Not sure if this was said...

[amardeep]

people people please kiss my ass as a sign of mutual love

[shaheediyan]

"Have you yourself been the victim of Islamic violence?"

With all due respect, what stupid response.

I suppose I would have to also be a victim of Anti-Semetic violence to understand the hell the Jews went through during Stalins, Hitlers and the "Latino" wonder years! If you can understand that, you will understand that your "I was a victim of Sikh exclusivity" dribble is pants.

That is unless of course you are now going to rubbish all the history that records the tyranny of the Mughal/Afghan rule (at certain periods).

"Why don't you also blame kurimar on Europe?"

Yaaaaaaaawn. No one is implying Europe is the cause of all evil, I was simply adding to your comments re castism and it's re-emergence, stop being so paranoid (I know thats a tall order).

"5."If we understand and respect the institution of Khande de Pahul, Baba Deep Singh Ji was a Singh of the Khalsa, pure and simple, all tribal/caste roots were annihilated upon partaking amrit."

BULLSHIT!!! Open ANY Panjabi newspaper and look at the matrimonial adds! I mean you really want me to swallow the big lie that you guys don't care about caste. That is the most laughable thing I have heard recently."

What are you on brother, the comment was simply talking about Baba Deep Singh Ji, not to what is commonly refered to as "the panth".

To give comparison, I could look at the terrorism inclined fanatical and pig brained portions of the Muslim world and paint all Muslims with the same paint brush, but that is where you and me differ.

I won't even stereotype all Iranians as supporters of murderers in Iraq, as I know some really nice Persians, nearly all of whom are atheists due to their treatment in Iran from religious fanatics.

Again no need to jump the gun, I'm not saying all Iranians are misguided religious fanatics or atheists, just making a point.

[Beetlejuice]

Javanmard you say and I quote:

'Jatts in general just think that Sikhi belongs to them as some God given right to the point of excluding everyone else'

Dont many Muslims also do this? Saying God is only with them, they are better than the others, the Quran is the only way of God etc etc ?

[amardeep]

"My country is better than yours.. if you dont belive me, you'r an asshole"...

what a lame debate... who cares whether Iran is better than india or vice versa....

get a life people!

[shaheediyan]

"3. Well I only consider Shi'as to be Muslims and I don't remember shi'as having gangs"

Jaish al Mahdi.

No tribe is perfect.

[singho]

The prejudice against Muslims and Hindus by Jatt Sikh supremacists whose one and only motive is the acquisition of land is indefensible, and even worse when attempts are made to enshrine it in 'religion' such as by this alleged 'tradition' and by many more recent ones. Only the most vile, base, ignoble people would seek to defend or justify such.

[Guest Javanmard]

shaheediyan:

"3. Well I only consider Shi'as to be Muslims and I don't remember shi'as having gangs"

Jaish al Mahdi.

No tribe is perfect.

Themselves using the title Shi'a doesn't mean they are really Shi'a. What I mean by Shi'a is something very very precise which has been defined by the Imams themselves namely the loyalty to the pact before creation. In any case it is forbidden to use the title of the Mahdi for such an organisation as Maula clearly said that his only real army are the khulsah who will come with him at the end of time. If you want to keep unemerating the list of fake Shi'as please go, you'

re wasting your time.

Beetlejuice:

Javanmard you say and I quote:

'Jatts in general just think that Sikhi belongs to them as some God given right to the point of excluding everyone else'

Dont many Muslims also do this? Saying God is only with them, they are better than the others, the Quran is the only way of God etc etc ?

The people you talk about as the same as your people, ahl e amm, people of the herd. I do not concern myself with these people. As far as I am concerned they are not my brothers in faith.

shaheediyan:

I won't even stereotype all Iranians as supporters of murderers in Iraq, as I know some really nice Persians, nearly all of whom are atheists due to their treatment in Iran from religious fanatics.

You obviously don't know real Iranians. Visit Iran meet Iranians real Iranians and then we can talk about "nice Persians" again. Btw the correct word is Iranian NOT Persian ok?

You see the difference between real Iranians and these guys you call nice is that real Iranians stay in the country to take religiob back from these fanatics which is theage old attitude of spiritual chivalry that Iran is known for. I know people who have been through much worse than your friends they stayed in Iran and haven't become atheists. So please don't pretend you know Iranians.

Singho:

The prejudice against Muslims and Hindus by Jatt Sikh supremacists whose one and only motive is the acquisition of land is indefensible, and even worse when attempts are made to enshrine it in 'religion' such as by this alleged 'tradition' and by many more recent ones. Only the most vile, base, ignoble people would seek to defend or justify such.

