deepThinkerSikh

Well I disagree with you, not only is it better than having no weapon at all, also you'd be surprised how scared some people are of it.

That is absolutely wrong to do:

Scaring people is not what Sikhisim teaches. Sikhism want to spread brotherhood.

Lets go over a situation:

If a child go to School with Gatra wale Kirpan, how he will be able to make any friends. He is transmitting animity. He is saying I don't trust any one of you so that is why I'm keeping a big sword with me all the time. How anyone will be willing to mingle with anyone who exhibits hate.

Let me again remind you that Guru ji said:

Hum Nahi Changee bura Nahi Koi

deeper thinker

check da 51 hukams of guru gobind singh ji, it says you should only marry a sikh if you is sikh yahself

and guru amardass ji i think also said you must only marry a gurmukh and not a manmukh which also means you must marry a sikh, and why would the guru makes us born in a sikh family.........to marry a non sikh?

anyway if ju believe its ok then carry on yaar

I did check the so called Hukamnama. That is what I did not like to begin with.

I can't think that a Sikh Guru can be discriminative.

Since I can quote form the Gurbani:

Koi Bole Ram Ram; Koi Khudai; Koi Sewe Gusaian; Koi Allay Allay;

Karan..

Karen Karim; Kirpa Dhar Rahim Rahim.

Thats what my point is why to follow something blindly. Sikhism has embraced all religions into the SGGS then why will Sikh discriminates when it comes to marriage.

Guru Arjun Dev ji created Harmandir with doors on Four sides to iterate on the Philosphy of Sikhism that its doors are always open to people of any religion but you are trying to say that Guru Gobind Singh ji who is the same Jot of Guru Nanak and Guru Arjun might have said that

"A Sikh should not marry a non Sikh"

I've my doubts on the Hukamnama to be from the Guru, as it may be form panth ke new leaders.

I would request that you rethink your decision. His deceitful ways should not be welcomed, much less rewarded. His venom against Sikhi should not be tolerated and will be hurtful to visitors of this forum. Do you think that he has anything positive to contribute to this forum?

See if my intentions were to harm the site or do any propaganda I could have changed the IP adrress itself.

I don't know why you have so much problem with my questioning. I seems valid to me. We don't have to fight. We can do discussion based on Gurbani.

This way I get to understand Gurbani more as in order to give you example from Gurbani I've to read in depth and find the meaning of the Shabads.

I've realized if you discuss with others Gurbani you will actually understand it and it willbe more benficial to you.

The only diferences I've with you is to whether or not it is important to have 5 K's. I'm not against it but I'm just trying to find out if someone doesn't support it will he not be a Sikh. Since I consider my religion to be Sikh my parent religion is Sikh and so do my children.

What I'm trying to understand is good Sikh?

An AmritDhari Sikh with shastar and un·furled beard like Bhindranwla

or

A humble non AmritDhari Guru Sikh like PrimeMinister Manmohan Singh.

LOL deepthinkersikh...

at first he was like "Who is newage??? N30 Singh Ji"

after he found out n3o knew, he said "I was surprised why it took so long."

ya buddy... im sure...

See, All messages come with a source IP address so I thought banning an account means banning the IP address but since it was not the case so I thought that the IP address may not being filtereda t all, so the comment why it took so long.

on ur case about not haveing to carry arms at all times. was it not Guru Gobind Singh Ji that sed "dnt ocme to me without ur weapons n uncut hair. well or sumthing like that.

I think there is no need to carry any arms around in today's word. We should concentrate on Guru's Gurbani:

Guru Arjun Dev ji Said on Page 1299 of SGGS:

bisar ga-ee sabh taat paraa-ee

jab tay saaDhsangat mohi paa-ee

naa ko bairee nahee bigaanaa sagal sang ham ka-o ban aa-ee

jo parabh keeno so bhal maani-o ayh sumat saaDhoo tay paa-ee

sabh meh rav rahi-aa parabh aykai paykh paykh naanak bigsaa-ee

This shabad is very self explanantory.

I think we should follow the Gurubani. Keeping Kirpan may not bring peace but bringing yourself to Sad Sangat will.

saas saas simrahu gobind

man antar kee utrai chind

If you think by just doing Nitnam; you are done then that is not the case.

It is true by just completeing the repition of something, you have mugged so hard that you don't even realize what you say, is not fulfilling.

The concept is to remeber Wheguru with ever Swaas, which is done when you actually do good deeds, trying to find the meaning of things.

Reciting won't buy you much. I think it is better to go through Sukhmani Sahib one Shabad at a time and understand the meaning and apply it to your personal life is much more important and fruitfull.

People have not understood the Mool Mantra yet and stuck in the definition of 'Sargun' and 'Nirgun'.

Hence my feeling is to do a little with understanding is more fruitfull then doing whole without actually even remebering what to say.

Also Page 98 Guru Arjun Dev ji states:

nirgun sargun har har mayraa ko-ee hai jee-o aan milaavai jee-o.

Waheguru (GOD) is both absolute and related, unmanifest and manifest; is there anyone who can come and unite me with Him?

