Kuttabanda2

"Show me. Your mindset is emblematic of what my post is about. You're an Abrahamic and don't even know it. You believe in the idea of a separate 'god' floating about and meddling in day to day affairs of people with only a loose appreciation of the possibility of one-ness."

Your're misusing the word Abrahamic, yeah there is a trait that we've borrowed from the Abrahamic faiths due to Adaption, translating our texts, influence and adoption of western philosophy, precepts, universal methods of thinking, and Theos, but that doesn't make anyone "Abrahamic".

Some of the people on this site need to stop stamping Singh Sabha school of thought as Protestant, Catholic, Islamic, Christian, Abrahamic, Semetic, etc. because it's stupid and openly displays one's ignorance and lack of importance towards words and their definitions.

I have been close to DDT too, my own relative is a known DDT kathavachak but I won't disclose personal information here on online forums.

While there is a beautiful side of kurbani and knowledge to Taksal there is the other side where there are talks of sodomy of students, RSS nexus, honoring KPS Gill, lying in sangat for decades (i.e. baba Thakur Singh about Baba Jarnail Singh Ji) and what not.

Just to increase their points amongst sangat they recount fairy tales, one more than the other.

Anyways, my point is simply that Taksal has no proof of direct lineage from Guru Ji (guru did start sikh schools, but there is no proof of this exact lineage anywhere) and its chiefs were Sikhs who may have had good intentions but were not infallible. They made mistakes like all humans do.

You are aware that Baba Thakur Singh Jee did in fact believe Sant Jee was alive? Don't you? Or are you ignoring that fact and trying to make him look as if he lied to Sangat?

Baba Thakur Singh was in a poor state of mental health when he took charge of DamDami Taksal. By the early 90s many agents had already entered Taksal, unknown to Baba Jee.

Baba Thakur Singh Jee was told by 5 Singhs that Sant Jee was alive and so he took it as that.

Baba Thakur Singh was manipulated due to his old age, which was quite evident to those who have seen it with first hand accounts. A Singh from Akhand Kirtani Jatha went to Mehta in the 90s and from the looks of it, "he seemed to have been in the very early stages of Alzheimer's. Additionally, Baba Jee was huddled by many men who even spoke for him and put words into his mouth." He noted furthermore that a close companion from the Taksal had warned of many agents infiltrating the Taksal.

Baba Jee didn't lie, he was lied to, he didn't have any reason to lie about Sant Ji's Shaheedi.

Furthermore, Sodomy began when Dhumma took charge of the Bhindra Mehta faction, this same group uses and spreads drugs/intoxicants, edited and changed DDT's books, and is at the feet of the government.

I find it interesting how you like to imply that DDT

has RSS connections and ties with Anti-panthic elements, to that, Sikhkhoj, I'd like to give you a reality check. It's 2015, the whole entire Panth is infested by the RSS. If you think DDT is the only organization that is in cahoots with Panth Dhokis then you must be terribly ignorant or just targeting Taksal and picking out any fault you possibly can.

Nanaksar, AKJ (Panchainees), DDT, SGPC, Nihang Dals, Hazooris, Singh Sabha, Nirmalas, all are dancing to the tunes of the RSS or another organization. It's purely stupid and ignorant for you to just target Taksal and act as if they're the retarded child of Panth. The whole Panth is in a bad shape, it's just plain pathetic for you to just pick out the faults in Taksal and ignore all other sects.

You state that they are humans and make mistakes yet you defame them and claim that they are liars for simply believing and preaching concepts or stories that they were taught at an early age.

People like you can justify anything. fact is that there is no metaphor in the Daya Singh Rehatnama it clearly says

'tab devi pargat hoe' - then the Goddess appeared. it goes on to say that Ik Oankar mantar was given by Guru Nanak, Sarbloh Knife by Kaal, Kach by Hanuman.

Now people like you will say 'Guru Nanak' who gave Ik Oankar mantar was a metaphor too? Either Nanak is the physical person (or Jot) just like all other Hindu Devi Devte who gave something to the Amrit Sanchar ceremony or they're all metaphors which doesn't make sense

If there are allegories in the Daya Singh Rehatnama or not, that's debatable, but you can't claim it's a "fact" that there aren't.

'Devi' can be seen as the the Aad-Shakti, Daya Singh's Rehatnama has gone through pollution, I can agree on that, but the metaphor of Kaal giving a Sarbloh Kirpan, Hanuman giving a Kacherra, Devi pargat, Etc. was present outside of this Rehatnama and Gyani Gurbachan Singh Jee's writings, such as the Das Gur Katha.

I'm not saying I believe in the Devi being present at the first Amrit Sanchar, or that the Devtas gave Kakkars literally, but I'm saying the whole concept of such an event is a metaphor.

In regards to Kala Afghana, Inder Ghagga, Darshan Lal, Dhunda, etc. though some of their points in regards to Dera-Vaad are valid and important, these buffoons aren't so pure themselves.

Not so long ago, Shivteg (ironic, isn't it? Name's Shivteg, and a missionary?) Sinh was caught with a Dhaddi Bibi.

