Maha Singh

singh2, rather then copy and paste quotes which youve gathered over the years, read what Harjas is saying. The way you try to bat off debate by pitting Gurbani against Gurbani makes it look like the Guru contradicted himself.

You concentrate so much on the names of Gods, you miss the deeper philosophy. This isnt "The War of the Gods".

Right Sampardai Arths as per Sant Gurbachan singh Ji and Sant Mohan Singh Ji Bhindrawalae is that in pauri 46 of Vaar 1 the Sikhs asked Sri Guru Hargobind Ji about how many more sargun avtars they would take. They used the words Jug Jug to state that they would take only 2 + 2 = 4 more avtars. The Sikhs then asked who will be the Guru after that to Guide the sikhs through the ages. At that point they repeated the last line and explained that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji will be given the gurgaddi and will the Guru 'jug jug' throughout the ages to follow that. I also have sant hari singh jis katha of this pauri which i will post in a couple of months!

I have trouble understanding how Jug Jug means 2+2, please explain.

N30,

I would do a cyber-benti for you to give your thoughts on what you've read so far as your priceless gems make all of us go into a stage of antar-anant-sat-chit-anand-mangal-saroop!

I also feel, as people who are linked to tsingh, even through a cyberconnection of being part of the same cyber community, we should engage in discussions on various aspects here and be very honest about what we understand and what we don't understand.

This will open up dialogue for everyone!

Ive got through over half of the book, it is a good read, well written and explains various concepts well. My only qualm with the book is the margins are very tight, so the text goes very close to the binding, meaning you have to stretch the book out flat in order to read the last word in the sentence, or maybe that is my own pickyness. Other then that, another great publication by TSingh. Keep up the good work.

What else can be said apart from practise, practise and practise until your mind constantly ticks over with strategies and counters, counter counters etc. Such things are best discussed in person where you can demonstrate the variables. As with anything, you have to think when you first begin, but over time it becomes sutteya sidh. I have messaged you with a text book which you may find interesting.

"You could get to number 2 with straw mats, but the real practise is in 3, unless you put your straw mats on conveyor belts "

Sorry, just forgot to add, the mats are for sword practice (hence don't need moving targets), not projectile practice as per Dhanurveda, talking of which, are you familiar with any any other puratan Shastar Vidya granths, specifically open handed combat and sword/weapon combat... Dhanurveda focuses specifically on archery (also transposable to other projectiles i.e. chakkars) but it does make passing mentions of the other 6 forms of combat in Bahuyudha.

There is very little if no texts available on Shastarvidiya, Sri Dasam and Sri Sarbloh Darbar speak of certain technqiues, Sooraj Parkash and Parcheen Panth Parkash also mention various techniques and strategies, however without the personal knowledge which is taught by the masters, it is hard to understand or grasp what these are. For example, the technique Chaddeh Gaateh is mentioned in Sooraj Parkash, its meaning is expanded upon briefly in Mahan Kosh (Lat Deh Jor Vich Hath Paakeh, GaRdan Teh Paar Pauna) however unless you have been taught the technique it would be hard to carry it out (mainly due to the skill required to get to the position of dominance to execute the move and understanding how to break structure and balance).

Similarly you can learn all the Marams from books, but that doesnt teach you how to hit them in the correct way, how to combine multiple maram strikes together to break an opponents strength, how deep each maram is etc. Traditionally nothing was written down, it is passed to the students by the Gurdev, and the vidiya is learnt thru experience, this is something which you cannot learn through books, hence it would be pointless to write it down. I dont know how much experience you have at Shastarvidiya, but im sure you appreciate how hard it would be to explain, expand and write down the subtle tactics, strategies and footworks to defeat an opponent who can do a myriad of counters, responses depending upon his own skill, timing, and experience. This is why the vidiya is earnt through physical practise, meditation and sacrifice of time.

