Sardu

gurfateh sardu veer ji,

you wrote:

But really you tell me?? wasnt it bad influence of hindu soceity??

There were hertiage of sikhs who was very much attached with hindu rituals... due to influence of hindu back in guroo's time. Off course i m blaming the dumb people (sikhs) who beleive in caste system... But on my post i was aimin for the root of the problem which is influence from hindu culture.

ya..neo veere!! you are right.. u were talking about roots.. i just felt that u r just blamming it on them like i have observed many times.. may be i was in "Flow" and didn't observe from your angle.. Sorry veere!!

Lately, I became the fan of Jugraj.., the talented midfielder of Indian hockey team. Unfortunetly, he met with a road accident.. but he will fight back!!

But the fact of the matter is that when Sikhz living outside India can easily bash Sikhz living in India then why they feel bad when somebody counterz their arguementz... We should remember that If we criticise someone then we should be ready to be criticized as well...

Exactly.

Drinking is no doubt a very big problem in India and particularly in Punjab where 52% of men are drinkerz and 48% of women regularly take drinks (Which is a stagerring number...)(This reaseach was conducted by Sikh Fulwari (by Sikh Missionary College). The place where I am Putting i.e. Chandigarh... there are installed a "Thaika Sharaab Desi" at every 1.5 kmz (with fully air conditioned Ahataz/Yards). You wont beleve that there are more vehicles outside these ahataaz than in the movie theatrs. Apprently, this is also a very deep routed consipiracy to weaken the youth of Punjab, which was once the most progressing State in India.

Certainly it is. But The solution is with ourselves only. Despite of blaming others for deep consipiracy, it becomes our responsibility to get out of it and make other aware, as well.

The main drawback in present Sikh community is: dreath of people with good leadership qualities. Waheguru Waheguru Japna, Tae paraya Maal Apna is policy being followed. Panthtic committess are more about their survival rather than uplifting the lowering spirits of Sikh Community India. But isnt it the same case outside India as well...

Another very much valid point!!! I appriciate and share the same concern.

Roots are everywhere, whereever there is a good Sikh of the Guru. Sikhism is not a regional Religion... itz a Global Religion... so there is nothing to worry about your rootz Steel Bangle... Letz try to be a good Sikh of the Guru whereever we are...

..

We are simply discussing: What is the Contribution of NRI Sikhz and not playing a blame game... So let us continue with the discussion...

Where are leaderz who can represent Sikhz residing outside India. Are there any representations of NRI Sikhz in Sikh Affairs being run in India? Please Discuss.

yes Please Discuss!!

its wrong to say that NRI have not commited nothing to sikhi.. and bashing them that they are not in india and they are sittin in different countries... this is not our fault. we was born here so we more or less have little choice... and having studied and grown up here its hard to leave it all behind and migrate for the sake of stayin to our roots... :cry:

no veere!!! i (we) didn't ( never) mean to say that!! NRIs have definetly done great service to the religion and to the nation (?). No doubt on that. The whole point of me arguning here was/is that when NRIs like many of you, who are sitting pretty far from India with a very little knowledge of what exactly happening here, claim that sikhism is in deep danger in india etc etc. DOst!! This is not the CASE. The source you use to get the information is what.. a web site?? what is the authenticity? How do you cross check it? Yes, There are many problem within the relgion here, but, than, where it is not? and we generally don't discuss about those problems because we (want to )know very lillte about them. India is way way different than the countries , you guys, live in. India is not an easy place to live as compare to your developed countries.. but We live here and we live Proudly. No matter how difficult the life here, we enjoy it. One day we may have argument with hindu or muslim brother but other day we will be celebrating some festival togther, greeting each other, hugging each other. Positive side is, at least we can argue, we can raise voice.. or demand. Outside.. is that possible? where one has to go to court so that he can wear "Pagh" officially at work. Brother(s), Sister(s) and Friend(s), from outside the problems here may look BIG or serious... but for us these are not big deals.. we can and we do tackle with them easily. We didn't let the religion DIE here.. We just didn't show our concern and spoke. We have kept the religion in "Chadhi Kala".Go to any city of north India, talk to people, Sikhs has reserved the respect of being "Most hard workers" and "most lively ones" Everywhere.

I can't say anything about the Respect and Place in the scoiety earned by NRIs in Their respective countries/cities, for the reason that i am not aware. I certainly hope for a distinct reputation of sikh community in those coutries.... because after all we all are sikhs.. we leave our impression of hard work and royality where ever we go.