And Kala Afghana is rumored to have harassed a bibi.

The Tapobani Singhs know a lot about these Dhurmat Professors and Gyanis, and even countered them.

These people are the same people have twisted the meanings and words of Gurbani themselves yet accuse others of doing it.

They wrongly say that Charitar means 'wiles' when it in fact means 'Character', thus making Charitropakhyan's meaning to be the "The wiles of women". Pulling a tukk from Dasam Patshah Ki Granth and twisting it whilst pushing other tukks under the carpet to suit their agenda.

How can you ever contextualize physical women seeing physical men as God... but not the other way around... when the meaning as shown (when you read th efull shabad) is clearly talking about the soul bride concept... its speaking to everyone souls which are all female, and our relationship to Waheguru Ji which is the only actual male in Gurbani.

DDT have obviously used it (switching the Husband-Lord backwards) as a means to denegrate women to having to acknowledge *human physical* men as God while they see themselves as lower. Paapiman is a good example of how Sikh youth are taking this and using it as justification to tell Gursikh females they should show *uttmost respect* (his words) to Gursikh males. While stating straight out that there is no instruction for Gursikh males to do the same in return. This creates a serious imbalance of authority and power and creates the scenario which leads to domestic violence towards women (like it or not) the attitude is the beginning. Being taught all their lives that the are entitled to being waited on hand and foot by women, and treated as a God by them, then it becomes a means to 'punish' them if they don't live uyp to that expectation thats now placed on them. Sikh wives have become nothing more than a live in servant thanks to DDT (and similar). When marriage is supposed to be an equal partnership of love and sharing and giving both ways. Instead the way DDT teaches it, the woman is always beneath the man, feeling lower in status, expected to be servile, expected to see him as high above her as God while she is lowly. What kind of loving marriage could that ever be? There is NO context for this unless you acknowledge that women are devalued in Sikhi and are seen to be only existing for men's pleasure. This goes against what is written in the rest of SGGSJ.

I don't reject ALL of DDT teaching. Just how they see women. Rest is fine. And yes, I believe that the sexism stemmed from cultural / tribal influence at the time. Trouble is, nobody will acknowledge that - they say it's how things are supposed to be and that's how Guru Ji wanted it. Seriously??

For God's sake, when you DDT you are aware that DDT itself has many sects? That disagree with each other on quite a lot of stuff!

The GRM isn't even authored by Gyani Gurbachan Singh Jee, yes he believed in and preached some stuff that we might disagree with, but it doesn't mean he's lying, he preached what he was taught by his predecessors and teachers, but alas, Sikhkhoj nu ta aag hi lag jandi aa jado koi Gyani di Sifat Kare.

DDT Ajnala

DDT Bhindra Mehta

DDT Sangrawan

DDT Bhindra

"Solo" Taksalis

Outcast/Ostracized Taksalis

These are just a few divisions within the Taksal, and they are all not the same! I'm not sure if all accept the GRM as it is.

Additionally, like I said before, the Gurmat Paath Darpan itself has gone through some editing as some have claimed, either made more Singh Sabha oriented or more Snaatanized.

Just stop generalizing. Geez.

Sikhkhoj,

Again, it's an allegory, if you can't comprehend it, then that's on you. The Devi-Devtas represent certain qualities which the Khalsa must instill within themselves.

http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,3347

The Singh on this forum has answered the question of Hanuman giving a Kacherra to the Khalsa quite well, In the Bhai Daya Singh Rehatnama.

If you can't get a grip on them, that's your problem. With the mindset you have in regards to Daya Singh's Rehatnama, I wouldn't be surprised if you doubted the first Charitar of Charitaropakhyan, since it's metaphors run along the same lines.

Yea sure you can justify everything that Baba Gurbachan says the same way some Muslims justify beheadings. Yea metaphors right, just like Daya singh rehatnama CLEARLY saying Hindu devi devte came and gave kakkars to Guru Gobind Singh. Thats metaphors too lol

If I prove one point wrong of Gurbachan its enough to prove that he was not infallible and thus made more mistakes. Why did Taksal and Gurbachan Singh say that reciting Gurbani while walking is bad and even invented sakhis to justify his point? Why did he contradict gurbani? Why did he indirectly attack the concept of Nagar Kirtans?

Be honest, would you guys stay still if the same allegations had been made by a missionary? Its so funny to see these double standards.

I personally don't agree with everything Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Jee said, but I still find him to be a good personality.

He didn't invent Sakhis either, they were passed down from one Gyani to another, you have no basis to call him a liar when he himself had firm belief in those stories and concepts.

- Refer to the Shabad which says reciting Bani while walking is forbidden?

- Name historical sources of Guru Har Rai having 8 wives?

- Bhagats were out of janam maran, it makes no sense to come back again. Your Gurbachan Singh says that Daya Singh was a reincarnation of Lav (Ramchandars son)? And he only names 3 Bhagats who came back? There is no source for such spurious claims, its as credible as Inder Singh Ghagga claiming Guru Nanak Sahib ate halal meat in Mecca.

