harpreet

The last post was on 21st June . It appears that no one is interested in the discussion .I withdraw from this discussion.

harpreet

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all and Gurpreet Singh Jee!

Quote "I would like to as you, have you become a true Sikh and agree with Guru's experience?"

Yes. I feel this experience is true.

Balbir Singh

Kindly tell us the experience that you had.It will be for the benefit for all Of us. Thanks.

ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣੁ ॥

[ My understanding:

Literal translation

It is thru. gurbani/guru's teachings that one comes to understand oneself.]

2.ਮਨੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਬੂਝੈ ਜਨੁ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥

[my understanding:

Literal translation

Shabad kills the ego Of mind and he[seyi] knows this]

Kindly correct me.

Xylitol ji,

It would mean that we can meet any living person and accept HIM as our Guru for advancement in spritual path. KIndly confirm jeo.

I am thankful for your kind replies to my statement. I have no experience Of 'Simran' but hope that I shall also progress with due passage Of time. I shall keep you posted about the development. In the meantime, May I keep on posting my doubts. You all seem to be very nice people.

Thanks.

ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣੁ ॥

Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, he comes to understand himself.

ਮਨੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਬੂਝੈ ਜਨੁ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥

The mind is conquered through the Word of the Shabad; this is known to the Lord's humble servant. ||1||

===============================================

Kindly Explain the meaning of the above lines.I shall be very grateful. What is 'Guru's Shabad' and Word Of Shabad'

Thanks

ਜਿਨ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਸੇ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਪੂਰੈ ਕਰਮਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੩॥

Those who meet the True Guru are very fortunate and blessed; through perfect karma, He is met.

But dear sir ,

who is Tru Guru as per the line that you have quoted.Is it the God him self or it would be SGGS ji.

kindly clarify.

thanks.

Respected friend,

I have checked up at the above sites. At my computer ,it is always asking for downloading.The files are big. The downloading is likely to take some time.Could you kindly suggest some alternative from where I can download or listen if the files are not as heavy as these or suggest some thing else to read or something.

Thx.

Right, but Om is fundamentally different from Ik Oangkar b/c Ik Oangkar refers to one god alone, whereas Om refers to the trinuty of Gods Bhrama, Vishnu, Shiva.

And as for karma, a Gursikh is not 100% subject to karma like a non-sikh is. By our Guru's grace, we're saved from some of it.

You are right as above but I make an addition here.

'Om' is the primal /first sound for hindus.Sikhs consider this to be 'Oangkar'. This is the similarity/difference between the two.

Questiion 9

ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਸਾਚੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੀ ॥ [page 560]

Lasting peace is obtained, contemplating the Shabad, the True Word of God.

Kindly explain the meaning Of the line esp. Shabad , the tru word Of God.'

Question 8

ਨਦਰੀ ਮਰਿ ਕੈ ਜੀਵੀਐ ਨਦਰੀ ਸਬਦੁ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਇ ॥

By His Grace, one dies while yet alive, and by His Grace, the Word of the Shabad is enshrined in the mind. [page 558]

Kindly explain the meaning Of the above line. The 'word Of shabad is also appearing here.What is 'dying while alive'. Does it mean that one should become very humble and should have no ego? kindly clarify.

Dear Jeo,

Question-7

ਜਪਿ ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਤੂ ਏਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ॥ [page 558]

O my mind, chant the One Name.

ਸਤਗੁਰਿ ਦੀਆ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਏਹੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ [p558]

The True Guru has given me this treasure. ||1||Pause||

Which name is being referred to in the above lines?

Who is the Guru refd. to above.?

What should I do?

Just carry on With chanting 'Waheguru' all the time. Kindly clarify[taken from page 558]

I have posted upto Question no.6 and shall pst next questions when you advise me. My doubts are related to conceptualisations and contextual meanings.

Quuestion no.6

ਧੁਰਿ ਖਸਮੈ ਕਾ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪਇਆ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਚੇਤਿਆ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥

From the very beginning, it has been the Will of the Lord Master, that He cannot be remembered without the True Guru.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਦਾ ਰਹਿਆ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥

Meeting the True Guru, he realizes that the Lord is permeating and pervading deep within him; he remains forever absorbed in the Lord's Love.

Question about Guru/Tru guru.

What is the meaning of these lines.Taken from pages 555 of SGGS ji. True Guru at many places seems to mean as Lord but the above line differentiates between tru Guru and Lord. What is the significance of the term tru Guru and guru as asked for in above questions.

The questioons may seem to be foolish to you but kindly answer as i am not able to concentrate on my prayers.

Thanks and regards.

