newAgeSikh

, je tu clean shaven hain taan singh kahda hoya .

koi sharam hya hai koi ke nahi ?

maainoyea , this is a sikh forum !!!!

no anti -sikh views are gonna be accepted .

You are not sikh by just keeping long hair or beards.

You Sikh if you follow Gurbani.

I'll again reiterate that there is no reference to Kepping Hairs or Beards in SGGS.

You just make some one NON-SIKH because he doesn't support hairs as there are more than 80% Sikhs those who don't support all 5 K's.

To remind you that only 20% of Sikhs are AmritDhari and you consider that as minority.

Hey can a hindu girl or guy get married into a skih family?

Are the clean shaven still hindus or they are sikhs?

I have got a hindu friend whose girlfriend is a sikh girl, do you think it will be a problem when it comes to marriage? Will the parents object?

Hey, it is not an issue at all.

Marriage between Hindu and Sikh is seamless. If you look at Sikh famillies in India, 30% of them are mixed with Hindus.

In any case Religion should not come to picture during a marriage.

Marriage is a bond between Souls and not bodies.

Religion is man made.

When a child is born he/she is not born as Sikh, Hindu, Muslim or any other religion but he/she gets his religion from the family in which he is born.

So that means religion needs to be praticed by human in the family they belong. Two humans from different families will have different religion and that should not interfere with the marriage as it is between two human souls.

Personally, i think new age Sikh isnt even Sikh but someone from a different faith hiding behind his user name, his theory is a common one which muslims try to argue, but we heard it all before. What is for sure was that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaaj was Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Your theory does not make sense, please dont make a mockery out of the 5K's.

That is jumping to conclusion without any sound reasoning.

I don't need to prove to you what I am.

But I certainly not dumb like you. I just try to find my own path. I think I'm lost as till I was child I didn't have means to know or read about Guru's except what I was taught by my parents or from Gurudwara.

After practicing blindly I now realize why I'm doing what I'm doing and trying to find answers to my curiosities.

I've seen everyone I talked to in person or on computer has always shown this concern. Why cann't I get straight answers instead of blind statements.

If I'm not a Sikh then it doesn't make any sense to be looking for answers to all these because then I won't care.

I'm looking for these answers so that I can satisfy myself. I don't wear Pugg or keep beard as I'm unable to find any support for these in the Gurbani.

But I won't be able to convince my family in India so trying to look for answers.

But the more I look the more I feel that there is no relevance to these in the Gurbani.

If you can help find some answers well and Good otherwise I'll be the lone searcher

think he would take a,b, then e.

e. repeat vedic mantras till the mugger is struck down by a spaceship piloted by a drink driver

I don't know what will happen if this situation arise with me but it seems that it happened to you recently, so your were able to narrate so seamlessly.

Just to mention that I keep a licensed 'Bersa Thunder .380 ACP' and may be able to use it if need be.

But before you were able to swing your Unlicensed 6" Kirpan, you might be left for your hell abode.

No Taker yet???

Then at least help by letting me know if there are any rules while reading the Online swaroop of SGGS.

1. Do we need to take shoes off.

2. Do we need to put something on the head if pugg is not worn.

3. Is Sitting on the chair allowed while reading.

Or let us poll whether or not the Online SGGS is considered a Swaroop of SGGS.

I've a random number generator that gives me a page number between 1 and 1430.

Now every morning at my work, I generate a random number and read the first Slok of that page online.

Does this constitute Prakash similar to one on your home SGGS?

Since I may or maynot take the evening Valk (slok) by the similar random number path, Does this constitute that Sukhason has not been performed on my online SGGS?

So my online swaroop of SGGS doesn't reitre for the day. Is it ok?

