Matheen Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Fateh! My dhara has grown somewhat and ends up becoming a liabilty when practising grappling or wrestling. I know many Singhs do some martial art or the other / shaster vidiya etc - what do you lot do? Also, is there a way to do the jura so it doesn't open? - I tried many styles of dastar but they all come off at some stage. Show me the light Matheen 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 i wear a Bandana/Rumaal with loose hair underneath it... then i tighthen the rumaal so that my kesh does not come out.. it helps 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted September 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Thanks for the idea, i'll try it for sure. What about the dhara? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 How is your dhara a liability - do you mean in terms of it getting grabbed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted September 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Liabilty may have been the wrong word, just that the dhara takes a battering sometimes depending on who I'm training with - ironically, it's the Singhs who don't think twice about pulling! the others are a bit more respectful..... The reason I ask is that I know Singhs have been training in wrestling for centuries, so there must be a way the old warriors tied their kesh and dastar to make them more secure - a dumalla comes off just as easily as other styles when sparring hard btw. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Wear your dhumalla. When it comes off, try and keep sparring for as long as you can - this is a "real" and necessary element of training, as if your dhumalla came off in a real fight, and you didn't know how to - or didn't have the confidence to - continue.. you would be finished. Keep a large patka with you - one with strings attached is good. When that spar is over - re-do your jura and keski, and tie the patka on tight, a patka seldom comes off when wrestling. Then tie you dhumalla when the class has finished. Re dhara, you need to learn techniques to protect it, there are many. You can trap, bend/snap fingers off those who grab, you can strike at a number of pressure points i.e. under the armpit, on the biceps, pinch under the tricep, attack genitals, poke eyes, grab the wrist (to stop dhara being pulled) and strike inside of elbow etc. More importantly get into a habit of having one hand near the face to ward off face/dara attacks. Re tying dhumalla, beneath your dhumalla, wing your kesh around a keski kapda, tie a knot in it and tie jura, leave around 1.5 - 2 metres on the other end. Once jura is tied, wrap the rest of the keski around your jura tight and also around your head a few times if you desire. When a Singhs dhumalla comes off, they can usually continue comfortably with their keski tied in teh jura quite comfortably, personally I prefer to tie a patka on top of the jura/keski, as this makes it tight, and I can usually carry on for a few hours without hastle. Hope that helps somewhat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted September 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Cheers Shaeediyan - I'll try out these techniques for sure! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singho Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 What about using the dhumalla as a weapon, to strangle the opponent? Is this allowed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsingh00 Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 a good dumalla wont come off. If you wrap your kes in a keski and do it in a tight joora so it is on the on the 'fronter' portion of your head, and then do another dastaar over the top, it shouldnt come off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 a good dumalla wont come off. If you wrap your kes in a keski and do it in a tight joora so it is on the on the 'fronter' portion of your head, and then do another dastaar over the top, it shouldnt come off. can you give me dumalla lessons please? i ll buy you ice cream 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 When someone attacks you or grabs you, they offer you a multiple of options to counter, in a grab there are openings which the opponent gives you, arms are prone to breaking, small joint manipulations, pressure point strikes etc. When someone punches they give you openings and they offer a momentum which can be manipulated, in the same way if you can read these openings, even to the point where you anticipate by baiting various parts of your own self you can counter with ease. If soemone does grab your dhara, then you dont pull against it cos it will only help them, move with their momentum and direction of pull to reduce the tension in the grab, move closer to them, drop your chin on your chest, and disable their ability to get a pull on your dhara by trapping methods, if they have a grab on it allows you to manipulate their arms, they have one hand which is nullefied because it isnt affecting you seriously, strike in their vunerable pressure points, chest area, sides, groin (whatever is available), lift their arm up from the elbow, and use marma pinches etc. If you can prevent the grab in the first place then that is the best option, but that cannot be taught over a forum. The dhara is not a hindrance to the Khalsa, if it was, then the Guru wouldnt prescribe the keeping of Kesh. The dhara is an advantage in fighting for many reasons. If someone knocks off your dastar, then you make them pay for it, never stop in a fight to worry about your dastar if it has come off, you keep going. Make sure your dastar is sturdy in stand up, but if someone pulls it it comes off and doesnt get in your way, the last thing you want is your dummala hanging off your head sideways, or the kapra wrapping around your face/eyes and around your neck. The key to it is stay relaxed, dont use strength and focus purely on body mechanics and technique, any grab and technique can be countered so think through it technically and figure your way out. Above all, it takes mental practise aswell as physical practise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 What about using the dhumalla as a weapon, to strangle the opponent? Is this allowed? You wouldnt take off your dumala especially to strangle someone, the main strangling weapon is called a "pash" which is made of leather. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singho Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 OK thanks for that Maha Singh. Thuggee business LOL On the dhara front, I saw a Billy Connolly show once when he said that in his many pub fights, his opponent would usually try to punch him out on the chin but miss, because of his long beard (they were fooled by his beard into thinking his jaw was a lot more protruding than it was). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 Hopefully, when the Shastar Vidya website comes back, it will still have some videos of sparring in various pentras, to give some necessary visual aid to demonstrate Maha Singhs excellently explained points. "What about using the dhumalla as a weapon, to strangle the opponent? Is this allowed?" I think the dhumalla can make a lethal and deadly weapon if you are empty handed and facing opponents with weapons. I would recommend learning the sarong fighting techniques which are used to high level in Silat to counter knifes, swords, sticks etc. They are highly effective and can easily be used with a dhumalla or keski. I don't feel their is a problem in using dhumalla as a shastar, in combat - everything goes! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 Personally, I dont see the need to take off your dumala so you can protect yourself against attacks, when you have your kareh, sri sahib, the dumala itself to parry strikes, kamarkasa shastar, teer mukhiya, advanced penthreh etc No person who does weapons based arts should be empty handed at any point, and if you dont do weapons arts then going against soemone with a sword or knife is pure suicide. The best defence there would be to run. Only in the most dire situation when everything has been lost would you consider doing something like taking off your dumala for some defence at the cost of unprotecting the most important part of your body, the head. Even then before then you can still take off your kamarkasa to do exactly the same thing, this would be easier as its shorter then your dummala. If you really wanna do the silat style defence, the mirror style in SV is Baank Vidiya, the use of a rumala or cloth to catch the hands of the opponent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 double post - please delete 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 Excellent points veer ji, I agree. Alternatively, for those who don't wear kamarkasai all the time, the leather belt can also be very effective. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurnit_Singh Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 A couple of singhs do brasillian jiu jitsu with me and they wear a patka with wrestling earguards. It holds the patka in place. I'm still trying to find one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsingh00 Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 can you give me dumalla lessons please? i ll buy you ice cream yeah, no problem...either i'll make a video of someone doing a dumalla and send you it, or I'll teach you in person one day. Just remind me if I forget. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsingh00 Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 there are singhs whose lives were saved in car accidents because their dumalla didn't come off their head, so I assure you that you can wrestle and not have to worry about your dumalla. The whiplash in a bad accident is more force then a wrestler could assert. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted September 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 gsingh00 - it's not about force - get someone to hold you in a headlock and try to slide out your head; or a guillotine choke; or a neck crank etc. Gurnit singh - where do u live? I can't find many singhs to roll with..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurnit_Singh Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 gsingh00 - it's not about force - get someone to hold you in a headlock and try to slide out your head; or a guillotine choke; or a neck crank etc. Gurnit singh - where do u live? I can't find many singhs to roll with..... Mississauga, Ontario, Canada. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted September 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Mississauga, Ontario, Canada. other side of the world..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest do commando patka Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 command o 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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