laalsingh

There are different levels of spirituality.

He is the greatest giver. There is nothing wrong with asking from Lord.

It is Bhagat Dhanna asking for daily stuff.

ਦਾਲਿ ਸੀਧਾ ਮਾਗਉ ਘੀਉ ॥Lentils, flour and ghee - these things, I beg of You.

ਹਮਰਾ ਖੁਸੀ ਕਰੈ ਨਿਤ ਜੀਉ ॥My mind shall ever be pleased.

ਪਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀਆ ਛਾਦਨੁ ਨੀਕਾ ॥Shoes, fine clothes,

ਅਨਾਜੁ ਮਗਉ ਸਤ ਸੀ ਕਾ ॥੧॥and grain of seven kinds - I beg of You. ||1||

ਗਊ ਭੈਸ ਮਗਉ ਲਾਵੇਰੀ ॥A milk cow, and a water buffalo, I beg of You,

ਇਕ ਤਾਜਨਿ ਤੁਰੀ ਚੰਗੇਰੀ ॥and a fine Turkestani horse.

ਘਰ ਕੀ ਗੀਹਨਿ ਚੰਗੀ ॥A good wife to care for my home -

ਜਨੁ ਧੰਨਾ ਲੇਵੈ ਮੰਗੀ ॥੨॥੪॥Your humble servant Dhanna begs for these things, Lord. ||2||4||

My curiosity is to know. What God does on the khatolee when Suhaagan is engaged in love with HIM?

Please listen. Guru Arjan Dev is singing.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਰਵੀ ਸੁਹਾਗਨਿ ਅਤਿ ਨੀਕੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਬਨੀ ਖਟੋਲੀ ॥੨॥੩॥੮੯॥

कहु नानक प्रिअ रवी सुहागनि अति नीकी मेरी बनी खटोली ॥२॥३॥८९॥

Kahu naanak pria ravee suhaagani ati neekee meree banee khaTolee. SGGS Ang 822

Balbir Singh

So Balbir, that is how you plan to meet God? You think He will be full of lust waiting for you in bed? Don't read tuks from here and there.

Yes, all gunas belong to Him including lust. He is enjoying pleasures of body in one person. He is devoid of worldly pleasures in another person. But that is not all. He is way beyond it. Satgur Says, ਜੋਗੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਜੋਗੀਆ ॥ਤੂੰ ਭੋਗੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਭੋਗੀਆ ॥ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਸੁਰਗਿ ਮਛਿ ਪਇਆਲਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥

Lord pervades all. He is all. ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਖਲਕ ਖਲਕ ਮਹਿ ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਸ੍ਰਬ ਠਾਂਈ ॥੧॥

If He has lust, in the same context, He has hunger, wrath, pride, jealousy and everything else. These are attributes of Maya and Maya is His creation. Lust being guna of His has nothing to do with souls willing to be one with Him. If He is husband in one tuk, He is kheer or raindrop or sun or musk at other places.

Listen you idiot, Gurudev is singing. Listen to whole Shabad, not tuks from here and there.

ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥Maajh, Fifth Mehl

ਤੂੰ ਜਲਨਿਧਿ ਹਮ ਮੀਨ ਤੁਮਾਰੇ ॥ You are the Ocean of Water, and I am Your fish.

ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਬੂੰਦ ਹਮ ਚਾਤ੍ਰਿਕ ਤਿਖਹਾਰੇ ॥Your Name is the drop of water, and I am a thirsty rain-bird.

ਤੁਮਰੀ ਆਸ ਪਿਆਸਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਤੁਮ ਹੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਮਨੁ ਲੀਨਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥You are my hope, and You are my thirst. My mind is absorbed in You. ||1||

ਜਿਉ ਬਾਰਿਕੁ ਪੀ ਖੀਰੁ ਅਘਾਵੈ ॥Just as the baby is satisfied by drinking milk,

ਜਿਉ ਨਿਰਧਨੁ ਧਨੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ ॥and the poor person is pleased by seeing wealth,

ਤ੍ਰਿਖਾਵੰਤ ਜਲੁ ਪੀਵਤ ਠੰਢਾ ਤਿਉ ਹਰਿ ਸੰਗਿ ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਭੀਨਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥and the thirsty person is refreshed by drinking cool water, so is this mind drenched with delight in the Lord. ||2||

ਜਿਉ ਅੰਧਿਆਰੈ ਦੀਪਕੁ ਪਰਗਾਸਾ ॥Just as the darkness is lit up by the lamp,

ਭਰਤਾ ਚਿਤਵਤ ਪੂਰਨ ਆਸਾ ॥and the hopes of the wife are fulfilled by thinking about her husband,

ਮਿਲਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਜਿਉ ਹੋਤ ਅਨੰਦਾ ਤਿਉ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗਿ ਮਨੁ ਰੰਗੀਨਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥and people are filled with bliss upon meeting their beloved, so is my mind imbued with the Lord's Love. ||3||

ਦਸ ਸਹੰਸ੍ਰ ਸੰਮਤ ਲਗੌ, ਦੇਖੌਂ ਦ੍ਰਿਗ ਲਾਈ ॥੯॥

For 10,00 years I will continue to watch over them. [9]

Over 300 are already gone. So what after 10,00? Ain't Guru eternal?

If a Guru is the sole necessity then why is a title of being called a Sikh etc a requirement for you?

I feel the Guru's have built a ground where one can nurture their bhagti and if the intuitive voice comes calling to divert to other Samparda's, then I don't see why it has to be debated or questioned.

If the inquiry here is about a road-map of where to go and how to get there, then you have a huge burden on your head as the directions will change depending on who you ask.

