harpreet

Thanks a lot once again for such a nice post.

It is true, sir, that right now I have little love for HIM. I have love Of my Gurus. I respect them and love them and hope that I shall rely on them than to someone whose form I can not define. I am more comfortable on Guru nanak ji as my Guru. I do pray but thru,. repetition Of Paath. I think it should help.

The situation can be best expressed with the help of an example of a flower. I sow a plant for its flower as these are beautiful. I water the plants to keep it alive and grow. I am happy when the flower blooms. It is just like the creator and myself. He has created me and he sustains, where is the question of Thanking HIM as He has created me as per HIS wish and will let me get merge with HIm when it pleases HIM. It is just like asking a flower to thank the creator for the existence and that it looks beautiful to all those who sees it. It is just like a flower who does not know as to what is to be done and why should be done. It just blooms without thanking me. Just because it does not thank me that I should not be forgetting to water the plant. I shall continue to do it till a time comes when it fades away in nature.

Like wise is this life. It continues as per the wishes of the Nature or The overall consciousness of this world. It is the nature from which we have originated and nature will it be when I am dead.

One should be either a first class fool or super human being to thank HIM for creating me and then put me through the cycle of 8.40 million and then let me appear in human form with the instructions that I should thank HIM[ not literally , but even doing Paath is thanking HIM] and finally get merged with HIm . But all this is pre-conditioned with HIS grace and will.If everything is to happen as per HIS will , what is the big question of thanking HIM and for what , that He created me as human being. It does not require any thanks.

It may sound an egotistical but then one starts from a scratch and makes concept of the existence of the self. You may as well opine as to why He should be praised and thanked. I do not know as to who I was in my past life and will not know in my future life as there is no evidence that I shall remember the present life in future life. If I had the guarantee that I would know as to what happened to me in the previous life that I may be tempted to remembe HIM. It seems slightly confusing to me. I am happy with my Paath and nitnem that I am able to adhere to. I do want to know about the Naam if it helps. May be it is 'wahay Guru' or not. But I shall remember HIM by this name as it helps. One may chant any name to arrive at some peace Of mind or to obtain similar end results. Gurbani also states that He should be remembered with every breath. Why so?

' saas saas simro gobind'

One may remember our guru [and not necessarily God] in times of difficulty. You may kindly tell as to why should I thank HIM when the procedures as precribed in our scriptures are not clear and do confuse a layman like me.The post has been written without major thought editing.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

In the following I might have gone off-topic but may be its helpful to understand Naam/Gurmantar/Waheguru.

All the creation (crores and crores of universes, Khands etc.) exists because of the continued resosance of Naam. Starting from the creation of everything this resosance is going on and will go. If this resosance is stopped, then the whole creation will be destroyed. Infact GOD created everything by with one shabad.

Naam is within us. I agree with Neo that during Amrit Sanchar, Panj Payaras give us a shabad which will in turn awake that Naam from within us. Panj Payaras (supposing that one of the Panj Payaras has already attained the last stage of spiritual path) also give a technique which have to be followed with that shabad. With technique Brahmgyan can be attained.

Naam is same as always. Naam within us and Naam given by Panj Payars IS same.

Now, Naam that helps us to merge with GOD have to be followed by a technique which could ONLY be given by Sant/Brahmgyani/Who is one with GOD (I am NOT talking of a person whom sometimes we refer to Brahmgyani if he looks like one from outer clothes).

Actually, in order to meet Waheguru 3 things are necessary: Simran, Dhayan/Concentration, and Gyan.

Simran should be of Gurmantar/Waheguru with a technique [bakhery Bani (with tongue), Madma Bani (in throat), Pasanty Bani (in heart), Para Bani (in nabi) etc. but these techniques should be given by Sant/Brahmgyani according to one's adekar].

Dhayan hunda a Guru saroop da. Now, some people say that Guru in physical form is NOT allowed. It's NOT black and white. I agree that our eternal Guru is Guru Granth Sahib Ji. But one needs "Dhayan Dharna" while doing simran and Nirankar is without saroop. How could we put our "Dhayan" on Nirankar? For example: If someone wants to take nishana on sky, then he/she needs something in sky to dhayan, otherwise sky is gap. We need to "Dharan Dharna" of GURU/Teacher (who is already one with GOD) and after sometime when birte becomes susham then Nirankar da dhayan ho janda ha.

