Was Bhai Mardana a Muslim?

[shaheediyan]

The intent of this this thread is not to create a new conspiracy (so please do not jump to conclusions), but simply to discuss historical sources in view of seeking to establish whether or not Bhai Mardana continued to practice as a Muslim once he became a Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

The claim that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was a Muslim and the visit to Macca and Baghdad as part of their Western Udasi, are already being discussed in numerous other threads, so kindly refrain from diverting this thread down that same trajectory, please keep Bhai Mardana as the central theme of this topic.

I personally take the Rababi lineage claim with a pinch of salt, as I do Bhai Avtaars, so if we can stick to textual historical fact (or lack of it), it would be much appreciated.

We know that Guru Sahiban had Muslim followers i.e. Sain Mian Mir, and others who wished to take Khande da Amrit i.e. Pir Buddu Shah, but what evidence is there of Bhai Mardana continuing Islamic practice upon becoming a Sikh?

[shaheediyan]

To see if anything can be derived from Bhai Mardana Ji's Bani:

ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਰਦਾਨਾ ੧ ॥

सलोकु मरदाना १ ॥

Salok marḏānā 1.

Shalok, Mardaanaa:

ਕਲਿ ਕਲਵਾਲੀ ਕਾਮੁ ਮਦੁ ਮਨੂਆ ਪੀਵਣਹਾਰੁ ॥

कलि कलवाली कामु मदु मनूआ पीवणहारु ॥

Kal kalvālī kām maḏ manū­ā pīvaṇhār.

The Dark Age of Kali Yuga is the vessel, filled with the wine of sexual desire; the mind is the drunkard.

ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਕਟੋਰੀ ਮੋਹਿ ਭਰੀ ਪੀਲਾਵਾ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ॥

क्रोध कटोरी मोहि भरी पीलावा अहंकारु ॥

Kroḏẖ katorī mohi bẖarī pīlāvā ahaʼnkār.

Anger is the cup, filled with emotional attachment, and egotism is the server.

ਮਜਲਸ ਕੂੜੇ ਲਬ ਕੀ ਪੀ ਪੀ ਹੋਇ ਖੁਆਰੁ ॥

मजलस कूड़े लब की पी पी होइ खुआरु ॥

Majlas kūṛė lab kī pī pī ho­ė kẖu­ār.

Drinking too much in the company of falsehood and greed, one is ruined.

ਕਰਣੀ ਲਾਹਣਿ ਸਤੁ ਗੁੜੁ ਸਚੁ ਸਰਾ ਕਰਿ ਸਾਰੁ ॥

करणी लाहणि सतु गुड़ु सचु सरा करि सारु ॥

Karṇī lāhaṇ saṯ guṛ sacẖ sarā kar sār.

So let good deeds be your distillery, and Truth your molasses; in this way, make the most excellent wine of Truth.

ਗੁਣ ਮੰਡੇ ਕਰਿ ਸੀਲੁ ਘਿਉ ਸਰਮੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਆਹਾਰੁ ॥

गुण मंडे करि सीलु घिउ सरमु मासु आहारु ॥

Guṇ mandė kar sīl gẖi­o saram mās āhār.

Make virtue your bread, good conduct the ghee, and modesty the meat to eat.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਖਾਧੈ ਜਾਹਿ ਬਿਕਾਰ ॥੧॥

गुरमुखि पाईऐ नानका खाधै जाहि बिकार ॥१॥

Gurmukẖ pā­ī­ai nānkā kẖāḏẖai jāhi bikār. ||1||

As Gurmukh, these are obtained, O Nanak; partaking of them, one's sins depart. ||1||

ਮਰਦਾਨਾ ੧ ॥

मरदाना १ ॥

Marḏānā 1.

Mardaanaa:

ਕਾਇਆ ਲਾਹਣਿ ਆਪੁ ਮਦੁ ਮਜਲਸ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਧਾਤੁ ॥

काइआ लाहणि आपु मदु मजलस त्रिसना धातु ॥

Kā­i­ā lāhaṇ āp maḏ majlas ṯarisnā ḏẖāṯ.

The human body is the vat, self-conceit is the wine, and desire is the company of drinking buddies.

ਮਨਸਾ ਕਟੋਰੀ ਕੂੜਿ ਭਰੀ ਪੀਲਾਏ ਜਮਕਾਲੁ ॥

मनसा कटोरी कूड़ि भरी पीलाए जमकालु ॥

Mansā katorī kūṛ bẖarī pīlā­ė jamkāl.

The cup of the mind's longing is overflowing with falsehood, and the Messenger of Death is the cup-bearer.

ਇਤੁ ਮਦਿ ਪੀਤੈ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਬਹੁਤੇ ਖਟੀਅਹਿ ਬਿਕਾਰ ॥

इतु मदि पीतै नानका बहुते खटीअहि बिकार ॥

Iṯ maḏ pīṯai nānkā bahuṯė kẖatī­ah bikār.

