simrun255 Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 is nidar singhs book out yet ????? or his website updated, it seems that he has vanished from this planet 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 nidar singh book will be no difrent from his website, juss more nihang oral tradition to justify their claim to evrything good. or bad. its suposed to be out this march . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Nihang Niddar Singh Ji's book should be out this summer. It will be preety amazing, as many years of research has gone into it (irrelevent of what individuals think of him), he hs interviewed many Akalis Nihang Bajurg from all around India to attain and preserve as much oral tradition as possible. Oral tradition should not be shunned, it is through oral tradition that many aspects of Sikhi have survived i.e. Raag Vidya, Shastar Vidya, Santhia etc.. although some efforts were made in literacy, for the amount of knowledge contained within the Sikh traditions, they were miniscule. Vaheguru 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Oral tradition should realy be considered for all samprdaye and schools then shaeediyan. Niddar Singh discounts taksal of Bindra mehta and uses a quote from prof. trilochan singh to back up his claim, and states that after years of requests they have not been able to provide any texts to back their claim. So what? niether have the budha dal, but he accepts what they say. What does he have against the jatha of bhindra mehta? Oral tradition can be used to justifly anything. But remember the chinese whispers game. Oral tradition for one, Oral Tradition for all. Victory to the Panth chatanga 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Most of the topics in Niddar Singhs book have written tradition to back it up, and the oral tradition fills in the blanks. Oral tradition works when there is evidence available, for example the existence of Akali Nihangs, the Misls, the 2 Dal factions, and the Maryada. However this cannot be said for the DDT. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Written evidence? Dont make me laugh. The very existence of Budha Dal as a Guru ordained samprdsay is rubbish. Budha Dal only came about with Nawab Kapur Singh and YES there are texts that say this. So here is where oral tradition works. why cant the same apply to DDT? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Pyare veer Chatanga Ji, This was not a debate about peoples personal views, and they are irrelevent here. I am not saying that Nihang Nidder Singh Ji is antarjami, no one is, that does not mean discount all their knowledge. The book will contain evidence backed research, not simply his own views, but those of the remaining Akali Bajurg and their consolidated know how, alongside many years of hard researched and fact based evidence taken from genuine historical records. Nihang Singh Ji's view on Bindra Mehta are of no consequence and not the topic of discussion. I am sure if anyone is so passionate about their jathaa and it's lineage as Nihang Singh Ji is, they will dedicate there life, research, provide and preserve knowledge in the form of academic research, in order to ensure future generations of Sikh youth have a true picture of the past. Personally I am not as interested in the Budda Dal element (although very interesting) as I am in viewing glimpses of Sikhs of the old and their habits, jeevans, actions... for these little fact based insights will be of benefit to the panth as a whole and us as individuals, who mostly try and preserve and understand our Guru's traditions. Vaheguru 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Niddar Singh is presenting a tradition of the past. But these 4 samprdaye todays apart from sewapanthi, and nirmala are not a patch on the samprdaye of old. the Nihangs and Udasis most certainly are not. Niddar Singh claims that they are. This is rubbish. One day at Darbar Sahib a brahmin came and started crying that his wife had been taken by the soldeirs of the subedar of kasur. Akali Lehna Singh Bhangi and all the other Sikhs who were sitting and eating langar at once stood up, and mounting their horses prepared for war. They attacked Kasur and brought back the brahmins wife. Now could you ever see Baba Santa Singh Jee or any of the other Nihang Singh making a similiar stand in todays times if the son of the Punjab Chief Minister kidnapped a girl? Exactly. Thats why the traditions are alive only in name. In 1982 the police attacked Baba Kirtan Singh shuani in Amritsar and killed some Nihangs and horses. Which dal apart from Baba Bidhi Dal, Harian vela Dal presented them selves there to find out what had happned. After the shaheedi of Mani Singh , Aghar Singh declared he would kill the qazi who passed sentence on Mani Singh. Did Akali Nihang 96 crore Jathedar Baba Santa Singh Jee make any such declaration on the police who shot the Nihangs? victory to the panth chatanga 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Veer Ji, Why so angry? No one is disucssing Budda dal, only a soon to be released book which may contain valuable historic information which may be insightful for those of us that are interested in our history. Vaheguru 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatehsingh Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 word! chatanga dude, chill out! being a control freak will only make u more miserable. people have their own lives and opinions. you can only control yourself, if that! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 niddar's hatred of taksal is that he did not like sant jarnail singh ji and blames them for santa singh being excommunicated. he refers to sant jarnail singh ji as bhai jarnail singh and sees him as a terrorist. no more chatting about niddars views on what he thinks can someone tell me more about the book, is it as contraversial as his talks. i say that as at one talk niddar stated that through oral history passed down by the buddha dal when baba ajit singh ji became a martyr at chamkaur he was married and his wife was expecting. this view got him kicked out of a gurdwara in leicester where he taught shastervidiya. He had no way to back this up and it raises views similar to that of the bible code i guess! