Dera Sacha Sauda's Attack On Sikhism Through An Advertisemen

[Guest Javanmard]

I am not surprised and it just confirms what I have been saying about the majority of the community. Not surprised at all...

[Xylitol]

FOR SANGAT FROM BC

In light of the recent events taking place in India and Punjab, and the serious threats of violence being made against the Sikh community from the leaders of the Dera Sacha (Read: Jhootthaa) Sauda cult, there have been many meetings in the Sikh community to bring forth a resolution to this problem.

The Cult leader has been ridiculing the Sikh community and imitating the Vaisakhi Khalsa initiation ceremony, modelling himself as a self-proclaimed Guru of the new age. He has been purposefully attempting to hurt the sentiments of the Sikhs by dressing like Guru Gobind Singh ji, creating "7 Stars" as a replica of the Punj Pyare, and trying to duplicate other Sikh practices in order to gain followers. His cult's followers have become increasingly confrontational, violently attacking and injuring innocent Sikh bystanders at public protests and rallies. In response to this, a gathering of all Sikh groups at Takhat Sri Damdama Sahib yesterday denounced the cult and demanded the Punjab & Haryana governments to shut down the cult and arrest their leader within 3 days.

Due to this environment, all BC community organizations and groups of all faiths have been invited to attend a community meeting tomorrow, *FRIDAY, MAY 17* at 7pm at Gurdwara Sahib Sukh Sagar on Wood Street in New Westminster, to discuss means of resolution to this conflict and attack against the Sikh community.

-BC sikh youth.

[Guest]

FOR SANGAT FROM BC

In light of the recent events taking place in India and Punjab, and the serious threats of violence being made against the Sikh community from the leaders of the Dera Sacha (Read: Jhootthaa) Sauda cult, there have been many meetings in the Sikh community to bring forth a resolution to this problem.

The Cult leader has been ridiculing the Sikh community and imitating the Vaisakhi Khalsa initiation ceremony, modelling himself as a self-proclaimed Guru of the new age. He has been purposefully attempting to hurt the sentiments of the Sikhs by dressing like Guru Gobind Singh ji, creating "7 Stars" as a replica of the Punj Pyare, and trying to duplicate other Sikh practices in order to gain followers. His cult's followers have become increasingly confrontational, violently attacking and injuring innocent Sikh bystanders at public protests and rallies. In response to this, a gathering of all Sikh groups at Takhat Sri Damdama Sahib yesterday denounced the cult and demanded the Punjab & Haryana governments to shut down the cult and arrest their leader within 3 days.

Due to this environment, all BC community organizations and groups of all faiths have been invited to attend a community meeting tomorrow, *FRIDAY, MAY 17* at 7pm at Gurdwara Sahib Sukh Sagar on Wood Street in New Westminster, to discuss means of resolution to this conflict and attack against the Sikh community.

-BC sikh youth.

Xylitol veer ji,

not to distrupt this meeting but can you clarify this in the meeting, there is no point to add false reports of this fake dera cult leader, that would do nothing but add fuel to the fire.

Either panthic weekly were misinformed or have same old agenda, but clarify this:

QUOTE(Namstang @ May 18 2007, 11:22 PM)

I m suprised at new allegation that this baba as same nirankari cult leader try to create sat sitaare in his intiation just mock the khalsa traditions?

how true is this allegation? can anyone provided proof/sources ?

nihang jassa singh who lives in india and he followed this crisis right through wrote this:

nope he has not made any sat sitare .... actualy the whole procedure he himself said it on tv is that he use 5 chules ( dont know whats that called in english ) of his amrit to his followers and they are like 5 kasams or promises they make .... 1 on name of god 2 on name of very first avtar of god 3 on name of satguru who started dera 4 th on the name of dera and 5 th on the name of insaniyat .... no tradition of punj or sat peyare is followed

[fatehsingh]

if what Jassa Singh wrote is true then WOW! have we all been duped by the war-mongering panthic media! ...so the whole demonstration and raise of blood pressure is because the guy wore pretty clothes? LOL

Personally I don't believe Guru Gobind Singh wore clothes like that so I don't get it y ppl,. especially neo-Nihangs who claim Guru Gobind Singh wore the same uniform they do.. claim ramrahim singh is dressed like Guru Gobind Singh?

