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10 Questions on Sikhism From Muslims / Ex-Sikhs


sikhs2islam

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Gurfateh

The divinity of the Quran can be proved through the rational and intellectual mind. In science, you have a hypothesis, for example “I believe that liquid becomes gas when heatedâ€. I test this hypothesis. I find that all liquids when heated, indeed do become gas, albeit at different temperatures, and therefore I can now state as fact that All Liquids, when heated, become Gas. To make this statement false, I need to find a liquid that when heated, does not turn to gas, upon which I will go back to the drawing board, and come up with a new hypothesis.

In the same way, the Quran presents a hypothesis , “This book is from Godâ€. It provides a set of rules to establish whether this is indeed correct (E.g. Produce a Chapter like the Quran ). I am unable to do it, in fact NO-ONE is able to do it, therefore I can say conclusively, until evidence is made available to the rational mind to prove otherwise, that the Qu’ran is a divine source. Therefore, logically everything in the qu’ran is from God, the rules are correct, salvation is through the commandments, etc, etc.

how can you scintifiacll prove that on Last day of jdugement we will have earth becoming of Paper and sea of ink?

say if you are inpotant and say that I can not reproduce and my father could.No one other could reproduce as I could not?

do you feel that Allah,who is independant or SAMAD can not let as many billions of Chapter simlar to Holy Kuran could be made?

Is Allah incapable to make something better then Holy Kuran?

Yuo want to say that Allah is weak?It is not you who say but Iblis or Satan in you who has made you think Allah with limited intellect as your self.If Allah wants all scritpures can be burnt be it of Muslims or of Sikh and no one would rember them but only Name of Allah.

There are no contradictions in the Qu’ran. However, there are disputes over Ijtihad, which is using texts available and applying them to the current reality. For example, can the Verse “Those who do not rule by what Allah Revealed are Disbelieversâ€, be applied to a UK muslim police officer? That is the dispute, there is never a dispute over the Qu’ran in isolation when debating and discussing a principle. It is always a dispute over how it applies in reality, of which God has provided the answer to this as well “If there arise amongst you disputes, refer to Allah and his Messengerâ€.

Is not his wriitan that let there be no compulsiojn in faith while at another place it is writtan that Fight the non bleiver near you?So Fighting is not the compulsion to Momins and to Kafirs also?

Das knowas that what it actualy means but you may not know.

The verses were never altered, the standardization was the pronounciation and dialect of the quran, not the quranic verses themselves. For example, an American will say AH-LOO-MIN-UM, whereas a brit will say ALU-MIN-IUM…same word, different pronounciation.

The way you call others of your sects Kafir,some Shias behold you as Kafir and if you are Wahbi then mnay sunnis also hate you.It is more to do with intepetations then say pronuciations.

If you want you can be given to a link of Holy Kuran and three diifernt interpetation of that are given.Therre are more then 72 by now.And there is doubt about true Kuran by now as some say that gibrail was to go to Hazrat Ali(RAZi) but went to prophetinstead.The doubt is within you.And you only as per Al Wahab say all such and as per Bakri say all that if you are Wahabi.

And how can you say that record in between those times were unaltered?

and what logic you have that Al Wahab did the interpetaion correct if you are a Wahabi?Ala Wahab had his Mrshid as one from Naqshbanid Sufi sect.who are more yogic Hindus with dealing with glands or Chakras.

Do you want ot say that system by Prophet was failure and Ala Wahab or say Bakri put things in right track?

The Shia only began to claim that they had “missing versesâ€, after Yezid, for political gain. If they have these missing verses, then let them present them. They do not, they believe therefore that Allahs word and promise (“I will preserve this book†) has not been honoured, and therefore they believe that the deen is incomplete, making them kuffar.

Please, I am a muslim from Ahle-Sunnah-Wa-Jammat, do not bring shia into this, in the same way I would not bring Collaborator Sikh arguments into an equation when discussing with you.

They claim that your four Eveil Khalifas did bring in wrong interpetation.

who should we follow?

anyway if Allaah say to you that i will give life to your son.And should you think that after 100 years Allah will stcik to it.Will not Allah take life of your son also one day?

Is Allah,all dynamci and indepeandant or Samad is boound by his own words like you are ?do you want to think Allah as one like your self?Is this not a form of Shirk?

what bounds Allah to destroy the book by Allah's own will which Allah once say Allah will protect?Can you say or gutrantee in the name of Allah that Allah will do has you Want Allah to do?If you could then you would have killeed all the non Muslims and all Muslims who do not agree to you.

There were many messengers. Gabriel is an Angel.

Gibrail got the message from Allah and then delivered to Rasool(SWAS).Is Allah bound by this route to send measges and not other routes?

what happend when Hazrat Musa (AS) got commnds on mount Toor?

should das elaborate?If Allah dependedant upon Angels only?

Again, forget the shia, they are a disbelieving sect. How can they accuse Abu bakr and Umar of stealing the Khilafah! Its ridiculous

why should you be forgootan?They way you can calim that that your linage is OK from that time to this in the same methods do they calim.via scriptuires or by tradiotions.

Say you can say that I am Mad but good and others are Mad but Bad.Mad is mad.Or sometome Mad person say that he is only n ot Mad and all world is Bad.

It happens that wrong person can say that all world is like him/her so all world is wrong.

This was discussed in an earlier thread. If the prophet is masoom, how can God allow him to be swayed by the devil? If he is the best example to follow, and is free from error after achieving prophethood, how can he be possessed? Its non-sensical.

If prophet was so much protected by Allah as das asked you before,why did Allah let him do Hizrat(emigartion from Mecca to avoid prosecution)?why did one war did he lost to Kureshis(War was fought near some mount)?

If god can let him wait for 40 years to get revaelations?If God let him have versse via Gibrail,then what is problme that God once sent another angel Iblis for delviering the verses.What matters is what happened at last.

yuo say Rasol(SWAS) was Masoon or illitrate based upon your own biased text or biased traditons.Bani Israel and Masihi say that Al Warogh or das may not spel the name correctly actualy thought Rasol(SWAS) faith of semtics and he made a soory to rith as sort of mixture of Pagan Arabs thing with that.

Allah's idol was there in Mecca which Rasoll broke and there were three doughters of that also.

Das just wants to ask you as you ask about prof of our faith.

Were you there in that cave where Message was recived?

why should not Al Warogh or some one esle thoiught Rasool Arebic language and script in there and there Messages was not from Allah and were from were all farbicated.It does not take more then say six month to teach an illitrate,the litracy.

Say Rasool may took more time to learn to learn that language and then what proof do you have that Kuran was not fabircated by a man?

This Masoom thing does not go well as mnay litrate mna can poose as an illitrate and can not an illitrate mna learn litracy in secret.Did nnotbefore messages come Rasol use to go in secluisons?

Theses types of questions Yuor Ahle Kitab(Jews and Christians) pose.Das may have answer but you will not.

This verse, and the one before it, indicate the bounties that can come from the smallest things into things of sustenance and rizq. You have taken the Verse and answered the question yourself. It was revealed before prohibition of alcohol. Allah(Swt) provides tests for us all. Pigs are not evil, but we are not allowed to eat them. Do I say this is a contradiction? Of course not.

so for you wine is bounty and yes as we get that in Jannat(so called Hevan),So you belive that there was alterations of rule within the life of Rasol(SWAS) by Allah.what bounds Allah that Allah can not alter rules after Rasool(SWAS) has went back to Hevan?

Had Allah been in control of Rasool (SWAS) or ummat,Rasool could not have spend only the life of normal humans but could have surived till day and visisble to whole world.Allah is veryly bounds all in rule.

Yuo say Allah tests you,why does Allah test you?Allah is your master and not examiner.Allah wants you to follow what Allah want then say let you have own say.

Yuo say that As per Holy Kuran pigs are not allowed to be eaten.Yuo are wrong.as per holy Kuran 'helpless can have pork,blood,dead and Animal while killing of that even name of Allah is not said.Have you read this Ayat.

and do you think that you are not helpless or Mohtaj infront of Allah.Rather you think that Allah is mohtaj or helpless the promise made by Allah towards you.Allah may later librate you from promise.do you have control on the deeds of Allah?

Yes revelation abrogates and is changed, but only by those in authority, i.e. Prophets who are acting with permission of Allah(swt) to communicate to the people. For example, initially muslims were told to pray towards Jerusalem, but then the verse came to change direction of the Qibla. Also, previous generations were allowed to drink. It was not prohibited by Moses, Noah,or before. The reason for the Change? Allah knows best.

it is wrritan in Holy Kuran that people go after relative meanings of verse and do not rember the Absolute things.Yuorself are the best example.

As you have yourself agreed that changes did happend from past books to Holy Kuran.

why can not Allah repeat the change in past as Allah did change in Past the rule?

Is Allah dependant upon Prophet?why can not Allah direcly interact with Belivers?Only Satan misguides the mind about Quwat Ul Allah(pweor of the God) that God is fixed or The God is in fix.

People who think about the God like this are in a fix.God is ominpotant and is capable to do what ever God wants to do.If The God is not omnipotant then that is not the The God but some god.

We are back full circle though, How do I KNOW the SGGS is from God? How can I be sure? What is the Hypothesis? How can I test it?

I look forward to hearing from you.

The way you know that Holy Kuran is OK and from the God.And why does it happens in that by mercy of Allah.So it is not in hand of any sikh but Allah,if Allah wants you to know thate Truth of Allah's manifestation as Gurmat.

If Allah wants then you will becmoe faithless to your Holy Kuran,Rasool and Allah also.As mnay people become within the life time of Rasool(SWAS).

so to know who are we.When you go to your Salat.when you read the verses,and when you put your forehead dowen on ground.do not think of any creatiojn but with full concentration think of Allah only.As you have asked to give you education for beocimng a Sikh(student/Talib) and Allah will be your Guru/Teacher.

So in present and in future,think of only Allah during sizda(bowing tlet forehead touch the ground).If Allah wants Allah will be in fornt of you and you will find your self in time when Holy Kuran as decended or you may find your slef in furue where servent of God sits on one side of The God and acts as The God wants that serrvent to act.

Allah is our Master and let Allah knnow you that we work as Allah wants us to work.This may not be Kufra att all to think that Allah who contains all and that Allah only.

Just give it a try and give back experiance to Das.Allah Hafiz.

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ahh an intresting discource :D

In the same way, the Quran presents a hypothesis , “This book is from Godâ€. It provides a set of rules to establish whether this is indeed correct (E.g. Produce a Chapter like the Quran ). I am unable to do it, in fact NO-ONE is able to do it

I too can present a catch 22 hypothesis, "I am your father" now I will give you a set of rules to establish wether this is correct, as your father I must have the same sort of physical resemblance to you.. now I have blood you have blood i have teeth you have teeth... I chat crap on forums you chat on forums :P

I do not want to hear about DNA analysis or anything outside of my set rules.. using those rational pointers I have hilighted prove I am not your father, only using the points I mentioned.. !!

To refute the Qurans claim it states it self it is just the most recent edition of books that came before it, so I guess the bible has verses and the torah has verses similar to that of the Quran. And if it is on about specifically verses in arabic and with specific grammatical pronounciation well then you already believe that these were varying through early islam, and only standardised later by the Kalif, so that doesnt really prove it to be non reproduced.. also if its not about the language but about the meaning then are translations of the quran not answering that translation ( i am aware that many muslims feel that quranic arabic is divine script) but as we just discussed the arabic varied from person to person.

There are no contradictions in the Qu’ran. However, there are disputes over Ijtihad, which is using texts available and applying them to the current reality

Well later you go on to state that the Quran is

Yes revelation abrogates and is changed, but only by those in authority

now in the case of the verses we are discussing the abrogation is also a contradiction, the view points are complete opposites!.. one says its Gods bounty and its ok, the other says its Satans poison and is strictly forbidden.

Your claim that a prophet can change earlier revelations becuase he is divinely guided by Allah, and that Allah knows best, then isnt there a possibility that Allah in his all knowing wiseness could completly abrogate the whole Quran, even prophethood, even the whole of Islam, and by his desires and wish create a completely new belief which totally overides this set design of prophet, text, rules, laws, etc etc?

Now we can prove that a prophet is a prophet because of the rules etc within the Quran, however if Allah decides to negate those rules and change the way in which he reveals to the world, change the way in which he calculates who is a believer.. then there is nothing outside of the Quran which you could use to rationalise the prophethood or superiority of Islam.

And if you say that Allah would change things as he pleases, then there is no way in which you could attempt to deny that Allah could infact completely change revelation and no longer use a prophet.

Maybe he found that the Prophet technique was no longer working, much like how new theories over ride old, and the old become shelved in museums. So Allah in his so great wiseness knowing already that even the great Islam and message of the Quran would be lost and the ummah would disintegrate into cults and sects labelling one another as kaffirs.. showing no unity and showing no desire to praise God, but insted praising their own greatness as the only true religion ! being misdirected by their own ego unable to identify that it is with allahs grace and wisdom that everything exists the way it does, and that time should be spent improving youself insted of attempting to convert or preach face value truths which once you look into the actuall realigion you see it is no different then any other with its share of beauty and uglyness.. :P, maybe that is what made Allah decide that he would make Prophet Mohammed the last of the Prophets, and from that moment onwards provide revelation to those individuals who pray and show love for him.. whoever they are and whatever they follow, the great saints like Fakir, Kabir, Baba Nanak, Bhagat Dhanna, and many many more who I unfortunatly cant remember or dont know of right now.

After all as you so wonderfully put it

The reason for the Change? Allah knows best.

It is with the same faith that you are sure the Quran is true. the same faith that you have in your so powerfull mind that it can be trusted to be rational enough to define what is true and that which is not. That a sikh can believe his Guru is as much from God as he is himself.

My personal opinion and I mean no offense by this statement so please dont take offense, is that you are not a muslim of Allah taking the will of Allah to be the greatest dictator of yoru faith and beliefs.. but am more of a muslim to your mind and rational thought.. which changes over time, and is influenced by everything around it, and most importantly is fallable letting the idea of your own rationalisation of truth dictate to you a supreme truth and occassionally throwing in the name of Allah to justify it as being associated.

But thats my opinion.. God bless.

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Gurfateh

Das is soory that he came between Dynamic Banda Ji and s2i Ji.

anyway yesterday das saw something very bad and will post here.Dear s2i Ji deem das as fellow Muslim and Dava on him will not work and Converted can not be again converted.