Drinking in this wine, O Nanak, one takes on countless sins and corruptions.

ਗਿਆਨੁ ਗੁੜੁ ਸਾਲਾਹ ਮੰਡੇ ਭਉ ਮਾਸੁ ਆਹਾਰੁ ॥

गिआनु गुड़ु सालाह मंडे भउ मासु आहारु ॥

Gi­ān guṛ sālāh mandė bẖa­o mās āhār.

So make spiritual wisdom your molasses, the Praise of God your bread, and the Fear of God the meat you eat.

ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹੁ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਸਚੁ ਹੈ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਆਧਾਰੁ ॥੨॥

नानक इहु भोजनु सचु है सचु नामु आधारु ॥२॥

Nānak ih bẖojan sacẖ hai sacẖ nām āḏẖār. ||2||

O Nanak, this is the true food; let the True Name be your only Support. ||2||

ਕਾਂਯਾਂ ਲਾਹਣਿ ਆਪੁ ਮਦੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਧਾਰ ॥

कांयां लाहणि आपु मदु अम्रित तिस की धार ॥

Kāʼnyāʼn lāhaṇ āp maḏ amriṯ ṯis kī ḏẖār.

If the human body is the vat, and self-realization is the wine, then a stream of Ambrosial Nectar is produced.

ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਸਿਉ ਮੇਲਾਪੁ ਹੋਇ ਲਿਵ ਕਟੋਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਭਰੀ ਪੀ ਪੀ ਕਟਹਿ ਬਿਕਾਰ ॥੩॥

सतसंगति सिउ मेलापु होइ लिव कटोरी अम्रित भरी पी पी कटहि बिकार ॥३॥

Saṯsangaṯ si­o mėlāp ho­ė liv katorī amriṯ bẖarī pī pī kateh bikār. ||3||

Meeting with the Society of the Saints, the cup of the Lord's Love is filled with this Ambrosial Nectar; drinking it in, one's corruptions and sins are wiped away. ||3||

ਪਉੜੀ ॥

पउड़ी ॥

Pa­oṛī.

Pauree:

ਆਪੇ ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਗਣ ਗੰਧਰਬਾ ਆਪੇ ਖਟ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥

आपे सुरि नर गण गंधरबा आपे खट दरसन की बाणी ॥

Āpė sur nar gaṇ ganḏẖarbā āpė kẖat ḏarsan kī baṇī.

He Himself is the angelic being, the heavenly herald, and the celestial singer. He Himself is the one who explains the six schools of philosophy.

ਆਪੇ ਸਿਵ ਸੰਕਰ ਮਹੇਸਾ ਆਪੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਅਕਥ ਕਹਾਣੀ ॥

आपे सिव संकर महेसा आपे गुरमुखि अकथ कहाणी ॥

Āpė siv sankar mahėsā āpė gurmukẖ akath kahāṇī.

He Himself is Shiva, Shankara and Mahaysh; He Himself is the Gurmukh, who speaks the Unspoken Speech.

ਆਪੇ ਜੋਗੀ ਆਪੇ ਭੋਗੀ ਆਪੇ ਸੰਨਿਆਸੀ ਫਿਰੈ ਬਿਬਾਣੀ ॥

आपे जोगी आपे भोगी आपे संनिआसी फिरै बिबाणी ॥

Āpė jogī āpė bẖogī āpė sani­āsī firai bibāṇī.

He Himself is the Yogi, He Himself is the Sensual Enjoyer, and He Himself is the Sannyaasee, wandering through the wilderness.

ਆਪੈ ਨਾਲਿ ਗੋਸਟਿ ਆਪਿ ਉਪਦੇਸੈ ਆਪੇ ਸੁਘੜੁ ਸਰੂਪੁ ਸਿਆਣੀ ॥

आपै नालि गोसटि आपि उपदेसै आपे सुघड़ु सरूपु सिआणी ॥

Āpai nāl gosat āp upḏėsai āpė sugẖaṛ sarūp si­āṇī.

He discusses with Himself, and He teaches Himself; He Himself is discrete, graceful and wise.

ਆਪਣਾ ਚੋਜੁ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਆਪੇ ਆਪੇ ਸਭਨਾ ਜੀਆ ਕਾ ਹੈ ਜਾਣੀ ॥੧੨॥

आपणा चोजु करि वेखै आपे आपे सभना जीआ का है जाणी ॥१२॥

Āpṇā cẖoj kar vėkẖai āpė āpė sabẖnā jī­ā kā hai jāṇī. ||12||

Staging His own play, He Himself watches it; He Himself is the Knower of all beings. ||12||

[Guest Javanmard]

This is exactly why I cannot live with you people... pure revisionism. As Naipaul said, the Sikh really are the Jews of India. You people don't refrain from any possible lie and blasphemy against God's prophets to justify your tribalism just as Jews do.

May Allah guide the pure hearted Sikhs out of these lies!

Khoda Negahdar!

