laalsingh

What happened to your RN job? You have time to write these mega posts and I am even afraid to look at size.

Excellent debate. Need few more like this.

I have it on PVR. No idea how to bring it to computer.

Subconscious mind goes way beyond conscious mind. Depths are unknown.

Khalsa ji,

If we say that there was no woman in first Five Beloved, so there should not be any woman in Five Beloved, there was no white or black guy either. Many communities were missing there. Option to surrender head did not close on Vaisakhi 1699. Dharam yudh (spiritual and temporal) is always on.

There were five Sikhs ( and Sikh could be any human being, physically tyar bar tyar, armed and spiritually qualified as said by Bhagat Kabair on Ang 655). It does not matter Sikh is a woman or man.

Waheguru.

She is mad!

there you go!

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Punjabi Chamar is very rich and this is political move on their part.

I agree. This is a political move. Sgpc and Akali Dal tried their best to make amends. Sgpc chief even went to dera to see dera head, who refused to meet him. There was even a Akhand paath on Akal Takhat in memory of killed Sant. Anti Sikh forces wanted this to happen.

Dera has consolidated vote bank. Calling themselves different Dharam and making own maryada is a stunt to free themselves from any kind of objection from Sikhs. Now dera head can sit higher than book or lower than book. He can get matha tek as much he wants.

How can they blame others of casteism, when they are starting a new religion based on caste? They are following Bhagat Ravidas just because he happen to be from chamar background.

Why did it happen? Who will gain from it?

ਰਵਿਦਾਸੀਆਂ ਵੱਲੋਂ ਵੱਖਰੇ ਧਰਮ, ਵੱਖਰੇ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਅਤੇ ਵੱਖਰੇ ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨ ਦਾ ਐਲਾਨ

'ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ' ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਕਾਂਸ਼ੀ ਤੋਂ ਜਾਰੀ

ਜਲੰਧਰ, 30 ਜਨਵਰੀ-ਐੱਚ. ਐੱਸ. ਬਾਵਾ-ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ ਦੇ 633ਵੇਂ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਪੁਰਬ ਮੌਕੇ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਜਨਮ ਅਸਥਾਨ ਕਾਂਸ਼ੀ ਵਿਖੇ ਅੱਜ ਇਕੱਤਰ ਹੋਈ ਸੰਗਤ ਵਿਚ ਰਵਿਦਾਸੀਆਂ ਵੱਲੋਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਵੱਖਰੇ ਧਰਮ, ਵੱਖਰੇ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ, ਵੱਖਰੇ ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨ, ਕੌਮ ਦੇ ਮਹਾਨ ਪਾਵਨ ਤੀਰਥ ਅਤੇ ਮੁੱਖ ਨਾਅਰੇ ਦਾ ਐਲਾਨ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਗਿਆ।

