ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ

And yet I get reviews ,like this from others....https://ibb.co/mHqPLDK

Dalsingh 101 himself has said nothing about what he thinks

Premi's comments also bring up a larger point than whether it is pointless me writing Panjabi for a Fantasy readership...surely than why bother teaching Panjabi outside of India / Pakistan, why waste time making kids learn it in Gurdwarsa, Masjids and Mandars if no one in west will practically use it to read and write? Doesn't it mean GCSE / A Level Panjabi learning and teaching is pointless ( and the equivalents in Canada and Australia?)

3 minutes ago, Premi said:

Firstly, I think your passion and interest in Gurmukhi/Panjabi is to be admired.

Would be interesting to know if there are other S, Asians born/brought up in the West who have written in their own languages, like Hindi, Urdu, Gujarati, Bengali , Tamil etc? And how their works have been received with their target population? 

How much interest is there from native Panjabi/Gurmukhi script speakers born and living in India/E.Asia/E.Africa ?

I think for Western Sikhs, other than being able to read Gurmukhi for reading SGGS Ji and elementary reading ability for signs etc when going to India, most of us will not have much interest/use for Gurmukhi, sadly.

If looking at it from another perspective, then foreign born authors/poets etc who write in English but were raised in countries where English is not the first language tend to have studied in English medium. 

For Panjabi to grow like this in the West, we would have to become bilingual. 

Because my own job involves so much reading and thinking, reading books unfortunately is not a way for me to unwind/relax, especially if it's Gurmukhi - this might be the same for many others.

ok, Sadly that means I went about doing things the wrong way, as in essence I should only have written In Panjabi if I was qualified with either GCSE / A Level Panjabi ( as far as grammar is concerned) or done a Panjabi Medium course. Of course there are hundreds of successful unpaar panjabi writers ( we have similar situation in English as an artistic person doesn't need a degree)  but their advantage over me is it's their daily language in Panjab. My problem is that if I am targeting people who think like me and use Panjabi like me, then as you have proved, I have no reader as all they will use for is sign reading in India or maybe reading SGGS. The ones who can read it as you have already pointed out are in India but they don't get my Panjabi. SO I feel this proves I have been wrong trying to write for them and actually don't have readers. I do not know about other Indian languages in the context you have mentioned

52 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Everything aside I'm just happy you're here bro. 

My Panjabi sentences are considered to be weird and erroneous re spellings and comprehensive grammar by natives. However based on what I think Dalsingh101 said a few months or years back they made sense to his western panjabi mind. I had these stories proof read, admittedly by a British Sikh, who is educated and has lived in the UK for years...yet others find the sentences frustrating and full of typos ( who knows not 2 Panjabis spell the same way as far I have seen in the last 20 years) so when I sent it to an Audiobook reader in Canada she said

reading your story- thanks for sharing somehow many typos and problematic sentences interfere with the flow and understanding of the text

This despite it having been proof read ( Admittedly the guy is no professional but understands our western mind set.)  so here below are the links to stories I sent her ( Assuming you read Panjabi, and if not maybe someone who does can read and say if she is right)

https://www.punjabikahani.punjabi-kavita.com/Khat-Roop-Dhillon.php?fbclid=IwAR1w6vMgQAMt0QSeOX67sRSNWls9v9nu_udiLr5H5igmHvxJd4HTWNCwp8Y

and 

http://www.punjabizm.com/forums-red-ripples-rupinder-dhillon-26192-5-1.html?fbclid=IwAR0CbigmKLJdNytW8ls5v5yx51FNQK9EkNqcHyoV6t0nGT_QL9g6fFzUC0g

49 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Everything aside I'm just happy you're here bro. 

just saw this. So do yo or would you read such stories?

40 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I figured as punjabis continued to become anglicized that your audience would grow. I feel you bro on a profound level. 

You have already contributed excellent works. Remember that victory as you consider course. 

I also have wanted to pm dal101 lol. 

I'll butt out of your pm. 

God bless bro. 

no. It was only a question for Dalsingh as he first shared my work and I know he has a similar background. You are allowed an opinion as much as the next man. Its opinions I am seeking as I am feeling low about all I have tried to do. I think the problem is our anglization or is it that we can only communicate in English now?  The thing is that is also fast becoming the case in Panjab anyhow as far as I can see. They read English more than anything else now and Hindi above Panjabi...this is our parents who only think Economically, so seeing Panjabi as useless have send all the middle class kids to Convert Schools where Panjabi is banned and so now you have only slightly better off Panjabis than us in Panjab who in 2 decades will also stop using Panjabi I think. Nevertheless the question is what can we do to start a British / Canadian / OZ etc movement where even if it is our second language we are willing to and will read Panjabi books, be they Religious, Factual or Fiction.