The voice of reason at last!!!!

[chatanga]

JM , plz elaborate more on Baba Deep Singh's background.

[shaheediyan]

"real Iranians", what does that mean? What defines an Iranian - it's simply a boundery shared with a number of countries - which historically shares the cultures and sects of it's neighbours.

If you are talking about "real Shia" fair enough, I would agree with you.

"Themselves using the title Shi'a doesn't mean they are really Shi'a. What I mean by Shi'a is something very very precise which has been defined by the Imams themselves namely the loyalty to the pact before creation. In any case it is forbidden to use the title of the Mahdi for such an organisation as Maula clearly said that his only real army are the khulsah who will come with him at the end of time. If you want to keep unemerating the list of fake Shi'as please go, you'

re wasting your time."

Thanks, thats a perfect example of your engrained double standards character.

It's fine for you to meet a few so called "Sikhs" and re-define and judge the whole populace including those you speak with on this forum, but if someone gives you "one" example of filthy minded Shias, then exact definitions come out (which are actually not so precise as they refer to a number of different sects that you see as holding true different parts of the original tradition).

I'm not behnsing with you, simply asking you to treat others as you would have yourself treated. That means treating people on an individual level and not grouping them. If you have had a bad experience with so called Sikhs then be a man and take up your issues with them in person, rather than taking out your historic frustrations on us (with all due respect).

It would be nice if you could respond politely to genuinely polite reponses to your posts i.e. what is the source of the Shaheedi Misl being largely Muslim - and the anti-tarkhan slurs in rehitname.

A true Ustaad is a teacher to all... and anyone who asks a question, irrelevant of their "apparent" background.

[Matheen]

Maula clearly said that his only real army are the khulsah who will come with him at the end of time.

JM - are these the same as 96 crore khalsa gupt fauj?

also, do shias have the same view of 'heaven' as other muslims?

[Mehtab Singh]

It's fine for you to meet a few so called "Sikhs" and re-define and judge the whole populace including those you speak with on this forum, but if someone gives you "one" example of filthy minded Shias, then exact definitions come out (which are actually not so precise as they refer to a number of different sects that you see as holding true different parts of the original tradition).

I'm not behnsing with you, simply asking you not to treat others as you would have yourself treated. That means treating people on an individual level and not grouping them. If you have had a bad experience with so called Sikhs then be a man and take up your issues with them in person, rather than taking out your historic frustrations on us (with all due respect).

It would be nice if you could respond politely to genuinely polite reponses to your posts i.e. what is the source of the Shaheedi Misl being largely Muslim - and the anti-tarkhan slurs in rehitname.

A true Ustaad is a teacher to all... and anyone who asks a question, irrelevant of their "apparent" background.

Couldn't have said it better

[Guest Javanmard]

Look guys stop winging like stupid schoolgirls. You had me in the UK for 4 years. YOUR gurdware refused to allow me to give katha, YOUR youth organisations banned me from speaking at any programme, YOUR community organisations even managed to prevent me from speaking at the BBC, YOUR youth organisation refused me access to play kirtan because I played sitar and all of that whilst I was teaching Indian religions at SOAS for three years and Panjabi, the most prestigious university for Oriental studies.

It isn't just a "FEW" people who were against me it is your representatives to whom you give money who have done everything they could to prevent me to teach the younger generation. YOU allowed these people to do this. NONE of you has defended me when it came to the crunch so what should I think of this community?

I was ready to teach people for free out of love for Maharaj YOU as a community refused.

I have learnt my lesson, the gates of my kindness were open, YOU closed it, don't expect me to feel guilty. YOUR community has a big huge attitude problem.

Just a quick story:

I once was asked by some ladies to give a lecture on Sikhi and women and how Sikhi provides for the recognition of women as a full independent person. Guess what happened?

Banned!

Another time I gave a katha in English on the meaning of Baisakhi. I was cut half way through and asked to stop: the sangat who lived in London for 30 years wanted to hear Panjabi sakhian.

And then they complain: Joo know our kids know notting about the Sikhism!

Well I don't care anymore. I think I have been patient enough. Let's not even mention the death threats etc...

No Shaheediyan it wasn't just a FEW Sikhs I met. I lived with YOUR community was even engaged with a Panjabi girl for 6 years (again that had to end up as well). I know YOUR community inside out so dont bullshit me about mejust meeting a few wrong people.

And you wonder why I prefer Iranians...