So das is only interested that your self go to the link below.

Here lots of sin is being daone and Allah will teach them a lesson.But do tell das that Text like Bukhair they are quoting.Are they authanitic or false and say should such Text bee as per with Holy Kuran say Rasol(SWAS) getting influnce by Black magician(so why can not Satan influnce him) or not to go to mosque wen onion or garlics are eaten.

Das is again sorry that many Kufr things are also at that site but let us stick to the main issue.

http://p081.ezboard.com/fhinduunityhinduis...t=1&stop=20

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Hi There,

Firstly, sorry for the delay in getting back, it is hard to make time to respond, run a website and hold a full-time job, but I am still giving it my best shot!

Ok, here we go :-

how can you scintifiacll prove that on Last day of jdugement we will have earth becoming of Paper and sea of ink?

The proof is textual, i.e. through belief that the Quran is from God, Rationally, I then accept everything within it.

say if you are inpotant and say that I can not reproduce and my father could.No one other could reproduce as I could not?

Im sorry, I don’t understand the point, please explain

do you feel that Allah,who is independant or SAMAD can not let as many billions of Chapter simlar to Holy Kuran could be made?

Allah(SWT) is independent, and of course he can. But what is the point, when 114 chapters contain all the guidance we need.

Is Allah incapable to make something better then Holy Kuran?

Of course not! Allah(swt) is unbound by any constrictions.

Yuo want to say that Allah is weak?It is not you who say but Iblis or Satan in you who has made you think Allah with limited intellect as your self.If Allah wants all scritpures can be burnt be it of Muslims or of Sikh and no one would rember them but only Name of Allah.

Where did I say Allah is limited or weak?

Is not his wriitan that let there be no compulsiojn in faith while at another place it is writtan that Fight the non bleiver near you?So Fighting is not the compulsion to Momins and to Kafirs also?

This ayah that you quote, I believe in Surah AnFal, where it says “Fight them (i.e. the mushriks or non-believers ) until there is no more fitnah, and the rule is for none but Godâ€, is referring to fighting STATES, until the LAW AND ORDER is for Islam. It is not talking about individual people. Individuals do not have to become muslim, but the law and order has to be muslim. This is the same, as for example, when in India, people could be Hindu, Sikh,Muslim but they had to follow british law. Every country all over the world is the same, yet some are more tolerant of other beliefs than others. What approach is RIGHT is subject to debate in a future thread maybe?

The way you call others of your sects Kafir,some Shias behold you as Kafir and if you are Wahbi then mnay sunnis also hate you.It is more to do with intepetations then say pronuciations.

I can’t deny you that, all I am saying is what I believe, and what the people who wrote the article and help run the website believe. We all go to our own graves, I believe the evidence held indicates without question that Ahle-Sunnah-Wal-Jammat is the correct interpretation of Islam, and again this can be debated, and has been debated, on muslim forums.

If you want you can be given to a link of Holy Kuran and three diifernt interpetation of that are given.Therre are more then 72 by now.And there is doubt about true Kuran by now as some say that gibrail was to go to Hazrat Ali(RAZi) but went to prophetinstead.The doubt is within you.And you only as per Al Wahab say all such and as per Bakri say all that if you are Wahabi.

Are you referring to Arabic, or English translations? There is only ONE Arabic quran, and that is without question, and that is what I am talking about when I mention “the qu’ran†or “in the quranâ€

And how can you say that record in between those times were unaltered?

Don’t believe me. Go and research it, present your findings and we will debate it.

and what logic you have that Al Wahab did the interpetaion correct if you are a Wahabi?Ala Wahab had his Mrshid as one from Naqshbanid Sufi sect.who are more yogic Hindus with dealing with glands or Chakras.

Who said I follow Abdul-Wahab? I accept he is a scholar, as is Sayiid Qutb, Ibn Taymiyaah, Ibn Qayim, Imam Ahmad Bin Hanbal, Bukhari, Shafi, Malik, etc.The main thing is muslims follow Allah(swt) as he wants to be followed.

Do you want ot say that system by Prophet was failure and Ala Wahab or say Bakri put things in right track?

Of course not. People are corrupt, and they need leaders to change, motivate and inspire them. This is what scholars are, “the inheritors of the Prophetsâ€.

It might interest you as well in a saying of the Prophet(saw), in which it was asked who are the best of people, and the Prophet (Saw) said “The Scholars and the Rulersâ€. He was then asked who the worst were, and he said “The Scholars and the Rulersâ€.

They claim that your four Eveil Khalifas did bring in wrong interpetation.

who should we follow?

Shia would never say the fourth Caliph, Imam Ali, was an Evil Caliph! Anyway, ignoring your faux pas, we can say to the Shia and to you, you follow Allah(Swt) and His Prophet, and what he taught, and the truth will be apparent.

anyway if Allaah say to you that i will give life to your son.And should you think that after 100 years Allah will stcik to it.Will not Allah take life of your son also one day? Is Allah,all dynamci and indepeandant or Samad is boound by his own words like you are ?do you want to think Allah as one like your self?Is this not a form of Shirk? what bounds Allah to destroy the book by Allah's own will which Allah once say Allah will protect?Can you say or gutrantee in the name of Allah that Allah will do has you Want Allah to do?If you could then you would have killeed all the non Muslims and all Muslims who do not agree to you.

Allah is not bound by anything, but I have faith in his mercy and his justice, and that inshallah he would never wrong a soul.

Gibrail got the message from Allah and then delivered to Rasool(SWAS).Is Allah bound by this route to send measges and not other routes?

Allah(Swt0 is not bound to give the message through Gibril, but that is how he chose to deliver the message. Gibril (AS) is chosen to deliver the message to all messengers. Perhaps you should read of the incident where Musa(AS) shouted out, asking Allah(Swt) to show himself, and Allah(SWT) destroyed a mountain in front of him. Of course, these are just textual beliefs, based on the rational belief of the quran.

If prophet was so much protected by Allah as das asked you before,why did Allah let him do Hizrat(emigartion from Mecca to avoid prosecution)?why did one war did he lost to Kureshis(War was fought near some mount)?

Firstly, who said the Prophet(SAW) fled mecca to escape persecution? He went there on the invite of the tribe of the Ansar to establish the Islamic State there. Secondly, the War was the battle of Uhud, and this was lost due to the Army not listening to the Prophets(saw) exact instructions.

If god can let him wait for 40 years to get revaelations?If God let him have versse via Gibrail,then what is problme that God once sent another angel Iblis for delviering the verses.What matters is what happened at last.

Because :-

A. Iblis is a Jinn, not an Angel

B. If Iblis is an enemy of God, why would God then let him give messages?

yuo say Rasol(SWAS) was Masoon or illitrate based upon your own biased text or biased traditons.Bani Israel and Masihi say that Al Warogh or das may not spel the name correctly actualy thought Rasol(SWAS) faith of semtics and he made a soory to rith as sort of mixture of Pagan Arabs thing with that.

Give me a quote, from a muslim or non-muslim at that time, who says he was not illiterate! And even if he was literate, are you saying that he was the most eloquent person in the world, a one of a kind, who could invent such beautiful, never to be repeated scriptures, in the space of sometimes 5 minutes before a question and a verse in response?

Say Rasool may took more time to learn to learn that language and then what proof do you have that Kuran was not fabircated by a man? This Masoom thing does not go well as mnay litrate mna can poose as an illitrate and can not an illitrate mna learn litracy in secret.Did nnotbefore messages come Rasol use to go in secluisons?

See above. Why can no-one replicate it? Why has no-one produced a chapter like the Quran?

so for you wine is bounty and yes as we get that in Jannat(so called Hevan),So you belive that there was alterations of rule within the life of Rasol(SWAS) by Allah.what bounds Allah that Allah can not alter rules after Rasool(SWAS) has went back to Hevan?

Because he is just, and he says “And I have completed your deen, and chosen Islam as your religionâ€. It was the last verse revealed before the prophets(Saw) death.

Yuo say Allah tests you,why does Allah test you?Allah is your master and not examiner.Allah wants you to follow what Allah want then say let you have own say.

How can you ask “why†to the creator? He understands, we do not. We hear, and we obey.

Yuo say that As per Holy Kuran pigs are not allowed to be eaten.Yuo are wrong.as per holy Kuran 'helpless can have pork,blood,dead and Animal while killing of that even name of Allah is not said.Have you read this Ayat.

You are being pedantic. That is an exceptional circumstance. In a life and death issue, anything goes. I can even utter kufr to save my life. This is the mercy of Islam.

it is wrritan in Holy Kuran that people go after relative meanings of verse and do not rember the Absolute things.Yuorself are the best example.

Where is this written, and how have you applied it to me?

Is Allah dependant upon Prophet?why can not Allah direcly interact with Belivers?Only Satan misguides the mind about Quwat Ul Allah(pweor of the God) that God is fixed or The God is in fix.

People who think about the God like this are in a fix.God is ominpotant and is capable to do what ever God wants to do.If The God is not omnipotant then that is not the The God but some god.

Please see previous discussions about the need for Angels.

so to know who are we.When you go to your Salat.when you read the verses,and when you put your forehead dowen on ground.do not think of any creatiojn but with full concentration think of Allah only.As you have asked to give you education for beocimng a Sikh(student/Talib) and Allah will be your Guru/Teacher.

So in present and in future,think of only Allah during sizda(bowing tlet forehead touch the ground).If Allah wants Allah will be in fornt of you and you will find your self in time when Holy Kuran as decended or you may find your slef in furue where servent of God sits on one side of The God and acts as The God wants that serrvent to act.

Allah is our Master and let Allah knnow you that we work as Allah wants us to work.This may not be Kufra att all to think that Allah who contains all and that Allah only.

Just give it a try and give back experiance to Das.Allah Hafiz.

To bow, asking Allah(Swt) to show himself, when I have belief that Allah is certain, the Quran is from him , and the messengers have been sent with the message of truth, I will do no such thing.

Good talking to you, looking forward to your response.

Regards,

Umar

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Gurfateh

In the name of The Mercyfull and the Kind.

so your name is Umar,one who due to anger went with sabre to kill beloved on Allah and after listeining to Kuran brought faith.Nice.

Hi There,

Firstly, sorry for the delay in getting back, it is hard to make time to respond, run a website and hold a full-time job, but I am still giving it my best shot!

Ok, here we go :-

This is very good.And Allah bless you.But are you sure that you do it with your own power.Das thinks Allah makes you to do so.

The proof is textual, i.e. through belief that the Quran is from God, Rationally, I then accept everything within it.

There are various explanitons of this text as das told you before.But if we go by defination about matterial changing and find rational or something which could explain that,text goes wrong against the scinese,which has reached so in deiscovry and invention.

and as das told you ,did you do study about Wargh Bin Nufai or Al Warogh,who was from intial 3 converts,(others ben perhaps Hazrat Khdiza Razi and Hazrat Zaid(Razi)).

He was one to discover the prophet hood of Rasol(SWAS).Can not he teach any other Arebic?

Im sorry, I don’t understand the point, please explain

If das in incapable to reach some state due to inter weakness as his Murshid or spirutal guide has reached,then it may not be neccasary that all others can not reachthat state.

Tell this truithfully,Hvae you got the meaning of Harf E Muqat?

Allah(SWT) is independent, and of course he can. But what is the point, when 114 chapters contain all the guidance we need

Dear can you take Allah foregranted that Allah may not want you to have more knowledge.Say if Allah say that something more then 114 Vhapters could to told you to let you understand 114 Chapetrs clearlyly?

It is Allah who dicides that what is sufficient for you and what is sufficient toady may not be same for tommorw.

Say there could be new creations by Allah after 114 Chapters in Universe and in mans intellect.Or can this not be possible that Allah sent 114 suffincet for the Humans at that point of time and more could be needed by now?

Of course not! Allah(swt) is unbound by any constrictions.

Agreed and this is your first step towards Sikhism.

Where did I say Allah is limited or weak?
yuo said that Allah is bounded by Promises made by Allah towards you rather you poeple.It is rather Allah guided you rather you people oh Faithfull to go after Shara.It is in control of Allah to rewards who so ever Allah desires.If you want Das can give it from Holy Kuran.

002.284

YUSUFALI: To Allah belongeth all that is in the heavens and on earth. Whether ye show what is in your minds or conceal it, Allah Calleth you to account for it. He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and punisheth whom He pleaseth, for Allah hath power over all things.

PICKTHAL: Unto Allah (belongeth) whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth; and whether ye make known what is in your minds or hide it, Allah will bring you to account for it. He will forgive whom He will and He will punish whom He will. Allah is Able to do all things.

SHAKIR: Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is Allah's; and whether you manifest what is in your minds or hide it, Allah will call you to account according to it; then He will forgive whom He pleases and chastise whom He pleases, and Allah has power over all things.

Allah is the unlitmate judge.

This ayah that you quote, I believe in Surah AnFal, where it says “Fight them (i.e. the mushriks or non-believers ) until there is no more fitnah, and the rule is for none but Godâ€, is referring to fighting STATES, until the LAW AND ORDER is for Islam. It is not talking about individual people. Individuals do not have to become muslim, but the law and order has to be muslim. This is the same, as for example, when in India, people could be Hindu, Sikh,Muslim but they had to follow british law. Every country all over the world is the same, yet some are more tolerant of other beliefs than others. What approach is RIGHT is subject to debate in a future thread maybe?

NO it is Al Tauba.But das will contest your thing over Anfal also.

First Das will give what he intended.

009.123

YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).

SHAKIR: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

amd one which is appreantly conttrdictonar as follows.

As a sikh das has faiht that there is no contradiction between tow and by Explantion das can explain,but that could not be as you defination.

002.256

YUSUFALI: Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

PICKTHAL: There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.

SHAKIR: There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

and then what your self have asked for.

008.039

YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.

PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.

SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

but even if we go by your logic that let Monins take over the rule from non Momins.But say in case of Jews or Say Vedics,they may say that there God is not Allah and they as per thier religous requirement want rule as per thier Faith.So Darul Islam deprives them thier religoeus right to rule and this is case of force based upon religeon.And das gave instances of Faith before Holy Kuran and Allah knew that they existed.

so your Explantion may not be logical dear brother.

(continued..)