And When we (I) question the contribution of NRIs' contribution to sikhism it is out of the quest to know what we don't know? Its certainly not finer pointing without full information or half information received through web-site or other means. We actually want to know what is the position/ respect/recognization we sikhs have out there. But, Sadly this is what you get in response...

Well, there is the this site where we discuss SIkhi, in India they don't give a damm about SIkhi to be honest! :cry:

Bhul Chuk Mafi..

With sincere regards

Sardu!!

I'm gonna add my two cents here too...

So basically what I'm gettin here is that 1) there should be no relationships of this sort before marriage, and 2) that once again... most sikhs don't believe in the caste system...

Ok... here's the deal then... does that mean then that one should reside to choice of the match that their parent's make. From majority of the relationships that I've seen that are made by parents, they're not the world's greatest. It is because our parents see one side of the person and we end up seeing another side... although on the surface it looks like these marriages work, but once one gets inside and understands both ppl, you realize there's a huge difference... I know personally where a person was shown three ppl beforehand and out of them one was chosen for this lady... the person she got was first of all much older to her and second of all had no interest in doing things with her, they're doing ok, but that's because they've learned to compromise and not expect much from each other... however she still sees these other two guys from time to time and they're interests match hers ten times better... and it's sad to see this person struggling the way she is and trying not to regret the decision that her parents made for her...

I believe that one should be able to be on the look out for someone that interests them, that they have a connection with otherwise, if you don't have any thing in common with the person how can u even learn to love them, it becomes a burden than anything else...

and about sikhs not believing in the caste system... then how come my friend was said no to by every single family that she came across... she's a dentist, gorgeous and is the most sweetest person...and she comes from an amritdhari family that doesn't believe in the caste system... but whenever she was introduced to a jatt/tarkan/whoever else... they all said no upon finding out later through friends that her parents come from chamars and these were all amritdhari families they were looking at....... excuse me this happens every day... in frustration she looked to the first person that showed her that she was more than what others thought of her and she married a polish guy, real sweet and he's such a nice person... but this was the last resort for her... cuz no one else wanted to marry her...

Explain to me how that happened, cuz believe me when I heard what had happened to her, it broke my heart on how superficial sikhs have become....

Ohh!!! Touching!! and sadly, i observed that nobody has taken these "True" question directly. No body answering them. except..

The reason is ignorance is still here. The only way to show them the way is to let out few verses from sggs ji on caste system to show them their fake orthodoxy!!!. Its slowly goin away though.

you are right veere. But, Why this is here. Many of our friends come with so many quotes of sggs etc. when discussing topics.. what happens to their knowledge when it comes to caste thinh.. why they are ignorant on this still. and if your answer is this..

Yep I agree with you there. Its slowly going away. You have to remember its an very bad influence from hindu soceity that our ancenstors lived in from guroo's time. It was almost an epedimic.

this is sad. I can recall one line i read on this forum only, Whatever BAD sikhs are doing, blame it to hindus!!! This ain't correct way . There are so many other customs of hindus which we have left/forgot easily.. why we still living with this one? lack of will.. un-easyness in leaving it? why?

Love is not a sin and you can mis/intepret any religious text to back up what you're trying to say.

If we follow the line of logic you're attempting to espouse...you cannot love a man or woman be they you're wife/husband or not. But also you cannot love your family, children and if we take it to its logical conclusion we cannot love God because theres no such thing as love.

Personally, as a human being first I AM capable of love and you must look to yourself to see if you are too. If you are not then the loss appears to be yours my friend.

By who's definition? That of man? The views of man are without fail biased and/or an intepretation of the real word of God.

Guru Nanak was a Hindu by birth...does that make him unworthy of calling himself a Sikh?

And as I said before Guru Nanak advocated the abolishment of the Caste System...but who listened to him? Which sikh follows HIS teaching? ...because if you do not, then by your definition you're not a Sikh.

I was born into a family thats Sikh. I believe in God.

I am not however, bigoted or careless of the feelings and beliefs of my fellow man and I most certainly do not believe that religion is the route to God. You can believe in God but you do not have to follow any religion to do so.

Impressive!!!! I admire/appriciate These Thoughts and agree with them.

10-20 days back when i posted on first page in this thread.,. i didn't think that this discussion will lead in these directions. Today, after so many days, today when i see this topic of 7 pages, i am realizing what is the different between Discussing and Arguing. Nonetheless, Your efforts/post were classic.

Lol @ the race.