Nirgun(non-existence) which is akaal purkh

Sargun( Human form) which is akaal purkh in human form.

I think Gurbani iterates:

God is SARGUN (attribute full) as well as NIRGUN (Absolute), he cannot be seen with human eyes but HE is omnipresent, hence SARGUN.

God is in everone (omnipresent, hence SARGUN) so is there in GURU too but still Gurbani says

Guru is not GOD.

In the whole of Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib, the Gurus have explained the concept of God as contained in the Mool Mantra. Impersonal (Nirgun) and Personal (Sargun) character of God has been beautifully defined in the teachings.

The opening sentence of Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib called Mool Mantra (Preamble of Japji) outlines the definition of God but only One God

There is but One God He is the Eternal Truth

The Creator, All-Pervading Divine Spirit

Unfearful, Without hate and enmity

Immortal Entity, Unborn, Self-Existent, and

He is realized by His Own Grace.

Meditate upon

Who was True before the Creation

Who was True in the beginning of the Creation

Who is True now, and

O Nanak, Who shall be True for Ever.

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newAgeSikh [ 49 Posts ]

deepThinkerSikh [ 5 Posts ]

I was surprised why it took so long. Thanx for letting me stay. I really don't have any ill intentions.

I just want to be part of some discussions that come to my mind.

Guru is sargun saroop of vahiguroo.. you quote a lot from gurbani newage... why dont you search for sargun and nirgun concept in sggs ji?

Who is newage???

N30 Singh Ji

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

that's a very interesting thing to say. and i agree with you... would you like to share your views on how sikh philosophy began changing after the first 5 gurus and explain why you think it happened and how it relates to being a sikh today?

this isn't a challenge. i sincerely would like to know what you think about it...

I don't think the Philosphy of Sikhism took any shift after the 5th Guru. All the Gurus were one Jot and we should respect them so.

I think Sikh Gurus have shown that changign time require changing strategies. The time or environment before the 5th Guru was not that violent but with Aurongjeb on Delhi Takht life was not easy. So Gurus showed us the path to take up arms against the Crusaders.

This in no way against the Sikhism as it teaches to remain in love with the environment but should take up arms to help the weak.

But what we need to see is that do we need to change again with the changing times. There are no more Aurangjebs and no more oppress. So is there a need to take up arms.

Our Gurus took the path of Sprituisim when the times were peaceful and took the swaroop of fierce fighters when the times were rough.

Now we are back to peaceful times do we need to change to path to sprituism from fightisim is the right Question.

Guru ji is not a BOOK . HE IS THE SARGUN SAROOP of GOD . although u can't see it .

i feel sorry for guys like u who don't even know WHO is GURU GRANTH SAHIB .

GURU GRANTH SAHIB = GOD

belive it or not .

I think Karamjit couldn't bring it out properly.

It is not the book SGGS is guru but the 'Gurbani' i.e the Guru's Bani or Vichar are the Guru.

SO if the Guru's Vichar is in a small Gutka(Book) then that need to be treated with respect too.

Since Guru Arjun Dev ji compiled all the Guru's Bani in SGGS and Guru Gobind Singh ji appointed the SGGS as the next Guru, the SGGS has become the Guru for Sikhs ot follow.

A Guru is not a GOD but a way to achieve GOD.

so the SGGS is a way to achieve GOD for SIKHs.

Hence the conclusion is SGGS is not a BOOK but is a GURU and should be respected as such.

Another thing a GURU is not GOD but a way to GOD.

I think Gurbani is soul of Sikh Religion. If you don't respect Guru Ki Bani, you are no Sikh.

A GurSikh needs to repsect Gurbani but that doesn't mean that you need to burden yourself with reciting it 24 hours.

For a Gursikh a family/community is as important as Guru or Gurbani.

You need to balance out everything.

hindus and muslims marrying in Sikh families cause confusion

why would a sikh marry a non sikh when a non sikhs lifestyle does not meet and deosnt have the understanding of being a Sikh

loving someone is not as important as loving for the True Guru and your

brothers and sisters in the khalsa panth

it makes me feel sick, , the future child, going to a church, a mosque a hindu temple and a gurdwara

jumbled up people!

I'm not sure who's jumbled up here AmrikSingh Ji. Have you gone thru the four Laavaa in SGGS.

Let me Quote One:

Hari pahilaree laav...: In the first round of the marriage ceremony, the Lord

sets out His Instructions for performing the daily duties of married life. Take this

Baanee as the Brahmaa's Vedas. By uttering this Baanee, embrace the righteous

conduct and renounce sinful actions. Embrace the righteous conduct of

Dharma, contemplate the Divine Name; take this as the teaching of the Simritis.

Perform the Naam-Simran (meditation) as instructed by the Perfect True Guru, and all

your sins and misdeeds will be dispelled. By great good fortune, celestial Bliss is attained,

and the Divine Name seems sweet to the mind. Servant Nanak proclaims that, by this

first round of the marriage ceremony, the marriage ceremony has begun

You can go through the rest of the three Laavaa too but nowhere you will find that a Sikh cannot marry a non Sikh.

You need to make sure that you are abide by the Guru's whether or not your partner is Sikh.