Sukhraj

If the above link for Bandagi Nama doesn't work for you (it didn't for me), try this: http://www.gurmat.info/sms/smspublications/Bandgi%20Nama.pdf

Amardeep,

First off congratulations for recognising that your mind is separate from your true self. You've got to start somewhere - 20 seconds isn't bad.

Can you read Gurmukhi? If so, I recommend you read Sant Isher Singh Ji's diary "Ishwar Amolak Lal" at the link below. I've tried many many different ways of Simran but this works best for me. Everyone starts at different stages depending on previous kamaii etc so we have to find what works for us. ( The diary is long but read the whole thing if you're serious)

Before starting simran, ALWAYS do Ardas for Prema bhagti and Ik munn, Ik chit.

For concentration (Ik Munn Ik Chit), you MUST have 100% faith that you are on the right path. This where 'comparative religion' can be a hindrance - your munn doesn't know which boat to take. Also, concentration increases slowly, as you wash away the mal from the mind by reading Gurbani (and then following it!), doing sewa and of course, simran.

Sewa really helps. Also, if you spend all day arguing about something, you can rest assured that when you sit for simran, your mind will go back to the arguments etc. This applies to everything elso as well, which is why it's good to try to keep doing simran throughout the day.

Guru Ji says " Kaljug Meh Kirtan Pardhaana" - the mind is attracted to music and 'tiks' easily during kirtan. You can try putting on a kirtan cd and doing simran by losing yourself in the kirtan.

I could go on and on but don't have time right now - how about starting another thread just for sharing Simran techniques and experiences?

The diary can be downladed from here: (choose "Iswratmak Amulaya Lal) http://www.rarasahib.com/downloads.htm

OR from here:

http://www.bhorasahib.com/Diary.htm

Of course. This stuff is not secret despite that you probably wish it was. There is one organisation that trains sikhs around the UK once a week in how to stab, maim, hate Muslims, rape Muslim women with a boar's tooth and crap like that. We both know the organisation I'm referring to here.

I'm no fan of Niddar's, but I do know there are some muslims who attend his classes. Have you been to a class, or is golestan's word now gospel?

The same golestani advertised the classes on shiachat.com some time ago - check for yourself.

Kind Regards.

a load of typical tonda cr@p

Who cares what mohammed or the quran say? This isn't an islamic forum. You repeatedly insult Guru Ji and still people reply to your trash with courtesy. Try that on an islamic forum.

You want to talk jurisprudence? Come meet me at the Inns Court near Chancery Lane and we'll talk.

Do you get gratification from insulting others? What's the matter, your parents cousins or something?

People like you are the reason for 'islamophobia'. I'd like to see you say the same things face to face rather than from behind a computer screen.

This is serious....all such incidents need to be nipped in the bud, before they become acceptable. The UK is much better for Sikhs, but is there any country where Sikhs can freely be Sikhs?

Then again, there must be a reason Maharaj Ji said 'Khalsa Karey Nit Jung...'

check out the following link for en explanation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pehlwan

How does one measure one's spiritual progress?

How can I say that Bill Gates is a very spiritual man, because he does or doesn't eat meat?

Do I develop a Spiritual indicator on my forehead which is only visible to other spiritual people?

Please answer, what does Gurbani say about this and of course general answers.

Sukhmani Sahib Ji explains what Simran leads to, Lavan da paat also lays out different stages / avastha , Guru ji gives us these and many more examples of tangible progress - just ask Him. Sant Isher Singh Ji (Rarasahib) were explaining the stages of simran to the sangat once and someone recorded it - it was posted on this site as 'Atmik Bachan' a while back, I think by Neo, but could be wrong.

I'm 5 foot 11/11.5ish. I eat tons of food, almost every two-three hours. Maintain a high protein diet. I think my nutritional side of it is fine.

Sukhraj u mentioned u took the herb Tribulus, in my class we studied that it increases ones testosterone levels, is this safe? What your experiences with it. thanks

You must be quite lean (or skinny...)at the moment judging from your height/weight, how long you been training for, and how much you gained? Don't be afraid of saying goodbye to your abs during your bulking phase - a little fat helps create an anabolic environment. I'd stay away from tribulus at your stage, stick to loads of food, milk and hard work. Creatine is ok as are mineral supps like ZMA (Zinc, Magnesium).

Stick to basic compound lifts ie Bench, squat, deadlift, rows for the core of your routine - you don't really need small isolation movements yet. It's also important to change your routine every 6 weeks or so to prevent your body adapting. Where did u get your current routine from? If it's working, fine. If not, I can send you the program I found most effective when getting started years ago - it could save u months of trial and error but is impractical if u at uni or work. There some good articles at www.elitefts.com - check them out.

ultimately, "Jin Prem Kio, Thin Hi Prabh Paiyo" .....but it's that prem, the longing to meet Maharaj that drives us to follow Maharaj's directions.