I think IDeal singh is gonna win cos Steel Bangle, U are about to hit the wall, watch out.

lol!!! i agree. he he he!!

...My scanner is giving me trouble and im working on it....

lol!!!! yaah.. same here.. i m working on arranging a Scanner!!

Nice List!!!!

Let me add one.. which i feel is pretty cool

www.linux-sec.net

i dont know bout ne1 else....

but ive been to delhi...ive been to punjab....

and these claims of sikhi being good in delhi isnt entirely accurate??

i used 2 walk round in my dumalla and daree kulhee....

the forst thing my dads friends said to me was to wear a smarter pugh and tie my dari, as it presented the wrong image?!?

but then again thats only one person and shouldnt represent everyone...

Right.. it may his individual views.. nevertheless nobody ask/suggest you to CUT!!!

but nearly every "sikh" we met there drank....im not sayin punjab was any better....but personally i dont see how sikhi is anything in india now....

I will say this is somewhat "Hyper". Everone was drunk?? Well i agree this is very very common in sikhs here. but again, only because of these obeservations you can't claim what you have done. Please refer to the Steel Bangle's Post; He has also shared some observation he made, which you, somehow and unfortunetly, didn't do or forget to mention here.

No body is perfect.. yes i agree there are some bad practices like drinking, is comman here, though i don't know abt outside so not saying anything, But, When it comes to sikhi and other religious practice, believe me things are not that BAD as u are guessing!!!!!! Next time when u VISIT India, drop a mail to me, I would try my best to arrnage off from work and would take you around. Probablly that may help!

hey! SSA!

i have a bigggg issue when people say that GOD is MALE, like he is everywhere, he is the supreme being, he, he, he, he, he ,he! OMG im going to go crazy! GOD is not a HE! or even a SHE! but still i know its maybe a short word but i mean it's only one more word, so just say GOD not he! WHenever someone refers god as "he" i always say SHE just to see their reaction, its funny somtimes! again im no feminist, im not preaching that women are better than men, im just saying its wrong to refer GOD as "he, him" ! and yes its wrong to refer god as "she" too!!! any comments?? have you people ever noticed this?!!

ha ha..if i can be frank with you, i will say, you are lying.... this definetly sounds faminist, how much excuse you give. .. please don't mind it. on to your query.. well, firstly, I try to use he/she and him/her combination refering to the almighty. But i would say.. when refering to the GOD.. the use of word he or him is pretty okay.. and there exist a word "GODDESS" for which she or her can/should be used. moreover, i will request to have broad approach on this issue..

With Kind Regards for you (ana all females)

CAKE!!! :shock: you mean.. CAKE!!! Kaha hai cake.?? mero ko bhee chaiye.. :twisted:

Hi im new to this forum (*cough* Liar, 350+posts *cough*) and was just wondering and wanted an insight on why people cut their hair.??

i cant seem to understand the reason behind it.

is it to fit in with society?

or do you find it a hassle to have long hair??

Or if you male, do you want to look like a women??

Of if you female, are you afarid to look like a man?? (Joke. Harsh! I know)

Please help me understand this...

Thank you.

Nice topic!!! I appriciate. Since you are now looking for the answer of another question, which is not for me, i will keep my mouth shut!

this is me

few yrs later on my cyclee :wink: 8)

cute hai!!!!

That one is Mine !!! 8)

very nice .. veere

Fateh Ji,

Myself as a baby...

and then a few years later...

nice pictures kaur!!! bahut sunder!!

naw man...jus do what every other sikh does....blame it on brahminsism, or the hindus......

lol!!! ha ha ha....

Oh Yes ofcourse Sardu, Hez The Best !!

yesssss...

I agree with Sardu, thatz xactly what we are discussing in another thread in this forum...

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=1759

I hope that addz to this very important discussion...

Humbly

Hi ideal . I read that thread .. and i am very impressed by your views.. Bahut acche!!

Letz discuss the contribution of Non-Rezident Indian Sikhz for the cauz of Sikhizm... ofcourz besidez thez discussion forumz... :wink:

Great topic!!! I have always that question in my mind!!

Well, there is the this site where we discuss SIkhi, in India they don't give a damm about SIkhi to be honest! :cry:

honest??? on what basis? who They? Come here. Come to my city. Its not in Punjab.. And you will know how much "Damn" we have. The problem with most you is that you see sikh religion bound to pujab only. and decide your views on the bassis of the information you read on web-sittes. India is a Big counrty friends and so as the Sikh religion. you are living "saat Samunder paar" and the best source of info you have got the media.. and your imagination. Please also note that Sikh religion is more that just demading "Khalistan".