But before I can openly discuss that with Sikhawareness members I need to understand am I wasting time and there is no audience. That's why I addressed DalSingh and would like to know what you think. For example are you willing ( assuming you already haven't) to learn Panjabi and read books in Panjabi, especially my variety which let's face it takes more from Western Novels and Films than Panjabi books and Bollywood. Or am I wasting my time?

Dear Dalsingh

I did try many times to send this message to you in private but it says you cannot receive messages, so I am going to have to talk and allow the whole world to know.

I could post this under any of the following titles as I am not publicly saying this.

- Am I wasting my life writing in Punjabi?

- Should only those raised in Punjab and educated THERE in punjabi only communicate in the Punjabi language's written form?

- British Sikhs, British Punjabis ( of all religions and beliefs) fundamentally can and should only communicate in English and not Punjabi. Our mother tongue it can never be and we are never going to read it

All the above covers some of my emotions and concerns.

There is a last one..We in the west should create our own group of Punjabi readers and writers of the language in our own English influenced way,,,,even if that creates an elite of a few dozen...or I am just a fool who wastes his life on Punjabi and should join the rest writing in English...after all here I am trying to appeal to you all, knowing Sikhawareness is almost exclusively in Engllish

 So why am I specifically addressing you?

I came to Sikhawareness purely because I found you sharing my stories here. I also recall you saying you have a similar background and understood my Barharlee ( Videsi) Panjabi better than Theth Panjabi due to the change in syntax to how English works and more importantly to it being how us guys raised in the west educated in English tend to speak Panjabi. This gave me hope and motivation, But it has also created a major problem for me.

So the issue is a simple one.  The only people who bother to read Panjabi and can ( Gurmukhi script is all I am talking about here) are all born and raised in Charda Panjab.  However due them being mostly farmers and working people they do not have a reading culture ( despite praying to our Holy book / Guru on a daily basis??!!) or anything but a simple vocab. In short most don't really have knowledge of the equivalent words in Panjabi to my English Vocab, which is the only level I know how to write in.  Their Theth sentences can be alien to us (Western raised Panjabis I mean and not Lahnda ones) and ours are definitely about as Alien to them syntax and word usage wise as  maybe us reading a sentence written in English by a person from the Tibetan mountains in English after only studying the language for 5 days. Maybe its my personal way of writing that is the issue and no other UK punjabi who knows Punjabi has the same problem?

Now I have been told by the Panjabis who have read my books I am far more creative and imaginative than any of their writers but lack the flow to keep the interest of how they know Theth Panjabi, The same set have said that I write like the Western born educated Sikh that I am and my natural audience can only be those few in the west who speak Panjabi by subconsciously adapting the english format ( example instead of saying galti ho gee I write galti ban gaee which is just English in Panjabi words as far as they are concerned). The Irony is this group are always only the children of the immigrant parents and may speak Panjabi, but only to their parents and speak English to their own kids and are highly unlikely to be able to read Panjabi let alone want to read my books. Thus reducing my 10% potential readers to 0.5%.  SO in reality no readers

I have tried to make up for this by writing for Indian Panjabis but they can't get past either my spelllings , grammar or western style sentences any more than we would be able to understand that Tibetan writing English after 5 days of English exposure....Only my journey just to even achieve this much took 20 years of my life. Begs the question I must be insane wasting my life? Also proves that unlike English, Spanish and other races who whereever they go take their languages to put it honestly and bluntly our people are too stupid to take their language with them and then for it to survive in the new enviroment make us kids read and write it. Statistics back up that Muslim people from our part of the world ensure that URDU GCSE uptake is in the thousands, we can't even manage a couple of hundred out of a British Sikh Panjabi population of 500,000 plus!

So I am a fool based on logic writing for people who can't read and trying to appease people who won't... Should I just stop and accept this reality?

Or should we as a group do something about it to create British Panjabi readers?

Depending on your answer I will deal with the last in another post, but right now I feel like who the hell I am writing for? People who do not read for leisure??

Why bother??