For your third point, I already told you to go read "Att Khalsa Mool Mantar".

It's sad to see how Uighur Turks are losing their own homeland similar to Inner Mongolians to the Chinese. Slowly Destroying all of it's rich Culture.

In regards to idol worship, Devi-Devtas, Avtars, Karam Khand, etc.

this is what Gurbani has to say:

ਦੇਵੀ-ਦੇਵਤੇ, ਕਰਮ ਕਾਂਡ, ਹਿੰਦੂ ਮਤਿ, ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣਵਾਦ-ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਤੇ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ:

ਜੁਗਹ ਜੁਗਹ ਕੇ ਰਾਜੇ ਕੀਏ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਕਰਿ ਅਵਤਾਰੀ ॥

ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਕਿਆ ਕਰਿ ਆਖਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੀ ॥੭॥ -ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ

ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕਤੇਬ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਲ ਥਕੇ ਕਿਛੁ ਹਾਥ ਨ ਆਇਉ॥-ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਥਾ, ਹਾਜ਼ੂਰੀ ਭਾਈ ਜੀਵਨ (ਭਾਈ ਜੈਯਤਾ) ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ

ਅਨਕ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਾ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਮਹੇਸ਼ਨੰ

ਅਨਕ ਦੇਵੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਵੈਸ਼ਨੰ॥

ਅਨਕ ਰਾਮ ਕਿਸ਼ਨ ਅਵਤਾਰਨੰ

ਅਨਕ ਨਰਸਿੰਘ ਹਰਨਾਕਸ਼ ਮਾਰਨੰ॥-ਜੋਤਿ ਬਿਗਾਸ (ਮੂਲ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ) ਭਈ ਨੰਦ ਲਾਲ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ

ਸੋ ਮੁਖੁ ਜਲਉ ਜਿਤੁ ਕਹਹਿ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਜੋਨੀ ॥੩॥

ਜਨਮਿ ਨ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥

ਨਾਨਕ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਰਹਿਓ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੪॥੧॥ -ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਹੋਰਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਰਵਾਲ ॥

ਕੇਤੀਆ ਕਨ੍ਹਹ ਕਹਾਣੀਆ ਕੇਤੇ ਬੇਦ ਬੀਚਾਰ ॥ -ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ

ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਦਾ ਸਲਾਮਤਿ ਕਹਿ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਕੋਊ ਤੂ ਕਦ ਕਾ ॥

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਸਿਰੇ ਤੈ ਅਗਨਤ ਤਿਨ ਕਉ ਮੋਹੁ ਭਯਾ ਮਨ ਮਦ ਕਾ ॥-ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ

ਏਕਾ ਮਾਈ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਵਿਆਈ ਤਿਨਿ ਚੇਲੇ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥

ਇਕੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੀ ਇਕੁ ਭੰਡਾਰੀ ਇਕੁ ਲਾਏ ਦੀਬਾਣੁ ॥

ਜਿਵ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਵੈ ਚਲਾਵੈ ਜਿਵ ਹੋਵੈ ਫੁਰਮਾਣੁ ॥-ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ

ਜਿਸੁ ਨਾਮੈ ਕਉ ਤਰਸਹਿ ਬਹੁ ਦੇਵਾ ॥

ਸਗਲ ਭਗਤ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਕਰਦੇ ਸੇਵਾ ॥

ਅਨਾਥਾ ਨਾਥੁ ਦੀਨ ਦੁਖ ਭੰਜਨੁ ਸੋ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਤੇ ਪਾਇਣਾ ॥੩॥-ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਿਧ ਮੁਨਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰਾ ਭਗਤਿ ਦਾਨੁ ਜਸੁ ਮੰਗੀ ॥੧॥-ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ

ਆਖਹਿ ਵੇਦ ਪਾਠ ਪੁਰਾਣ ॥

ਆਖਹਿ ਪੜੇ ਕਰਹਿ ਵਖਿਆਣ ॥

ਆਖਹਿ ਬਰਮੇ ਆਖਹਿ ਇੰਦ ॥

ਆਖਹਿ ਗੋਪੀ ਤੈ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ॥-ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਿਬਸਨੁ ਮਹਾਦੇੳੁ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਭੁਲੇ ਹੳੁਮੈ ਮੋਹੁ ਵਧਾਿੲਅਾ ॥-ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਿਬਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸੁ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਮੂਰਿਤ ਿਤ੍ਰਗੁਿਣ ਭਰਿਮ ਭੁਲਾੲੀ ॥੧੬॥ -ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਿਬਸਨੁ ਮਹਾਦੇੳੁ ਤ੍ਰੈਗੁਣ ਰੋਗੀ ਵਿਚ ਹੳੁਮੈ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾੲੀ॥

ਜਿਨ ਕੀੲੇ ਿਤਸਿਹ ਨ ਚੇਤਿਹ ਬਪੁੜੇ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਿਖ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾੲੀ ॥੨॥ -ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ

ਬ੍ਹਮਾ ਿਬਸਨੁ ਮਹੇਸੁ ਤ੍ਰਰੈ ਲੋਕ ਵੇਦ ਗੁਣ ਿਗਅਾਨ ਲੰਘਾੲੇ-ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ

ਬ੍ਰਹਮੈ ਗਰਬੁ ਕੀਅਾ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਿਨਅਾ ॥

ਬੇਦ ਕੀ ਿਬਪਿਤ ਪੜੀ ਪਛੁਤਾਿਨਅਾ ॥ -ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ

ਰੋਗੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਿਬਸਨੁ ਸਰੁਦ੍ਰਾ ਰੋਗੀ ਸਗਲ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥

ਹਰਿ ਪਦੁ ਚੀਿਨ ਭੲੇ ਸੇ ਮੁਕਤੇ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਵੀਚਾਰਾ ॥੪॥-ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ

ਹਮ ਮਹੇਸਰ ਿਬਸਨ ਸਚੀਪਿਤ ਅੰਤ ਫਸੇ ਜਮ ਫਾਸ ਪਰੈਂਂਗੇ ॥ -ਅਕਾਲ ਉਸਤਤਿ, ਸ੍ੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਹਿਬ ਜੀ

ਕੋਿਟ ਿਬਸਨ ਕੀਨੇ ਅਵਤਾਰ ॥

ਕੋਿਟ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਧ੍ਰਮਸਾਲ ॥

ਕੋਿਟ ਮਹੇਸ ੳੁਪਾਿੲ ਸਮਾੲੇ ॥

ਕੋਿਟ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਜਗੁ ਸਾਜਣ ਲਾੲੇ ॥੧॥-ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ

ਦੋਹਰਾ॥

ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਉ ਛਾਡ ਕਰਿ ਭਜੈ ਦੇਵ ਕੋਈ ਅਉਰ

ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਭ੍ਰਮਤਾ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਲਹਹਿ ਨ ਸੁਖ ਕੀ ਠਉਰ ॥੧੬॥

ਪਾਹਨ ਕੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰੈ ਸਿਖ ਨ ਨਿਵਾਵਹਿ ਸੀਸ ਸੋ ਸਾਕਤ ਨਿਗੁਰਾ ਸਦਾ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਜਗਦੀਸ॥੧੭॥ -ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ

ਚੌਪਈ॥

ਛੇ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੀ ਜੋ ਮਤ ਧਾਰੈ॥ ਕੁਲ ਸੰਬੂਹ ਲੈ ਨਰਕ ਸਿਧਾਰੈ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਗੁਰ ਸਿਖਨ ਕਰੇ ਸੇਵਾ॥ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਮਾਨੋ ਸੁਰ ਨਰ ਦੇਵਾ॥੨੭॥ -ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ

ਲੈਣਾ ਦੇਣਾ ਖਾਲਸੇ ਆਨ ਦੇਵ ਸਭ ਝੂਠ ਅਉਰ ਦੇਵ ਇਵ ਮਾਨੀਏ ਜਿਉਂ ਬਾਰੂ ਕੀ ਮੂਠ॥੨੯॥-ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ

ਮੜ੍ਹੀ ਦੇਵ ਗੋਰਲ ਤਜੈ ਔਰ ਨ ਪੰਥ ਪੁਜਵਾਇ॥-ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਦਾਯਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ

ਸਵੈਯਾ॥ ਪਾਿੲ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋੳੂ ਅਾਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਅਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂਂ ਮਤ ੲੇਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ॥ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਬੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ੲੇਕ ਨ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਪਾਨ ਿਕ੍ਰਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਹਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਿਹ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥

-ਚਉਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ, ਸ੍ੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਹਿਬ ਜੀ

ਚੌਪੲੀ ॥ ਮੈ ਨ ਗਨੇਸਿਹ ਿਪ੍ਰਥਮ ਮਨਾੳੂਂਂ ॥ ਿਕਸਨ ਿਬਸਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਿਹ ਿਧਅਾੳੂਂਂ ॥ ਕਾਨ ਸੁਨੇ ਪਹਿਚਾਨ ਨ ਿਤਨ ਸੋ ॥ ਿਲਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਮੋਰੀ ਪਗ ਿੲਨ ਸੋ ॥੨॥ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਲ ਰਖਵਾਰ ਹਮਾਰੋ ॥ ਮਹਾਂ ਲੋਹ ਮੈ ਿਕੰਕਰ ਥਾਰੋ ॥ ਅਪਨਾ ਜਾਨ ਕਰੋ ਰਖਵਾਰ ॥ ਬਾਂਿਹ ਗਹੇ ਕੀ ਲਾਜ ਿਬਚਾਰ ॥੩॥ ਅਪਨਾ ਜਾਨ, ਮੁਝੈ ਪ੍ਰਿਤਪਰੀਅੈ ॥ ਚੁਨ ਚੁਨ ਸਤ੍ ਹਮਾਰੇ ਮਰੀਅੈ ॥ ਦੇਗ ਤੇਗ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਦੋੳੂ ਚਲੈ ॥ ਰਾਖ ਅਾਪ ਮੁਿਹ ਅੳੁਰ ਨ ਦਲੈ ॥੪॥