Maha Singh I totally agree that the most important part is Yudh Abyaas, but target practice is still very important in terms of acquiring accuracy, feel, touch, strength, technique for real cutting, striking, chopping etc.

slashing through a leather jacket for example is not as easy as it seems, and stabbing and drawing (cleanly) is not simple, it requires practice, as does twisting a blade inside a target before pulling it out (this must make me sound like psychopath).

accurate Hujs to small targets like the eyes and armpits etc require much practice on targets.

Regarding throwing practice i.e. small chakkars or knives, it goes without saying, target practice is most important.

Ganneh are basically identical to bamboo in terms of consistency and strength etc, shame you can't get them in the UK!

Throwing Chakars, Karas and Knives requires little practise as they are suprisingly accurate if you know the technique on how to throw them. In the Danurveda it explains the different ways to improve accuracy and the different types of target.

1 - When both target and yourself are stationary

2 - When target is moving and you are stationary

3 - When both yourself and target are moving

You could get to number 2 with straw mats, but the real practise is in 3, unless you put your straw mats on conveyor belts

No issue with you trying, but I was thinking you could save yourself the money and mess.

Traditionally Ganneh (Sugarcane)and Coconuts were used as to practise cutting and target practise for Chakar throwing, that is why when Ganneh are cut during some Akhand Paats as they have a similar strength to bone and skull.

Cutting and target practise is not much of a skill to perfect, as the target is standing still and all it takes is a sharp blade and repitition to aquire decent skill. In real indian swordsmanship you dont do big swings, all that is required to cut through flesh is placing the blade on the skin and drawing.

What is more important is the meditation upon the different variables of a battle, and constant refinement of strategy, footwork, technique and counters in order to get to the point of killing.

If you can hone your ability to practise actual combat for swordsmanship, then the cuts and kills will come automatically without having to purchase straw mats, bamboo, or Tameshigiri.

Includes a performance by the legendary masters of Dhrupad - Dagar brothers (for those who can tolerate and even respect Muslims).

Also Nick Flemings Nihang exhibition.

Dagar Brothers are amazing!!

I just wanted to find out if anyone manage to read the full book, if yes then does anyone want to take a little seva to write a little review on it here for wider sangat ??

I got the book yesterday and will hopefully finish it soon, after a second read ill put up my thoughts . So far its a very good read and covers things which I have been reading into anyway.

Singh Sabha was not 'sikhs standing up for themselves'. of course thats what theirpedigree want you to believe in retrospect so you respect them as an institution.

whilst other indians- bengal, tamil etc were taking a conservative approach to reviving, protecting and rstoring their language culture and religion what were sabhias doing?

during their time so many historical documents went missing. where was their good intention? they initiated editing sikh historical texts. they mutilated the panjabi language by introducing 'sh' z' sounds etc

Where not Sh and other "pehreh bindi" words introduced to the Gurmukhi Alphabet by Guru Gobind Singh?

MDS,

What was required was proof that there was a Nihang in charge of the Akal Takht who was a Jathedar there in 1920. When were 500 Nihangs there? Before or after the British annexation? If it was before the annexation then what relevance does this have in discussing an incident in 1920?

'The Akali headquarters were the Akal Bunga at Amritsar where they assumed the direction of religious ceremonies and the duty of convoking the Gurmata; indeed they laid claim to exercise a general leadership of the Khalsa.'

('Encyclopaedia Of Religion and Ethics', 1908 Pa.268-269)

If you refer to the board, the person posting "Param Singh Sikhi" stated himself that he has not attended Niddar Singhs classes nor does he go to him to learn Shastarvidiya.

On a side note, if people are not Khalsa Singhs ie not taken Khanda Di Paul, are we to expect that they must keep kesh? If so, how do you even expect to enforce that upon anyone?

No Monay in Gurdwaras? Bann Monay from donating money to Gurdwara Golaks? Stop Monay from reading Gurbani?

There was a nice Hanshee Kukri on oriental-arms.com the other day but its been sold, there is a good normal Kukri on there if your interested.

http://oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=3784

Depends on the condition of the blade, if its been kept well, hasnt got any pitting or live rust on it. The only problem you will see in reality is wear of the Laak inside the handle, but this can be easily sorted out with reapplication of Laak or use of some resin.