All I can say is that I have become addicted to write in my form of Punjabi and can't help writing...it is true that in my early years I fell in love with the Painti when I saw it in those Gurdwara Kaidas

On 10/17/2022 at 10:35 PM, GurjantGnostic said:

You are the Vincent Vangough of Punjabi literature my guy. 

May you also become an Andy Warhol. 

May you live to see the impact of your works brother. 

Outside of Gurbani how many Punjabi works are going to effect the future of this planet?

Well remember in 2030 when Roop Dhillons works served as inspiration and source for generations to embrace and bridge Punjabi and english?

Sir you give me too much credit.. I am just trying to write in the "accent" of the western Punjabi Sikh, as I think the next gen of us in west won't even be able to speak Punjabi..Gurbani will probably be translated into English for them

On 9/15/2022 at 4:29 AM, GurjantGnostic said:

Punjabi Awakening

 

'Chitta Te Kala' is a novel about Punjabi immigrants living in England.

 

Book: Black and White (Novel)

 

Author: Roop Dhillon

 

Pages : 390 Price : 650/

 

Publisher: Avis Publication, Delhi.

 

Roop Dhillon is a Punjabi writer based in England. He learned Punjabi regularly and then started reading and writing. read a lot 'Chitta Te Kala' is a large-scale work of his, the basis of which is the social life of the Punjabi immigrants living in England from the beginning till now. How do the Punjabi people who have gone from here adapt themselves there? What has to be done and what is done, everything is recorded in this novel. The novel has a different structure. There are three parts - across the sea, lion's claw and transfiguration. It has named three books. After that, the story of Samaddar Par comes before 1 to 10, then there are the first five parts of Sher and Tsui, then there are fifteen chapters of the third book. Then from the fifth part of the second book to the tenth part and at the end of the first book Samandar Par the chapters are from ten to 16. The special thing is that all Hindse Gurmukhi have appeared in print for the first time after a long time. The first book, Time Dar Par, contains the religious, political, social and economic details of the Punjabis during their rule from 1860 onwards. Racism has distinctions and discriminations. There are changing circumstances. The second part is the state and direction of the human characters through symbols through wild animals. Lions are wild animals and the phenomenon of the world and the wild state has been depicted symbolically. The last section contains the situation so far. Along with England, Punjab runs. The generation gap, the decline of racism, but also the wealth-poverty and the differences from our western culture are included. Britain is organized and lively. It is long but relevant and readable as it is about migrant life.

 

- Teja Singh Tilak

this is google translate I think and is full of inaccuracies. eg Sher de tasoohe is not Lion's Claw but the Tears of a Tiger

On 8/23/2022 at 11:46 PM, Sajjan_Thug said:

Many good ideas you have.  
Here are couple of points to consider 

We should start with improving the religious institutions first because they are already dedicated and ready made group that teach Punjabi.  Improving and upgrading their knowledge will improve the standard of Punjabi for a segment of society. 

The religious and academic teachers of Punjabi need to be brought together to share ideas and work together to raise the standards.

Also, you need to have a ready made course curriculum for beginners, medium and advance students.  This way everything is standardized and organized.  This way everybody is taught to the same standards.  

These courses exists ie the AQA Curriculum. Rhona has said the AQA throw events online to get teachers to meet up every year. The issue is the GCSE standard assume the people teaching are UK teacher qualified to the same standard as those teaching French for example. But on speaking to many kids who have gone to the Gurdwara, the impression given is that the teaching staff is not that educated but are only volunteers. It is a deep rooted issue as when I spoke to University Professors in India they admitted that even in Punjab the only people who become teachers in village and town schools are those who are not that well educated in Punjabi so teach it wrong there and these same people normally only pursue being a Granthi or Punjabi teacher when they are not good at anything else. So if the standards there are low and we are getting those same people coming here and teaching...not good

1 hour ago, Premi said:

Hindi Is only spoken by 45% of India'spopulation. India's legal and economic language is English. Its is the only language understood in all of india Ironic as it means India is still really ruled by a Foreign power in that the law is all in English as is the constitution> Many white poeple i know in Canada and UK are surrounded by Punjabi, Gujarati and Bengali speakers and these languages are spoken by 85% of Indians living outside of India. 45% of the UK Indian population is Punjabi. Hardly anyone has taken Hindi as an exam compared to the other languages ( see above charts and contact Cambridge board which is the only one examining Hindi in UK). Famously Stephen Gucciadi learnt Punjabi and became famous as the Punjabi speaking gora. I have spoken to him and despite his wife being Hindu he said he learnt Punjabi because that was the de facto main Indian language in the west.