Make sure you're recovering properly between workouts and eating enough calories to build mass. How tall are you? Just asking to get an idea of your body type - makes a difference to how you should train. A good idea would be to go to a site like www.t-nation.com and do a search for "hypertrophy" - some of the best trainers/ nutritionists around post on that site, not your usual rubbish from Flex etc. There are some good programs there, and it's free. Good to see Singhs getting strong...

Shi'a , those are some preety impressive stats. If they are indeed correct and not 'internet stats', then that is extremely impressive. When you started working out were u vege or meateater? Also, i know these questions are mad irrevelant, but how much u weight?

Just wondering cause I started lifting a while ago, my stats are no where near as urs but for my weight they are decent.

About the meat stuff,

If you want to talk about Mahapursh's why forget Jathedar Baba Chet Singh Ji? A frequent jhatka eater, yet attained some serious progress (accroding to singhs around him).

I know singhs who were vege, then meat eater, then vege, they dont seem to notice any difference. I use to be vege, although I don't feel that different eating meat. If anything meat has helped me with my working out.

Cool topic, keep the posts coming. I like how u view it Sukhraj, go on experience, if u feeling better being vege, then go for it, init u get meh. But at least don't hate on the flesh eating singhs, cause it has been part of heritage, (ie. jhatka).

Started lifting years ago, using the Westside system (www.westside-barbell.com), those numbers were at about 250lbs body weight and aren't really that impressive for the gym I was training in at the time! Bench was relatively weak due to body type. I had given up meat by then but supplemented with creatine and protein shakes. I also used herbal methods (Tribulus)to keep up test levels and flaxseed oil for the joints. Also ate like mad.

Back to the topic, I think it's important to check spiritual progress the same way u chart progress in the gym, school etc. So many people just stay at one level and think nothing of it.

1. International law applies to sovereign nation. If nations don't apply it they receive sanctions. Ask Serbia about it... The Khalsa is NOT a nation see point 3.

2. Gurdwaras are places of worship. Doing kirtan, paath etc.. is worshipping God. Meditating on God's names is also worship.

3. The only time the word qaum is used by Guru Gobind Singh is when talking about the Brars. Sikhs are a distinctive religious community not a nation. There are Sikhs of all kinds of backgrounds, origins, languages and nations. Neo-Sikh tend to think of Sikhs as a nation but it doesn't make sense (no unity of language, ethnicity, origin, food etc...). One can say that Panjabis may have the status of a nation but not a religion.Sikhi is above the tribal concept of qaum.

4. Bhindranvala said he'd give the killer of the Nirankari Baba his weight in gold. Ask Bhai Ranjit Singh if he received his weight in gold. So much for:"Sant Ji acted on his words!"

-Does "International Law" apply to the USA? or China? It's a farce. Anyway, no worldly law applies to the Khalsa.

- Nation does not have to mean a geographic country. There is unity in language - Gurbani (translations just aren't the same), belief etc

- Do you know that Bhai Ranjit Singh didn't receive the gold?

Rather than just quote books that have been read etc, why not take a look at our own progress and experience? Sikhi is practical, to be lived not just studied. I believe 100% that everyone, with some Kirpa, can reach the avasthas that Gurbani and Mahapursh speak of.

There's been alot of debate about eating meat and Sikhi, so I thought I would throw in my 2 cents worth - but from personal experience rather than merely quote texts. It's not my place to judge, but how many Singhs today actually progress spiritually? Have you experienced the Atmik Ras that Gurbani speaks of, the progression of simran from the mouth to the throat, heart, etc? If not, something's wrong - it's like going to school and staying in the same class for years.

To cut a long story short, I have eaten meat in the past - from antelope to zebra. I'm not going to go into my life history, but straight to the point - a stage came where if I had eaten meat during the day, my mind wouldn't focus, would become 'ashant' and I could literally feel the 'paar', so, with guidance from a Mahapursh, I stopped. Today, if food is cooked in anger, I can feel it; unfortunately this has led to less take away pizzas.....although ardas before eating helps! Really spicy food has an effect similar to but not as bad as meat. There are other spiritual issues too - the 'Suleman tapes' make those clear.

Of course, giving up meat is not all that's needed for spiritual progress, but

from my personal experience it helps.

By the way, I powerlift as well and current PRs are: Bench - 450lbs (without a bench shirt), Squat - 703, D/Lift - 725. All natural and vegetarian.