[shaheediyan]

Thats an obvious and good point Fateh Singh Ji.

I can understand people being upset about Mr Barmy imitating an amrit sanchar and having so many rape/sexual assault accusations against him, but why did people get upset at him using Sobha Singhs "fanciful" imagination as a fashion consultant?

[Guest Javanmard]

Because he attacked their sacred tribalism. I swear if Guru Nanak came back dressed as a Qalandar Sufi with his topi as he was with his Bhai Mardana these "Sikhs" would stone him to death. The overwhelming majority of Sikhs practice tribalism nothing more nothing less. They worship their collective ego dressed as Sobha Singh depictions of the Gurus.

[chatanga]

you're telling me to grow up? with all the ridiculing you've done on this site? pot calling the kettle something?

[Guest]

very going point here javanmard.

I am not sure if this chap is genuine though, i mean he already has soo many serious allegations against him- rape and murder. Either way he deserve to go to jail if evidence against him is proven.

He already clarified that his intention was pure and he was sorry, he didnt meant to hurt sentiments of sikhs. If he is really sorry and had good intention while performing intiation ceremony of his followers-

1. Why he is clarifying after 4 days of soo much commotion which cost one human life and several serious injuries? what was he doing? watching tamasha on t.v under heavy police protection?

2. Why he is copying intitation style of khalsa panth- khanda batta da amrit, it was pink color sarbat in the batta if you see the pictures?

3. Why did he dress exactly like a picture of sri guru gobind singh drawn by bhai sobha singh? he knows most of sikhs beleive in sobha singh pictures of sri guru gobind singh ji and hang them on the wall. dress is not a issue here, we trying to find out if his actions were deliberate and malicious.?

I dont normally like to quote things from panthic because of their biased journalism but despite their biased journalism, i think they made a good effort proving that this pseudo sant action was delibarate and malicious, check out the picture - http://www.panthic.org/news/125/ARTICLE/3288/2007-05-16.html

These are key issues now.

[gsingh00]

I think the main issue from the start has been how the normal person has been manipulated by the akaalis as well as congress for their political motives, and the fact that punjabis haven't (once again) been able to see through the politicians.

and does anyone which nihang dals were involved in the protest...I keep reading in newspapers 'taksal and nihangs', but which nihangs got involved?

If nothing else, I think the positive that came out of this is the fact that we now that Sikhs in India still got some pride in them...whether they are Taksali, nihangs, typical pindus or even monay, there is still some pyaar for Sikhi (even if there is a lack of gyaan) and that a bit of prachaar in punjab could probably go a long ways in helping the situation there.

lastly....I dont think we've seen the last of this situation yet...

[fatehsingh]

I'm no supporter of ramrahim singh as clarified early on... but it bothers me a great deal that in this day and age the Sikh community has shown such lack of commonsense with the way it has reacted to this issue which has been taken entirely out of context...

are we really that thick? haven't we ever seen pictures of the pro-british maharajas posted on this forum by our resident photo-man freed?

Almost all of them wear what would classify as the 'imaginary Guru Gobind Singh' in sobha singh's paintings would... with kalghi and all..

about this person making his potion in a steel utensil - Y did he use a steel batta?... I don't know.. a plastic drum would have looked less appetizing I guess?!!!

So if it is an established fact that he did not create any pyaras but merely dressed up for creating his sharbat, that too I'm assuming without reciting any banis, y does it bother anyone if he's dressing up in shiny clothes? If this is wrong because it is 'similar' to the 'imaginary Tenth Guru' then where do we set a standard? What about maharaj jarnail singh with his silver arrow patrolling darbar sahib? Would that be wrong too in today's standards? As N30 likes to say, ppl have become chamiars... that boy of Dhadrian is also hated only because he wears shiny clothes!... r we really that sick of a society? This is a far more serious question we must ask ourselves..