Almost all Pakistanis I know speak Punjabi. Its only 7 % of Pakistan's population knows Urdu. I assume you are not Sikh and are from India so have no knowledge of actual life in the west?

1 hour ago, Premi said:

Panjabi is rejected by Pakistani Panjabis in favor of Urdu and 'Shahmukhi' script. 

Westerners more likely would want to learn Hindi as it more widely spoken than Panjabi if they go to India.

2 hours ago, Premi said:

Simple but blunt question.

why would non-Sikhs want to learn Panjabi?

 

A lot of Punjabi speakers aren’t Sikh and many westerners are interested in Indian culture 

Saying Punjabi should only be learnt by Sikhs is like saying Spanish should only be learnt by Catholics and German only by,,,etc etc..That is the problem in our community, Sikhs but make up less than a third of Punjabis. If we only keep on looking at it through a religious lens we are killing a language that was there before Baba Nanak. He did not make it a language to communicate because it was Sikh, which it became the language of as one community of Punjabis. he made it the language he chose because it was the common tongue and most people were either Muslim or Hindu. Our Indian mind always thinks in these terms which is why we are killing all but frivolous part of our culture. The second reason is its only languages that are taught to majority that get good funding and interest and thrive in a country. So why learn French? We are not all communists like them? But we learn it because being bilingual improves everyone's chances in the world. Make Punjabi economically significant so the schools teach it. take it out of religious institutions,. Almost every Punjabi kid I have spoken to has said uneducated people teach them Punjabi in temples and its just a place to dup kids. 

41 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

Also, their 'engaging' with Panjabi 'culture' is more likely to be in the form of listening to someone like Moosewala or Diljeet Dosanj than reading.    