52 Hukams of Guru Gobind Singh : http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...light=52+hukams

14) Anand Viah bina grahist nahi karna - Do not start married life without Anand Karaj (Sikh ceremony of marriage). ( so u gotta marry a Sikh! or marry the Sikh way? if your spouse doesnt agree, too bad )

38 ) Sir munae noo kanaiaa nahi daeni. Uos ghar daevni jithae Akal Purukh di sikhi ha, jo karzaai naa hovae, bhalae subhaa da hovae, bibaeki atae gyanvaan hovae - Do not given a daughter's hand to a clean shaven. Give her hand in a house where God's Sikhi exists, where the household is not in debt, is of a good nature, is disciplined and knowledgable.

That's why I think it didn't make it to the SGGS.

It bring me close one more step that Philosphy of Sikhism changed mid way. If what you have put here is correct then I think this is not part of Sikhism.

Sikhism don't advocate discrimination.

By saying or rather ordering not to marry your daughter to a non-Sikh is discrimination and I think we should all speak against it.

a sikh boy should marry only a sikh girl . that's the hukam of guru ji .

if the muslim girl takes amrit and becomes sikh , then the sikh boy can marry her .

if she does not converts, stay away from her . ( sikho beware from turks and turkanis )

Where this Hukum is coming from???

Don't just make up your Hukum's or distort Sikhism.

Sikhism no way prevent any of the community member to marry anyone outside the SIKH community.

You don't have to give up Sikhism to marry a non-Sikh similarly a non-Sikh won't have to become Sikh to marry a Sikh.

can a muslim girl marry a sikh boy with out having to convert?

Why not?? and Why you need to convert?

In any marriage One partner doesn't need to be convert to other partners religion. You are marrying the person not the religion.

If during the course of the marriage you feel like becoming Sikh then you go ahead do so.

But if there are conditions in the marriage for one to convert to another spouse religion then that marriage won't succeed.

All the best to you and your would be!!!

Also Missed another point:

How many time do you fall for a Burka Girl???

So it is same with a Boy with Turban???

The notion here is that a Boy with Turban and Beard convey 'Arthodox'.

Until or Unless you are obssessed you won't have these.

That will stop anyone. I won't go after a girl supporting Burka or even Salwar Kammeez so Why will a girl go for a Boy with turban and Beard.

Admin's Note: You gettin your first warning by making an stupid post which hurt emotions of other members on this site. There are 3 warnings in total. 1st warning is given to you and 2 more to go after that you are banned from this site.

Why do we keep going back to this thread if most of us have already determined that it doesn't matter, that in the end, you'll end up being with the person that you're meant to be with... Why????

I think it does matter as 'Romance and Pugg' doesn't go hand in hand.

Top on it the beared will Kill the passion too.

So be practical, As The saying goes and a song 'Girls just wana have fun'.

So how can they have fun with a Pugg and Beard. It does kill it.

My personal experience that if a girl is looking for fun then she will rule out a Pugg and Beard but may be if she is looking for a LTR she may consider one.

But then it means that most people with Pugg and Beard will get a Second Hand Girl than a First Hand One.

"sochai soch na hova-ee jay sochee lakh vaar" Your Knowledge will not sprout from thinking or your theories, but from Grace. Grace which is the by-product of Love. For Love no theories are required.

I think you forgot the next line:

chupai chup na hova-ee jay laa-ay rahaa liv taar.

By remaining silent, peace cannot be obtained because if you are restless you should ask questions and should not keep silent.

Thanx g-singh:

It now does make some sense.

I'll now try to decipher the meaning in light of this knowledge that the idea here is to depict all the Raags in which the whole Gurbani has been compiled.

I think it is very appropriate of the Guruji to present the details of the Raags in Raag Maala.

why are you so bent on finding inconsistencies within the SGGS, if you continue to do as such, i think it may mean that you are trying to find deliberate faults within the SGGS in order to demean it...

Why are we 'Sikhs' are so vulnerable to criticisim?

I've no intention of finding faults, instead I'm trying to learn.

Previously I used to recite only, without actually learning to know what everything means.