ਤੁਮ ਮਮ ਕਰਹੁ ਸਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਿਤਪਾਰਾ ॥ ਤੁਮ ਸਾਿਹਬ ਮੈ ਦਾਸ ਿਤਹਾਰਾ ॥ ਜਾਨ ਅਾਪਨਾ ਮੁਝੈ ਿਨਵਾਜ ॥ ਅਾਪ ਕਰੋ ਹਮਰੇ ਸਭ ਕਾਜ ॥੫॥

ਤੁਮ ਹੋ, ਸਭ ਰਾਜਨ ਕੇ ਰਾਜਾ ॥ ਅਾਪੇ ਅਾਪੁ ਗਰੀਬ ਿਨਵਾਜਾ ॥ ਦਾਸ ਜਾਨ ਕਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰਹੁ ਮੁਿਹ ॥ ਹਾਰ ਪਰਾ ਮੈ ਅਾਿਨ ਦੁਅਾਰ ਤੁਿਹ ॥੬॥

ਅਪਨਾ ਜਾਨ, ਕਰੋ ਪ੍ਰਿਤਪਾਰਾ ॥ ਤੁਮ ਸਾਿਹਬੁ ਮੈਂਂ ਿਕੰਕਰੁ ਥਾਰਾ ॥ ਦਾਸ ਜਾਨ ਦੈ ਹਾਥ ੳੁਬਾਰੋ ॥ ਹਮਰੇ ਸਭ ਬੈਰੀਅਨ ਸੰਘਾਰੋ ॥੭॥

ਿਪ੍ਰਥਮ ਧਰੋਂਂ ਭਗਵਤ ਕੋ ਧਾਨਾ ॥ ਬਹੁਰ ਕਰੋਂਂ ਕਬਿਤਾ ਿਬਧ ਨਾਨਾ ॥ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਜਥਾ ਮਤਿ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ੳੁਚਾਰੋ ॥ ਚੂਕ ਹੋਿੲ ਕਬਿ ਲੇਹੁ ਸੁਧਾਰੋ ॥੮॥

ਿੲਿਤ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦੇਵੀ ੳੁਸਤਤਿ ਸਮਾਪਤਮ ॥ - ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਅਵਤਾਰ, ਸ੍ੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਹਿਬ ਜੀ

ਪ੍ਰਜਾ ਸਕਲ ਚਹੁਂ ਬਰਨਨਿ ਸਹਿਤ॥ ਇਨ ਤੇ ਰਾਖੈ ਨਯਾਰੀ ਰਹਿਤ॥ -ਮੁਕਤਿਨਾਮਾ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥

ਆਸਾ ਨਾ ਕਰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਨਾ ਨਾ ਪਰਸੇ ਪਗ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਆਪ ਤ੍ਯਾਗਿ ਦੂਜੈ ਲਗੇ ਕੂੰਭਿ ਨਰਕ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਇ ॥੧॥ -ਵਾਰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਤ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦

ਜਬ ਲਗ ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ ਰਹੇ ਨਿਆਰਾ॥ ਤਬ ਲਗ ਤੇਜ ਕੀਉ ਮੈਂ ਸਾਰਾ॥ ਜਬ ਇਹ ਗਹੈ ਬਿਪਰਨ ਕੀ ਰੀਤ॥ ਮੈਂ ਨ ਕਰੋਂ ਇਨ ਕੀ ਪਰਤੀਤ॥ - ਸ੍ਰੀ ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦

ਰੀਤਿ ਬੇਦ ਕੀ ਤਯਾਗੈ ਨਾਂਹੀ॥ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਸਮੇਤ ਸਿੱਖ ਕੋ ਸਾਰੈ॥ -ਮੁਕਤਿਨਾਮਾ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦

ਬਰਨਾਸ਼੍ਰਮ ਕੀ ਰੀਤਿ ਬਿਰੋਧੀ॥ ਮਮ ਸਿਖ ਕਰਹਿ ਨ ਰਾਖਹਿ ਸੋਧੀ॥ -ਮੁਕਤਿਨਾਮਾ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦

ਬਹੁਤ ਕਰਮ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਕੋ ਪਿਤਾ ਪਿਤਾਮਾਂ ਦੇਵ॥ ਨਹਿਂ ਮਾਨਹਿਂ ਸਿੱਖ ਸੀਖ ਲੇ ਰਖਿ ਭਰੋਸ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ॥੪੨॥ -ਮੁਕਤਿਨਾਮਾ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦

ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਂਡ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਾਮਦੇੳੁ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਘਰੁ ੧

ੴ ਸਿਤਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਿਦ ॥

ਅਸੁਮੇਧ ਜਗਨੇ॥

ਤੁਲਾ ਪੁਰਖ ਦਾਨੇ॥

ਪ੍ਰਾਗ ਿੲਸਨਾਨੇ॥੧॥

ਤੳੁ ਨ ਪੁਜਿਹ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਰਿਤ ਨਾਮਾ॥

ਅਪੁਨੇ ਰਾਮਿਹ ਭਜੁ ਰੇ ਮਨ ਅਾਲਸੀਅਾ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾੳੁ ॥