Hi xylitol ji,

Question No.5

ਆਪੇ ਜਿਨਾ ਬੁਝਾਏ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਤਿਨ ਅੰਦਰਹੁ ਦੂਜਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਗਇਆ ॥੧੩॥

Those whom the Lord Himself instructs as Gurmukh - duality and doubt depart from within them. ||13||

Wat exactly is the meaning Of Duality ? Is it to mean that one believes in God sometime and some other time he is in doubt about the same. Kindly explain.

Thanks and regards.

Hi Dear xylitol ji.

Question No.4

ਪ੍ਰਿਉ ਪ੍ਰਿਉ ਕਰਤੀ ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਫਿਰੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਪਿਆਸ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ [page 553]

I wandered over the whole world, crying out, "Love, O Love!", but my thirst was not quenched.

ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਮੇਰੀ ਪਿਆਸ ਗਈ ਪਿਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਘਰਿ ਆਇ ॥੨॥

O Nanak, meeting the True Guru, my desires are satisfied; I found my Beloved, when I returned to my own home. ||2||

Who is True Guru as per the context.?

Kindly also let me know the difference between the gurus that are used in SGSS ji. [eg. 1.guru, 2.true guru, 3.sat guru 4. AAd Guru 5. Jugaad Guru

6. Sri guru deve .]

For us Sri Guru granth sahib ji is the guru. Kindly clarify.

Harpreet.

My mail id is

hpspahwa@yahoo.co.in ] In case you would like to answer me at the id or

You may kindly answer it here for the benefit of others. These are the doubts that confront the seekers and those who want to understand gurbani.

Hi xyltol

Dear friend I am grateful for the advice. I shall follow it and will be telling you the results.

I shall be grateful if you could remove some of my doubts Of Gurbani as well. Following is the line that contains 'word of shabad' in english translation. In Gurmukhi it is only 'shabad'.

Question No.1[/b]1.What exactly is the meaning of 'word of shabad' ?

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਸਹਸਾ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਚੂਕੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਏ ॥ Night and day, his doubts never stop; without the Word of the Shabad, he suffers in pain.[page 550-line 1]

Question No.2

ਨਾਨਕ ਰਸਨਾ ਸਬਦਿ ਰਸਾਇ ਜਿਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ O Nanak, one whose mind is filled with the Name of the Lord, Har, Har - his tongue savors the Word of the Shabad. ||1|| [page550]

What is 'word Of shabd' and what is the 'Name Of Lord' as per the above line.

Question No.3

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਸਹਸਾ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਚੂਕੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਏ ॥

Night and day, his doubts never stop; without the Word of the Shabad, he suffers in pain.

What is 'word Of shabad' and its meaning in context. In the original gurbani only shabad has been used while in translation it is translated as 'word Of shabad'. Kindlyclarify.

I shall keep on posting my doubts here.May kindly let me know the meaning if it is not inconvenient. You may kindly take your own time.

Thanks and regards.

:shock:

One should be either a first class fool or super human being to thank HIM for creating me and then put me through the cycle of 8.40 million and then let me appear in human form with the instructions that I should thank HIM[ not literally , but even doing Paath is thanking HIM] and finally get merged with HIm . But all this is pre-conditioned with HIS grace and will.If everything is to happen as per HIS will , what is the big question of thanking HIM and for what , that He created me as human being. It does not require any thanks.

It may sound an egotistical but then one starts from a scratch and makes concept of the existence of the self. You may as well opine as to why He should be praised and thanked. I do not know as to who I was in my past life and will not know in my future life as there is no evidence that I shall remember the present life in future life. If I had the guarantee that I would know as to what happened to me in the previous life that I may be tempted to remembe HIM. It seems slightly confusing to me. I am happy with my Paath and nitnem that I am able to adhere to. I do want to know about the Naam if it helps. May be it is 'wahay Guru' or not. But I shall remember HIM by this name as it helps. One may chant any name to arrive at some peace Of mind or to obtain similar end results. Gurbani also states that He should be remembered with every breath. Why so?

' saas saas simro gobind'

The ultimate question that may also trouble you would be that He has created and why should we make efforts to get merged with HIM. Do we still know that by doing this we shall meet HIM.

Please find out the catch and state the same here.

You are perfectly right jeo.I am from India and found a very useful site. I shall open the site and will let you know shortly. However, at the first attempt that I have tried the site asks to download/save or to open up. In both cases it shall take time as the files are 50-60 mb. I have broad Band installed and stated downloading is at 128kb but this is divided on account of 50 clients sharing this connection. Efectively, the speed gets reduced to about to 30 kb.

Thanks a lot .

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http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/S....Mekhe.Jana.mp3

Knowledge covered:

- What is GOD

- Types of Avatars

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http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/S....da.Senwaad.mp3

Knowledge about:

- 3 roops of Waheguru: Nirgun, Sargun, Verat

------------------------------------

http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/S....Jaandeh.Ji.mp3

Knowledge about:

- Effect of 1 sec of saying Waheguru

- Precendence of naam, isnan, satsang.