Now I try to learn what it all means and how I can make use of it. Since when you try go deep into something you can start spotting the litlle things that pop up as question from curiosity and from the urge to understand the details.

So the goal here is to grasp more by knowing more.

Motto: Knowledge is Power otherwise I would have remain 15 year old reciting the prayers without ever trying to find the meaning of the word I used to say.

Ignorant about the debate but here what I was looking for:

"When I read Raag Maala, I don't get connected to it. My curiosity is whether or not it was there to begin with, Does it belogn there?"

"if it does belong there, Can someone convey the significance of it?

Also Pheena Veerji,

Slok Mahala 9 has 57 Sloks but only the 57th doesn't have 'NANAK' in it.

In my feeling there is more to just the coincidence that the 57th Slok doesn't contain 'NANK' in it.

I very well know what are you trying to say.

I was just rying to point to a litle inconsistency, there have to be some theory behind it that we will have to find.

But then how can you explain the Raag Maalaa Page 1429 -1430. It doesn't have 'NANAK' in it at all.

I was never able to find a clue to why it belongs in SGGS to begin with what purpose does it serves. If you go through the translation you can enlighten me if you find anything worth discussing.

I never understood the significance of the "raag maalaa pag 1429 - 1430".

If you go through the translation it will describes some people with no seemingless connection to the Sikh community.

Can some one enlighten me on the significance of this? Why it is there and what it adds to SGGS.

i can't say anything becus i m moorakh . but with my malin budhi i think nanak pad was used by Guru Sahiban at the end of every shabad and as a mohar .

Thats what my feeling was also but it is not true. Thats why I say to Koj more you will surprised to find things we need to understand more and find out the reasoning, there might lies some eternal truth waiting to be explored.

e.g.

raam naam ur mai gahi-o jaa kai sam nahee ko-ay

jih simrat sankat mitai daras tuhaaro ho-ay.

Means most likely:

I have enshrined the 'RAM' {What ever meaning you want to associate to it} Name within my heart; there is nothing equal to it. Meditating in remembrance on it, my troubles are taken away; I have received the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan

This doesn't end with 'Nanak' Stamp. So it baffle me with respect to its source.

We all are moorakh bande . Gurbani is like a very vast ocean whose end we cannot achieve by our malin budhi .

These answers you can only find either from the Guru Himself or some pooran brahmgyani mahapurakh

How can we capture gurbani(ocean) in our own little pots(kalyugi minded thinking) ??

Thanx for reminding me but I very well know as Guru ji himself wrote

"Main Murakh tum Chatoor Sainee..."

but is there nay thing wrong in searching. I might not have read many of the shabads which I get to now after starting the quest because I have a goal to find what is disturbing me. It helps me go back to SGGS and read in depth trying to find meaning.

Jaap without knowing the meaning I used to do when I was a child. I used to say Japji Sahib without reading but if someone used to intrupt me I used to get lost becuase I never knew the meaning of the single word. I just used to do becuase my parent taught so.

But I don't want to do that to my children. I want them to know what it is what it means.

Knowledge is power and I think everyone tries to Khoj something in the SGGS so that they will have the quest to understand it.

What about Krishna, was he a Mythological Character as well? If so then the whole of MahaBharat is a Myth? Am i correct so far?

Yes, true both Ram and Krishna are mythological characters. I have not come across any historical evidence of either Ramayan or Maharbharat.

What you mean it will make more sense to you if....., it seems you are trying to Mold Gurbani to how it wuold make sense to you and not molding yourself to what gurbani is. If that is your approach to this, then surely you are not using the right methods.

It is my mind when I read Slok Mahal 9 it always hit me that if Guru Teg Bhadar wrote these then why the use of 'RAM' as 'GOD', he was the ninth Guru must have been seasoned with Guru's methodology of using 'NANAK' in most of the Shabads.

I think these may make more sense to me if I can understand what promted Guru Teg Bhadar to use 'RAM'

Are you with me??