ਉੱਤਰ ਪ੍ਰਦੇਸ਼ ਦੇ ਬਨਾਰਸ ਜ਼ਿਲ੍ਹੇ ਵਿਚ ਕਾਂਸ਼ੀ ਵਿਖੇ ਇਕੱਤਰ ਹੋਈਆਂ ਸੰਗਤਾਂ ਦੇ ਸਨਮੁੱਖ ਇਹ ਐਲਾਨ ਕੀਤਾ ਗਿਆ ਕਿ ਰਵਿਦਾਸੀਆਂ ਵਿਚ ਹੁਣ ਕੋਈ ਆਦਿਧਰਮੀ ਜਾਂ ਹੋਰ ਨਾਂਅ ਨਾਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੁਕਾਰਿਆ ਜਾਏਗਾ ਸਗੋਂ ਸਮੁੱਚੀ ਕੌਮ ਨੂੰ ਰਵਿਦਾਸੀ ਕੌਮ ਸੱਦਿਆ, ਪੜ੍ਹਿਆ ਅਤੇ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਜਾਏਗਾ। ਰਵਿਦਾਸੀਆ ਕੌਮ ਨੇ ਆਪਣਾ ਵੱਖਰਾ ਧਰਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਤਿਆਰ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਵਿਚ ਕੇਵਲ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਹੀ ਸ਼ਾਮਿਲ ਕੀਤੀ ਗਈ ਹੈ। ਇਸ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਨੂੰ 'ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ' ਨਾਂਅ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ। ਰਵਿਦਾਸੀਆ ਕੌਮ ਦੇ ਇਸ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਨੂੰ ਸੰਗਤਾਂ ਦੀ ਇਕੱਤਰਤਾ ਵਿਚ ਡੇਰਾ ਸੱਚਖੰਡ ਬੱਲਾਂ ਦੇ ਮੁਖੀ ਅਤੇ ਟਰੱਸਟ ਦੇ ਚੇਅਰਮੈਨ ਸੰਤ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਦਾਸ ਨੇ ਜਾਰੀ ਕੀਤਾ। ਇਹ ਆਦੇਸ਼ ਕੀਤਾ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਰਵਿਦਾਸੀਆ ਕੌਮ ਨਾਲ ਸੰਬੰਧਿਤ ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰਿਆਂ ਅਤੇ ਮੰਦਿਰਾਂ ਵਿਚ 'ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ' ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾਏ। ਰਵਿਦਾਸੀਆ ਕੌਮ ਨੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਵੱਖਰੇ ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨ ਬਾਰੇ ਵੀ ਫ਼ੈਸਲਾ ਕਰ ਲਿਆ ਹੈ ਜੋ 'ਹਰਿ' ਹੋਵੇਗਾ ਅਤੇ ਇਹ ਇਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰਿਆਂ ਅਤੇ ਮੰਦਿਰਾਂ 'ਤੇ ਲੱਗਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨ ਸਾਹਿਬਾਂ 'ਤੇ ਅੰਕਿਤ ਹੋਵੇਗਾ। ਇਸ ਮੌਕੇ ਇਹ ਵੀ ਐਲਾਨ ਕੀਤਾ ਗਿਆ ਕਿ ਰਵਿਦਾਸੀਆ ਕੌਮ ਦਾ ਮੁੱਖ ਨਾਅਰਾ ਹੁਣ 'ਜੈ ਗੁਰੂਦੇਵ' ਹੋਵੇਗਾ ਅਤੇ ਇਹੀ ਆਪਸ ਵਿਚ ਇਕ ਦੂਜੇ ਨੂੰ ਬੁਲਾਉਣ ਲਈ ਵਰਤਿਆ ਜਾਏਗਾ।

ਇਹ ਵੀ ਐਲਾਨ ਕੀਤਾ ਗਿਆ ਕਿ ਰਵਿਦਾਸੀਆ ਕੌਮ ਦਾ ਪਵਿੱਤਰ ਅਤੇ ਮਹਾਨ ਤੀਰਥ ਅਸਥਾਨ ਸੀਰ ਗੋਵਰਧਨਪੁਰ, ਕਾਂਸ਼ੀ, ਬਨਾਰਸ ਵਿਖੇ ਸਥਿਤ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਮੰਦਿਰ ਹੋਵੇਗਾ। ਅੱਜ ਇਸ ਮੰਦਿਰ ਦਾ ਸ਼ੁੱਭ ਆਰੰਭ ਕਰਦਿਆਂ ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਸੋਨੇ ਨਾਲ ਮੜ੍ਹਣ ਦੇ ਕੰਮ ਦੀ ਸ਼ੁਰੂਆਤ ਵੀ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਗਈ। ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਜਾਣਕਾਰੀ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਇਸ ਮੌਕੇ ਡੇਰਾ ਸੱਚਖੰਡ ਬੱਲਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਸੰਤ ਸੁਰਿੰਦਰ ਦਾਸ ਬਾਵਾ, ਸੰਤ ਸੁਰਿੰਦਰ ਦਾਸ ਕਠਾਰ ਵਾਲੇ, ਸੰਤ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਨਾਥ ਚਹੇੜੂ ਵਾਲੇ ਅਤੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ ਸਥਿਤ ਵਾਲਮੀਕਿ ਆਸ਼ਰਮ ਦੇ ਸਵਾਮੀ ਪੂਰਨ ਨਾਥ ਸਮੇਤ ਸੰਤ ਸਮਾਜ ਦੇ ਬਹੁਤ ਸਾਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਨਿਧ, ਹੋਰ ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਆਗੂ ਅਤੇ ਦੇਸ਼ ਵਿਦੇਸ਼ ਤੋਂ ਵੱਡੀ ਗਿਣਤੀ ਵਿਚ ਪੁੱਜੀਆਂ ਸੰਗਤਾਂ ਹਾਜ਼ਰ ਸਨ।

Just an opinion. Nothing more. I have no proof of anything. And at this point in time, the scholarship supporting the Kartarpur Bir is the best. But for myself, because of the aggressive Singh Sabha reactions, my doubt remains that something may be wrong somewhere. And not only for spurious bani like Mira Bai found in the Banno recension, but missing from the Kartarpur Bir.

