Maha Kharag Singh

ill tell you something never ever ever unless you some form of protection from Tantra or Kala Alam go to a Pir or Udhasi, because not all of them can be trusted. Usualy what happens is that these people will get rid of your main ailment but then give you a minor one which cause you to keep going back and give them money to "sort" you out.

With me the very first Udhasi dera that i went to was one which was in my family, some of you may have heard of Kala Sangha and the Baba Kahan Das Ji Dera, Baba Ji's gaddi is within our family (naanke side) and when i went there my Grandmothers brother told me about the order and he said that I had protection from any form of Tantra/ Kala Alam due to A) me being Amritdhari Wearing a kirpan and C) for being Nitnemi. And it was totally on that basis why i went to visit a few Hindu Tantrics and a few Pirs.

I once even tested a Pir Baba and i had an experience which i would never forget, which made me even more paka in my Nitnem, and after when i got back to Kale Sanghe i got shitttar from my Nanis Mama for testing the guy, because he said if he cant do anything to you he can send something to follow you and torment your family.

Because there are two types of Jadoo, one is Apaa Jadoo which involves rituals and the other is the most dangerous Masani, which is the type of jadoo which causes possesions because its the ruh of a dead person.

Apparently what they do is that they (the tantrics) wander around siveh and look for bones of the deceased, and its now common that there is always one person on guard whenever a funeral pyre is being burnt. Because its with the bones of the dead person they bring back its ruh and they bind it to do the tantrics bidding. And the most thing that the masani/ ruh wants is mukti and the tantric will make it do its bidding if it wants its mukti.

Theres two ways in which the masani can get its mukti one is by the tantric releasing it and the other is most common way, where whoever the masani possess will harm him/her so much until he/she comes to an untimely death hence releasing the Masani.

My Nanis mama also said that sometimes when he confronts these entities they ask for mukti but he cant give it because if he does then the person who the masani is possessing will take that person with it too. So he has to force the entity out by hook or crook, and sometimes he has to resort to beating the masani with his "Bhairo" da baseball bat until it leaves the poor person.

I know this is going to sound really weird and just to let you guys know I don't practice the dark arts but I have observed many exorcisms, by both Hindu rituals and Sikh'ish. It was just out of a general interest in this Grey area that lead me to do some research and see some of these rituals.

Since the topic is about Sikh perspectives on the issue of exorcism, from what I have seen its the Udhasis who have the knowledge on how to exorcise these Patit Aatmas. If memory serves me correct I think it was Baba Shri Chand Ji who saved the child of some shardhaloos from the clutches of a Rakshash.

Even though to the common eye the Udhasis seem to border between Hinduism and Sikhism, the rituals in exorcism do however involve an element of Islam, where names of Pirs are invoked.

There are two types of black magic, one is Tantra, and the other is Kala Alam or more commonly Sifli Alam. Tantra is the Hindu version and to counter act it the Udhasis would invoke Bhairo, Devi and the power of Mast Malangs, and to counter Sifli Alam (Muslim version) Pirs Malangs and Masts are invoked.

Even though spiritual intermediates such as Masts, Malangs, Pirs, Devi and Bhairo are used the main basis of the rituals were literally begging Almighty God to rid the victim of his/her ailment/s.

And i must say these events are very eerie indeed and in no way from my experience do i feel that it was an act, because there is always some flaw in an act which can give it away, but these that i witnessed were very real.

there is one spelling mistake and its a typing error im sure pm saab will not be nit picky

ye it was only put up today

ALL UK RESIDENTS SIGN THE PETITION!!!!!!

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/BanSinghisKinng/

AKAAL! SAT SRI AKAAL!

and can anyone whos a member of any other sikh forum please make a post with this link!

Well these leaflets are produced by groups such the British Organisation of Sikh Students, the Sikh Federation (previously known as International Sikh Youth Federation banned after 9/11) and a gang from the Southall area called Sher e Panjab.

They are obsessed with keeping Sikh girls in the Sikh community AT ALL COSTS. The reason being that because of a shortage of girls due to female foeticide (families often get an abortion if they know the child is a girl -astaghfirullah) there is a limited of females in the Sikh community for Sikh men to get married to. Now the problem is that many Sikh girls go out with Muslims and are attracted to Islam for the very simple reason that most often they get treated with more respect than in the Sikh community. Sikh males feel very insecure about this and have come up with all kinds of stories about Muslim males chassing Sikh and Hindu girls to convert them by force and work in brothels in Lahore. I know it sounds absolutely crazy but they feed Sikh youth these lies. Go on forums like www.sikhawareness.com or www.sikhsangat.com and you'll see plenty of anti-Islamic threads and posts. It is really disgusting!

this man is seriously dangerous. I think were in need of a fatwa Nihung Style, what i find so damning is his comment "Sikhism is a house of heresy that should be at best burnt to the ground."

