “Every Soul shall taste deathâ€,etc.

In Islam, Sufis believed in reincarnation.

Forget Sufis. Some are not even muslims, and they are innovators of Islam. I follow the way of Allah(swt), Ahle Es Sunnah Wa Jammat. (“Orthodoxâ€). Please do not bring examples of Heretics when discussing Islam.

How can God be Omnipotent and within Evil?

God is everywhere. He is within each and every one of us, he is in the animals and the plants. He is in the sea and in the very air that we breathe. Like a fish cannot live without water, we cannot live without God. God did not create this world and then step back from it, He is actively involved in everything that we do.

God watches over us when we do good and when we do bad. God is also with us when we perform our bodily functions, why shouldn’t he be? He created us and the way we are so why would he leave us?

Did you read my article? How can God be in Excreta? Are you saying that God is? What does “God is Everywhere†mean? If you mean his Kingdom and Knowledge, yen I agree with you. If you mean he is Physically in things, then I disagree.

How can Sikhs claim to have a complete way of Life?

Tell me does the quran tell how to wipe your back side ? then it is no complete. Sounds silly doesnt it. That is how silly you sound. Guru Granth sahib Ji is not some sort of intruction manual, it is a revelation form the Almighty to the path of righteousness that leads to salvation. God has also given all of us a brain and a mind, please use it.

Silly man. Islam does say how to wipe your backside, in Mutawattir hadiths from the Prophet(Saw), and the quran says that the messenger (saw) is the best example to follow, so Islam covers it. Islam covers EVERYTHING.

A divine scripture should be an instruction manual. It should describe how the creator wants us to live our lives to attain salvation and paradise.

Sikhism is not in the business of making prophecies, we leave this up to the charlatans, the conjurers, the tricksters, the Nosrtodamus type fraudsters. Sikhism is not impressed with prophecies and miracles to win over new converts. The Guru's insisted that the message should speak for itself. Although Sikh history is filled with amazing miracles, they were not done for show purposes or to impress. Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not a book of prophecies, it is a scripture that leads one to the realisation of God and inspires love and tolerance.

But you have no PROOF for it, do you? How do I know it is God, and not the Devil or tricksters inspiring the gurus?

Your question is laughable. Does the quran give the mileage between London and Birmingham? So it is not complete! Ridiculous arguments by ridiculous people

But it tells me and everyone how to run their lives. It asks whether im allowed to travel, how I travel, and what im allowed to do while traveling.

It is incredulous that anything calling itself “the modern religion†still does not emancipate women and give them independence.

LOL, this makes me laugh, coming from a faith who regard women as dirt., where they have to cover up from headto toe, where a man only has to say “I divorce, I divorce, I divorce†and it is done, where a womans testimony is woth nothing, ha ha hah .

Well if Sikhism is so modern, why does it not give the right of Divorce to Women? Read my article “a response to Bijla singhâ€, about how Islam treats women.

So, unless someone receives Gurmat Naam from Guru Nanak, there is no liberation. They will be rewarded for their good deeds and good karma, but their will be no liberation.

Therefore, according to you, only Sikhism is the path to salvation! So theres not many ways at all!!

Christians are content with heaven, and they will receive it. The Muslims also long for heaven but also lust after the 72 virgins but they will not get them, for they are decieved. But this heaven they speak of is only a temporary stage once they have completed their stay they will enter the cycle of births and deaths again, endless and ongoing. Only with Gods grace in their life will they one day come closer to liberation. Gurmat, the Guru's way, respects all religions and will go as far as saying that they are not sent to hell, but they will only get what they work for. All faiths will get what they work towards, but only Gurmat has a concept such as a true path to Satch Khand and God-realisation in such a clear way. Thus, Gurmat is the only path to Sach Khand and the ultimate merger with AkaalPurkh.

But you have no PROOF for what you are saying. I want proof that the SGGS is authentic and from God, otherwise it means nothing!

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(I am arguing that the SGGS cannot be a divinely revealed scripture because there is no proof of it being divine. What is the proof?)

I see you use the phrase “With the Qu’ran, no one is able to produce a chapter like the Qu’ran, THAT is the proof†THAT IS NO PROOF. Just read Sukhmani Sahib or Japji Sahib no one has or will produce anything like it again, THERE IS PROOF.

So therefore there is no proof that they originate with Guru Nanak then, is there, other than Guru Arjans own testimony!

You will not understand this, but the jyote of Guru Nanak Dev Ji resided in Guru Arjun Dev Ji so the testimony of Guru Arjun Dev Ji is TRUE.

(The Qu’ran was memorized by people, from day one, verse by verse. It was compiled during the Prophets(saw) lifetime BY MEMORY. The Written version, which in Arabic is exactly the same as the memorized one, was compiled by Uthman (RA). The Qu’rans wording in Arabic has never, ever been in doubt by any historian, muslim or non-muslim. )

I think you have pointed out your own flaw. Memorising is hardly a science. Repeat a phrase to someone and get him to repeat it to someone else and within just a few days your original phrase will have metamorphosed into something completely different. Now matter how careful you are, change/mutation is inevitable, hence the Quran can never be what it originally was. You say the written version is exactly the same as the me memorized version, how can you say that ? WHERE IS THE PROOF? HOW CAN THERE EVER BE PROOF? If one was memorised and the other written how are you ever going to get proof that they were the same as one was in somes head once he died it went with him. So, by your own chain of thought, the Quran is not the original as you can never prove it.

(Muhammad (saw) did not write anything, but had scribes. )

Sorry mate on one hand you say that we only have Guru Arjun dev Ji’s testimony that the writing were of Guru Nanak dev Ji, YET here you say that Muhammad(sa) did not write any thing but had scribes. You cannot have it both ways. We only have your word that the scribes wrote down what Mohammad(saw) asked them to write, they could have written absolutely anything and Mohammad(saw) would never ever know.

However, he memorized the revelations as they came, as did his companions. The Qurans authenticity has never been in question by those with knowledge.

This is a silly argument “The Qurans authenticity has never been in question by those with knowledge. “ So all of a sudden we are to believe THOSE IN THE KNOW, without any proof or authentication, just because they are ‘in the know’ then it is okay. No it is not. The Quran is full or contradictions, quite possibly due to everyone memorising and then later on trying to write it all down. The whole process is fraught with pitfalls. No serious scholar can ever take this seriously.

(With the Qu’ran, no one is able to produce a chapter like the Qu’ran, THAT is the proof. )

That is no PROOF at all. That is a statement that means nothing. Nobody can produce a chapter like the quran? What?

Just read Japji sahib, or AnandSahib or Sukhmani Sahib , nobody has ever produced such sweet revelation and nobody will, EVER. Is that all the proof you require?

(How can God be in Excreta? Are you saying that God is? What does “God is Everywhere†mean? If you mean his Kingdom and Knowledge, yen I agree with you. If you mean he is Physically in things, then I disagree. )

A small analogy, a fish swims in the sea, other fish tell it that the sea, the water, is everywhere. It is in us, around us, is everywhere, on the seafloor, in the food we eat and the waste we excrete. But the little fish did not understand and would repeat “where is this water, I believe in on waterâ€. It was when it got caught in a fish net and got dragged out on to the sea shore that the full knowledge of being separated from its life giving creator did it realise its folly. In the same way we also bask in our own glory and say where is God, and in he in excreta.

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