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 of course niddar singh will pass on his views thru his book. He is anti bhindra mehta. But they were not to blame for Baba Jee being excommunicated. The fault of Baba Santa Singh being excommuncaited lay with Baba Jee himself. He didnt have the vision or foresight to see the repercussions, and instead treid to use it as an oppurtunity to score a point against the malesh sgpc. this backfired in big way, and it was so sad to see that the nihang singh as a whole were actually seen as sarkari. so sad. chatanga 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Im sure it is mentioned in one historical text that Baba Ajit Singh was married and he had a son named 'Hathi Singh' (I think). However, as I am not sure of where i read it and have not come across enough evidence to suggest that Baba Ajit Singh was married, i will neither argue for or against. It is not something I personally have heard from any nihang singh that i have had discources with. The differences within the Taksal and Budha dal undoubtedly started after Baba Kartar Singh became successor. Sant Baba Gurbuchan Singh had very close relations with Baba Sahib Singh (who has been praised by Baba Kartar Singh) and therefore Baba Chet Singh. Senior and elderly Nihang Singhs within the Budha Dal have said to me that when Baba Kartar Singh became jathedar he distanced himself from the Budha Dal and that he did not like. Unlike his predecessors he was not close with the jathedar of Budha Dal. I believe that the 'excommunication' of Baba Santa Singh was down to very very dirty politics being played by the people who benefited and now enjoy power (work it out) and theoretically nothing short of a joke. However, credit be given to Baba Ji for accepting a tankah for the unity of the panth. Also, a video posted by Freed Paji shows the Akal Rakht being reconstructed by Nihang Singh - not Bhaieeai from UP. Lets look at the present situation: 1. Baba Santa Singh accepted into the mainstream Sikh fold and Blabir Singh etc give up their claims, baba ji is accepted as being the jathedar of budha dal and therefore dalpanth. 2. Taksal (Baba Harnam Singh) and Budha Dal working closely together, particuarly in promotion of Sri Dasam Guru Granth Sahib. 3. Sant Jarnail Singhs return no longer an issue for the majority of people. 4. Baba Surjit Singh has been announced as the new jathedar of the Khalsa Panth. Primarily due to the joint efforts of Budha Dal and bhindra mehta, I do not think anti-mehta views from UK Nihangs or anti-nihang view from Uk Taksalis have any purpose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 With all due respect to Chatanga i do not think you know enough about Nihang Singhs to make such claims. I have met many Nihang Singhs and know of many Nihang Singhs who have fought for many noble causes. Why not visit the jails in Punjab and interview them, you will see that there is still many who are willing to give all for rightousness. See please refrain from making such bold and broadly categorising comments without having conducted decent research. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malwe Da Sher Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 I dont think the original purpose of this thread will be addressed unless someone personally asks nidar singh and then lets the sangat know. You could try emailing the webmaster of their websites. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Malwe Da sher if you ever find out about the referance for the Sahabzadas son Haathi Singh please let me know. Singh do you have any idea regarding the content and likely release date of the book by niddar singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 The book was due to be released in March 2007, but as new things are constantly being added to it its going to be delayed by another 2-3 months. Its gone from a coffee table book on Akali Nihangs to an encyclopedia on sikhism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Persian accounts of the moghals talk aboiut ajit singh . this was not sahibzada Ajit Singh, but an adopted son of Mata Sundri who was renamed Ajit Singh. He rebeled against Mata Jee and tried to set himself up as the next Guru. He was executed on Bahadur Shahs order. Some people actually think this Ajit Singh was Guru jee actual Son. but in Zafarnama states to Aurazneb " sowhat if my sons are dead? " . So we know that all 4 Sahibzadas became Shaheed before this time. chatanga 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Wow i aint heard this before. Where did you hear or read this from? Have you got any text to back it up with? I think I need to ask my Shastar Vidiya Ustad about this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Fateh to all Rupz Jee You can read about this fully in a book called "the role and status of women in sikhism" by Dr m k gill. chatanga 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simrun255 Posted February 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 does anyone have direct contact with niddar about wether his book is real y gonna be released etc, he dont even update his sites anymore 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 The book is more than real, it will be released "soon" (like the websites). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 If only his views were real. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Banda Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Chatanga Ji, can I ask a favour, when the books comes out please please please write a review 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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