Yup

On 8/18/2022 at 4:31 PM, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

 ਸੋ ਹੈਰਾਨੀ ਵਾਲੀ ਗੱਲ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਯੂ.ਕੇ ਦੇ ਵਿੱਚ 700,000 ਦੇ ਖਰੀਬ ਭਾਰਤੀ / ਚੜ੍ਹਦੇ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਵੱਲੋਂ ਵਾਸੀ ਨੇ ਪਰ ਜ਼ਿਆਦਾ ਜਣੇ ਹੁਣ ਬਾਹਰਵਾਸੀ ਹੀ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੋਏ ਨੇ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਇਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਵਿੱਚੋਂ ਕੇਵਲ 273,000 ਕਹਿੰਦੇ ਅਸੀਂ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਬੋਲ਼ ਸਕਦੇ ਨੇ। ਠੀਕ, ਪਰ ਫੇਰ ਸਭ ਤੋਂ ਸ਼ਰਮਨਾਕ ਗੱਲ ਹੈ ਕਿ 273,000 ( 7 ਲੱਖ ਦਾ 40 ਪ੍ਰਤਿਸ਼ਤ ਅੰਕ) ਵਿੱਚੋਂ 112 ( ਜੇ ਆਪਾਂ ਫ਼ਰਜ਼ ਕਰੀਏ ਕਿ ਤੀਜਾ ਹਿੱਸਾ) ਸ਼ਾਇਦ 90,000 ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਬੋਲ਼ਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਬੱਚਿਆਂ 'ਚੋਂ ਹੀ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਏ ਲੇਵਲ ਕਰਨ ਤਿਆਰ ਸਨ! 112 ਤਾਂ 273 ਹਜ਼ਾਰ 'ਚੋਂ ਸਿਰਫ਼ 0.04 ਫ਼ੀਸ ਹੈ!
ਇਸ ਦਾ ਇਹ ਹੀ ਕਾਰਣ / ਇਸ ਦੀ ਵੱਜਾ ਇਹੀ ਹੀ ਹੋ ਸਕਦਾ/ ਸਕਦੀ ਕਿ ਸਚਾਈ ਵਿੱਚ ਜਿੰਨਾ ਮਰਜ਼ੀ ਲੋਕਾਂ'ਚ ਸ਼ੋਰ ਮਾਰ ਦੇ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਬੋਲੋ, ਪੜ੍ਹੋ ਤੇ ਲਿਖੋਂ, ਦਿਲ ਤੋਂ ਕੋਈ ਆਪਣੇ ਵਿਰਸਾ ਨੂੰ ਪਿਆਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਦਾ ਅਤੇ ਤਿਆਰ ਹੈ ਇਕੱਲੇ ਯੂ.ਕੇ ਵਿੱਚ ਮੇਜ਼ਬਾਨ ਨਾਲ਼ ਇੱਕ ਕਰਨਾ ( ਜਿਹੜੀ ਚੰਗੀ ਗੱਲ ਹੈ) ਪਰ ਆਪਣੀ ਮਾਂ-ਬੋਲ਼ੀ ਉਜਾੜਣ ਨੂੰ। ਜੋ ਕੁੱਝ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਨੂੰ ਇੱਕ ਦੂਜੇ ਤੋਂ ਵਾਂਝਾ ਕਰ ਦਾ ( ਧਰਮ ਮਜ਼੍ਹਬ, ਜਾਤਪਾਤ) ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਕਾਇਮ ਰੱਖਣ ਤਿਆਰ ਹਨ। ਵਾਵਾ ਬਾਰਹਲੇ ਪੰਜਾਬੀਓੰ, ਚੰਗੀ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਪੈਰਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਕੁਹਾੜੀ ਮਾਰਨ ਤਿਆਰ ਹਨ! ਕੱਲ੍ਹ ਤੁਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਨਾ। ਜੋ ਬਾਹਰਵਾਰਸ ਨੇ ਕਰਨਾ ਹੀ ਹੈ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਤਾਂ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਖ਼ੁਦ ਹੀ ਤੇਜ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ!
ਪੱਕੀ ਗੱਲ ਹੈ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਬੱਚਿਆ ਨਾਲ਼ ਸਿਰਫ਼ ਇੰਗਲਿਸ਼ ਬੋਲ਼ ਰਹੇ ਨੇ ਅਤੇ ਜ਼ਬਰਦਾਸਤੀ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਘਰ 'ਚ ਪੜ੍ਹਣਾ ਲਿਖਣਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਿੱਖਾ ਰਹੇ! ਮਤਲਬ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਵਿੱਚ! ਬੋਲ਼ ਕੇ ਕੁਝ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋਣਾ। ਜਿਹੜੀ ਕੌਮ ਜ਼ੁਬਾਨ ਕਿਤਾਬਾਂ'ਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਰ ਦੀ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਜ਼ੁਬਾਨ ਕੱਲ੍ਹੋਂ ਮਰਦੀ। ਇਹ ਜੰਮਾ ਨਾ ਕਿ ਗੁਰਦਵਾਰਾ ਦਾ ਹੈ , ਨਾ ਕੇ ਸਕੂਲਾਂ ਦਾ। ਸਿਰਫ਼ ਮਾਂ-ਪਿਓ ਦਾ!

Look at the Urdu intake compared to other   Indian languages 

2 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

They love materialism much more. 

sadly that may just be it

1 hour ago, Premi said:

What happened to make the numbers high in 2009?

am surprised so few A Levels taken despite Sikh schools being numerous now. I would have thought they make it compulsory and even take them 1-2 years or more earlier than 17-18

Yeah I don't know I wondered that. I also don't get it, If there are 700,000 Indian Punjabis ( Forget Lendha punjab for these purposes as they sit urdu) and 423K claim to speak Punjabi at home there should be thousands taking GCSE and hundreds taking A level and yes your point of the Punjabi schools makes it a mystery?

Maybe people lie that they speak Punjabi at home with kids?

Punjabi Sci Group

What do you think? Good idea?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=721JQ38D_gA

ਜੇ ਹੋਰ ਕਿਸੇ ਨੇ ਮਾਫ਼ੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਮੰਗਣੀ ਜਾਂ ਦੇਣੀ ਮਸ਼ਹੂਰ ਅਦੀਬਾਂ ,ਕਲਾਕਾਰਾਂ ਤੇ ਅਦਾਕਾਰਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਟੀ਼ ਵੀ ਕੈਮਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਸਾਹਮਣੇ ਇਹ ਕੰਮ ਕਰਨਾ ਚਾਹੀਦਾ ਸੋ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਕਦਮ ਚੁੱਕ ਹੋ ਸੱਕੇ। ਇੰਝ ਹੀ ਚੁਰਾਸੀ ਬਾਰੇ ਵੀ ਹੋਣਾ ਚਾਹੀਦਾ ਹੈ