SikhWannaBe

So let me be clear, as I stand today I am neither Sikh nor a member of Khalsa. If this is true my mom is gonna hurt someone.

Your definition of Sikh requires one to believe in all 10 gurus. I believe in the existence of these gurus but I question the baptism procedure created by the 10th guru, does that mean that I don't believe in the gurus?

Also what part can a nirguru play in the Sikh society? The way I see it I can provide donations in support of the faith but I cannot be an active member in the temple teachings or policy making? Doesn't that sound contradictory to what Guru Nanak was trying to create. You could call the hierarchy similar to a caste system.

You've go the Khalsa on top, followed by the Sikhs, followed by the Nirgurus.

So where does a newborn child fill into the hierarchy? Is he/she a nirguru because they know nothing and hasn't been baptized?

More importantly where do you my brothers and sisters place me? Do you consider me less than you for not being baptized?

I am happy to read anything you have read and attend any service that might bring enlightenment but I refuse to be baptized. Does that really make us that different?

I understand the definitions that you have provided but it is us mortals that are to interpret them. So what do you make of me and others like me?

I am shocked to learn of the word 'NIRGURU' since I hated learning the word 'GOY' and 'INFIDEL', which mean the same thing for Judaism and Islam respectively. I thought we were different but I guess not.

P.S. this is becoming a really good break from studying. And please don't be offended by anything I say I am just learning.

If we Sikhs don't fullfill our mission of service to humanity by feeding the hungry, protecting weak and educating the masses we have failed.

I couldn't agree with you more, I just think there are ways in which a person like myself can accomplish just that without keeping my hair.

Because of my Sikh upbringing I have found myself leaning towards social justice issues. This has ultimately led to my seeking a law degree, which despite popular belief is a powerful tool to in creating widespread policy change. I am lucky to have found others in law school that are like minded and therefore we work together in trying to create change. It is when we sit together after a successful rally or protest that we talk about why we are doing what we do. It is only at this time do I declare that I am Sikh and it is my mission to serve humanity. The credibility gained by this approach has led to my colleagues asking more and more questions.

The dilemna I have is when trying to reconcile my ideals with the local congregation. How can I look my colleagues in the face and say now if you wished to learn more and become like us Sikhs all you have to do is, never cut your hair, wear a specific type of underwear, put on a steel bracelet, carry a comb ... oh and carry a dagger.

The two approaches just don't fit, so as you say neo-sikhs have destroyed the integrity of what Guru Nanak was trying to achieve.

Charn

For a sikh , to say that 5k's are not important , is a very foolish thing to say .

Could you elaborate a little further on why my question or statement is foolish! You have not been able to answer it but merely sling mud in my direction. How godly is that?

Let me be clear, I am not trying to insult anyone that is taking the path of Sikhi, I am humbled by your courage to take such a path. My only point is, does it need to be the path that you describe?

You and other posters have not answered the question accept to say blindly follow and everything will be answered. My mother used a similar type of approach in parenting. "You will undstand when you are a teenager" You will understand when you're an adult" You will understand when you''re a father". Well I became all of those things and I still don't understand my Mother's point of view but of course her answer these days is "you will understand when you're my age". Obviously, I am never going to be worthy of giving my opinion since she will pass on before I reach her age. It is a very effective argument style and you are all using a similar one by saying I will understand when I reach your level.

Please give people a little more credit, I am looking to become a member of your community. When you shut people like me out, you shut out millions just like me. This is exactly why I think the faith must continue to adapt.

Why not have readings in temple in English? Why not have everyone seated comfortably so they can pay attention rather than count the seconds till it is over? Why not advertise the fact that we feed everyone and eliminate the homeless problems in our cities? Why do we fight over whether langar should eaten while on the floor or at a table? Why not be an innovative faith as Guru Nanak intended it?

So this time before you scholars respond please realize that you are responding to more than myself but the countless others that think like

me.

Charn Gill

Why would i become slave to them(modern soceity) ??? I would rather stand up firm in my beleif than giving up into social pressures and this modern soceity.

Most of the times our youths blame it all on modern soceities and peer pressures when they put razor on their face and head but not even once blame it to their own insecurity of beleifs.

G'day Mate!

I think there is something quite telling about your response. Firstly, you assume that I am putting a negative spin on participating in the 5Ks. I didn't say anything of the sort but rather tried to bring to your attention that difference of any kind can have severe ramifications.

Secondly, you state that you do not want to succumb to the pressures of today's modern society like those that take up the razor. But aren't you succumbing to the peer pressure of a different kind, one that is imposed by the Tenth guru over 300 years ago.

Guru Nanak created his teachings because he was unhappy with the society of his time. Why would we stagnate the growth of our faith to not be able to address the issues of today's society?

Looking at some of the other threads in the forum, it becomes quite apparent that there are many trying bring their lifestyles within the teachings of sikhism but feel alienated by those insist on rituals.

I despise your comments that insinuate those that cut their hair are insecure, you make it diffcult to continue an important discussion. There are a host of other reasons for not keeping your hair and frankly not many that advocate for keeping it other than blind faith. The requirement of blind faith being the most powerful tool to overcome the ignorant.

Yours insecurely

Charn Gill

I just posted in the thread about whether hair cutting is permitted by the holy book but I think my comments are a little off topic and deserve their own debate.

I apologize if this has been debated in the past but I am new to the forum and in the middle of a exams with no time to search the archives.

So my question again is do you believe the 5Ks are stunting the growth of Sikhism?

Personally, I believe any rituals are the death of our faith since we can no longer change and adapt to the modern and ever changing social context. But heck that is only my opinion.

Charn Gill

My comments are my first in this forum and may in fact be a little off topic but I believe still relevant.

Why would someone want to know the answer to whether cutting of the hair is explicitly denied in the holy book?

I believe it stems from the fact that to keep one's hair outside of the Punjab involves countless sacrifices that were not considered by Guru Gobind Singh. How is Sikhism going to grow when it encompasses rituals that can be likened to the knocking on doors by Jehovah's witnesses or the wearing of the kipa by orthodox Jews.

Our faith has the capacity to reach many but is stagnated by the 5Ks and any other rituals that the elders try to engrain in what was a scientific and forward thinking faith.

As you may have guessed I do not keep my hair but I have many friends who do.

Some of these friends are devout and I bow to their committment to their ideals but then on the other hand I have encountered many that maintaint the 5ks but are foul humans that do nothing but give the faith a negative image. My point being that keeping of the hair will not make one more or less devout. It is your mind that must be pure. So for those of you that think I am less devout for cutting my hair please realize the desctructive nature of your comments. Guru Nanak wished for an inclusive faith, we have created a different animal entirely.

Charn Gill