ਗਿੲਅਾ ਿਪੰਡੁ ਭਰਤਾ॥

ਬਨਾਰਿਸ ਅਿਸ ਬਸਤਾ॥

ਮੁਿਖ ਬੇਦ ਚਤੁਰ ਪੜਤਾ॥੨॥

ਸਗਲ ਧਰਮ ਅਿਛਤਾ॥

ਗੁਰ ਿਗਅਾਨ ਿੲੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਿਦ੍ਰੜਤਾ॥

ਖਟੁ ਕਰਮ ਸਿਹਤ ਰਹਤਾ॥੩॥

ਿਸਵਾ ਸਕਿਤ ਸੰਬਾਦੰ॥

ਮਨ ਛੋਿਡ ਛੋਿਡ ਸਗਲ ਭੇਦੰ॥

ਿਸਮਰਿ ਿਸਮਰਿ ਗੋਿਬੰਦੰ॥

ਭਜੁ ਨਾਮਾ ਤਰਿਸ ਭਵ ਿਸੰਧੰ॥੪॥੧॥

ਗੋਂਂਡ॥

ਭੈਰੳੁ ਭੂਤ ਸੀਤਲਾ ਧਾਵੈ॥

ਖਰ ਬਾਹਨੁ ੳੁਹੁ ਛਾਰੁ ੳੁਡਾਵੈ॥੧॥

ਹੳੁ ਤੳੁ ੲੇਕੁ ਰਮੲੀਅਾ ਲੈਹੳੁ॥

ਅਾਨ ਦੇਵ ਬਦਲਾਵ ਿਨ ਦੈਹੳੁ॥੧॥ਰਹਾੳੁ॥

ਿਸਵ ਿਸਵ ਕਰਤੇ ਜੋ ਨਰੁ ਿਧਅਾਵੈ॥

ਬਰਦ ਚਢੇ ਡੳੁਰੂ ਢਮਕਾਵੈ॥੨॥

ਮਹਾ ਮਾੲੀ ਕੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰੈ॥

ਨਰ ਸੈ ਨਾਰਿ ਹੋਿੲ ਅੳੁਤਰੈ॥੩॥

ਤੂ ਕਹੀਅਤ ਹੀ ਅਾਿਦ ਭਵਾਨੀ॥

ਮੁਕਿਤ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਅਾ ਕਹਾ ਛਪਾਨੀ॥੪॥

ਗੁਰਮਿਤ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਗਹੁ ਮੀਤਾ॥

ਪ੍ਰਣਵੈ ਨਾਮਾ ਿੲੳੁ ਕਹੈ ਗੀਤਾ॥੫॥੨॥੬॥

i am concerned as to what action did Dam Dami Taksaal take ..i hope they didnt do the same with him like they did with those poor paathis a few weeks back .

Thakur Sinh is from the Dhumma controlled Bhindra Mehta faction of Taksal. All the Gyanis and good Gursikhs have been kicked out and government stooges have been put in place. What could you expect from the likes of those who use drugs ( not Bhang Sukha, Drugs!), kiss the bare ass of Badal, associate with enemies, betray the Panth and ruin the institution of Baba Thakur Singh Jee?

The Singhs that beat up the Paathis are from DamDami Taksal Ajnala, a Jatha that vehemently opposes Dhumma.

I don't trust any of them.

Hanuman was an allegory and metaphor, for one.

Also can you provide references?

It's kind of odd to me, because I've seen previous videos where members of the committee said not to beat the elderly and in many videos, they haven't.

Before going any further, there is one thing to note down.

The DamDami Taksal has used Sakhis, folklore, and traditional legends to instill a lesson of ethics and morals.

furthermore, can you reference which book makes these claims? Some of the books from Taksal by are by authors who admittedly make a few details up about their own Sants and Jathedars.

I remember someone pointing out how the books of taksal have gone through some editing at changes even after the author has left the world.

We've all heard the Sakhi of the Singh who misread Gurbani and Guru Sahib then tells him that he is bending and twisting his fingers. What would you say to that?

If Guru Nanak Dev Jee were to bleed, I doubt it would be degrading or showing weakness, because Guru Sahib is beyond death and pain, it wouldn't matter to him.

Paapiman, be ready to defend your Baba Gurbachan Singh and Taksal:

We have Taksal chiefs book saying stuff like

* Guru Har Rai married 8 sisters at the age of 11.

* Bhagats of SGGS reincarnated as Panj Pyare - attack on gurbani, because bhagats wrote bani of SGGS and are still told to be in reincarnation cycle. I don't want stories like 'oh blabla the Bhagats wanted to get amrit' because why didn't all Bhagats come back then to take amrit? And historical proofs show that Bhagats did meet Guru Nanak Dev Ji and get amrit from Guru Sahib so why again? Did Mardana come again too? And Baba Buddha?