You don't even believe in authenticity of Guru Granth. Everything including Guru Granth is a big Singh Sabha conspiracy for you.

The modern conflict in the Panth today is hugely a backlash against the Singh Sabha revision of history, even sincere Singhs honestly believe concepts written in Shri Dasm Granth are "against Sikhi message." So thorough has been the Singh Sabhia dominance of Sikhism and alienation from traditional sanatan world-view that some Singhs today don't even recognize Guruji's own bani.

Very smart. Now bring in Dasam Granth.

From this we get banning of granths like Gur Bilas, editings and questionable translations galore (just investigate the controversy between the Kartarpur bir and the Banno bir and the Sri Dasam Granth translation. Even Prem Sumarag was "edited" at one point by Bhai Randhir Singh removing all the sections which pertained to Jhatka), complete marginalizing and ignoring puratan sources, literally whitewashing and destroying traditional murals and art-work which had Vedantic themes devatay and avtaray, and revision of Sikh history WITHOUT the messy, loose ends of the rich Sant Mat Baba Dera tradition and Khatri Mahants.

Guru Teg Bahadur was not allowed to enter Golden Temple by Sodhis. Does being immediate family of Gurus hold any merit in Sikhism? Dhirmallias, Ramrais, Miinas etc.

What did you find in your investigation of controversy between Kartarpuri Bir and Banno Bir? You call it Boat of Mukti and still in doubt? You refused to take any viakhiya as authentic, now having doubts about Guru Granth too? Please enlighten us.

About pictures, Muslims and some religious Christians and Jews too look same, long beard and turban on head (though Shivji is clean shaven). Osama got more similarities in appearance with Baba Nand Singh than Shivji (with clean shaven face). So what is the point of posting pictures?

Hindu and Sikh did not have the same definition 120, 150, 200, 400 years ago.

I don't know history, but Gurbani addresses Sikhs and Hindus as different people. Nowhere is called Guru ka Hindu.

If it were so clearly distinguished, then why have Sikhs intermarried with Hindu families since time of Guru Sahibaan?

Majority of Sikhs including Gurus being from Hindu background/Not much malice between communities/lot of terms used for rituals very similar to Hindus. But intermarriage does not mean they are same. Many Rajput women were married to Muslim princes (like mother of Jahangir). Does that mean Hinduism and Islam or Deen e Ilahi are same religions? Reasons are political.

Why during the Indian Independence Movement did Sikhs align with Hindus?

Weren't Sikhs with British during '57 revolt? Weren't Purbia Hindus fighting alongside British against Sikhs during Anglo Sikh wars? Pakistan was helping Sikh militants in '80s. Your argument means shit.

What's with Master Tara Singh being a founding member of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad?

Line for teesra panth is very thin. Hindu born Nanak Chand Malhotra can be little pro Hindu due to recent Muslim atrocities during partition. Do I need to give you list of popular Sikh leaders who were not very comfortable with Hindu ideology in '80s?

Your posts are long. Rest later.

Hindu and Sikh modernly are political terms. Where do you draw the dividing line?

That goes for whole manas ki jaat. Where do you draw the dividing line?

guys we're all sikhs at the end of the day we can agree to disagree

Sikhs? Sikh of Guru Nanak does not go around taking charan pahul from every Amma or Baba or Bebe.

You can believe or blame anything you want. But you are not having a discussion with me about my personal experiences with Devi or what they could mean in a thread derailing about the RSS and onions. And none of you are explaining anything while attacking, derailing, promoting hostility, talk of banning, sending PMs accusing Hindu women as whores, etc. So stop pretending that you all are teaching me the beautiful truths of Gurbani in this discussion. You most definitely are not.

Lady, I never called Hindu women whores. I never PM'ed you and will never. I have no intention of teaching you Gurbani. But stop copying and pasting tuks from here and there to prove a point which suits teachings of your new Guru.

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ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਦੀਸੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਸਾਰੁ ॥

guramukh dheesai breham pasaar ||

The Gurmukh sees God pervading everywhere.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣੀਆਂ ਬਿਸਥਾਰੁ ॥

guramukh thrai guneeaaan bisathhaar ||

The Gurmukh knows that the universe is the extension of the three gunas, the three dispositions.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਦ ਬੇਦ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥

guramukh naadh baedh beechaar ||

The Gurmukh reflects on the Sound-current of the Naad, and the wisdom of the Vedas.

ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਘੋਰ ਅੰਧਾਰੁ ॥੧॥

bin gur poorae ghor andhhaar ||1||

Without the Perfect Guru, there is only pitch-black darkness.