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Gurfateh

I can’t deny you that, all I am saying is what I believe, and what the people who wrote the article and help run the website believe. We all go to our own graves, I believe the evidence held indicates without question that Ahle-Sunnah-Wal-Jammat is the correct interpretation of Islam, and again this can be debated, and has been debated, on muslim forums.

so when you get to rule tyhe world,you will tagg shias as non bleivers and futher they may not be allowed to enter Mecca for Hajj.And you expect that Muslims will hep yuo and there will be a unity.

030.032

YUSUFALI: Those who split up their Religion, and become (mere) Sects,- each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!

PICKTHAL: Of those who split up their religion and became schismatics, each sect exulting in its tenets.

SHAKIR: Of those who divided their religion and became seas every sect rejoicing in what they had with them

and these are nor the only qoutes.Islam does not approves sect or fight among faithfulls with differnt preceptions.

Are you referring to Arabic, or English translations? There is only ONE Arabic quran, and that is without question, and that is what I am talking about when I mention “the qu’ran†or “in the quranâ€

as you have seen das talked about interpetaions and you can seee three in English but as per some This text you refer is only 1/3rd of All Holy Kuran.And they are Muslims anyway.

Don’t believe me. Go and research it, present your findings and we will debate it.

Debate is there within Muslims themselves.so better debate among your self.Das can take your side or your opposition side but is it OK as per Kuran to let someone intervene between Two brothers and act like Satan to let them fight.

Who said I follow Abdul-Wahab? I accept he is a scholar, as is Sayiid Qutb, Ibn Taymiyaah, Ibn Qayim, Imam Ahmad Bin Hanbal, Bukhari, Shafi, Malik, etc.The main thing is muslims follow Allah(swt) as he wants to be followed.

But what about guradians of shirine in Saudi Arebia,Are they not more pro Wahabi and if you do not folow thier ways then you should change ther direction of your paryer as Rasol(SWAS) did from Yersusalam to Mecca.They allow so called non Muslim Shias in Mecca.They Allow Iran in OIC and may try to unite All Muslims while some could be sham Muslims.

anyway as Sikh we follow Allah as Allah wants us to follow Allah as nothing happen without will of Allah and das can give some qoooutes.

074.056

YUSUFALI: But none will keep it in remembrance except as Allah wills: He is the Lord of Righteousness, and the Lord of Forgiveness.

PICKTHAL: And they will not heed unless Allah willeth (it). He is the fount of fear. He is the fount of Mercy.

SHAKIR: And they will not mind unless Allah please. He is worthy to be feared and worthy to forgive.

and one the princeple Sikhism is there.

010.099

YUSUFALI: If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!

PICKTHAL: And if thy Lord willed, all who are in the earth would have believed together. Wouldst thou (Muhammad) compel men until they are believers?

SHAKIR: And if your Lord had pleased, surely all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them; will you then force men till they become believers?

and over here Sunnis bleive in this more then Shias.

Of course not. People are corrupt, and they need leaders to change, motivate and inspire them. This is what scholars are, “the inheritors of the Prophetsâ€.

It might interest you as well in a saying of the Prophet(saw), in which it was asked who are the best of people, and the Prophet (Saw) said “The Scholars and the Rulersâ€. He was then asked who the worst were, and he said “The Scholars and the Rulersâ€.

so Prophet himself Answered the question above where you have said

Don’t believe me. Go and research it, present your findings and we will debate it.

Prophet new about future and perhaps yuor interpetaion can fall in that way.

Shia would never say the fourth Caliph, Imam Ali, was an Evil Caliph! Anyway, ignoring your faux pas, we can say to the Shia and to you, you follow Allah(Swt) and His Prophet, and what he taught, and the truth will be apparent.

Well as Dynamioc band Said that das's English is not OK but yet had you read the text correctly,There is a diffreance between Four Khalifa and Fourth one.so not the faux pass.

Allah is not bound by anything, but I have faith in his mercy and his justice, and that inshallah he would never wrong a soul.

yuo have bounded your self to what Allah told some Great Srevent of Allah(Rasol is said with same attribute in Holy Kuran) about some juticse defined by some laws and Faith as per some recording.Yuo ahve faith in Jutice and faith defined by Allah but you also think that Allah is bound by them.Dear brother nothing is in you akhtyar or control and does das gives another verse from your book.

081.028

YUSUFALI: (With profit) to whoever among you wills to go straight:

PICKTHAL: Unto whomsoever of you willeth to walk straight.

SHAKIR: For him among you who pleases to go straight.

081.029

YUSUFALI: But ye shall not will except as Allah wills,- the Cherisher of the Worlds.

PICKTHAL: And ye will not, unless (it be) that Allah willeth, the Lord of Creation.

SHAKIR: And you do not please except that Allah please, the Lord of the worlds.

Allah(Swt0 is not bound to give the message through Gibril, but that is how he chose to deliver the message. Gibril (AS) is chosen to deliver the message to all messengers. Perhaps you should read of the incident where Musa(AS) shouted out, asking Allah(Swt) to show himself, and Allah(SWT) destroyed a mountain in front of him. Of course, these are just textual beliefs, based on the rational belief of the quran.

As you said before that Allah is not bounded then why should not Allah use other methods.any Problem can Allah have in such?There are some refreance made to 'faces' of Allah,and what Sufis say about that.Love to Allah above Hevana and Hell.

yuo want to say that King used one of his servent for 12 times aand so King is bound to use the same for 13th time.Good rationale.

Firstly, who said the Prophet(SAW) fled mecca to escape persecution? He went there on the invite of the tribe of the Ansar to establish the Islamic State there. Secondly, the War was the battle of Uhud, and this was lost due to the Army not listening to the Prophets(saw) exact instructions.

http://quranhindi.com/

These are the Tablighis or Preachers of Sunni faith .

and das read about the same from intruductioon part.

From 40 to 53 years of age Rasol(SWAS) carried out preaching and many conversions follow,Rasol moved away from Mecca before also

and to preach but it was not called hizrat.

Preaching is not hizrat dear frined.

So coming back to stroy,mnay people become his foes.so they gathred to kill him,They new that Rasoll will move to Tabligh further,in night when they slept Rasol(Swas) made move.And did not he stayed with his follower(s) in cave for three days to protect self from foes.

Then coming to battle in which some of the reltive of Rasol9swas) attain Mayterdom/Shaheedi.so mnay obyed Rasol also.do you want to say that Rasol was weak that he was not successsfull to control the own Ummat?

Das nayway has the reply to this issue and if you want das will explaine that why does this happen.

008.072

YUSUFALI: Those who believed, and adopted exile, and fought for the Faith, with their property and their persons, in the cause of Allah, as well as those who gave (them) asylum and aid,- these are (all) friends and protectors, one of another. As to those who believed but came not into exile, ye owe no duty of protection to them until they come into exile; but if they seek your aid in religion, it is your duty to help them, except against a people with whom ye have a treaty of mutual alliance. And (remember) Allah seeth all that ye do.

PICKTHAL: Lo! those who believed and left their homes and strove with their wealth and their lives for the cause of Allah, and those who took them in and helped them: these are protecting friends one of another. And those who believed but did not leave their homes, ye have no duty to protect them till they leave their homes; but if they seek help from you in the matter of religion then it is your duty to help (them) except against a folk between whom and you there is a treaty. Allah is Seer of what ye do.

SHAKIR: Surely those who believed and fled (their homes) and struggled hard in Allah's way with their property and their souls, and those who gave shelter and helped-- these are guardians of each other; and (as for) those who believed and did not fly, not yours is their guardianship until they fly; and if they seek aid from you in the matter of religion, aid is incumbent on you except against a people between whom and you there is a treaty, and Allah sees what you do.

Belive das that if yuo tell lie then your tongues and eyes and ears will tell about you to Allah.

Because :-

A. Iblis is a Jinn, not an Angel

015.028

YUSUFALI: Behold! thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man, from sounding clay from mud moulded into shape;

PICKTHAL: And (remember) when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am creating a mortal out of potter's clay of black mud altered,

SHAKIR: And when your Lord said to the angels: Surely I am going to create a mortal of the essence of black mud fashioned in shape.

015.029

YUSUFALI: "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."

PICKTHAL: So, when I have made him and have breathed into him of My Spirit, do ye fall down, prostrating yourselves unto him.

SHAKIR: So when I have made him complete and breathed into him of My spirit, fall down making obeisance to him.

015.030

YUSUFALI: So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together:

PICKTHAL: So the angels fell prostrate, all of them together

SHAKIR: So the angels made obeisance, all of them together,

015.031

YUSUFALI: Not so Iblis: he refused to be among those who prostrated themselves.

PICKTHAL: Save Iblis. He refused to be among the prostrate.

SHAKIR: But Iblis (did it not); he refused to be with those who made obeisance.

015.032

YUSUFALI: (Allah) said: "O Iblis! what is your reason for not being among those who prostrated themselves?"

PICKTHAL: He said: O Iblis! What aileth thee that thou art not among the prostrate?

SHAKIR: He said: O Iblis! what excuse have you that you are not with those who make obeisance?

This is not the only place where we see that Allah says to Angels to bow to ADAM(AS) and only Iblis does not.Had Iblis not an Angel then why should have Allah told him that he disobyed Allah as Allah ordered Angels only and Iblis was not Jin.

B. If Iblis is an enemy of God, why would God then let him give messages?

015.036

YUSUFALI: (Iblis) said: "O my Lord! give me then respite till the Day the (dead) are raised."

PICKTHAL: He said: My Lord! Reprieve me till the day when they are raised.

SHAKIR: He said: My Lord! then respite me till the time when they are raised.

015.037

YUSUFALI: (Allah) said: "Respite is granted thee

PICKTHAL: He said: Then lo! thou art of those reprieved

SHAKIR: He said: So surely you are of the respited ones

015.038

YUSUFALI: "Till the Day of the Time appointed."

PICKTHAL: Till the Day of appointed time.

SHAKIR: Till the period of the time made known.

015.039

YUSUFALI: (Iblis) said: "O my Lord! because Thou hast put me in the wrong, I will make (wrong) fair-seeming to them on the earth, and I will put them all in the wrong,-

PICKTHAL: He said: My Lord! Because Thou hast sent me astray, I verily shall adorn the path of error for them in the earth, and shall mislead them every one,

SHAKIR: He said: My Lord! because Thou hast made life evil to me, I will certainly make (evil) fair-seeming to them on earth, and I will certainly cause them all to deviate

Allah can never have an Enmy and no one can affrod to be an enmy of Allah.

Give me a quote, from a muslim or non-muslim at that time, who says he was not illiterate! And even if he was literate, are you saying that he was the most eloquent person in the world, a one of a kind, who could invent such beautiful, never to be repeated scriptures, in the space of sometimes 5 minutes before a question and a verse in response?
As you talk aboust scholar getting Wrong as Allah so das would like you to answer.

Can not a illitrate persaon act as litrate?No he will be cought.But what about Litrate acting as illitrate.It is possible.

And when person is in contact with scholars like Warugh Bin nufai and goes to caves and visits places in trade and it is not impoosible to learn.

Das may to agree to the point as made by your own peolple of Books and das can answer the same to them but how will you explain here needs to be understood.

Then cmoing to no chapter like this has ben produced.Das did talk about frog of well who has never seen sea so say that all water is in his well.

for person in start of 20th centraut Airship were the best and speedest way of air Transport but now we may have supersoic gets or concoorde.

so such logic and so called Rationale of your dies not work again.It is your biased opinion.It was at that time but not as eternity.

See above. Why can no-one replicate it? Why has no-one produced a chapter like the Quran?

yuo can say that no one can make a vehicle in desert better then Camel and you may use them in war with west,when they have Tanks capable to move in desert.

Because he is just, and he says “And I have completed your deen, and chosen Islam as your religionâ€. It was the last verse revealed before the prophets(Saw) death.

In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.

114.001

YUSUFALI: Say: I seek refuge with the Lord and Cherisher of Mankind,

PICKTHAL: Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of mankind,

SHAKIR: Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of men,

114.002

YUSUFALI: The King (or Ruler) of Mankind,

PICKTHAL: The King of mankind,

SHAKIR: The King of men,

114.003

YUSUFALI: The god (or judge) of Mankind,-

PICKTHAL: The god of mankind,

SHAKIR: The god of men,

114.004

YUSUFALI: From the mischief of the Whisperer (of Evil), who withdraws (after his whisper),-

PICKTHAL: From the evil of the sneaking whisperer,

SHAKIR: From the evil of the whisperings of the slinking (Shaitan),

114.005

YUSUFALI: (The same) who whispers into the hearts of Mankind,-

PICKTHAL: Who whispereth in the hearts of mankind,

SHAKIR: Who whispers into the hearts of men,

114.006

YUSUFALI: Among Jinns and among men.

PICKTHAL: Of the jinn and of mankind.

SHAKIR: From among the jinn and the men.

Had Allah told at that time that I am not going to send further guidnace to you.Do you have full faith that Allah is bounded by own words?

Yuo talk about jutice which needs to govenrned by a law and Allah made Law,Is Allah incapapble to change that Law or does that Law curbs the independance of Allah.

How can you ask “why†to the creator? He understands, we do not. We hear, and we obey.

As yuo agree that you do not understand and obey so dear may be Allah is only taking apparnt test of you.Allah will only make you past and fail and Allah will only let you obey and hear.Real doer is Allah and not you and me.

You are being pedantic. That is an exceptional circumstance. In a life and death issue, anything goes. I can even utter kufr to save my life. This is the mercy of Islam.

today das will only give you a one verse. anbd other tow will given again if you want further clarification but are you anyway not helples in front of Allah,Do you live by your fre will or do you die of your free will.ritaulas are only for those who say that they have some power over doing something in front of Allah.

005.093

YUSUFALI: On those who believe and do deeds of righteousness there is no blame for what they ate (in the past), when they guard themselves from evil, and believe, and do deeds of righteousness,- (or) again, guard themselves from evil and believe,- (or) again, guard themselves from evil and do good. For Allah loveth those who do good.

PICKTHAL: There shall be no sin (imputed) unto those who believe and do good works for what they may have eaten (in the past). So be mindful of your duty (to Allah), and believe, and do good works; and again: be mindful of your duty, and believe; and once again: be mindful of your duty, and do right. Allah loveth the good.

SHAKIR: On those who believe and do good there is no blame for what they eat, when they are careful (of their duty) and believe and do good deeds, then they are careful (of their duty) and believe, then they are careful (of their duty) and do good (to others), and Allah loves those who do good (to others).

(not all say in the Past as Holy Quran also has nothing like term in the past).

Where is this written, and how have you applied it to me?