"Converting holy sites into military functionalities is and has always been considered an offense."

according to whom? what are the bungey for?

"....In fact in international law it is considered a crime."

There is no such thing as "international law"

" Especially in Bhindranvala's case because he had no reason to do it. If he wanted to wage war on the Indian government he should have done what other generations of Sikhs did before: use the Shivallik hills. ...."

I dont't remember him ever saying or implying that he wanted to wage war against the government - he would have been arrested and charged with treason. Interestingly, Sant ji was never actually charged with anything, even when they did arrest him once, he was released.

Unlike most of the forum users, I was there (in Amritsar) at the time. The attack on Harmandir Sahib was planned well in advance of June 1984 and fortifications only began when intelligence was received supporting this point. Sikh soldiers told of training exercises involving mock-ups of Harmandir Sahib's layout.

by definition, truth is that which does not change...

however, you're right that people tend to take what they like/is easy to follow and leave the rest- e.g. it's easy to follow Maharaj's bachan in wearing 5 Ks but much harder to wake up at Amrit Vela etc

nothing there......cud u put it back up? thanks

Aade Sach Jugad Sach Hai Bhee Sach. Nanak Hoasee Bhee Sach. is a saloak. It also comes in Sukhmani Sahib. Your Babas read Sukhmani Sahib but didn't know ......

In Sukhmani Sahib, the "Bheee" is spelled differently, so the end bit of the Mool Mantr does not 'also come in Sukhmani Sahib.' I trust that everyone arguing that it is till Gurparsad has done hardcore Jaaps, Bhagti and reached the same level as Brahmgyanis who have reached somewhere and hence know 'the way'. The true meaning of Gurbani can only be known through "Anbhav", not reading loads of books.

DID U MANAGE TO GET ANY INFO ON SANTHIA SUKHRAJ? WHO IS GIANI GURDEV SINGH JI? I AM ALSO KEEN ON SANTHIA! PLZ HELP!

Giani Gurdev Singh Ji was a student of Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa - they are still around in Southall, but I can't get hold of their phone no.....

but seriously... it's something to be experienced!

maas maas kar moorak kajereh... and so forth.

kajereh??

I don't want to start a war, but I came across this Shabad by Bhagat Kabir Ji and wanted to know what people think of it ( it's the 10th shabad in "the bijak of Kabir" -

Saints, I've seen both ways.

Hindus and Muslims don't want discipline,

they want tasty food.

The Hindu keeps the eleventh-day fast

eating chestnuts and milk.

He curbs his grain but not his brain

and breaks his fast with meat.

The Turk prays daily, fasts once a year,

and crows"God! God!" like a rooster.

What heaven is reserved for people

who kill chickens in the dark?

They've cast out all desire for kindness

and compassion.

One kills with a chop, one lets the blood drop,

in both houses burns the same fire.

Turks and Hindus have one way,

the guru's made it clear.

Don't say Ram, don't say Khuda.

So says Kabir.

Guru Ji themselves defined what makes a Sikh, as did Bhai Gurdas Ji. It is too easy to forget that in its purest and simplest sense, Sikhi is a path to Waheguru. In my opinion, there is no difference between Maharaj Ji and Waheguru - so the path they revealed is sure to get you there, and it just happens to be that following this path (enrolling in Guru Ji's school - and hence wearing the uniform) means you end up looking/ thinking/ behaving differently to the rest of the world. In Kal Jug, that's hardly surprising.....

The modern defns of a Sikh are a bit different to what GUrbani and old Rehitnamey etc say - eg, Gurbani tells us: " Jo Deesay Gursikhra, tis niv niv laago bhai..." Many (from experience) modern katar "Gursikhs" will not reply to your Fateh, or not even make eye contact when they see another Singh walk by - especially if they reckon you're from another Jatha! The internal aspect has been lost to an extent from mainstream Sikhi. The external identity is meant to be a manifestation of internal qualities - if you listen to,read and most importantly, follow gurbani, you can't help but see humanity as one.

Anyway, having a distinctive identity doesn't mean that you don't see humanity as 1. No two people look the same in any case, and what about different colour skin? All different, but ultimately 1.

so much for ekta and pyar in the panth........Waheguru forgive us for what we've done to your sikhi.....

Goony!! u may not remember me, I remember the days u started training in the basement gym at imperial.......what roids u been taking?!!!lol.

U read the book super squats? also check out www..t-nation.com for honest advice on increasing your poundages. Theres a wikid article on benching big, u have to spend a lot of time searching the site tho. Also check out www.ironmind.com for good articles. U still in hounslow?

Sukh