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way to hit the nail on the head deepsingh! LOL!

heres a better one and quite freaky

sufi chanting

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xY2Fp1ZcChY&feature=related

what a admin cut.

prof surrinder singh has done it in raag at an akj event:

http://rapidshare.com/files/79728287/www.s...ee_Hoe.mp3.html

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shaheediya Brother you post has to be the best post of 2007!!!!!!!!!!!

laalsingh bach ke reh sin is heavy in your palla with these blasphemous remarks! BTW Satguru Gobind Singh Ji makes many references to the Respected PROPHET Muhhamad, in Satgur Dasam Granth Sahib. And if you question Satguru Dasam Granth then a question mark will be blatantly seen over your remarks and scholarly authenticity.

i have to say chatangas bulbulhampton or better still black country accent makes it impossible not to laugh!

better still just pick up a Budha Dal Gutka, the Sundar Gutka that is.

i would think it would be SAT

duz anyone know then wy shiv ji shed tears?

i think its when sati mata committed suicide that he shed tears.

veere as i said, science isnt certain whereas dharam is, at some points science will coincide with dharam and at other points it will not. Essentially its about trust and faith, when science leaves the palla of religion will your faith falter or will it remain atoot on amar dharam, which is certain and unchanging. About all that energy stuff, when i personally meditate the things that i experience are energy related (which i will not discuss any further as it is private to me) hence my view on God is formed on those experiences.

And there are many refferences in Gurbani relating to one primal ENERGY or SHAKTI as its translated into sanskrit/hindi/whatever.

And sometimes i feel that yes its sometimes best to remain an agiani that to have your sentiments surt when science goes up the back ally, but then that all boils down to how strong your faith is.

And to some extent i agree with your notion that using science as a medium can have an adverse effect, but then before the movement tof science towards atheism weren't science and religion drinking out of the same cup?

MKS,

Please do not call me “Bhai Sahib†as I have not done anything to earn such a title and in a time where certain personality cults and spurious writers have destroyed many other titles lets try and retain some authentic ones for their genuine purposes.

I believe Bahadur Ali refers to exoteric vs. esoteric traditions which is altogether different to what you are suggesting, which is:

“The Almighty is an energy, and intelligent energy one which we have not discovered and one we never willâ€

There are several issues I have with this suggestion and other similar pseudo-scientific notions that religious people like to put forth in frankly an absurd manner to support some notion in their scriptures or belief patterns. Mysticism does not need to be verified by Science, nor is there a need for a conflict between the two as the West largely have and continue to battle out. Fundamentally, if as you suggest “The Almighty is an energyâ€, why would we need to worship, pray, remember this ‘energy’, that seems little more than ancient man worshipping the Sun for its “energyâ€, hence providing further argument to the notion that religion is little more than superstition and quackery – surely this is not something you ascribe to?

MKS, I am well aware of “string theoryâ€, bottom line is only a theory and as you say, the famed “Big Bang†theory is now being challenged in scientific circles – which is precisely the point and my issue with Sikhs and other religious people looking to justify their beliefs through scientific means, pre-knowledge of String Theory, other Sikhs like you were positing the notion that Sikhi, unlike the Abrahamic faiths, doesn’t have a creationist myth, instead supports the notion of the Big Bang.

Now that the Big Bang is being challenged, you (the next generation of the “sikhi is a scientific religion†camp) are seeking to find support for the “Multiverse†concepts being developed within science – bottom line, science, by its nature, is subject to being reinvented as new discoveries are made, religion on the other hand, claims to be ‘universal’ and ‘timeless’ truth, why then are we combing the two?!!

So let’s leave String Theory to its correct field, which is scientific research and theory and not muddy religion with terms loosely borrowed from science such as “energy†and “power†(which incidently are quite precise in their use within their correct scientific context, unlike those who freely borrow them for pseudo scientific purposes) and seek to establish the flawed notion of Sikhi being a scientific religion where we keep our hair long because it is “natural†and somehow gives us “more oxygen†as middle-class Sikhs are frequently duped into believing by pseudo-scientific parcharaks.