I am not doubting there are Sikhs who can debate better than Sikhs who are on this forum, but I have seen from experience that there is far more passion for Sikhi abroad to be honest.

Beause you are yourself in abroad. I can't understand on what grouds are you COMPARING. How long have you been here in India?

but is india better where they cut it all off???

I remeber one incident. there is a family in my neighbourhood. The sons of the famliy were studying in Australia. The elder one, came back on a short visit. He was wearing "Pagh" and having beared etc. After the vacation he returned. The very next day, unfortunetly, his father expired. he got the news in between his way back. He has to return immediately. and he returned. AS he arrived home, everybody was shocked. The person who was a perfect sardar since yesterday, is a clean shaved guy with a smart hair cut!! :shock:. Huh? I will not comment furthre, and let you draw the conclusion..

Grow up man! :roll: You ain't been to Southall have you?

Grow up aap!! have you ever been into Delhi even. Remeber Delhi is not in Punjab.

Friends, at no point, i am trying to say that NRIs don't contribute to sikhism. They certainly do. and Its nice to see that. But Dear Friends, Don't think that NRIs are doing something very great and Indians not.. in terms of contribution to the religion. I don't want to blame or curse or something like that to NRIs.. because i don't know the exact condition? same as you are not aware of situation in India. If you talk abt building gurudwars... There are 6 in my town.. and again, its not in punjab. I don't think that you would or could celebrate the GuruPurab the way we do here. Special arrangments are done by local police for the nagar kirtan on gurupurabs.. atleat 5 schools are there in my town which are run by sikhs... and Teach sikhi as a regular subject. I request you all , that please before commenting on the sikhism in india, come, visit to India. Don't just read web sites. Its not a fashion here as it is Outside. Come read books, meet the people and than decide.!!!

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

With Kind Regards

Sardu!

Yes, and I agree that "free" hurts sometimes but when we are living in reality then we know how the situation is in India for sikhs. I'm not sure about cities but in villages a simple sikh is living under the poverty line and in that case if we will have fees I don't think there is any way for them to get back to their religion. All they need financial support which NRI sikhs can provide very easily but they don't and my list was based on reality.

Why so many were converted to sikhism in the times of Gurus? Simple, they were doing the exact whatever they were preaching. They served free langars and went to houses of their followers to show them support.

I have read news that one community didn't allow another community to eat langar at the same place, just because they were lower than them. I have read one community didn't allow cremation to another community just because they treat them lower than them. I have read that in most of the Gurdwaras of Punjab, you get selected on bases of your caste and approach not on your qualification? And at the end they all are sikhs.

Agree with you... I Wrote the last line with more emotions than logic.. actually it hurt me, thinking that i m the one who is living in the same country so its more of my duty...

Idher bhee!! Happy B'Day hai..

Thanx Sardu for returning some decency to the Thread dedicated to my Beloved Game... Alone I was waging a hard battle... :wink:

Sikh hai veere tou.. ek hi lakho ke baraber hai... Don't worry!!

wow....sardu writes like we jus insulted his mother... sorry man...

Man..don't go so far.. and so quick!! And did u realize that by writing this, you are .actually, defaming your whole family. Isn't this just showing the values you have learnt... or you have been taught. If you can't respect others please don't insult because you are not alone in this world who can use "These" words. I think you will understand the feeling!! By default, I consider you, like my brother and friend so.. no harsh feelings/words.

Kind Regards

Sardu

Ok calm down, Jsb you are officially the best butt-scratcher on the forum :roll:

:x :evil:

Do people even RUN in Kirkit? All I see is guys with weird white clothes walking around gloomily with these colored strips across their noses, like some war paint, which really does not compliment their trousers :?

if you don't understand, why you see it and why notice so much? anyways, That paint is like sun-protaction lotion.. Since a player has to be on the field for whole day, it is kinda required.

Sorry, *ahem* yes so back to Kirkit..

Gurfateh

Its okay!!!! Try to use better expression next time!! You can actually do it.

if a singh who wore a dastaar became a proffessional cricket player.... would he still have to wear the helmet? :?:

Yes. Helmet is for protection. and it became neccessaary when you face a ball delivered @ speed of 80-90 miles/hour from a distance of 22 yards!!! which means. that at this speed... the batsman has less than or equal to one second to decide.. wheather the to hit or to defense and how!!