Dear bro doing Dava or preaching to join Islam to own Muslims(Sikhs) and not knowing about Allah yourself.

003.007

YUSUFALI: He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

PICKTHAL: He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.

SHAKIR: He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.

Please see previous discussions about the need for Angels.

Allah is indepeandant and can have infinate ways to get things done which Allah inteneds.There is no need of Angels but Angel needs will of Allah to maintain thier existance.Allah is independant to delver meaasge to man with out neding any of the self creations.

To bow, asking Allah(Swt) to show himself, when I have belief that Allah is certain, the Quran is from him , and the messengers have been sent with the message of truth, I will do no such thing.

Good talking to you, looking forward to your response.

Regards,

Umar

sometime a person is so much obssed and fearing of Satan that he will deem Allah's veneration guidance as Satan's trap.

Well satan says such thing and Das does not belvies in the exatance of Iblis.It is in your mind that you precived Das's saying that.

If keeping thoought of Allah and forgetting all wordly things during Salat is asking allah to show self then what you read during Salat,you have not understood.What you read in Salat,keeping those things make you aware of allah all the time.

But thinking Allah and Only Allah dureing Salat/prayer you find as satanic trap.Well das finds you already traped and attempts made by das are been folied.But as Allah is in contral of All,one day das will succed in your keeping Allah and only Allah in mind.

At least during prayer.

Das knew as Muslim Brother as Das does not eat Halal,das said that those guys who drink wine with Hala meat are Haramis(bad),we said that Das said that all Halal eaters are Harami.such in buit insecurty complex is doom for pseudo Muslims,ie to listen what they want they should listen while some other thing has been said.Some time they listen what they fear to lisiten.Allah Hafiz and Thanks to Sunni and Shia brothers to providing das with verses.

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Hi Vijay,

Heres my response, i am working on part two now!

so your name is Umar,one who due to anger went with sabre to kill beloved on Allah and after listeining to Kuran brought faith.Nice.

Yes, that’s the one. He was one of the greatest in enmity to Islam, and then after hearing the Qu’ran, and speaking to his Sister, he converted and became one of the strongest in Islam. Inshallah God makes me be as strong in Islam and as dedicated as him, and inshallah I hope that God opens your heart to Islam in the same way, amen.

There are various explanitons of this text as das told you before.But if we go by defination about matterial changing and find rational or something which could explain that,text goes wrong against the scinese,which has reached so in deiscovry and invention.

The qu’ran has yet to go against science, it has always been proved right. However, I am not one for science and believe the miracle of the quran is in the lack of anyone successfully meeting its challenge.

and as das told you ,did you do study about Wargh Bin Nufai or Al Warogh,who was from intial 3 converts,(others ben perhaps Hazrat Khdiza Razi and Hazrat Zaid(Razi)).

As far as I know, the first convert was Khadija, then Abu Bakr, then Ali, then Zayid. I have not heard of the names you mentioned. I will research and get back to you.

If das in incapable to reach some state due to inter weakness as his Murshid or spirutal guide has reached,then it may not be neccasary that all others can not reachthat state.

Everyone can work towards their own capabilities, and God will judge us on these. I don’t accept concepts such as Murids and spiritual guide, only that Allah(SWT) has given us laws to follow and obey, and we should do this to the best of our abilities.

Tell this truithfully,Hvae you got the meaning of Harf E Muqat?

I am not familiar with this term, please explain, it may be that I know it by a different name.

Dear can you take Allah foregranted that Allah may not want you to have more knowledge.Say if Allah say that something more then 114 Vhapters could to told you to let you understand 114 Chapetrs clearlyly?

It is Allah who dicides that what is sufficient for you and what is sufficient toady may not be same for tommorw.

Say there could be new creations by Allah after 114 Chapters in Universe and in mans intellect.Or can this not be possible that Allah sent 114 suffincet for the Humans at that point of time and more could be needed by now?

But this statement of yours is contradicted by the Verse “And now I have chosen Islam as your religion, and completed my favour upon youâ€. According to God, the Quran IS sufficient, provided with the messenger Muhammad (SAW) to teach the Quran. When Aisha(RA) was asked for a description of the prophet(saw), she said “He was the walking embodiment of the Quranâ€.

Agreed and this is your first step towards Sikhism.

Islam and Sikhism conceptually agree with the idea Of God, what we differ on is how he wants to be worshipped and what his commandments are.

yuo said that Allah is bounded by Promises made by Allah towards you rather you poeple.It is rather Allah guided you rather you people oh Faithfull to go after Shara.It is in control of Allah to rewards who so ever Allah desires.If you want Das can give it from Holy Kuran.

He cannot be bound because he is the Creator. However, inshallah his mercy is that he has provided us with an instruction manual for life, and if we choose not to read the manual while living our life, this is our problem.

Allah is the unlitmate judge.

I agreed with this wholeheartedly, in fact he says in the Quran “And is Allah not the most conclusive of all judges?â€

009.123

YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).

SHAKIR: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

amd one which is appreantly conttrdictonar as follows.

002.256

YUSUFALI: Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

PICKTHAL: There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.

SHAKIR: There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

and then what your self have asked for.

008.039

YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.

PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.

SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

but even if we go by your logic that let Monins take over the rule from non Momins.But say in case of Jews or Say Vedics,they may say that there God is not Allah and they as per thier religous requirement want rule as per thier Faith.So Darul Islam deprives them thier religoeus right to rule and this is case of force based upon religeon.And das gave instances of Faith before Holy Kuran and Allah knew that they existed.

These verses are in complete harmony with what I said , and there is no contradiction.

The first Ayah is referring to taking control of the Law, so that it is Islamic law that is implemented. This is according to tafseer and interpretation of the Ayah by scholars. I will get references for you if required.

The second Ayah is in relation to individuals, which was covered before.

The third ayah reinforces my own comments about the first Ayah.

Historically we can see that this was the understanding of the Prophet(saw) and his companions.

Anyway, with regards Dar-Ul-Islam, Islam allows them to practice their faith, though it does not allow them to rule muslims. However, they may have their own courts for deciding their own laws between themselves, just not between muslims and themselves, because this is the right of the Islamic state.

On a side issue, if Khalistan was established, would muslims have these same rights, would halal food be available for them, etc , etc ?

To be continued ….

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Inshallah God makes me be as strong in Islam and as dedicated as him, and inshallah I hope that God opens your heart to Islam in the same way, amen.

My word, Vijaydeep, cant you see his recruiting you on this a SIKHI forum site.

Why are you even wasting your time replying to him. If he wants to discuss about islam and the contents of the koran, let him do it on a muslim forum site.

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To Muslims, Quran is a holy book, revealed directly to Mohammed through the angel Gibrael. To them, it the absolute truth, the last message to mankind from the Creator of this Universe.

In reality, Quran is a creation of Mohammed's mind and includes collections of stories, brainwashing techniques, general common sense and morals, and some "scientific" statements.

All these elements were either common sense, were borrowed from other religions and sources, or were invented by Mohammed.

A good study of what Mohammed borrowed from other sources, can be studied at the Answering Islam site.

The reason why Quran is not divine, is that, it contains many defects, contradictions, wrong morals and incorrect science, and on top of it, all this has been copied from other sources.

All of Quran's scientific miracles have been refuted many times, such as on the Faith Freedom International website.

Had "Allah" been a true God, He would have made the Quran infinitely strong in such a way that any human being, no matter how hard he/she tried, would never be able to point out any defect in it.

Instead, today, Islam is the World's most hatred and criticised religion, and Quran is being called the "manual of Terrorism".

So, could Quran truely be the "last" message to mankind by the Creator of this wonderful Universe?

Common sense replies with a firm negative.

As a summary of what the Quran actually is all about:

- In most of the verses, Quran keeps praising Allah the non-existent God. When you read the Quran, almost every now and then you'll see familiar verses like 'And Allah is merciful, forgiving' (SURE he is).

- It gives many threats of Hellfire, as well as gives promises of Heaven- this is to entice the believer into action, using this simple push/pull strategy which is used by other religions as well but not to the extent which is used in Islam.

- Quran contains orders for Muslims, how they should live their lives. Not all aspects of life are covered, an example being masterbation, or using your friends login information to access confidential information on company computers.

- Quran contains events and stories of the past. They were mostly copied from other religions. Check here for detailed information on this.

- Quran contains a sprinking of 'scientific' statements, which tried to impress the illiterate reader 1400 years ago. That was the era in which the Sun and the Moon were thought to go around the Earth. Today we know these 'scientific statements' to actually contain wrong science, as well as stuff copied from other religions and scientists of those time. An example is the idea of sperm being generated in the Backbone[Quran 86:6]. This idea was proposed by Greek scientists, and copied by Mohammed. If we had copyright laws 1400 years ago, Mohammed would have been jailed for copyright infringement and there would be no Islam today. Sadly, it was the era in which people buried their infant daughters and thus he took advantage of the fact that people around him were inhuman Arabs with *no* moral sense. Thus, Quran has *little* moral sense, when comparing to universal standards.

If the Quran was 100% bad, it would die out quickly. For this reason, Mohammed included some good things in Quran, so good people would support the Quran and keep Islam alive.

At the same, terrorists act out on the bad teachings of Quran, resulting in global terrorism whose painful effects have been and are being experienced by everyone.

It is these bad teachings of Quran that have jeapordized the Global peace process. One of the many excellent articles which illustrates this point while citing evidence from Quran, can be read here on the FFI web site.

Islamic terrorism will continue to injure mankind and create misery on Earth, until Islam ceases to exist.

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Again to Sikhs2Islam,

As your name indicates "The SIKHS are Saying 2 Islam" Bugger off to heaven of Virgins, Wines and all the other "things" you think you might receive.

Said with extra sugar coated smiles of course!

You people have NO SHAME have you. My word!!..

Just shows your "tactics" to wide and sundry on the net.! Please go recruit a few Christians and leave the Sikhs alone.

:D Look that way :arrow: Yes Thats the way out to your dream land.

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I'm trying to work out who is worse Sikhs2Islam or A_Sikh_For_Life. Both weren't on this forum three weeks ago. Its like a couple of strangers have come into my front room to have a fight.

Although I find the first irritating and blinded by ignorance, I feel the second's arguments are self-defeating since some of them can be applied to Sikhi also.

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Gurfateh

Yes, that’s the one. He was one of the greatest in enmity to Islam, and then after hearing the Qu’ran, and speaking to his Sister, he converted and became one of the strongest in Islam. Inshallah God makes me be as strong in Islam and as dedicated as him, and inshallah I hope that God opens your heart to Islam in the same way, amen.

Brother Das is following the Trut Islam while folowing Gurmat.Rather it may Happen Insha Allah(if Allah wants) that like that Umar(Razi) in past you also join the True Islam and We will give you the name of Bhai Umar Singh(Das' Muslim name is Muhamad Arafeen,a Sikh can have Muslim name as First Masrer name in Muslim is Abdul Majid Guru Nanak).

till you have I and behold your self as self ego,you will never have surrernder to Allah and that surrender is Islam(Hanifi interpeations).

The qu’ran has yet to go against science, it has always been proved right. However, I am not one for science and believe the miracle of the quran is in the lack of anyone successfully meeting its challenge.

Das told you that body of Das may have matter which was once matterof body of pig and that pig might have eaten the plant which had matter of the body of some Muslim Brother and who will get back to life at the day of Qayamat.

yuor interpetaion of Kuran may not be as per scine but das tells you that das's interepetation as per Gurmat over this saying of Kuran could meet scince when seince reaches that state.

As far as I know, the first convert was Khadija, then Abu Bakr, then Ali, then Zayid. I have not heard of the names you mentioned. I will research and get back to you.

no problem but rember just to conter your argument das was acting like Anti Islam.But das would like to say that there are verse which are said to be the conversation with Rasol (SWAS) snd Gibrail.

what we Sikh thinks of Rasol(SWAS) is that he know before he was born that Akal/Allah/Ram sent him.anbd he was eduacted before birth.So he was only apprantly Masoom.

and das forcefully puts that.

Everyone can work towards their own capabilities, and God will judge us on these. I don’t accept concepts such as Murids and spiritual guide, only that Allah(SWT) has given us laws to follow and obey, and we should do this to the best of our abilities
.

no one can even breath if Allah does not want that person to breath so much are we helpless in front of Allah.We are under the influunece of Iblis and do not surrender or practice Islam and then only we say do or he can do or i do.Allah lets us do something and then that thing happens and Allah is the doer.

coming to murshid etc.In Sikhs also there is no Avtar,Paigamber or Rasool but directly and purly to follow Akal/Allah.Sikh themselves say that they are Guru.As they no longer have thier own ego left and thier state is of Khalsa(mind of Allah taking over individaul mind.Some Muslims call it Haq Haq Agah,while Ruh Al Quddus or Holy Ghost state is simalr in non Sikhs).

If Allah wants you to follow something then you follow.

coming back what das meant.

soory to be offensive but Das here meant that people likeyour self who Preach Gurmat Islam,do not have intellect like Rasol(SWAS) and think that Allah can not make other at the same sate as of Rasol.So you say like that.Just by keeping name Mohmud does not end.Many Sufis love Mahbob e Khuda or beloved of Allah and get the same state.

Das agreess to Khatm E Nabuwat or end of prophethood but being at the sate of sprituality or intellect like that of Rasool does not means that person calims to be Rasool.

Colour Xerox is always Colour Xerox and never the origeonal.

I am not familiar with this term, please explain, it may be that I know it by a different name.

so here we go.

In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.

002.001

YUSUFALI: A.L.M.

PICKTHAL: Alif. Lam. Mim.

SHAKIR: Alif Lam Mim.

and there are mnay such.

Rember that they are the part of Book by Allah and nothing sent by Allah is useless.

But this statement of yours is contradicted by the Verse “And now I have chosen Islam as your religion, and completed my favour upon youâ€. According to God, the Quran IS sufficient, provided with the messenger Muhammad (SAW) to teach the Quran. When Aisha(RA) was asked for a description of the prophet(saw), she said “He was the walking embodiment of the Quranâ€.

Dear Brother do you know that in each moring while Sikh does his Path(rembering of God),we call god with a name by Allah.In holy Kuran also it is said that word of god are inexsusatble or never ending.

For us a Sikh God is Allah because A(not) Lah(Exsahistable) so Allah 's Mercy mercy to Man is never finshing.