The above mentioned Dhayan is NOT out of context thing, it's told by Guru Arjan Dev Ji when sangat asked Babaji "Kis da dhayan karna chaheda ha/To whom should be concenterate on while doing simran". In Guru Granth Sahib Ji on page 864 as follows:

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਧਿਆਨੁ ॥

ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨ ॥

ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਰਿਦੈ ਲੈ ਧਾਰਉ ॥

ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਸਦਾ ਨਮਸਕਾਰਉ ॥੧॥

ਮਤ ਕੋ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲੈ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ ॥

ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਉਤਰਸਿ ਪਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Here Babaji is referring to Guru (true Sant/Brahmgyani) in physical form because GOD is Nirakar (without shape and does not have feet).

For example: Naam is a ship that can take us to other end which is across this sansar samundar. The other end is Waheguru. Now, one needs Malah/Guru/Teacher/Brahmgyani (person who drives the Naam rupe boat), but that malah should know the place where he is taking the people and also must have good arms so that he can drive the chappu. Boat cannot go to other shore without Malah. Same way "Waheguru/Naam/Gurmantar" simran without Guru won't be able to help us to reach GOD. Reaching GOD and attaining some gyan or attain a place in heaven is entirely different.

Doing simran without Guru may help us to bring good things, Ridhian-Sidhian and can help us to reach the true Guru. Waheguru/Naam da simran WITHOUT Guru may lead us (by GOD) to a true Guru who will in turn help us to meet GOD.

for example: Baba Fareed did very hard bhagati for 36 years without the guidance of physical Sant/Brahmgyani because he was the follower of Shareat and Shareat does not allow any Guru in physical form, but after 36 years he has gone to Brahmgyani and thus attained GOD.

True Guru/Sant/Brahmgyani cannot be find out by us, GOD leads us to them in reward of our good deeds of several previous births and not just one. Lucky are those whom GOD has provided the guidance of Brahmgyani.

We should try to do as much path/gurbani as we can do, because every second counts, we might meet the GOD in next janams.

A person who is doing lot of paths/simran in this birth, but not enough to meet Waheguru. Death and re-birth for that person is like reading a book and while doing that goes to sleep, when he again wakes up start reading from that page where he left. It's NOT something like in every human birth you have to restart your karam book.

bhuk chuk de maffi

das

I have quoted the above post for my benefit.

Thank you Das jeo for such a wonderful exposition that I have come across for the first time. Thanks again for sharing in details the naam. I am equally thankful to to all those who have replied and have helped me to integrate the concepts of Naam thatwas never clear to me. I had always thought that Naam is something in relation to the Name Of God/waheguru or hisattribute like first word Like 'Ongkar'. I stand corrected to that extent.

Das jeo ,you have explained only two parts of your coverage i.e

1. Simran

2. Dhyan

3. Gyan

You have detailed out on Simran and Dhyan. You may kindly expand on the third aspect that is left uncovered .I shall be seriously interested and shall be asking yourself the questions where I have doubts.

"Simran should be of Gurmantar/Waheguru with a technique [bakhery Bani (with tongue), Madma Bani (in throat), Pasanty Bani (in heart), Para Bani (in nabi) etc. but these techniques should be given by Sant/Brahmgyani according to one's adekar]. "

2. You may kindly tell more about the techniques of Simran . Is it like chanting the Gurumantar or something else? What are these techniques.?

3. Naam simran and Gurumantar can be same?

4.

"Doing simran without Guru may help us to bring good things, Ridhian-Sidhian and can help us to reach the true Guru. Waheguru/Naam da simran WITHOUT Guru may lead us (by GOD) to a true Guru who will in turn help us to meet GOD. "

Is there any Gurbani 'support ' for this. If any kindly point out.

5."True Guru/Sant/Brahmgyani cannot be find out by us, GOD leads us to them in reward of our good deeds of several previous births and not just one. Lucky are those whom GOD has provided the guidance of Brahmgyani. "

5.

sy DMnu vfy sq purKw pUry ijn gurmiq nwmu iDAwieAw ] (445-5, Awsw, mÚ 4)

So very blessed and truly perfect are those, who through Guru's Instruction meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

What is the meaning Of this line. You may refer to the english Translation.