Id recommend the 15 inch one as too long Kokris become harder to weild. Personally I dont like modern type shastar, Id always spend my money on a quality antique.

Are the 25 Singhs who learnt based at Raqba?

I will be visiting India again early next year, so will try to trace these guys.

If you go to Himachal Pardesh, you can easily go boar hunting with the villagers there, they have a habit of comin at night to eat at the crops, so villagers there take turns to keep watch and kill boars that venture onto their land.

Thats fine Mr T, Ill order it tonight

Tirath Singh, will you be sending some copies to the Akhara like you did with the previous book?

singh2, please read the full Shabad you posted, as you have missed the key element of the Shabad.

On another note, if the Gurus proclaimed that the Devi Devtas had attained the limits of Vaheguroo, they would be contradicting themselves by making Vaheguroos Ant within reach. Even if you became leen/one with Vaheguroo, you would still not be able to find his limits because Vaheguroo himself is Beant. This shabad emphasises and does the mehima of Vaheguroo, that even such Devtas who people started to worship could not even find the limits of god, that is how beant Akaal Purakh is.

The path of spirituality is not an easy one, overcoming dubidha, vikar and understanding hukam is one thing which can be done by saadhna, to try to find the limits of Vaheguroo is impossible.

Or are you proclaiming that Vaheguroo has a limit?

Singh2 and others, please show a quote on the Shastarvidiya website which promotes the worship and meditation upon anything but Nirgun Waheguroo, Gurbani and Shastar.

Brother Matheen, how is anyone supposed to find Singhs whose names are kept gupt by yourself, and how is anyone supposed to believe this incident of Niddar Singh having a gun to his head without proof? Im sure that if it did happen there is a video somewhere, if there is, lets see it. If Niddar Singh did back out of Hadh Thor Challenges, these videos would have been up ages ago, else its just your word against anyone elses.

Maybe if the above posters read the website with an open mind they would see what is trying to be said, rather then cunjure up what they think it says.

The warfare depicted within it, is mostly of the Sanatan Indian Hindu demigods, goddesses, 'Avtar' (incarnations of 'Vishnu' and 'Shiva' primarily) and 'Yodha'. These beings are seen as the devotees of 'Akal', and thus, are fully respected but not worshipped, though some times the line between this respect and worship is very fine.

For example, what may be seen as seemingly to contradict the above said quote if one did not appreciate the 'Virod Pash' nature of 'Dasam Guru Durbar', as Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh exclaims:

'One Vishnu fully focuses upon me [the Supreme Being speaking to 'Brahma'].

With great service he has pleased me.

What boon he desired. I have given such?

Between him and I is no difference.

All the world has known him as such [confused him with the Immortal Being].

He is recognized as the creator by all the worlds, netherworlds and mountains.'

(Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh, Brahma Avatar, Dasam Guru Durbar)

If there are more singhs who know the vidiya, THAT IS GREAT!!

Now the next thing to do is get Niddar Singh and these 25 singhs together and compare the Vidiya.

If these Singhs have more knowledge about Shastarvidiya then Niddar Singh, then im sure Niddar Singh will accept that and take on their knowledge. If however these Singhs are merely using the name of Baba Mohinder Singh to flog off their vidiya then will you accept that Niddar Singh is right?

How did this Singh in Canada (Navjeet Singh) know that what these 25 Singhs know is the real vidiya of Baba Mohinder Singhs lineage, seeming as Navjeet Singh has no training in Shastarviidya?

This is called duality. It means that believe in two religions. it is not allowed in sikhism.

Do not mould sikh teachings per your whims

ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਲਾਗੈ ਦਹ ਦਿਸਿ ਧਾਵੈ ॥

Dubidhaa laagai deh dis dhaavai:

Attached to duality, the mind wanders in the ten directions

ang 127.

doojai laagee mahal na paa-ay.

Attached to duality, no one attains the Mansion of the Lord's Presence.

ang 111

Are you sure thats the meaning of Dubidha/Doojai? Please provide a refference from a steek or Mahankosh which reinforces this translation.