- Initially Guru HAVE to be considered as GOD

- To meet Waheguru: 3 things are necessary: Simran, Dhayan, Gyan. For details listen.

------------------------------------

http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/S...i.Gopala.Ji.mp3

Knowledge about:

- Why Guru jee ne Gurbani rache

- Types of gatti/salvation with full details

- Heaven is not permanent and one should NOT desire that and problems in heaven

- Types of Bhagti

------------------------------------

http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/S...aribi.Avey).mp3

Knowledge covered:

- Types of Pride/Hankar,

- Worship of what?

- What is Mukti?

- "Waheguru Gur-mantar ha, jap hume khoe"

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http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/S.....Jay.Aayaa.mp3

Knowledge covered:

- Gurbani vecharne has MORE importance than Gurbani parne (for those who say that katha and so called kache bani is not valid)

-----------------------------------

http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/S...u.Naal.Meyl.mp3

Knowledge about:

- How many kuls/generations are blessed who does Bhagati

- What body is made up of: 2 things (Asthol sareer which is made up of 5 basic elements, and Susham sareer which is made up of 17 elements....listen for details)

----------------------------

http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/S...hu.Di.Sakhi.mp3

Knowledge covered:

- Who is Sant/Brahmgyani

- Lachan of Sants),

- Salvation for different kind of people

- Bhagats can replace GOD's bachan

----------------------------

http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/S...ey.Paatshah.mp3

Knowledge covered

- Importance of Namaskar

- Which thing is important in each yug: e.g puja, yag

- Why sometimes reading Gurbani does NOT induce nasha

----------------------------

http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/S...hkhand.Jana.mp3

Knoweldge covered:

- Guru Nanak Dev Ji was Nirankar HIMSELF.

- If Guru is necessary (or say if Naam from Guru is necessary), then who was Guru of Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

----------------------------

http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/S....Daya.Singh.mp3

- Guru Gobind Singh da Tuhi Tuhi likhna on many pages

- What to forget

- Death occurs when 4 things reach

- Khalsa is created with GOD's hukam

- Crowd during Guru Gobind Singh Ji's deewan was around 60,000-70,000

- Only forty were left from all the crowd when the Guru Gobind Singh came outside with Panj Payaras...and these 40 are known as CHALI MUKTE

- 3 Amrits: Khande da Amrit or Sanskar Amrit, Naam Amrit, Gyan Amrit

-----------------------------

http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/S...at.Da.Divan.mp3

Knowledge covered

- 3.5 crore masand/holes in body

- For those who says that if RAAB wants then we will do path.... 4 types of kirpa: Ishvar kirpa, Guru kirpa, Shaster kirpa, and Apne aap kirpa..........Ishvar kirpa is human birth, Guru, Shaster kirapa is Gurbani de kirpa as Gurbani guide us and also guides us to go to Sant, Guru Kirpa is Sant ne method/jugti dase, so you have all 3 kirpas, and then do 4th kirpa yourself.....after all these 4 kirpas, jevan ve safal ho javaga.

-----------------------------

http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/S...m.Di.Mehmaa.mp3

Knowledge covered:

- 2 things that a person faces in Satsang: Susti and Khayal da edhar udhar jana. And ways to overcome this.

- Importance of Naam according to Bhai Gurdas Jee.

- Totol of 3.5 crore tirath in this world, among them 68 are main.

- According to Guru Nanak Dev Ji which Name of GOD should be uttered as asked by pandats

- Ruhane/Spiritual school have 4 classes (Vast knowledge)

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http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/S....Walo.Sakhi.mp3

Knowledge covered

- RAAB is inside us, but is inside 5 layers. One needs 2 things to find that: Brahmgyani who knows where is RAAB and a key obtained by Brahmgyani to open that 5 layers. In other words RAAB is inside 5 kosh. Ann Kosh, Pran Kosh, Man Kosh, Vegyan Kosh, Anand Kosh. Here key is Naam da abyaas which Brahmgyani gives.

- Baba Fareed was following sherat for 36 years and din't want to visit any Brahmgyani, but after spending 36 years then he has gone to Brahmgyani and attained RAAB.

------------------------------

http://www.gurmatveechar.org/audio/katha/S...dhaar.Karna.mp3

Knowledge covered:

- Dharam de char/4 paar haan: Raja, Tirath, Brahman, Sadhu.

- RAAB tu ucha RAAB da NAAM ha as told by Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Gorakhnath. Also, listen the reason.

- Examples of RAAB da NAAM RAAB to ucha ha.

- Everything can be obtained by: Naam, Dan, Isnan.

------------------------------

bhul chuk de maffi

das

Thank you , Friend , for all this. I shall study /listen each of these. However, it is to bring to your kind notice that the cut and paste does not work. You may kindly recheck and inform me as to how to reach the stated html pages of the stated site.