Back to the wider point, please clarify or provide some more thought as to the assertions concerning Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj and Shiv Bhagwan, clearly it is something that you hold dear and indeed upon which you base your understanding of exoteric (e.g. Nihang Bana) and esoteric aspects of your life as Sikh, so surely you have thought through the subject matter to live life in that way, please could you share your thoughts as it is quite a fascinating notion.

Gur Fateh!

N.

Fateh!

N. Another view of mine is that Sikhi doesn't need to be ever subjected to questioning or justified for scientific approval. However if science is in favor of Sikhi then there is no harm in using science to propagate Sikhi by the medium of science. Some Sehajdhari Sikhs (in the extreme case of atheists or typical Punjabi background confused English desis) need such arguments to pull them towards the path of Sikhi.

But on the whole of your argument I do agree that Sikhi or Faith is amar its unchanging whereas science isnt certain.

Bhai Saab Ji, as i have stated before i have limited knowledge. These statements I have gained by doing sangat with some Singhs, in India and some Hindu Shaastris (a particular group who dont do murti pooja) therefore i dont have sufficient evidence or knowledge to support such statements. I put them forward merely as a perspective of some individuals.

Secondly, about the Shakti bit from my own understanding just like there are many levels one must surpass to reach The Almighty I believe that The Lord presents itself to that individual at that stage in the respective form or swaroop eg one gains Ridhi Sidhi. Just like Bahadur was talking about Sahariat Dharam.......Haqiqat Dharam where Shariat is the lowest and Haqiqat is that highest.

My personal view is that The Almighty is an energy, and intelligent energy one which we have not discovered and one we never will. As per Quantum Physics yes there are four fundamental energies. But just as the proton was thought to be a fundamental particle at one time in history and then proved to have inside a selection of quarks. There is one unifying energy which is uncomprahendable and wont be found.

We believe that emotion is our gateway to the house of the Lord, and that its through Bhagti Bhavana we gain the strength to knock at that door. But what is emotion scientifically they are chemical and hormonal imbalances which cause us to "feel" in that way. If these chemicals were to be broken down fundamentally they are stores of energy, and if one can ever identify which energy it is e.g. electromagnetic, then as i said there has to be an energy which is beyond these "four fundamental" energy which allows the universe to run like an engine.

And its that very energy that i feel Satguru Nanak was reffering to as everyone has that spark of God.

i would suggest brother that you do some research in to the String Theory, which is the the theory that one day will take over the Big Bang theory which has actually been disproved. In that theory it talks about strings of vibrating energy. Now if we were to put that into the context of Gurbani does Naad ring a bell. Where The Lord is the sound current which causes every thing to be.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

you forgot to add they are "gorreh" on top of all of that. what a typical pendu mindset.

hey dont be so discriminating! theres cheene and japanee in there aswell as well as kaale!

Maha Kharg Singh sounds like a tantric , with all his "RUDRA SHAKTI" .. LOL

aaja putar tere te mei tantra karda fer dekhda tere kol kere bhoot ounde ya paath karde vele!!!!!![schild=9 fontcolor=000000 shadowcolor=C0C0C0 shieldshadow=1]Aum Hreem Kleem Namah Swaha!!!![/schild]

Maha Kharag Singh, please explain your assertion of "rudra shakti" and with it give us an explanation of what "shakti" means and what the different types of "shakti" are.

Thanks.

Brother Niranjana, from what I have heard. Some people believe i.e. those who are worshipers of Shiva and/or Devi that Dasme Satguru was a Human Avtar of Rudra (Shiva's most fearful form) Shakti (his power) Hence why his affiliation with blue and the Dastaar Bunga and concept of Farla.

As per my limited knowledge, there is one main Shakti, the universal energy which is omnipresent and is the cause for all lifes existent i.e. the spark in the engine of the universe.

Then there are many Advait Shaktis (mystical) and then the lowly Ridhi Sidhi Nivasini Shaktis.

I would love to have your insight into this...

vijay whats all this low caste this low caste that and please clarify who you are talking about when you use references such as bazigar.

your english is terrible that why i cant make sense of what your saying,

malwe dea shera tu hi kuch dass ki eh vijay ki bhonk reha hai?

i dont understand this guy. do us all a favour. who's bloody side are you on and dont come out with im on both sides, next time please use names instead of references.

Gurfateh

There are gruop of about 1000 or more and do not want a low caste bazigar to be the Mukhi.

Legal position is still with low caste bazigar and jatts run here and there.

No split but guys made some wild statements against low caste bazigar but due to eduaction in low castes.

There has been a case filed onto them by low caste bazigar called defamation case.

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