[guv]

In light of recent events in Panjab, there will be a rally on Saturday 19th May in Southall @ 5pm starting @ Havelock Road Gurdwara and ending @ Park Road Gurdwara in Protest AGAINST Gurmeet Ram Rahim and his supporters!!!!

What exactly is happening?

Mahaan panthic sevadar from various panthic groups will be holding a rally where many tbt goodsikhs will be shouting slogans of hatred while dressed up in balaclavas.

Why?

Some guy in India dressed up like a painting of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

A painting?

Yes.

Is that what Guru Gobind Singh Ji really looked like?

We're not sure... but probably not.

...ok... If he's in India, why are u holding a rally here?

To show our support to all the tbt goodsikhs in India standing up to him, & to raise awareness of the enemies of the panth.

Raise awareness to who?

The sangat.

Wouldn't that just give him unnecessary publicity?

No! We protested against Behzti & that didn't get any extra publicity.

Hmmm... Don't u think a mob of angry Sikhs will just scare people?

Yes... Scare them enough not to follow the fake baba! This is our seva to the panth!!

You've convinced me... I'll be there!

Make sure u bring a kirpan & a megaphone. Goodfateh!

[amardeep]

hahahha hilaroius guv i like

[Kam1825]

gurpreet in reply to your earlier question i have contacted a couple of mates today who are down in bathinda and they can confirm a load of nihangs singhs are present with Sant Harnam SIngh bhindrawalae, The nihangs ar headed by Balbir Singh due to Baba Santa SIngh being ill. also members of Sant Surjeet SIngh's nihang fraction are also there. Members from Harian Vela are also present.

From what i am seeing on the news now it seems the leader of Sacha SAuda has released a formal apology through the medis

[tSingh]

well its a bandh in punjab today. The hyderabad blasts (sadly at a mosque I visited only a few months ago - a sunni one with its believers being 'annihilated' like those communal blasts seen in Pakistan and Iraq) has deflected media attention away from punjab in the main.

I think the way they were covering the stand off at the dera that night was quite chilling. they clearly expected a massacre. Badal in an interview today stirred it up by saying that this has attacked the shaan of Guru Maharaj. They had army forces walking around the streets of certain cities yesterday. It has also just got really hot in the last week! I know this is a psychological factor in such things too.

Anyway with regard their leader, well he's never claimed to have been Sikh. He dresses like Osho, and anyone whose seen him on TV knows he changes dress almost daily into some hilarious space age type contraptions with wierd belt buckles and frilly fluffy hats, etc. The vast majority of his followers are people with haircuts and judging by their names, hindu at that. So this view that he is attacking Sikhism is unfounded since he's never said he is Sikh. He has caused great offence yes, but consistently attacking Sikhs I don't think so. As for panthic unity, I'm not sure. Taksal and I presume Harianvela (who are almost taksalis anyway) are the ones unifying. Sarabjot Singh Bedi has not been seen, Sant Samaj have not been on TV. The highlight for me was seeing an interview on the mainstream news channel at its most tense (the night the dera was seiged). Rode spoke - shouty shouty. Baba Harnam Singh spoke and I swear I started drifting off to sleep! It was like one of those really slow muffled warm ups to a 3 hour katha, no rage there. He never changes that sleepy expression. I can't work out whether thats a good or a bad sign. So I hope that he's a calming influence on all this, mainly because while there is reason for such people to protest, they should know they're getting BADLY played by Badal. Personally I think unless something involving death or brutality happens today or tomorrow, it'll die down now.

[guv]

I'm sure in Panjab, ppl will move on & in a couple of weeks noone will even remember it. In the diaspora rallies will be attended, songs will be written about beheading ram rahim & this event will become the stuff of legends... how the tbt goodsikhs protected Sikhi from the most heinous of evil baddies!