[Kam1825]

Javanmard all you had to do was reply in a manner to prove the skeptics wrong which would not have been hard in whichever way you wanted. Just as a well versed scholar would have to make sure the discussion did not need to go any further.

However you have shown your tribalism!! You are happy to insult the Sikhs, the Jews, wish all Sunnis were killed!! My My what a great scholarly view, what worries me is that at one point you said you had the same status as a Sant. All i am seeing in you is emnity and ego.

Javanmard you are the one being tribal, why cant you be a bit less egotistical and respectful in your answers as you do on shiachat.com?

Dont worry i know by posting this you will start up again with an insult either on a thread or a private message!

[Guest Javanmard]

don't worry Kam1825. I am it going to continue this pointless argument. Me? a Sant? you're joking. I never use that title for myself my dear!

It's you people who drew first blood not me!

[shaheediyan]

Javanmard Ji,

"This is exactly why I cannot live with you people... pure revisionism. As Naipaul said, the Sikh really are the Jews of India. You people don't refrain from any possible lie and blasphemy against God's prophets to justify your tribalism just as Jews do."

A few points if I may:

1 - Read the opening line of my post. And while your at it, look up the meaning of Academia, your words do not reflect the thoughts of an "Academic".

2 - Talking about revisionsim, what do you do you think your Shia'te to Sikhi and Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Muslim theories are?

3 - I learn a lot from; and am inspired by your efforts to learn and live Sikhi, but your attitude towards non-Shia'te groups stinks, especially as you regularly state " I have nothing against such and such"...

Before stereo-typing and defaming your latest targets, the Jews (and I say this out of frustration at your hypocrisy, not for any other reason), I would consider the actions of your fellow countrymen a few hundred years, and how you should in turn not invite Portugese stereo-types.

Until the recent discussions, yo were stating "Sikhi" was an offshoot of Shia'te Islam, now you have toned it down to Guru Nanak Dev Ji is Muslim but not his 9 other forms, completely ignoring the jagdi jyot concept.

Your theories and your persona are in a muddle, I do not question your vast knowledge base, but neither your speech, mannerisms, communication, humulity, compassion, God-sight (seeing God in all) nor theories.... show any sign of light - spiritual or scholarly.

Like I said, you seem to be stuck in a rut. It takes a "Mard" to put truth and humulity before pride and social status... if not now, I assure, you will encounter difficult times my friend, the conscience is not one to sleep.

Thanks for ruining this genuine thread, which I sincerely hoped you would have been able to contribute to in an adult and civilised manner and help enlighten me and others in doing so. I told yo not to jump to conclusions, you really have no idea what the real purpose of this thread was.

Thanks.

[shaheediyan]

Javanmard Ji,

"This is exactly why I cannot live with you people... pure revisionism. As Naipaul said, the Sikh really are the Jews of India. You people don't refrain from any possible lie and blasphemy against God's prophets to justify your tribalism just as Jews do."

A few points if I may:

1 - Read the opening line of my post. And while your at it, look up the meaning of Academia, your words do not reflect the thoughts of an "Academic".

2 - Talking about revisionsim, what do you do you think your Shia'te to Sikhi and Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Muslim theories are?

3 - I learn a lot from; and am inspired by your efforts to learn and live Sikhi, but your attitude towards non-Shia'te groups stinks, especially as you regularly state " I have nothing against such and such"...

Before stereo-typing and defaming your latest targets, the Jews (and I say this out of frustration at your hypocrisy, not for any other reason), I would consider the actions of your fellow countrymen a few hundred years, and how you should in turn not invite Portugese stereo-types.

Until the recent discussions, yo were stating "Sikhi" was an offshoot of Shia'te Islam, now you have toned it down to Guru Nanak Dev Ji is Muslim but not his 9 other forms, completely ignoring the jagdi jyot concept.

Your theories and your persona are in a muddle, I do not question your vast knowledge base, but neither your speech, mannerisms, communication, humulity, compassion, God-sight (seeing God in all) nor theories.... show any sign of light - spiritual or scholarly.

Like I said, you seem to be stuck in a rut. It takes a "Mard" to put truth and humulity before pride and social status... if not now, I assure, you will encounter difficult times my friend, the conscience is not one to sleep.

Thanks for ruining this genuine thread, which I sincerely hoped you would have been able to contribute to in an adult and civilised manner and help enlighten me and others in doing so. I told yo not to jump to conclusions, you really have no idea what the real purpose of this thread was.

Thanks.

[Guest Javanmard]

you're welcome. Looks like you don't get what I am saying either by the sheer charicature of my statements so let's leave it at that. Khoda Hafez!

[Guest]

guys, please stick to the orginal topic and discuss the orginal topic as requested by the author of this thread, any off-topics will be deleted.

[Xylitol]

look in bhai Gurdass dian Vaaran and see if his name is written down as a Sikh of Guru Nanak. Also, check to see if Saint Mian Mir's name is written down as a Sikh of one of the Gurus... I bet one's name will be written there, and another won't....