~SGGS Ji ang 1270

Analyze this vaak: "guramukh naadh baedh beechaar."

The Gurmukh is learning/reflecting on the wise teaching/vichaar which is coming from Naad and Vedas.

Why analyze only one tuk, just because it has word ਵੇਦ in it? Analyze whole Shabad. Being Gurmukh is (same as) Naad (for Yogis) and contemplating Vedas (for Pandits).

ਗੁਰੂ ਦੀ ਸਰਨ ਪੈਣਾ ਹੀ (ਜੋਗੀਆਂ ਦੇ) ਨਾਦ ਦਾ (ਅਤੇ ਪੰਡਿਤਾਂ ਦੇ) ਵੇਦ ਦਾ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਹੈ।

Most of your post is OK. You just emphasize more on some tuks from here and there in your attempt to prove that sikhi is nothing but Sanatam Dharam.

It is not Vedas, what is being discussed. subject here is 'being Gurmukh'. But you picked a tuk anyway and used it in your argument. Word of God created this universe. Naad is sound current (or frequency) at which universe exists. Maybe Vedas say it. Maybe Bible says it too. But I know Guru says it.

Now be a Gurmukh. Listen what Guru is saying. Don't pick and chose tuks (from SGGS, hindu sites, number of hindu scriptures) to prove your point.

And Why oh why is that article linked here, to this debate if not further evidence of your incredibly distorted HATRED and misunderstanding of Hindu religion?

I never commented anything. I am just quoting. I don't hate hindus or anybody. We are debating here about your misunderstanding of Sikh religion. If you understand sikhi of Guru Nanak, you won't change your faith just because you felt something visiting a Saint . If you believe in Guru, you don't need anybody else. You signature says it well. For Sikh, The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi. You don't need to go to other mais or demi gods.

For purposes of clarity in this discussion: Hinduism is too many sects to count, but generally agrees on Sruti as being primary. Hinduism includes the truths of that Sruti which reflect the eternal Dharm, AS WELL AS all the legalistic innovations good and bad which make for a religion. Hinduism can be criticized. But Sanatana Dharma cannot. So I'm trying to make a distinction between the man-made parts of religion versus the pure truths of spirituality.

Harjas ji, pure truths of spirituality are in every major religion. It is not sole proprietorship of Hinduism or Sanatan Dharama or Sikhism. That is the reason writings of Muslim faqirs are there alongwith Vaishnav saints (which your RSS brother does not like and would love to delete).

By the way, why you only qoute Gurbani where vedas are mentioned or Hindu terminology is used. Shabads from Muslim Saints and from Gurus with Islamic tone are totally invisible to you. Your version of pure truths of spirituality contain only Hindu/Vaishnav names of Lord and Snatam Dharma only.

Why Laalsingh are the opinions of a member of RSS expressed on a Sangh Parivaar forum now propagandistically blasted all over Sikh forums?

And what really is wholesale copy and paste from hindu.net to a Sikh forum?

Truly Hindu's whose beliefs are deliberately distorted are hated and despised by Sikhs and not at all welcome.

No Sikh hates true Hindus, but they don't like misinterpretation from people like you and Tiwari, who come on Sikh forum or Gurudwara and preach that Sikhi is a mere sect of Sanatan Dharam or Harminder Sahib is a Shivalaya.

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Somebody may already have posted it. Ramakant Tiwari on his visit to Harminder Sahib.

MY RECENT VISIT TO HARIMANDIR SAHIB AT THE GOLDEN TEMPLE, AMRITSAR TURNED OUT TO BE A UNIQUE AND MEMORABLE EXPERIENCE. THE TEMPLE IS A UNIQUE SHIVALAYA WITH AMRIT-KUND AS THE JALAHARI AND SHABAD BEING POURED CONTINUOUSLY AS THE JALA OVER THE HARIMANDIR SAHIB.

DURING TWO DAYS THAT I SPENT THERE, I DEDICATED MY DEEP REVERENCE FOUR TIMES AT THE HARIMANDIR SAHIB, ACCEPTED KARAA-PRASAD SEVERAL TIMES, DECLINED & RETURNED THE LANGAR-PRASAD DUE TO PRESENCE OF ONION AND GARLIC ( INSTEAD, I ACCEPTED KHEER WITH DEEP REVERENCE ! ), VISITED SIKH-MUSEUM AND CAME OUT WITH BAD VIBES IN MY MIND…

HOW IS THAT SIKHS DID NOT PARTICIPATE IN THE 'RAMJANMABHUMI MOVEMENT' ? THEN FOR LIBERATION OF 'KRISHNAJANMABHUMI' AS WELL AS KASHI VISHVANATHJI ? DO YOU SIKHS BELIEVE, YOU CAN SURVIVE AND FLOURISH WITHOUT HINDUS ?? DO YOU SIKHS BELIEVE THAT SIKHISM CAN SURVIVE IN ABSENCE OF HINDUISM ??