Go Team Panthic!!

[chatanga]

...ok... If he's in India, why are u holding a rally here?

To show our support to all the tbt goodsikhs in India

whats wrong wiv that? what does geography have to do wiv religion truth justice? the rest seems fine, but guv that quote above is bilge.

[chatanga]

What about maharaj jarnail singh with his silver arrow patrolling darbar sahib? Would that be wrong too in today's standards?...

Satguru Fateh Singh , the comparison between Guru Gobind Singh and Sant Jarnail Singh is stupid. Guru Jee gave his roop to the Khalsa, and expected us to wear and uphold it. Kinda what the nihang Singhs aspire to these days. So if the sikh of the Guru upholds the bana why do you have such a problem with it?

Myself, I am dressed exactly as Bhai Ram Singh as Im am now his roop, having recieved gurgaddi from him, so if i wear the namdhari whats wrong iwv that? maybe in your malicious mind its wrong.

Admin note: Chatanga your last sarcasm comment was tottaly out of order so as fateh singh comments, please if you want to debate like this within yourself just take it over the pm. !

[fatehsingh]

I think there should seriously be a requirement for members to be able to read and comprehend before joining.. or will that be considered discrimination against the mentally challenged/disabled?

[Dancing Warrior]

I think there should seriously be a requirement for members to be able to read and comprehend before joining.. or will that be considered discrimination against the mentally challenged/disabled?

[chatanga]

Admin , has Satguru Fateh Singh's sarcasm gone unnoticed? He has always ridiculed sikhs who are willing to get off their butts and make a stand for their faith. If Satguru Fateh Singh can mock, then why cant we?

I think there should seriously be a requirement for members to be able to recieve criticism and ridicule over their deep-rooted beliefs if they are prepared to criticise others over their deep-rooted beliefs...or will that be considered discrimination against the people who cant reap what they sow?

[chatanga]

[fatehsingh]

did chatanga just..... post a message to laugh at his own message?

LOL this is classic! Please Admin don't delete it! LOL

[Xylitol]

sorry N3O, read your post too late.

Meeting went fine. Decision by all that there was a need for thoughtful, nonviolent protest. Mainly via lobbying the government in large numbers (Canadian and Indian). a Sikh canadian MP, Sukh Dhaliwal, attended also saying the above.

Decision to avoid slogans etc. b/c that's the only thing the media will focus on to the detriment of all else. people were looking at the root causes of this. They said that if this fraud is dealt with, than there will be another one after him, and than another, until the root cause is dealt with.

blame on the sgpc for failing prachaar. Some people also said the major support for fraud dera's comes from overseas, many young sikhs who aren't receiving the gyan they need from Gurdwaras go to follow them. Some women spoke and said that women are the first to metha tekh to these frauds, and that prachaar of sikhi begins at home. There is, unfortunately, a radhasoami dera recently constructed on 100 acres of land somewhere in the lower mainland area - so the pakhaand is growing. everyone was clear on the need to reach out to youth. Some also said that if immigration to Canada stops, the Gurdwaras will shut down in 20 years b/c the youth are mostly going elsewhere. Some people also spoke about precision in language - eg., if you talk about shutting down all the deras and getting indian gov to ban the guy from punjab, than mention what deras you mean. Many deras are devoted to Guru ji and none ohter.

Anyway, that's just a very brief synopsis of what I remember.

[chatanga]

No , i posted a message to laugh at yours and dancing warriors message. Did you get someone else to write the above message about people who cant read or write, and it seems that you are one of those yourself.

I think there should seriously be a requirement for members to be able to read and comprehend before joining.. or will that be considered discrimination against the mentally challenged/disabled? so thats Satguru Fateh Singh out...

[Dancing Warrior]

No , i posted a message to laugh at yours and dancing warriors message. Did you get someone else to write the above message about people who cant read or write, and it seems that you are one of those yourself.