At one point of time if Allah gives you 100 dinar says that is suffcinet for you and later does Allah makes wife of one person say that person has 100 dinar and is completely OK.

does it bounds Allah to not let other people have 1000 dinars or more?Allah can give as much mercy Allah wants.This is an attempt to bound Allah with Allahs own words.Is not this making association or Shrik with Allah,Allah's own crreations the Words of Allah say as in past often people did do Shirk by making angels as Shareek or Associates with Allah.Should das remids you that?

Islam and Sikhism conceptually agree with the idea Of God, what we differ on is how he wants to be worshipped and what his commandments are.

Brother Umar,there is need for your self to understand Islam and Gurmat more.

First we do not have male God as God is beyind Gender.so God we talk about we are told is the same God of yours(Akal Ustat).Same God of Christians and same God of Hindus soory Old Sanatan Dharmis,who worship formless God like Nath Yogis.

It is you who differ.

For us to be more clearer concpet of worship does not exists,Our God has takne form of whole universe.Same God utilsed us(who are nothing beside the same) to serve self in universe.

We have our ego or mind which always prevent us from surrenrdering(Islam) to God.That ego also work as God direct that ego or mind to work.

Same wants you to to preach us Islam as per you.yuorself are taking postion of a Murshid over here.an intermediatory of Allah words to Kafirs like us as you think.Allah is by self capable to guide us and is guiding us.

Yuor ego or mid think that your are helping Allah.But can you help?Rather Allah in you want to let insect like das sing glory to Allah so your are sent over here.

He cannot be bound because he is the Creator. However, inshallah his mercy is that he has provided us with an instruction manual for life, and if we choose not to read the manual while living our life, this is our problem.

not only Brother should you read but also try to understand that.Allah is not bounded by that mannual he has created and can let you Salvage even if you do not folow that mannual as Allah only let you follow that mannual or not let you follow that Mannual.

I agreed with this wholeheartedly, in fact he says in the Quran “And is Allah not the most conclusive of all judges?â€

so Let Allah judge weather das is right or wrong.On akhirat yourself will find Rasol(SWAS) and Allah and Rasol(SWAS) sits on right side of the throne.Then you ask Rasol(SWAS) only wheather what das said was wrong or right in glroy of Allah.Das will not be there by that time.

all creation will be destroyed and Allah only will remain.All will be brought back to Allah.Das's body will be destroyed and sprit will be destroyed and soul(which is same as Allah only) will be taken back tom place where it was made.Allah created /mnaifested as soul and Allah will merge it back.Allah is not dependant upon FOREGN MATTERIAL TO MAKE ANYTHING,RATHER ALLAH CREATE ALL FROM SELF,ALLAH IS ENRGY AS VISIBLE FORM IS LIGHT AND FROM LIGHT DOES ALL MATTER IS CREATED WHICH GIVS US TIME AND SPACE.

Quran is not against scince but bounding Allah with Quran is not as per scince or even as per Deen E Islam.Holy Quran is rather istelf bounded by Allah.

These verses are in complete harmony with what I said , and there is no contradiction.

The first Ayah is referring to taking control of the Law, so that it is Islamic law that is implemented. This is according to tafseer and interpretation of the Ayah by scholars. I will get references for you if required.

The second Ayah is in relation to individuals, which was covered before.

The third ayah reinforces my own comments about the first Ayah.

Historically we can see that this was the understanding of the Prophet(saw) and his companions.

Anyway, with regards Dar-Ul-Islam, Islam allows them to practice their faith, though it does not allow them to rule muslims. However, they may have their own courts for deciding their own laws between themselves, just not between muslims and themselves, because this is the right of the Islamic state.

On a side issue, if Khalistan was established, would muslims have these same rights, would halal food be available for them, etc , etc ?

To be continued ….

Read it before that Das said apprant contrdictions.

but still you say that some Scholaraa interpret in same way and by historical context.

So there is not where in the verse given from Al Tawaba about taking rule over them,but it is more to fight use of force and let them feel fear(froceing fear) of Allah on them and that may mean forcefull conversion.Das says it is Also OK and not against no force in faith.

If you want das can again eleborate.

Then again coming to Vedic guys.As per Vedic faith,we are told to say convert others to Vedic(in Islamic rule they may not be let Muslim be Vedic and not only such things were in past(whne moghuls opposed Muslims converting to Gurmat but still in Pakistan if some one(Muslim) has to be Sikh then he/she has to come to India and das knows mnay of them).

so in the rule of Puranic,there should not be killing of cow.Or say Vedic again they may not like fellow citizen should worship stone or bow towards any direction.

so Islamic rule ruins thier faith.Even if das agre to yuor interpetaion brother.Das gave refereance to Puranic and Vedic as they are older then coming of Rasol(SWAS).

anyway das has knowldge about why contradiction is not there and only if you want Das himself can answer as Das anwered anti Isamic people before on Sikh forums.Do you wajnt das to answer?anbd Many Muslim also thinks the same morever in India but people from Muslim majroty Area Say that this is wrong interpetaion.

coming to Khalistan thing.Khalistan is word givne by Brahmin Bhai Paramanda like another Brahmin converted to Islam Allama Iqbal agve word Pakistan.Das any way is soory to use term Brahmin but often supporters of Pakistan and Khalistan are Anti Brahmin.Irony.

But das has served Govt of India so Khalistan conceopt for das is differnt ie Das wants it to be in whole of India then say Punjab .And das wants more preaching then say War.

Then say if state rules by Sikhs should Hala be allowed?

Dear brother,Even stoucnhest of Khalistani say babbers were supportive of Muslim butchers doing Halal and killing cows even (record of 1992).

So if we see in the rule of Maharaj Ranjit Singh,Majority were Muslims and Muslims were allowed to convert non belvier into Islam(Rather Wahabi Sayyad Ahmad was killed By Muslims themselves who fought from Sih side and last war with Brtishers for Sikh rules was fought by Muslims only).

So if nation is as per Sikh rule,Muslim can be head of the state,Muslim can convert a Sikh into Islam and can eat Halal.

to be claerer as Das is from Sanatan Sikhs and as per our interpetaion of Gurbani

people who follow Vedas,Bible and/or Holy Kuran are our people of book.We have Three more books of our.which agree to yuor faith as faith of God.

BUT and a Big BUT,we do not consider Jains,budhissts or Hindus as faith as they are more secular and former two are Godless.

Islam is Sanatan Dharam and a form of Santan Dharam(Faith of eteranl(Allah)).

But for us to win mind is to win universe and to behold all universe as family as precondition to join Panth(way to Allah and not the only way as yourself have said).

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I'm trying to work out who is worse Sikhs2Islam or A_Sikh_For_Life. Both weren't on this forum three weeks ago. Its like a couple of strangers have come into my front room to have a fight.

Although I find the first irritating and blinded by ignorance, I feel the second's arguments are self-defeating since some of them can be applied to Sikhi also.

Kind "tsingh" jathedar, humble apologies from me.

I must confess that they werent my arguments but simply a cut paste jobby. I decided that it would be too much of a stress for my poor fingers typing long replies to the completely ignorant and oblivious anti-sikh member.

I will try and do and better job in the future.

Gur Rakha

:):D

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The website www.sikhs2islam.tk has posted a list of questions to Sikhs about so-called “flaws†in the Sikh religion. For believing Sikhs this is of course an absurdity as Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee, the word of God, tells us:

“There is only one true Dharma (faith). Gurmat (Sikhism) is complete and perfect through the ages.â€

(Ang 1188)

Through this attempt to answer the questions posed, we will show that Gurmat is indeed the perfect and eternal faith. The website has the motto “you can’t hide from the truth forever.†Indeed, the truth is that Gurmat is the only complete path and this truth is one that cannot be denied.

1. Is Guru Nanak a False Prophet?

In the list of questions the writer makes the assertion,

“According to Sikh Scriptures (more of which later), he had “millions†of followers.â€

Which Sikh Scriptures claims that he had millions of followers? The absolute absurdity of this article is that the writer is completely unfamiliar with basic Sikh tenets and principles. Sikh scripture is limited to the following: Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee, sacred writings and literature written by Guru Gobind Singh jee, Works of Bhai Gurdas and the works of Bhai Nand Lal Singh. Beyond this are non-scriptural texts that are useful for historical study but not permitted to be sung as scripture in the Gurdwara. These non-scriptural sources are only accepted so far as they coincide with Gurbani. These texts include Rehitnamas, Tankhanama, Janamsakhis, and historical texts like Gurbilas, Panth Parkash, Suraj Parkash, etc.

I think the issue here lies with the question of “prophethoodâ€. Guru Nanak Sahib jee was a Satguru. This is MUCH more than a simple prophet. A prophet by default is one who has the ability to reveal prophecies. According to Muslims, Muhammed had the Koran revealed to him through the angel Gabriel. Satguru receives revelations directly from God. Satguru Nanak Sahib jee was called to God’s court and ordered to reveal the divine Naam to the world. It is written clearly in Sri Guru Granth Sahib:

“Vaheguru gave me His Hukam (Order) to sing His Praises day and night. Vaheguru, my Lord and Master summoned me, His minstrel, to the True Mansion of His Presence. (Vaheguru,) the Image of True Praise and Glory, gave me the Siropaao, robe of honour. The spiritual-life giving Name, Amrit Naam, the True Name, which gives eternal spiritual life, has become my food [sustenance].â€

(Ang 150)

As Satguru, Guru Nanak spoke DIRECT revelations from God and did not use any middle-party like Muhammed. Guru Nanak makes this clear when he says:

"O Lalo! As the Lord’s word comes to me so I deliver it."

(Ang 722)

There are numerous references like this in Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee. Another example is:

"I myself know not what to say; all I speak is what the Lord commands."

(Ang 763)

You have supplied a quote attributed to Guru Nanak Sahib jee “There is no Muslim, there is no Hindu.†This is not found ANYWHERE in Sikh scripture. The closest that can be found is “Neither am I Hindu nor Muslim†(Ang 1136).

The article further says,

When a person claims Prophethood, this claim must then be verified. Prophets throughout history have brought miracles to demonstrate to their people (Moses, Abraham, David, and Others, may peace be upon them all). For example Moses spilt the Red Sea, David was able to melt metal in his hands, and Abraham was able to withstand fire. These miracles have been verified both through scriptures and through science.

I would be interested in knowing how these so-called miracles were verified through science? Were there scientific studies carried out on the veracity of these miracles when they were carried out? Spiritual powers, otherwise known as “ridhi sidhis†are very common in the Indic tradition. Anyone who meditates does gain certain power. The Sikh Gurus however told the Sikhs to shun their use. Miracles that take place by the will of God and by his order are however accepted.

“That alone is spirituality, and that alone is miraculous power, which the Lord spontaneously bestows.â€

(Ang 633)

There have been countless such miracles attributed to the Sikh Gurus and their proof exists even today in local legend and physical evidence. In Hasan Abdal, Pakistan there exists to this day a massive boulder with the palm print of Guru Nanak Sahib jee. This boulder was rolled down on him by Wali Kandhari and was stopped with one hand. A spring of water also created by Guru Nanak Sahib jee still flows there today. Countless similar miracles attributed to the Gurus are recorded and their evidence still exists all across South Asia.

Even in Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee, the coming of Babar (the Mughal invader) and the eventual defeat of the Mughals is prophesied by Guru Nanak Sahib jee and proven to have been absolutely correct.

“Coming in seventy-eight (1521 C.E.), they will depart in ninety-seven (1540 C.E.), and then another brave man will rise up. Nanak speaks the Word of Truth; he proclaims the Truth at this for it is now the time for truth ||2||3||5||â€

(Ang 723)

The fact is however Sikhism rejects just miracles as proof of divinity or “prophethoodâ€. Miracles are a cheap way of winning support from people. The true miracle is changing the self-centered mind to become God-centered and invoking the love of God in people. Guru Nanak Sahib jee made murders, cannibals, thugs, and bandits become Godly through piercing their hearts with love and the power of Naam and Baani. Even magicians or tricksters can perform so-called miracles (e.g. David Blain).

2. Are the Sikh Scriptures authentic?

A. the Janamsakhi

The Bala Janamsakhi has never even CLAIMED to be divine revelation by any Sikh. Sikh scholars have rejected it as a creation of the 19th Century. The research you have presented is that which Sikh scholars themselves have tabled. This Janamsakhi isn’t and has never been read in Sikh congregations.

B. The Guru Granth Sahib Ji

Sikhs claim that this book is the “Eleventh†and final Guru, and should be regarded and revered as a Guru. There is even a tale of this book, upon compilation, to be given its own bed whilst a Guru, Guru Arjan slept on the floor!

For this book to be the 11th Guru, the final way to God and scripture in its own right, surely it would have to be a perfect book, free from errors and contradictions? However, we find that this is not the case.

Some errors include:-

• Teaching God to be “Sargun†(Possessing Attributes) and “Nargun†(Possessing no Attributes).

• Claims there is only one way to God, then says many ways

• Reincarnation is taught in one section, yet is rejected elsewhere

How can it be that a Divinely inspired book, a Guru, a way to God, be so full of contradictions?

In addition to this, the Book provides no details of the origins of the Earth or of Man, and provides no answers to “where did we come from†as a result. Surely any divinely inspired text would present Gods answer to these questions?

The so-called “errors†you have pointed out will be addressed point by point.

1) Sargun (with attributes) and Nirgun (without attribute) is not a contradiction. Unlike the Koran’s numerous grammatical and historical contradictions such as those about the creation of man and various Bible stories, this “contradiction†is even at face value no mistake. In the same line in Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee it is written, “Sargun, Nirgun, the Formless One is in complete Samadhi†(Ang 290) and also “He is himself is Nirgun and he himself is also Sargun†(Ang 287).

Clearly where these are presented in the same verse, there must be a meaning or message. It has not been done accidentally or through oversight.

A simple answer to the apparent “contradiction†is this: God has existed forever. He is without start. He continues to exist. God is formless and his realm is Sachkhand. But just as the sun resides in one place but its rays are everywhere and felt everywhere, so is the nature of God. When God created Creation, He placed His jot or His light within it. Creation has his light within it and so it is not separated from him. When someone becomes spiritually enlightened through Naam, the light of God is seen from creation as well.

2) Can you give me even ONE reference to where Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee points to more than one way to God? There is only ONE way to God and that is through Naam revealed by Guru Nanak. All other ways including Islam fall short.

3) Reincarnation is taught throughout Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee. It is not rejected anywhere. What reference can you give to support this claim? None! Because it’s a total fabrication, which is a sign of desperation to disprove something, which is infallible.

4) Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee also gives a very detailed explanation on the origin of the Universe. The Sikh explanation of creation is much more detailed and true than the story of Adam and Eve etc. Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee describes what was before creation:

"(Before the creation of the world) for endless eons, there was only utter darkness. There was no earth or sky; there was only the infinite Command of His Hukam. There was no day or night, no moon or sun; Vaheguru sat in primal, (like) in profound undisturbed meditation. ||1||"

(Ang 1035)

The universe did not come into existence by itself. The Creator created it:

“From the True Lord came the air (gases), and from the air came water. From water, He created the three worlds (referring to the sky, earth and sea); in each and every heart He has infused His Light. The Immaculate Lord does not become polluted. Attuned to the Shabad, honor is obtained. ||3||â€

(Ang 19)

According to Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee the creation was manifested from the Sunn (void) in which the creator eternally existed:

“In the Primal Void, the Infinite Lord assumed His Power. He Himself is unattached, infinite and incomparable. He Himself exercised His Creative Power, and He gazes upon His creation; from the Primal Void, He formed the Void. ||1|| From this Primal Void, He fashioned air and water. He created the universe, and the king in the fortress of the body. Your Light pervades fire, water and souls; Your Power rests in the Primal Void. ||2||â€

(Ang 1037)

There are three distinct functions that Vaheguru continually performs through his creation:

“Vaheguru, the One Divine Mother, emanated three functions. One, the Creator of the World; One, the Sustainer; and One, the Destroyer. He makes creation perform these functions to the Pleasure of His Will. Such is His Celestial Order.â€

(Ang 7)

Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee also tells us that the universe is not permanent:

"Night and day, and the stars in the sky shall vanish. The sun and the moon shall vanish. The mountains, the earth, the water and the air shall pass away. Only the Word of the Holy Saint shall endure. ||1||"

(Ang 1204)

"Neither the sun, nor the moon, nor the planets, nor the seven continents, nor the oceans, nor food, nor the wind-nothing is permanent. You alone, Lord, You alone. ||4||"

(Ang 144)

Furthermore Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee tells us:

“Many times has the creation been created (the universe been created) and expanded.â€

(Ang 276)

One question, which someone may ask, is “Who created the Creator?†To Guru jee tell us:

“Vaheguru alone is fearless, who has no destiny written on His head. God Himself is unseen; He reveals Himself through His wondrous creative power. He Himself is unattached, unborn and self-existent. O Nanak, through the Guru's Teachings, He is found. ||12||â€

(Ang 1042)

Fundamentally, one must understand and accept that humans cannot understand the limits of God’s creative power, creation and wonder:

“No one knows Your state and extent. You alone created the expanse of the Universe.â€

(Ang 1220)

“O Nanak, the Creator alone knows the workings of His creation. ||2||â€

(Ang 275)

Thus it has been shown Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee gives Sikhs an understanding of the creation of the world that is very scientific and matches the views of contemporary scientists. Very unlike humanity being created out of mud and a human rib.

3. How can Re-Incarnation be Accurate?

When dealing with a question of this nature I like to start off with a ‘test case’. Let’s use that of a baby who is born, screams one scream and then dies. What will happen to this infant? Why was it born? To what purpose was its life? If we go with the Muslim understanding, this baby was born, and Islam provides that it will go to heaven. But if it was only to live for an instant (as many babies do) why did God bother sending it? If this baby will go to heaven and share a spot with the greatest of Shahids (martyrs) who had to struggle through life, is this justice? Why was this baby given such a short life (ie. a short test) while the Shahid was given such a difficult test when the result will be the same i.e. heaven? If you say that the Shahid will have a higher level in heaven then I ask where is the justice in that? The baby wasn’t given an opportunity to get to a higher level.

If you take the Sikh approach, the baby was born due to karma (the law of action and reaction). It had the karma to have lived such a short life and now it will be reborn. The cycle of birth and death continues until the soul attains union with God while alive through Naam and devotion. After this, the soul is forever united with God in Sachkhand and reincarnation is finished. This is a system of total justice.

Why are some born with so many problems be they poverty or physical handicap, etc. while others are born with so many advantages? Where is the justice in this? If the reward is the same (Paradise) why is the test different for different people. This is an inherent injustice. If the reward is not the same (different levels of Paradise) then once again it is an injustice as not all have the same opportunity to achieve the higher levels.

Even the concept of Muslim after-life is an affront to spirituality. The Muslim afterlife of Paradise is an enjoyment of worldly pleasures like rivers of milk and wine and beautiful attendants. These are physical pleasures that are even possible on this Earth if someone has the resources to create them or you just have to travel to your local supermarket and buy as much milk and honey as you desire! Sikhism believes in the existence of Heavens and Hells but not as permanent places as in Islam and Christianity. The soul may enjoy these places for a time as a reward but then must be sent back into reincarnation. The ultimate goal is Sach Khand which is far greater than any Heaven. It is a state of UNION WITH GOD in which the soul forever enjoys SPIRITUAL bliss. Not physical pleasures.

Now to address you points as they appeared:

a) Do you have a measuring tool by which you have determined the world is in decline? Practices like human sacrifice, slavery, brutal wars are far less today than in the past. At any rate, karma is not necessarily a positive-reinforcement process. Bad karma will lead to a negative outcome while positive will lead to a positive. Quite simple! The way Sikhism differs from Hinduism however is that the human is NOT A SLAVE TO KARMA. The way to break out of karma and reach God is through Naam meditation.

The source of “evil†is a separation from God. The soul has the light of God but when the individual is not aware of this, he sees himself as a distinct entity. Independent of all others in creation and will do anything to benefit himself even if it is destructive to others. But a spiritual and God-oriented soul will see that light within himself and in others and will not act selfishly.

B) I have already shown you how the real injustice is in the Muslim understanding of birth and death. It is in fact a system that lacks mercy as well because one who makes a mistake is never given a chance to repent or reform. If someone never has heard of Islam or God, how can they be judged? The system is intrinsically unfair to them. However in the Sikh understanding, even if someone does not know about Sikhism or does not realize God, they can have the opportunity in the future. There is compassion and mercy in this system because God is always forgiving and no soul is forever condemned to Hell. There is always a chance for reform where there is the will.

You bring up the fact that past lives are not recalled. This is for the benefit of the individual. We have enough trouble managing just this one life, if we could recall countless past lives, imagine how much more trouble that would be. Instead of a duty to our immediate family we would have duties to so many parents and siblings, etc. At any rate, reincarnation is not a punishment as you have made it out to be so much as it is a continuation of the soul’s journey. Based on past karma, the soul is placed in a certain situation. Perhaps due to past karma the soul is placed in a situation of total poverty. Whatever the soul decides to do in that situation (earn money through hard work or become a thief, etc) is the source of new karma.

So characterizing reincarnation as punishment is incorrect. It is simply the soul proceeding on its journey.

Even your statement that past lives cannot be recalled is incorrect. There have been countless examples of young children who for whatever reason (perhaps as miracles of God to prove the world the truth of reincarnation) can recall pas lives. Through meditation this becomes quite possible. An interesting article on this quite common phenomenon is at http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020112/windows/main1.htm

c) There are indeed more HUMANS on this planet than before. That however coincides with the elimination of countless animals and natural habitats, forests, etc. The loss of these other types of life forms can easily be shown to balance the increase in human lives.

4. How can God be Omnipotent and within Evil?

As I mentioned earlier, the light of God is within and can be discovered by meditation on Naam. It is because of this very ignorance caused by ego that there is pain and “evilâ€.

There is no rival power to God as in Islam like Satan. How can there be any power opposed to God? Sikhi doesn’t believe that Waheguru created some “evil force†(Satan) that misled Adam and Eve to eat an apple and then took over hell. This is pure nonsense as it implies that Satan (created by Waheguru) could not be controlled or destroyed and became so powerful that Waheguru Himself was unable to liberate His creation (hell) from Satan.

What was creation created from? All that existed was God so what is the source of creation? It has to be God. God’s light is in creation and is why it functions. It is God’s power and his presence in creation that is the source of the miracle of the Universe where everything is in such order.

What is pure and what impure? To God nothing is pure and nothing is impure. Animal excreta are used for burning when dried, and as manure it is spread over fields, which is absorbed by the plants whose fruits and crops we eat. Once we eat this, we excrete this back out. So God’s cycle is the nitrogen cycle as you read in science. We breathe nitrogen, excrete nitrogen, and that nitrogen goes into the soil, which goes into the plants and those plants we eat again. So what is excrement and what is impure? If you think excreta are impure then you shouldn’t eat crops, fruits or even drink water, which is full of animals and organisms’ excreta. For a Sikh the source is God and everything merges back in God.

If Allah created earth then did he not create everything that exists in the earth including excreta, tobacco and wine which is considered haram (unlawful) in Islam on earth but this haram is given as a reward in paradise? As explained before, God created a balance and nothing exists without His will.

5. How can Sikhs claim to have a complete way of Life?

Sikhism is given a clear "Theo-democratic" system of law. Guru Gobind Singh jee, the Tenth Master, in his farsightedness knew that not all crimes are the same and thus no one punishment can be given for them at all: does the thief who steals bread due to hunger receive same punishment as one who steals a car due to greed? No! Thus Guru jee said:

"The Khalsa is my true form, I abide within the Khalsa"

Guru jee gave power to decide these things to the Khalsa in the form of the Panj Piaaray (5 initiated selected Sikhs). The Panj Piaaray look at each case and then give a case-by-case decision. There are no blanket amputations for everyone as some religions may prescribe. There are rehitnaamas and tankhaahnaamas (edicts and codes of conduct) dictated by Guru Gobind Singh jee that clearly outline what is right and what is wrong. For example, adultery is a 'bujjar kurehat', a cardinal sin, for which a Sikh is excommunicated from the Panth (community) and if they wish to become a member of the Panth again, they must then present themselves before the Panj Piaaray to be re-initiated and given corrective measures.

Even beyond the rehitnaamas and tankhaahnamas, there is the concept of Miri-Piri: temporal and spiritual aspects to Gurmat, i.e. a theo-political system. Guru Hargobind Sahib jee gave us the Sikh parliament of Sri Akaal Takhat. The Sarbat Khalsa (entire Khalsa) is the parliament and the motions passed are called "Gurmattas". A system of passing gurmattas is carried out by consulting Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee and then voting on each motion. The Five Takhats are the Centres of Sikh power with the main headquarter being Sri Akaal Takhat. The Five Jathehdars (representatives) are the "cabinet" of the Panth and organise the Panth's movement. The Jathehdaar of Sri Akaal Takhat (Amritsar) has power as spokesperson of the Panth. Akaalee Baba Phoola Singh, for example, was Jathehdaar during Maharaja Ranjeet Singh's time and gave him punishment of a fine and a caning due to his adultery.

Thus it is clear that Sikhism does have a law in Rehitnaamas and tankhaahnaamas along with the Rehit (code of discipline), which is given during Amrit Sanchaar (initiation ceremonies). Local decisions are to be taken by Panj Piaaray, which can be appealed to the Takhats, and Sri Akaal Takhat takes final decisions. The collective Sikh parliament is Sarbat Khalsa and motions are called Gurmattas.

•
How much tax should I pay in a Sikh State, as a Non-Sikh?

Sikhs do not believe in a Jaiziya system like the Muslims where non-Sikhs must pay to ensure their protection. This question therefore is moot. The taxation system in a Sikh state is the same for non-Sikhs and Sikhs.

•
What is the ruling in Sikhism regarding testimony in a court?

A Sikh is to always speak the truth. Unlike in Islam (where the testimony of one man is equal to a testimony of four women), a man’s testimony is equal to a woman’s testimony

•
What is the ruling in Sikhism regarding the sentence for stealing?

Depends on the nature of the crime and how it was committed and why. The answer is given by the Panj Pyaaray based on each case. This is a stark contrast to default amputations of limbs like the Musllims.

•
What is the ruling in Sikhism regarding the age of maturity?

Each person matures at a different rate. If there is a need to determine this, the question is brought to the Panj Pyaaray.

•
What is the ruling in Sikhism regarding my relations with my neighbour?

Sikhism teaches to treat all humans with kindness and compassion be they your neighbour or anyone else.

•
What is the ruling in Sikhism regarding how I should treat an animal?

Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee teaches, “Show kindness and mercy to all life and realize that the Lord is pervading everywhere; this is the way of life of the enlightened soul, the supreme swan. ||7||†(Ang 508)

•
What is the ruling in Sikhism regarding lawful earnings?

Sikhs are taught to earn their living through honesty without infringing on the rights of anyone else. One of the fundamental principles of Sikhism is “kirat karo†or to earn an honest living. Eating food earned through cheating is equal to eating the carcass of a dead animal (Ang 15). Furthermore, earnings should be shared with others and the Sikh system of Dasvandh or 10% of all income being donated is mandatory on all believers. “Through hard work make your earnings and eat, and also give something to others from your hand. Such a person has found the true path†(Ang 1245).

•
What is the ruling in Sikhism regarding killing a non-Sikh and the punishment for that?

Each case is presented before the Panj Pyaaray and based on the merits of the case a ruling is given.

•
What is the ruling in Sikhism regarding riding a horse?

What need would there be for a “ruling†on such a trivial issue? Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee is concerned with the salvation of the soul and light of God. God has blessed humans with common sense and intellect. Riding horses etc. are mundane issues that simple human intellect can resolve.

•
What is the ruling in Sikhism if I use a nuclear weapon?

What is the Islamic ruling? This is a plainly foolish question.

As you can see, Sikhism is a complete and rational way of life. Each situation is judged on its merits as opposed to blanket amputations for crimes like theft (as the Muslims would have it).

6. What is a Just War in Sikhism?

The writer asks, “When we see this in practice however, we can see that very rarely has a Sikh War been any different to any other war fought on behalf of misguided religions: For Land, Nation and Resources. “

This is an interesting comment coming from a Muslim. Have Muslim wars been for anything different? Muslim conflicts today in Kashmir, Chechnya, Palestine, Sudan, Afghanistan, Iraq are all based on nothing but land, nation and resources.