Good one.

THEN TO MAINTAIN DISTANCE FROM HINDUISM, IT IS SAID THAT THERE HAVE BEEN ADDITIONS TO THE ‘SGGS’ BY SOME ‘FAQUIRS’. LET ME TELL YOU WITH MAXIMUM CONVICTION AT MY COMMAND, NO MUSLIM ‘FAQUIR’ HAD BEEN A TRUE ‘FAQUIR’. THEY WERE ALL MUSLIMS, OUT TO DESTROY THE SO-CALLED ‘KAFIRS’ AND CONVERT THEM TO ISLAM. HOW IS THAT THOSE ADDITIONS HAVE NOT BEEN DELETED FROM THE ‘SGGS’ THOUGH I AM NO AUTHORITY ON THE SUBJECT ?? THAT TOO, AFTER SO MUCH OF TORTURE AND OPPRESSION BY THOSE MUGHAL BIGOTS AND DESPOTS UPON THOSE BRAVE HINDUS / SIKHS ??

I just couldn't stop myself from posting these videos after looking at them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w6y02kS1vA

Sikhs of Nanak should be kings of halat and palat both.

When I was in my teens I took an heroic dose of psilocybin cubensis (magic mushrooms for the unintiated) and had the experience of being everything, everywhere, at all times.

"Something" watched as my puny and terrified ego was cornered and finally destroyed. At that point, something that was greater than I, became brilliantly bright and deeply loving at the same time. I don't know how long this lasted, but it seemed like an eternity.

At some point, I regained consciousness of my body and realised that I was lying prostate on the bare earth and was being inspected by the most beautiful creature I had ever seen. It was like a giant worm made of crystal light with wings formed out of rainbows.

In response to the question in my mind, the being told me that he was the god of the maggots and wanted to know why I had killed one of his children (I guess I must have killed one when I was cleaning up the freshly picked mushrooms). I mentally told the being that I was deeply sorry and that I must have made a mistake.

I wanted to know what the hell the being was, and it showed me how it was the living force that permeated every life form on this planet, and how its essence was universal. (At this point, I threw up and my vomit contained the galaxy we reside in and the larger universe in which our galaxy resides. All of these stars, planets, nebulae, and even the empty spaces in between, glowed with the same kind of light out of which the being was formed.)

For a long time afterwards I was able to see the living light in every tree, plant, flower, insect and human. Ever since, I've had a deep respect for every living thing. I fully understand now why some Buddhists and Jains carry their ahimsa to such great lengths, and why every religion and culture in the world has some form of ritual or prayer before they hunt and kill an animal.

Now, I guess you can say that this was just a chemical reaction in the brain, but phenomenologically I believe there is no such distinction between chemically assisted experiences and experiences which come as a result of brain change due to deep concentration and intense emotion.

I also believe that such experiences are completely personal and serve as individual signposts in our unique journeys. The only danger lies in idolising the experience and believing that they are of universal importance that need to be communicated to the rest of the world. For example, I would have been wrong to declare that the God of the Maggots was real in some transpersonal sense and I needed to adapt Gurbani in order to fit in with my individual experience.

Like siddhis, such things come and go, but ultimately it is you who have to adapt and utilise your personal experiences to make Gurbani a greater part of your life.

From the experience of family members, it is very possible to be taken advantage of by "miracle workers" and spiritual beings in order that you leave the path to Akal and worship them instead. Ultimately though, whatever powers such beings have, they all come from Akal, and bhakti and abhyaas place all such things in subordination to a Gursikh with great kamaee.

K.

Was it god or goddess? Must be mom. Dads are careless and give a damn about kids. Give us more details. Sangat is curious. Some people can tell gender of LIGHT, you can do better.

Kalijug ji, you are absolutely right. These incidents are just SIGNPOSTS and weak ones take these as final destination. Beautiful post (and experience).

Harjas Kaur Jee!

Devee Jee, Do you give Darshan, on YouTube etc., or just write.

ਐਸ ਪਿਆਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਜਰੂਰ ਦਿੳ। ਲਾਲਾਂ ਗਿੱਟਿਆਂ ਤੱਕ ਆਈਆਂ।