Namjap ji.[/font:057159015e]

I shall be grateful if you kindly continue with your dicussion.

Regards to all .

[

Dear Friend,

I could see the reference from Dr Sahib Singh Jis Commentary on SGGS ji. He has mentioned something about Babar. The teeka is in Gurmukhi. I shall contact someone who knows the Gurmukhi and I shall post it for you[/font:9df99e2d1c].

with regards to the number and God.. who knows.. who cares.. just dance in his charan and make him happy if he so desires.. after all what does a son know of his fathers birth

Dear friend ,

The Mool mantra states clearly as Ik Oangkar. He is one. So He has to be that way.

Please tell me as to why should we praise HIM. We do not know HIM and as per Gurbani it is very difficult to explain HIM and as such perceive HIM. So why praise HIM. That he has produced me. This he has done for Himself. I am HIs creation. Let Him take care Of me. It is just like a small garden that I have in my house and I water the plants so that they grow and I shall feel happy. That is all. What is the duty of a flower in the process. It shall be in the sun or in the shade if I want it so. The same thing is applicable to me also.

Whether He wants me to get merged with HIm or not ,it shall be HIS will, HIs Hukum or HIs Grace. There are so many ifs and buts that everything seems to be pre-ordained and we have no free will.

Dear friend,

Your question is very interesting. I would beg to differ here from my friends. Gurbani has stated about 10 months in womb.

Regarding the soul entering the newly born, it can be stated that as there is a life ,at least biological, there should be every presumption that soul should enter the womb as soon as the 'conception' takes place. It may be the zeroth day /first day. Scientifically speaking there appears a little logic that the soul enters the foetus in 4 month.

Thanks T singh ji,

As per your question as to what motivates one to sing HIs praises , I shall submit that I shall do with vigor as SGGS and Guru sahibaan has stated so. It is an edict for us. I pray to HIM for this reason. I have faith In Guru Sahib and so I am doing it.

I shall be grateful if you could let me know as to why should HE think me dear to HIM if I praise HIM. Since Guru Sahib has said so I do it . Since I do not know HIM I have little or no love for HIM. I have regard and fear of my Gurus only and that is a conviction enough to praise HIM. But most of my praise is directed towards my Gurus.

If my parents had not told me anything about God, probably I would not have thought anything about God. It should be true for many Of us.

Kindly do reply.

In the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, O Nanak, sing His Praises; they are so very dear to God. ||8||1||8||

The above line appears on ang 508[1] of SGGS.It is edicted that we should sing HIS praises and that those who does it are loving to God. Does GOd require this kind of sycophancy from us.? Is it really so. Should we praise HIM as He has produced me and has given me all kinds of things. Can you help me. i don't think that HE would like us to praise HIM. It i for us to remember HImas it gives us peace.

Thank you N30 jeo for explaining the meaning Of Naam.

If Naam is 'granted' by the Panj Pearey it would imply that the Naam has been given by the Panj Pearey and the person has to meditate on that 'word'/Naam. IN such a case how SGGS would be helpful as it is said that GURU helps in Naam Daan.

Further Naam is to be obtained under the guidance of the Guru and is also obtained by HIS grace. If the naam Granted by Panj Peary is the same naam that is talked about in SGGS ji then there is no need of GURU and none of HIS grace is required.

I hope you have got my point. It ,therefore, appears that the two naams are different.

Gita is supposedly to be the nearest spritual scripture and is said to be the closeast to SGGS.[prof. Sher singh]

1.Many a times The 'naam' seems to be a mystery. Entire SGGS ji is eulogisation of 'Naam'. However, there is no direct mention Of Naam. This ,sometimes, leads to confusion. Can anyone throw light on this. This Naam and the namm as is given at Baptisationby Panj Pearey should be different.

2.It is also stated that Naam should be recited as per the way shown by True guru. Can you throw light on these aspects.

In very generic terms The Bani that is in written form is referred to as Sabad guru. Bani has been said to be 'nirankar'. Hope it clarifies.

[/font:abf77f8e4f]Is it necessary to understand the entire Bani as contained in SGGS ji and other Granth. I am not very clear. Please advise. There are many lines that are not clear to me. Can I post them here for mutual benefit.?

Do you think that Gurumantar is to be used while 'Jaap' or in 'Simran'.I do use for Jaap only.