You have given a list of examples, which frankly are non-sensical. As mentioned before, Sikh struggles are governed by the Sri Akal Takhat Sahib through the institutions of Gurmata passed by the Sarbat Khalsa. This has been the system in the past. Demanding that Panjab’s resources be controlled by Panjab and the elimination of those who are killing innocent civilians does not seem unjust. You are correct however that bombing of civilian targets is condemned by Sikhs. On the other hand Muslims in the name of Allah of infamous for committing suicide bombings and killing innocent men, women and children for the Islamic cause. If people professing the Sikh faith do such things they are wrong and to be held accountable. The Guru has taught a Sikh to use violence at the last resort when all other means have failed and even that situation the rights and life of the weak, oppressed and innocent should be guarded at all costs regardless of gender or faith. A Sikh defends himself, his nation and the weak – A Sikh never instigates attack as in Islam in pursuit for wealth, women slaves (who are sexually exploited) and spreading Islam by the sword.

But once again it seems very strange for a Muslim to be commenting on the unjust nature of bombings when Muslims are known for bombing civilian targets around the world. We need not look any further than the London 7/7 bombings or suicide bombings in Iraq and Palestine. The number of innocent civilians unintentionally killed by those professing the Sikh faith is almost nothing in comparison to the lives intentionally lost to Muslim terrorists.

7. How can God Create himself?

Gurbaani is the infallible word of God, within which there are no contradictions. Humans can make mistakes when interpreting, translating or understanding Gurbaani, however the Guru and God are Perfect.

“Everyone makes mistakes; only the Guru and the Creator are infallible.â€

(Ang 61)

The Mool Mantar, the first verse of Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee describes God. It states God is “ajoonee†(unborn) and “saibhuN†(self-existent). The Mool Mantr is the yardstick of Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee and is the foundation of Sikhi.

One should be careful when reading translations and understand that some words are difficult to translate to another language and sometimes the exact word is difficult to find. Therefore, it is best if one reads the original script in Gurmukhi.

The Shabad (hymn) on Ang 463 says:

“Pauree: The Almighty Himself fashioned the world and Himself assumed His Name. Secondly, He fashioned the creation; seated within the creation, He beholds it with delight. You Yourself are the Giver and the Creator; by Your Pleasure, You bestow Your Mercy. You are the Knower of all; You give life, and take it away again with a word. Seated within the creation, You behold it with delight. ||1||â€

(Ang 463)

According to Gurbani God has always existed and uncreated:

“He cannot be established, He cannot be created.â€

(Ang 2)

When in Gurbaani it refers to “creating Himself†or “fashioning Himself†it means that God Himself manifested Himself from His Nirgun (invisible) form, whichever forever existed, to his Sargun (visible) form.

8. Why can Sikh women not Divorce?

The Muslim writer questions:

"Sikhism still does not give the right of divorce to its adherents except in extreme circumstances, and even then since it is not legislated within Sikhism this is decided by Western or Hindu Courts.

This is mentioned in many sources, and some quotes from Sikhs are as follows:-

“In the case of broken marriage, divorce is not possible according to the Sikh religious tradition. The couple can, however, obtain a divorce under the Civil law of the land.â€

Of more concern is how Sikhs refuse to even consider divorce, leaving the spouse trapped in a loveless marriage. Take this example from the Sikh Spectrum Magazine:-

When two souls become one, there is no duality between the way a husband and a wife think. Whatever they do, they do it together. A divorce, in such a case, is inconceivable.

It is incredulous that anything calling itself “the modern religion†still does not emancipate women and give them independence. "

Answer: Divorce in Sikhism is considered a very grave matter. When the marriage takes place the husband and wife agree in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee to stay with each other and love and honour each other for life. If marital discord takes place, the community intervenes. Panj Pyaaray can be asked to help resolve the situation.

In the extreme and very rare case where one side simply refuses to reconcile one party may ask the permission of the Sangat or Panj Pyaaray to divorce and re-marry.

Marriage is not however considered something that can be formed and broken at will. It is a commitment made in front of God and to be relieved of that commitment to the other person some very extenuating circumstances must be present.

Sikhi teaches us how to become rational thinker moral beings. Guru Sahib has taught His Sikhs how to think in a moral way. This shows how much free thinking Guru Sahib has given to His Sikhs. It is a fact that divorce is not a simple thing as it involves lives of two human beings. There can be many different situations and circumstances related to divorce. Stating every different situation is ridiculous because a divorce can involve a simple reason to many complex reasons. There can be numerous possible solutions to one case. Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee is not a rule book. Gurbani teaches us how to think and how to tackle every problem and find the best solution. This is why Guru Sahib gave the power to Sikhs to make decisions that are best for everyone. Gurbani gives freedom of free thinking whereas archaic and inflexible rules would not.

In Sikhism marriage is highly regarded and both man and woman must respect one another as they join together to share their spiritual path and goal in life. Unlike in Islam where you have “muttah marriages†which are temporary marriage to sanctify immediate sexual gratification of lecherous men who can annul the marriage by saying “Divorce†three times in the presence of another Muslim. Very convenient for men who have little or no morals and who see woman as nothing more than cattle who they can sexually exploit. Furthermore, the Quran sanctifies and provides justification for Masters to take sexual advantage and sexually exploit their slaves without marrying them as the slave girls are the Master’s property.

Buying and selling of women as sex slaves is fully permitted in Islam. It is a perfectly a legitimate way to acquire as many sex-slaves as possible. Sky is not the limit, though. The only limitation is the affordability. One may say that this type of flesh trading is no more practiced today. This is true. However, nothing can prevent the Islamists from re-introducing the slave markets as per Qur’an and Sunnah when their ‘Jihad’ against the infidels is successful. Sexual slavery is absolutely legitimate in Islam. If Islam conquered the world, slavery could have never been eradicated, because Islamic laws are written on granite stone and are absolutely unchangeable.

"You can have sexual intercourse with two slave girls at a time without ghusl (bath) but can’t do like this with free women…" (Malik’s Muwatta 2.23.90) Furthermore, Muhammed also encouraged the rape of captured women in front of their husbands:

“Abu Sa'id al-Khudri said: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, send down the Qur'anic verse: "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hand possess."[surah 4:24] ...Sunan Abu Dawud, Book V, Chapter 711, Number 2150â€

Muhammad himself had a Coptic slave that was presented to him by the ruler of Alexandria in Egypt. When the delegate from Muhammad visited this Coptic head of Egypt (Muaqaqis) with an invitation for him to convert to Islam he politely refused to do so, but knowing the taste of Muhammad, he presented Muhammad with two beautiful slave-girls who were sisters. Muhammad took for himself Mariya, the most beautiful one and gave her sister, Sirin, to his poet friend, Hassan ibn Thabit for him to enjoy her. Please note that neither Muhammad nor Hasan b. Thabit married these slave-girls. Mariya gave birth to Ibrahim, Muhammad’s last child who died in infancy. Sirin bore a son named Abdul Rahman to Hassan, the poet (ref. 10, p. 498-499). All these historical records are absolute proof that enjoying a female slave is totally ‘halal’ in Islam. You can read more about immoral sex and sexuality in Islam on http://www.islamreview.com/articles/sexinislam.shtml and http://www.answering-islam.de/Main///Silas/mo_sex.htm

This is a stark contrast to Satguru Nanak’s example. When the King of Sangladeep sent dancing girls to entertain and seduce Guru Nanak Sahib jee, Guru Sahib said,

"O princess, my daughter, run away from this place!

Chant the True Name, and embellish your days.

Serve your Beloved Lord God, and lean on the Support of His Love.

Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, abandon your thirst for corruption and poison. ||7||"

(Ang 1187)

The concept of slavery or sexual relations outside of marriage is absolutely forbidden in Sikhism, unlike in Islam.

In Islam if a man says “Talaq†three times to his wife, they have to get divorced. This cannot be reversed which makes it clear that any Muslim under the influence of frustration or anger can simply destroy the relationship and the lives of his children. A woman on the other hand has no right or say in this. If Islam was really all about equality then the woman would also have the right say the same word three times to get a divorce. But this is not the case. Man has more rights and final say. There is little to no room for thinking and communication. Once the word “Talaq†has been said it brings the hell process only for women.

1) A divorced woman has to wait three months and then she gets the right to remarry.

2) Divorced woman cannot remarry her previous husband. She first has to marry someone else, consummate the marriage and get divorce in the same manner and only then she can remarry her previous husband.

This practice of inequality makes women suffer so much. Assume a man says “Talaq†three times in anger and gets a divorce. Now, he wants to remarry his wife and the woman wants the same as they both love each other very much. But this cannot happen. The woman has to marry someone else and consummate the marriage. If she gets a divorce from her newlywed husband only then she can remarry love of her life. If her new husband refuses to give divorce, her whole life is ruined and she is forced to spend her life with someone she doesn’t love. This is what traps a woman in a loveless marriage because the husband has no such punishment. Even if the woman gets a divorce the very next day, she still has to undergo humiliation as she will have to spend a night with someone she doesn’t consider her life partner. It is a woman who gets trapped, punishment and is forced to go through humiliating and barbaric process. Where is the so-called equality? It exists no where in Islam.

9. How can Sikhs Claim that there are “many paths to Godâ€, then he Punishes those whom do not adhere to Sikhism?

It is a ‘totally false’ argument that Sikhi believes all paths lead to the same goal and thus all religions are equal. From its very inception, Gurmat (the Guru’s Path) has been declared a unique and distinct path. Bhai Gurdaas jee writes:

“In the world, Guru Nanak Sahib jee established the authority (of his doctrines) and started a Path (of religion), devoid of any impurity.â€

(Vaar 1, Pauree 45 – Bhai Gurdaas jee)

The claim that all paths lead to the same goal is covered in Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh jee’s book ‘Anhad Shabad Dasam Duar - Open discussion of unstruck ethereal music at tenth door of abode-divine’, pages 46-47:

"The Liberation-state of Gurmat is unique and different in concept from other religious faiths. Liberation is not the mere ending-up of the human body or just an escapement of the soul from its bodily cage. Some envisage liberation as riddance from afflictions associated with the human body. They believe liberation is unattainable as so long as the soul is caged within the human body. Others identify liberation as the fulfillment of their desires to abide in a heavenly abode. However, this kind of liberation falls very short compared to the Gurmat concept of liberation. Liberation is not the banishment of imagined pain and sorrow, nor can it be described as the disassociation of the soul-being from materialism. Yogic faith conceives liberation as empty consciousness through meditational practices that bear no semblance to the Gurmat concept. Vedantic faith believes in the removal of duality to arrive at oneness with The Absolute, in order to be liberated. Buddhism believes liberation to be a state of total renunciation of desire and negative thought - Nirvaana. Jainism considers that non-violence and non-killing leads to liberation. Mere escape from transmigration is not the essence of True Liberation....

Gurmat considers the above listed forms of liberation as halfway and incomplete. The swan-bird Gurmukhs who are blessed with Divine Enlightenment reject all these forms. They merge with The Divine Immaculate Light whilst living; they envision The Glorious Lord in full Divine Splendour.

Gurmukhs are sustained by the nourishment of Naam-Divine, while they behold The Lord at all times. They find True Liberation within this Love-Divine...Their Liberation lies in the sole occupation of Naam-Devotion, in accordance with Gurmat. This supreme state is reached through complete dedication, when one takes refuge within The Guru...what is not sought is a form of liberation devoid of God-Realisation."

If we use this viewpoint to analyse some mainstream schools of thought, we may reach the following conclusions:

In Hindu or Vedantic traditions, Liberation = various states according to different schools i.e. freedom from transmigration, realisation of self as God (Sohang) etc.

In Buddhism, Liberation = escape from desires / realisation of the nature of self / Nirvaana.

In Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, Liberation = heavenly abode

In Sikhi, Liberation = absorption into Vaheguru/Naam, the destruction of self/ego, the merging of Aatma (soul) into ParAatma (Universal Soul) - all of which can only be achieved through complete dedication to The Guru's Teachings.

The concept of equality exemplified by Sikhi is not the result of a debate concerning religions. The Sikhi concept of equality is an inward and outward acceptance of all and seeing everyone as a soul with the same divine father, rather than religious labels, which results directly from the practice of Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee's teachings.

When it comes to true enlightenment, or liberation, Guru jee is very clear about its unique nature and definition within Gurmat; and in doing so we are taught who and what really is The True Teacher.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee over and over stresses the importance of "Gurmat Naam". Without Gurmat Naam no one can merge in Vaheguru or reach ‘Sach Khand’ (the spiritual Realm of Truth). In the House of Guru Nanak only Naam is found, the only tool to experience and merge into God.

“God has given this gift. Nanak’s home is filled with only Naam, the Name of Vaheguru. ||4||4||â€

(Ang 1136)

Without Naam, no one can be liberated and merge with God. GurbaaNee is clear about this fact:

“Those enshrined the True Name within their heart, those within is the flowing current of Naam, and those whose consciousness is attached to the vibrations of the Guru's Baani obtain all comforts and liberation from Maya (the illusionary world). O Nanak! Without the Naam, no one is saved; You too swim across to the other side this true way in which there no chance of drowning. ||9||7||â€

(Ang 1013)

Sikhi is unique by the fact that it does not condemn others to Hell or say if you are not Sikh you are eternally damned like in Islam. Rather a Sikh prays at least twice daily for "Sarbat Da Bhallaa", meaning the good and prosperity of all Humanity regardless of religion, belief or faith.

"May the Divine-Name preached by Nanak be exalted. May all prosper and be blessed within Your Will."

(Daily Sikh Ardaas)

Unless someone receives Gurmat Naam from Guru Nanak, there is no liberation. They will be rewarded for their good karma, but not liberated. They don't want liberation! Christians are content with heaven, and they will receive it. But then they will enter the cycle of births and deaths again, hopefully in a life, which will bring them closer to liberation. Gurmat Panth's respect of all religions goes as far as saying that they are not sent to eternal hell, they will get what they work for. Like Harmandir Saahib: God is open and available to all directions and all people of the world, but the path to God is ONE: Gurmat.

About other faiths:

"Some are Jains, wasting their time in the wilderness; by their pre-ordained destiny, they are ruined.â€

(Ang 1285)

â€The Hindu is (spiritually) blind; the Muslim has only one eye.â€

(Ang 875)

“Prabhaatee: (O Hindu and Muslim brothers!) call the religions of the Vedas and Semitic books & Quran etc false. Those who do not realise this are false.â€

(Ang 1350)

All faiths will get what they work towards. Guru Nanak Sahib jee is the only True Guru who has preached Naam, and given Gurmat-Naam. Only Gurmat has a concept such as Sach Khand and God-Realisation in such a clear way. Thus, Gurmat is the only path to Sach Khand, i.e. merging with God.