Regards.

1.Many a time one gets stuck explaining spiritual essence in a logical way.

2.Attaining spiritual realization is not a sudden process.

3.When we were born in this physical body, the creator sent us here with a package. They are all the expressable attributes of soul like joy, happiness, tranquility, inner peace and radiance, etc.

4. We look everywhere except the right place - within. The nature of peace, joy and happiness is such that it can only be found within one's self. And SGGS is the manual that decifers or decodes the way back.Not everyone however can understand the decoded message.

5.More later. Harpreet Singh Jee, I think I have taken a "pangga" by offering to narrate the details of the paradox. Please be patient as it isn't necessarily an eazy task explaining.

Thanks again Namjap jeo for everything that you are doing for me. I do agree with you that we have to control our mind, understand the message oF SGGS ji . I am a novice and have not gone thru. the entire Bani as contained in SGGS ji. I shall endeavor to do it fast.

Needless to say that I shall be patient as suggested by your goodself.

SOURCE: http://www.sikh.net/SIKHISM/GURUS/index.htm

The law of Karma or fatalism is repugnant to Sikh Religion as it does not reconcile with the merciful trait of the Almighty Lord. There is no such thing in Sikhism as eternal damnation or an everlasting pit of fire created by the revengeful God. Guru's grace erases the blot of thousands of evil deeds of the past and the present. It is also the savior of the future. Meditation on Nam burns countless sins. Singing the glory of the Lord through the Divine Word, can redeem a repentant sinner and, thus, doctrine of Karma ceases to operate. Such is the splendor of Guru Nanak's doctrine of God's Grace and Compassion.

Thanks for a nice article.

Law Of Karma is well integrated in the philosphy Of Sikhism. Infact ,it is one Of the similarity with the Hindu Religion. This is a derivative product.

Aapey beej aapey he Khao.

[ I am quoting incomplete but I am sure you can make out as to that is stated.]

Secondly meditation Of naam is also part and parcel Of Hindus who meditate upon 'om'. It is like 'Oangkar' for the sikhs.

Dear Namjap

The above statement is not logical. God is 'sat'. He shall be irrespective of my or our existence. Please carry on and do tell me that you want to. I shall patiently listen.

Thanks

[quote="shaheediyan"]ਹੁਕਮੁ ਸੋਈ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵਸੀ ਹੋਰੁ ਆਖਣੁ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਅਪਾਰੁ ॥

Hukam so­ī tudh bhāvsī hor ākhan bahut apār.

The Hukam of Your Command is the pleasure of Your Will, Lord. To say anything else is far beyond anyone's reach.

We as egocentric beings have a need and belief that everything is within our comprehension.

We think we have free will, power, we do, in our limited and illusionery understanding of life.

We can be seen to make decisions and live our life how we choose, but all is within his hukum, each step, each thought, each breath. We do not need to reconcile the 2, the illusion (power/free will) exists with the truth.

ਆਖਣਿ ਜੋਰੁ ਚੁਪੈ ਨਹ ਜੋਰੁ ॥

Ākhan jor chupai nah jor.

No power to speak, no power to keep silent.

ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਮੰਗਣਿ ਦੇਣਿ ਨ ਜੋਰੁ ॥

Jor na mangan dėn na jor.

No power to beg, no power to give.

ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਜੀਵਣਿ ਮਰਣਿ ਨਹ ਜੋਰੁ ॥

Jor na jīvan maran nah jor.

No power to live, no power to die.

ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਰਾਜਿ ਮਾਲਿ ਮਨਿ ਸੋਰੁ ॥

Jor na rāj māl man sor.

No power to rule, with wealth and occult mental powers.

ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਸੁਰਤੀ ਗਿਆਨਿ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥

Jor na surtī gi­ān vīchār.

No power to gain intuitive understanding, spiritual wisdom and meditation.

ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਜੁਗਤੀ ਛੁਟੈ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥

Jor na jugtī chhutai sansār.

No power to find the way to escape from the world.

ਜਿਸੁ ਹਥਿ ਜੋਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਸੋਇ ॥

Jis hath jor kar vėkhai so­ė.

He alone has the Power in His Hands. He watches over all.

ਨਾਨਕ ਉਤਮੁ ਨੀਚੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥੩੩॥

Nānak utam nīch na ko­ė. ||33||

O Nanak, no one is high or low. ||33||

If one goes through the entire SGGS ji one finds that almost every action Of ours is governed by the destiny or pre-ordained as most of the translators have used while translating the Bani into English.In view Of so many qoutations contained in the form of HIs grace, Hukum, His will, destiny, theory of Karma and pre-ordained are we really left with any Free will that we can do something that we want to do? Is it so? Really.I need your help