On page 62 Gurbachan Singh says that one shouldn't read Gurbani while walking because once Guru Nanak dev jis feet started bleeding when a sikh was reciting kirtan sohila while walking. Hello, wake up?

1. Regarding Guru Har Rai Sahibs marriage:

I am no modern apologetic Sikh trying to deny that some of our Gurus had more than a marriage, but there were some causes such as having no children (Guru Arjan Ji, Guru Gobind Singh ji) but to claim that Guru Har Rai married 8 sisters and that too at the age of 11 is plain stupid. Yes, our Gurus married quite early but the bride only came later when she was older, but what about this marriage where 8 sisters are married off to Guru Ji? What is the historical basis?

2. Bhagats were out of janam maran - reincarnation. Besides that they had taken Amrit from Guru Nanak Dev Ji so they had no need to take amrit from Guru Gobind Singh (10th Nanak) as some of your taksalis claim.

3. Baba Gurbachan is in clear contradiction with Gurmat by saying you can't recite Gurbani while walking:

Moreover, to justify this so called Rehat he makes up a Sakhi about Guru Nanak Dev Jis feet bleeding when a Sikh recited Bani while walking.

Did Baba Ji know of this pangti?

Page 404, Line 18

ਚਾਲਤ ਬੈਸਤ ਸੋਵਤ ਹਰਿ ਜਸੁ ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਚਰਨ ਖਟਾਨੀ ॥੨॥

Walking, sitting and sleeping, I chant the Lord's Praises; I treasure His Feet in my mind and body. ||2||

Guru Arjan Dev

In regards to the reincarnation of Bhagats, read Att Khalsa Mool Mantar.

In my opinion, I think Keski should be mandatory. However, shouldn't woman also wear Dastar over the Keskis in the Hazoori of Guru Sahib? I know many Singhs believe that when they go in Guru Sahib's Hazoori they should tie a Dastar over the Keski ( and for some the Dastar must cover the ears).

The Singhnis of Shaheed Gyani Gurdev Singh Kaunke's ( his daughter lives in my city) and Sant Gyani Gurbachan Singh Khalsa Bhinderawale Ji's family wore Keskis.

With that being said, Bibis who chose not to tie Keskis shouldn't be looked down upon.

Exactly veer, It almost seems everytime we get- it takes a high avastha to be able to control kaam temptations or takes high avastha to simply sway away from thoughts into some effort in abiding in shabad.... sorry to say it almost seems like cop out method preventing or depriving one self growth, self discovery, self reflection, self awareness and more important being totally honest/truthful to yourself and pursue to improve with truth and integrity. Basic root definition of sikh is learner, constant learning without imbalance self loathing etc..its acknowledgement, learning, discovery, improvement move on.

I would agree.

I remember reading about 7 methods of avoiding Kaam which were really practical, and it wouldn't take a "high avastha" to abide by.

This is sickening. I don't even what to say to this. The people of Panjab are just piling up the sins they're committed and the bad Karma.

ਕੁਚਲਕਠੋਰਕਾਿਮਗਰਧਭਤੁਮਨਹੀਸੁਿਨਓਧਰਮਰਾਿੲ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾੳੁ ॥

ਕੁਚਲ ਕਠੋਰ ਕਾਿਮ ਗਰਧਭ ਤੁਮ ਨਹੀ ਸੁਿਨਓ ਧਰਮਰਾਿੲ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾੳੁ ॥

You filthy, heartless, lustful donkey! Haven't you heard of the Righteous Judge of Dharma? ||1||Pause||

But it DOES trace it's Rehet Maryada back to the original!

Not really, AKJ's Rehat Maryada has flaws too.

reads more like a propaganda item from their website.

All these guys from AKJ.org and associated sites are very shady, as a matter of fact, they're the farthest thing from Akhand Kirtani Jatha. They even plagued Tapoban's websites.

AKJ.org's Jathedar himself was chosen through a non-Gurmat style and since he's been in control, almost the Whole Jatha has gone in the gutter.

They reject Dasam Patshah's Bani, have a load of Ashiqs, Haram scandals, and trouble makers.

These guys aren't to be confused with Akhandkirtanijatha.org, who have rejected AKJ.org wale's Jathedar ( they split) and who have full faith in Dasam Pita's Bani (from Jap Sahib to Hikaaytan and beyond) and still maintain the Maryada regarding Kurehatees.

Due to AKJ.org's huge presence internationally, their resources, and their population, these Kurehatees, Bemukhs, Dasam Bani-nindhaks and Pakhandis have painted the image of everyone under the label of AKJ.

One would think scholars / academics should not misinterpret Gurbani to put Singhnis in a subordinate inferior position to Singhs...

Not all Taksalis are like that.

Here is answer to your question on AKJ and how their rehet is closest to the original:

"Unfortunately at many points in our history, true and authentic Sikh rehit became something that was rare. After numerous holocausts and extended periods of living in the jungles of Punjab, differences in rehit crept into the Sikh Panth.