You ask:,

“In Sikhs claims that there are “no chosen peopleâ€, why must people adhere to Sikhism to be saved? Why must they take the Khalsa?â€

“No chosen people†means that no one is created higher than the other. Sikhi clearly says that only those will be accepted in the court of Waheguru who live true way of life as taught by Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee. This opportunity is only offered by becoming a Sikh. Khalsa is protector of justice and honor, fights injustice and oppression and always stands on the truth. In that sense, those who become Khalsa are indeed “chosen†to walk the path of spirituality and reunite with the Creator. Becoming a Khalsa is an honor and Muslims should consider themselves lucky to have such a beautiful path offered to them. It is for their own benefit to give up the incomplete and imperfect religion of Islam and adopt the Sikh way of life.

10. Why is Sikhism Not Evangelical?

Sikhism is the TRUTH. Therefore, Sikhs do not frighten others to convert to the religion as in Islam and Christianity with fear of eternal damnation, discrimination, inferiority, oppression and torture. Sikhs do not have to lure people to become Sikhs through greed and appealing to their lower desires as in Islam and Christianity. There are countless examples from Sikh history and world history where Muslims have offered rewards of land, money, women as sexual slaves, and exemption of Jaiziyah (tax on non-Muslims). Sikhism is the Truth and so rejects evangelical methods practiced by Muslims and Christians with appeals to one’s lust, anger, greed, attachment or ego. Inducing others to convert for the purpose of seeking physical rewards in heaven is not the Sikh way.

A Sikh is an evangelical. However the definition of an “evangelical†is redefined. A Sikh INSPIRES others. A Sikh lives the message, lives the Truth and lives the spiritual lifestyle, which radiates to those who come across him or her. A Sikh merely does not preach the message of Truth that benefits the world and everyone around however furthermore lives the message. Hypocrisy as displayed by Muslim preachers and Christian evangelicals is condemned! First practice what you preach!

Sikhism was meant to be shared with the world and as the Truth is for everyone. Unfortunately Sikhs have not lived up to this. Unlike in Islam and Christianity where they impose their religion on others to earn brownie points and for personal gain to get to Paradise or Heaven, the aim of a Sikh is for the betterment of humanity and not for self-gain. This is highlighted through the daily prayer of a Sikh, which one does morning and night asking for the good of all humanity through the Will of God.

“Servant (of God) Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that GurSikh, who himself repeats Naam, and inspires others to repeat it. ||2||â€

(Ang 306)

And also:

“Repeat Naam yourself, and inspire others to repeat it as well.â€

(Ang 290)

So as you can see it is a duty of Sikhs to preach the message of Naam and Gurmat.

We close this rebuttal with: Come to Sikhi, Muslim brothers! As it is the only path to salvation. Without adhering to the message of Guru Nanak Sahib jee no one has been saved and no one ever will be. Sikhi is a unique Path, unlike any other! It is not based on fear, greed, lust, anger, hatred or ego – Sikhi is solely based on the Truth. A Sikh lives the Truth and inspires others with the Truth. Everyone has been blessed with life, however Guru Nanak Sahib jee alone is the one who puts the “style†in life. The true and perfect lifestyle, which brings total happiness, bliss and spiritual achievement, has been lived, exemplified and preached by Satguru Nanak Sahib jee!

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Hello,

I have been sitting back over the last couple of weeks reading the postings made by the Sikh members of this forum in retaliation to an "anti-Sikh" website.

I like the use of the word “antiâ€. It comes across as if the Sikh faith has been victimized. Are “10 questions†really that threatening and constitute as being “anti Sikhâ€. If I was to enter the Gurdwara and ask the Giani ten questions would I be considered “anti-Sikh†too?

Let me ask you this rhetorical question which only Almightly God can answer. If Sikhism is the Truth, why is it that the biggest threat facing Sikhs are their own people. The number of Amritdhari Sikhs has diminished incredibly over the last decade alone. I recently attended the International Sikh Forum and the statistics were astonishing. I’ll try to source the slides they presented.

I’m sure you would agree with me when I say that the truthful never lose. Allah will always favour the ones who hold firm to the Truth and fight injustice in His name. If Sikhi is the “Truth†then why is the strength of the Sikh body deteriorating so rapidly? There is one obvious answer to this – it’s not the Truth.

Now before you wave your hands up in the air and wage a war of words with me let me say this. Think about what I’ve just said and understand why I’ve said this. My Brtoher Umar has asked 10 questions, and received about 10 different answers for each of the 10 questions asked. That’s the problem.

The Sikh text is so ambiguous that each Giani, and ultimately each Sikh, will have different ideas on fundamental questions like life after death, the concept of Satguru, the purpose and role of the Guru in Sikh spirituality. Spirituality achieved through Simran, is the central purpose of a Sikhs life. It all sounds well and dandy but it is not enough to function as a creation of God with worldly duties to perform too. If you think you will merge with God simply through meditation while forgoing everything else well think again.

All religions share a common theme and emphasis on the human spirit. Meditation, whether it is a series of prostrations or sitting in a quiet corner reciting His name is still meditation. Sikhs do not own exclusive rights to this. Instead of reading the answering Islam website find out for yourself how the Prophet Muhammad (may Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) prayed and meditated. You will be astonished. He bowed to no book and attributed ALL (in verse and speech) praise to Allah as opposed to singing praises about the Gurus at Gurdwara. And please don’t patronize me by using the Kaaba as an example of idol worship. Learn about the purpose of the Kaaba before you pass your comments. Plenty of websites you can refer to on that one. Read the Koran and it’s view on idol worship.

I wonder whether anyone here has read the specific references made by Guru Nanak to the Koran - incredible. Read the shabad by Guru Nanak about God’s parable to light, and find out what he really meant by what he said. It stemmed from a certain verse in Surah 9 in the Koran. If you think that shabad was nice, read the verse that was the source of that shabad - powerful. Don’t take my word for it, find out for yourselves. I am not one to throw around quotes out of context as I am the first to admit I do not know enough. But at the same time I have done my share of research to discover that there is only one Truth in this world. It is not God in the form of Satguru in the form of Nanak who are all one in the same – if you believe that then you will have no issues with the Christian’s trinity. The only Truth that has and will remain forever is Allah.

What is Allah? The God of the Muslims? A vengeful punisher full of terror? Before a Muslim does a righteous deed what does he/she say? Do they say “In the name of God the Fearsome, the Avengerâ€? No, we say “Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim†which translates to “In the name of God the most Gracious, the most Mercifulâ€. But we believe that God is limitless and as such do not limit Him to these two attributes.

The word Allah stems from the root word “al†meaning “the†and “illah†meaning “god†– “THE GODâ€. No other god but THE GOD. It may seem quite simple but I ask you to think about what the difference is between god and God. And ask yourselves once you have learnt this whether the way in which you worship Guru Granth Sahib and Guru Nanak whether they constitute as being a god according to the Oxford or Macquarie dictionary. Kirtan is worship, and when you sing the praises of God the same way you sing the praises of the Gurus well that’s just “not cricket†as far as I’m concerned.

The purpose of me writing this response is to ask you to remove your misconceptions about Islam. “Sikh Answers†wrote some very incorrect statements about Islam that he sourced from the net and his preconditioned notions. Whether you are convinced by Islam or not is irrelevant. You claim to stand for the Truth, then do the research “unbiasly†and fight against the lies and fabrications. There are enough conspiracies and uneasiness in this world without the need for someone else to jump onboard heresay and cultural and political stereotypes.

I ask that THE GOD gives us the strength to untangle our hearts and allow His light to guide us on our journey from this life to the next.

Submitter

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Submitter,

Either answer the refutation or keep quiet. Simple.

Does the Koran not authorize slavery, beating of wives and tax on "non-believers" as well as blanket amputations for all thieves?

If I asked a list of 10 questions from Muslims in general, guaranteed I'd get even more answers than you see here. Shias, Sunnis, Ahmedis, Sufis and countless subsects would have their own answers. Sikhs have different schools of thought but without the black lines between the adherents like in Islam. Different answers are expected.

You've suggested Guru Nanak referenced the Koran: if this were so, he'd have given such a reference to his Sikhs no? Just because something seems similar to you, it clearly does not mean that it is a reference.

Instead of reading the answering Islam website find out for yourself how the Prophet Muhammad (may Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) prayed and meditated.

I might be able to bring myself to do this if I could understand why he encouraged his followers to rape their captives and while in his 50s had sex with his friend's 9 year old daughter.

If Sikhi is the “Truth” then why is the strength of the Sikh body deteriorating so rapidly? There is one obvious answer to this – it’s not the Truth.

What measurement do you have that the Sikhs are deteriorating? Do you have a gauge? If you want to discuss what's truth and what's not and how God's treating the believers, the Muslims aren't doing all that well either. You're being bombed, smashed and beaten across the world. Muslim beliefs have been exposed as filled with violence and brutality and they create violent and brutal people. Hence the below point:

You said

we say “Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim” which translates to “In the name of God the most Gracious, the most Merciful”. But we believe that God is limitless and as such do not limit Him to these two attributes.

You say that while slitting throats as well along with Allah Hu Akbar! Those words no longer have any meaning to you. Muslims in the name of "mercy" and "grace" can ruthlessly behead innocent civilians without a second thought.

Your comments on Guru and God are born out of ignorance and shows that you fail to understand the concept of Satguru. Satguru is one with God and is sent by God to lead souls back to him. But just like a drop in the ocean is a part of the ocean but not the ocean in itself, Satguru is the same. Bowing to Satguru is submission to the teachings and respect of the divine qualities enshrined. What divine qualities do you bow to in the Big Black Box? How about kissing the Black Rock? Why? Clearly idol worship.

At any rate, just like you've invited us to read the Koran, I invite you to read Guru Granth Sahib and see how the issue of Guru and God is treated.

But like I said, either refute the article above or keep quiet.

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In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful

Sikh Answers,

The last I check this was a "discussion forum". I am free to express what I like and asking me to "stay quiet" is simply disrespectful. Do you think you hold all answers to the universe, “Sikh Answers� I know for a fact you don't.

Your response is no different to what I read and see in the media about Islam. Do you work for Fox News by any chance? If not I suggest that instead of spending time typing up misinterpretations and placing my words out of context, look into it for yourself UNBIASLY.

Your arguments are shallow and superficial, and I will try to inform you (not refute) accordingly. I do not like using the word “refute†as it implies conflict. Practise the love and tolerance which you preach and we can continue discussing religion in a tolerant, respectful manner, and I will try to do the same.

I will try to answer the questions to the best of my knowledge. If I have failed to answer all questions I will endeavour to do so soon.

Jizya (Tax on non-believers) and Punishment for Thieves

Before we start, you must understand this - Islam is a system of life. It is a system that provides guidelines (Shariah) for belief, social conduct, welfare, government, judicial, economics, warfare and more. Only when all of these components combined and certain other conditions satisfied will a territory become what is known as an "Islamic State".

Now pay attention to this part. Your question about tax and capital punishment ONLY applies to a society governed by Shariah. Common sense. You wouldn't apply a progressive tax system in a Communist state – it will throw the whole system off course. Similarly when applying Islamic Law, one has to apply it in its TOTALITY - you cannot pick and choose components to apply.

In regard to Jizya, it is a tax on non-Muslims as you rightfully state. But what is it for. If you are not Muslim and live in an Islamic state it is almost as if it were a service charge. As a non-Muslim, upon paying Jizya you have rights over the State such as right to participate in State funds and enjoy police or military protection. If an army was to invade, ALL citizens will be defended, Muslim or not. There is a severe misconception that the model Islamic State does not favour it's non-Muslim citizens – Rubbish (read into it). And besides let me assure you that the rate Jizya is levied at is tiny compared to tax rates you happily pay to your governments.

In a State that conducts ALL it's affairs in accordance with Shariah, the punishment for theft is to cut off their hand. Theft is a serious crime whereby you restrict the right of someone to enjoy what they own and have earned. You questioned why a thief stealing out of necessity and a thief stealing out of greed receive the same punishment. But you failed to find out and acknowledge that in an Islamic State, where this ruling can ONLY apply, ALL necessities are provided for – food, water, utilities, shelter, clothing. If there is a single citizen that does not have the basic necessities, the State is failing – full stop. The welfare system will need to be readdressed. It is a command from the Creator that Zakaat (Charity) must be given. It is not some political parties method of gaining the public opinion. There will be no NECESSITY to steal. If citizens are being deprived of necessities, the Shariah has not been implemented and as I said previously, carrying out rulings and judgments in absence Shariah is not allowed. As such, in an Islamic State any theft is deemed “unnecessary†and out of one’s greed and desires.

You asked:

“What measurement do you have that the Sikhs are deteriorating? Do you have a gauge?â€

Do you have a gauge to show otherwise? I’m going off what Sikhs at the forum told me and from the increasing number of Sikhs cutting their hair. It’s a generalizing statement but it is the trend. I’ve attended enough Gurdwaras for long enough period of time to witness it for myself.

You also asked:

“If you want to discuss what's truth and what's not and how God's treating the believers, the Muslims aren't doing all that well either. You're being bombed, smashed and beaten across the world. Muslim beliefs have been exposed as filled with violence and brutality and they create violent and brutal people.â€

That put a smile on my face. Let me tell you this and listen up. You cannot defeat a people that will happily give their life for their religion. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain my dear friend. Let them bomb us, rape us, torture and kill us. We have the Creator of the Heavens, Earth and Entire universe conspiring with us. We will NOT be defeated until the last drop of blood from the last martyr spills. Allah is the most Just.

Allahu ahkbar! - GOD IS THE GREATEST!

Even you can't deny that one.

Submitter

PS Let me assure you that we have not lost meaning of that phrase!

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Gurfateh

Submitter has good points but may not know that the form of Sikhism she/he talks in only one but there are many and Islam is also one.But let there be more fight with followers of Same Allah.

All happens as Allah wants to happen.Kirtan is not worship but to sing glory of God.Hazrat Ayyub(AS) or Job,and ther si a book of him in Old Testment.Read it before telling thta Kirtan is worship.

Knowldge of Islam and Sikhism lack not only to Muslims here but Sikhs also else Sikh must not condem Islam(Das thinks that Sanatan Sikhs will know be convinsed that so far das did not put any word from RSS,which das still wanted to put and had told some Hindu Brothers to put thier views also).

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