We cannot say guru should have written that or something else . we cannot judge our guru's works

thanx Karmjeet Virji, but you are taking me totally wrong.

I'm NOT trying to say why Guru ji or Bhagats have used the word 'RAM' but I have raised objection to the translation of the word 'RAM' to 'LORD' which is not done by Guru's but some AmritDhari Sikhs (Why I call it that way) because it seems to me that if you are not 'AmritDhari' the Sikh community won't accept your thesis or work on it.

SO my quest presntly to understand the shabads including the word 'RAM' and to know the Guru's or Bhagats who have known tobe written it and understand the Physchy to get to the answer ''WHY????'

Am I doing anything wrong here??

you seem to be quite the hypocrite. you talk about peace, patience, equality and tolerance.

fair enough to your quest. only thing is u talk bs, such as equating amritdharis to brahmins etc. u may have come across amritdharis who are narrow minded but u seem to make a point of labelling all amritdahris as such. i can point out to you that i am not amritdhari and know many people who are, and almost all of them are decent human beings. yet u seem to insist on labelling them all. why? perhaps it hides an ulterior motive of trying to malign khalsa sikhs in general.

Thanx for your response Sukhi_v and palm_w1 Veer ji's.

Let me make one thing clear I don't have any motive other than to learn more about Sikh community and to improve the community of the problems I feel it has so as to provide my future generation a community I think I belong too and would love to be a part of it.

Let me put as question the following:

-- 'Can a non AmritDhari Sikh become a Gurdwara priest'

If not then whats the difference between that 'AmritDhari Sikh and Brahmin in Hindu society'.

-- 'Can a Sahjdhari Sikh perform Kirtan at Darbar Sahib, Amritsar'

If not then whats the difference between a Sahjdhari Sikh and Shudra in ancient Hindu society as in today's Hindu society Shudras are allowed to go into the temples.

I don't talk BS but it seem you do.

A community cannot grow beyond these pit falls if people like me won't question. Might is right seems to be the motto now a days in Sikh community. Whether you take up the election to Gurudwara's board or Akal Takhat.

All guroo's and bhagats were one akaal purkh di jot. Please do not defferntiate between Guru's and Bhagats!

Bhai N30 Veerji,

You are becoming very obstinate.

If you don't want to uderstand the Bani then be it so.

But why are you denying me an oppertunity to understand it more.

I could do everythnig myself if I have the time but I know I can get some information here fast.

Also discussion is like food for my brain. As my stomach wants food, my brain do want some healthy discussion.

It is a known fact that SGGS contains bani of not only Guru's but Bhagats and Sufi sants too. You can easily find information stating the number of verses or shabad contibuted by each Guru and Bhagat. then why not read those in the light of knowledge about the Guru and Bhagat who wrote as it will convey the nature and issue of the time.

My theory is with time and Guru or Bhagat the Bani should change and I want to understand the change and to understand the common minimum charchter that is same and why the Shabad is placed where it isplaced and so on.

I picked this one particular word 'RAM' as this can give me an insight to the mind of Guru's and Bhagats and may enlighten me with more knowledge respect to compilation of SGGS.

So please correct me if im wrong...but Im getting the feelign that you are allergic to the word RAM used by the Gurus when talking about God when in your views they should have used the words, Waheguru, Nanak and so forth? Am i correct so far?

I'm not allergic to word 'RAM' but I'm unable to make sense why someone will use it if the whole notion was to move away from the Mythological Character as God.

Also I'm just trying to understand the Bani by understanding the state of mind of the Guru or Bhagat who wrote it.

It iwll make more sense to me if Bhagat Kabir wrote all the shabd with 'RAM' in it because in my view he was not preaching anything against the praying to Mythological Characters but why will Guru Nank or other Guru will use it.

I've not come across any of the Guru Nanak's scripture that uses the word 'RAM' as GOD. Has anyone have an example of First Guru Nanak using it as GOD.