The rehit is a code of conduct which has been passed down from the original amrit sanchaar in an oral fashion. Old rehitnamas, like the one written by Bhai Desa Singh state, (in the seventh stanza) that rehit which the five utter, keep that steadfast in your mind and later in the ninth stanza, that is the first rehit, the one which the five Singhs said in the Paahul ceremony.

The Khalsa Rehit suffered some dilution in the 18th and 19th century. But the Malwa area of Punjab had some areas where this rehit was preserved. Certain movements like the Namdhari movement, which originally had amazing rehit and was originally not a Gurudom, came out of Malwa. Deras like Baba Ajaipal Singh were known for strict rehit. So the original Khalsa rehit was not lost, it was kept in some places.

How can the AKJ substantiate that their rehit is authentic? The answer comes from looking at historical documents and sources. Keski is a rehit that is clear due to bhat vehees, which are the most historic and authentic documents from the time of the first amrit sanchaar. In these vehis, the records of the original amrit sanchaar list Kesgee as a kakaar. The Akhand Kirtani Jatha is one of the only Sikh groups that still preserves Keski as a kakaar to this day.

Along with his many other qualities, Bhai Randhir Singh was an ardent seeker of truth. He was not bound by many of the Hindu-influenced practices that had infiltrated the panth before his time. He was also not bound by following a belief simply because it was a tradition and therefore assumed to be a maryada. Bhai Randhir Singh sought to look to Gurbani and Sikh history to see what was the authentic Sikh lifestyle and to revive that lifestyle during his life. Keski rehit was revived because of Bhai Randhir Singh even though it had been on the decline since the reign of Maharaja Ranjit Singh. Bhai Randhir Singh cared only for the truth. He was not a Sant-like figure who was bound by the beliefs of a predecessor from the same jatha or group.

So it is fair to say that while the Akhand Kirtani Jatha is a relatively new Jatha, only around 100 years old, that it has been carrying on the Sikh rehit as it existed during the time of Guru Gobind Singh Jee and after the time of Guru Gobind Singh Jee, although the true and authentic Sikh rehit may have become rare at various points in our history.

It is commonplace for many Sikh organizations to claim an uninterrupted connection back to the time of Guru Gobind Singh Jee. A study of Sikh history discredits any such claims. Sikhs should look at their history critically to make the proper judgments on this question. Many groups within the panth claim that their institution has been passed on from the lineage of famous Gursikhs from the time of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee. For example, some claim their lineage comes from Bhai Daya Singh Ji while another group may claim that their unbroken lineage comes from Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh Ji. However, an analysis of these groups demonstrates that their practices are not in line with the great Gursikhs they claim an association with. For example, Bhai Daya Singh Ji mentions to eat out of Sarbloh (iron utensils) from other Amrit Dharis but the group who claims to be descended from his leadership does not follow this practice. Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh Ji describes the method of how panj pyareh teach new Amrit Dharis how to jap naam with the tip of their tongue but the groups claiming a direct lineage to Bhai Mani Singh Ji have not incorporated this into their amrit sanchaars.

Secondly, the process of giving authority to one being and passing it down to a student is not in accordance with Gurmat. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave authority to Punj Pyareh and every panthic institution in the past was governed by the Punj Pyareh so no group can claim a direct lineage or a secret understanding of puratan (old time) traditions when they have abandoned the tradition of Punj Pyareh governance."

The Rehat of the Ashki Karaunwala Jatha is not the most authentic.

For example, the Keski being the fifth Kaakar argument is based solely on their own reasoning, and an excerpt from a Bhatt Vahi, which is no longer available in it's original form.

Also, isn't the Bhai Desa Singh Rehatnama the same Rehatnama that says to protect the cow and Brahman?

Furthermore, their reasoning for a short Mool Mantar is also weak and has been refuted.

The short Chaupai Sahib argument is also redundant and incoherent to Sri Dasam Granth Sahib's Bani.

Don't get me wrong here, I myself associate with the Akhand Kirtani Jatha but I however an annoyed the likes of the PKJ (AKJ.org wale, Shikaaris, Dasam Bani nindhaks, etc.) who have a superiority complex and act as if they're without flaw and most intelligent in the Panth.

And for Sarblohi Aahar Bibek, it has been kept by many Taksalis and Nihangs as well.

Taksali are all men for men... Even if they can prove some sort of direct lineage, it doesn't mean that the message they have now is the original message, or that they can't carry misogyny throughout that lineage or that sexism is ok. I'm not going to listen to someone who tells me I should shut and up and obey my husband since I am inferior to him. Or that I am somehow spiritually lacking or dirty or unclean to do seva.

I think we need to get away from sects with their own agendas period and just be Sikhs.

Ok, first off, don't group all Taksalis to be one and the same. That would be like saying all Nihangs are government's Fauj, or All AKJ are Shikaari, all Nanaksaris are sex offenders, all Nirmale are this And that group is that etc.

it's Pathetic and insulting.

What I've been explained is that Gangu Shaheeai is a metaphor that refers to those that get our Singhs and Singhni Shaheed. Either way, we shouldn't have Mel with any of them.