The Bhagtas say, "I don't know where you are at, but you know exactly where I am at, so you come find me". It is not necessary for a Bhagta to go out searching, it is said that when the disciple is read, the Guru comes to find him/her. Are we ready?

Your last sentence implies 'disciple being ready' is also necessary. Ain't 'being ready' and 'out searching' same thing?

Lust or Kaam- It is physical need. It is obstacle in our spirtual development and must be kept in check. It is byproduct of our ego. Kaam is wanting sexual pleasure. It is selfish and for own physical needs. There is no longing to unite with beloved. You can satisfy kaam by mastrubating or hiring a hooker. There may be some point where Kaam and Love overlaps. But uniting of Souls with Husband Lord has nothing to do with Kaam. Rather Kaam must be get rid of to be one with Lord.

ਸਬਦਿ ਰਤੇ ਸੇ ਨਿਰਮਲੇ ਤਜਿ ਕਾਮ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ॥Those who are attuned to the Shabad are spotless and pure; they renounce sexual desire, anger, selfishness and conceit.

Love or Ishque- It is longing to unite with beloved. Souls are brides looking for invitation from Husband Lord to unite with Him. Words like 'one night', 'bed', 'enjoy the bride' are used. It does not mean souls are looking for sexual relationship with Lord.

Look at similarity between souls looking to meet Lord and bride looking forward to the night when she meets her husband, whom she has never saw (same can be said of soul). Only other people had tried to explain Him. Bride and soul both think their present home is temporary and real home is with Husband or Lord (in rural Punjab of those times). Similar longing can be found in chatrik looking for rain drop, kid wanting kheer, bumble bee going for fragnace, deer going for hunter's bell, fish for water, chakvi for sun, cocoo for mango tree etc. Satguru says,

ਚਕਵੀ ਸੂਰ ਸਨੇਹੁ ਚਿਤਵੈ ਆਸ ਘਣੀ ਕਦਿ ਦਿਨੀਅਰੁ ਦੇਖੀਐ ॥The chakvi bird is in love with the sun, and thinks of it constantly; her greatest longing is to behold the dawn.

There could be physical aspect in this longing by Chakvi, but common in all these examples given by Guru Saheban and Bhagats is 'longing for beloved'. In the same Shabad,

ਨਿਸਿ ਕੁਰੰਕ ਜੈਸੇ ਨਾਦ ਸੁਣਿ ਸ੍ਰਵਣੀ ਹੀਉ ਡਿਵੈ ਮਨ ਐਸੀ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਕੀਜੈ ॥Like the deer in the night, who hears the sound of the bell and gives his heart - O my mind, love the Lord in this way.

God has lust. Lust is also Godly.

Line is a nice dialogue for modern dera sadhs like Sacha Sauda and Ashutosh to say to young chelis before inviting them to bed.

Another factor to consider is like it or not, Islam is here to stay.

Nothing is here to stay. Keep watching. In our tiny lifetimes, this 'Bachitar Natak' will bring in those twists, we can't even imagine.

Would you like to be an actor in this 'jagat tamasha' or would just love to watch it sitting on sidelines?

Why are you so obsessed with lust?

Oops, missed the link.

http://hamdardweekly.com/_case/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=60&page=view&catid=137&tmpl=component&key=10&hit=1&uid=0

In the above tuk I think the word mudh (ਮਧ) has been translated as honey. I've never heard this before? I always though it referred to wine? Has anyone else ever heard of honey being referred to as mudh(u)?

Mudh is honey. ਤੇਰੀ ਚਾਲ ਸੁਹਾਵੀ ਮਧੁਰਾੜੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ Also ਜਿਉ ਮਧੁ ਮਾਖੀ ਤਿਉ ਸਠੋਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਜੋਰਿ ਜੋਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਕੀਆ ॥

Mud is intoxication.ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਮਦੁ ਜੋ ਪੀਵਤੇ ਬਿਖਲੀ ਪਤਿ ਕਮਲੀ ॥

Another rebuilt mosque returned to Muslims few day back in Samrala.

Another picture of event. Muslims pray while Sikhs watch.

lol

I did not pipe up when Bahadur was on about the line of Bhai Gurdas's Vaar regardingh 'Mohammad Yaara'

It was quite obvious he was self taught and not by an ustaad on granths. The word Yaaras refers to Mohammeds friend namely the four caliphs Abu Bakar, Umar, Uthman and Ali

Being a Shia, he overlooked Haq Char Yaar.

Basically this guy is trying to say that 1984 riots should be celebrated .I hope our soormay from canada

will not hesistate to take any kind of action against this guy

That is exactly what people behind this idiot want it.

We are making it too difficult. If ਯਾਰ word is adjective for Mohamad, it would have been ਯਾਰੁ or ਯਾਰ, not ਯਾਰਾ. 'Yaara' here looks like third person being addressed to (like poets do, there must be a term for it). One thing is certain that Mohamad is not a 'Yaar' of Bhai Gurdas and definitely not 'Yaar' of Lord.

Word 'yaara' is used with Mohamad's name twice. It could mean 'prophet' or 'guide' in Abrahamic vocabulary. Torah is also said to be derived from Hebrew word 'yara' meaning 'to guide'. I am not sure but it is a possibility.

http://strongsnumbers.com/hebrew/3384.htm

NASB Word Usage

archers (2), archers shot (1), archers* (2), cast (3), cast them down (1), directed (1), instruct (4), instructed (1), instruction (1), instructs (1), laid (1), point (1), points (1), rain (1), set (1), shoot (10), shot (3), shot through (1), showed (1), taught (3), teach (27), teacher (2), teaches (2), teaching (1), throws (1), watering (1).

ਬਹੁ ਵਾਟੀ ਜਗਿ ਚਲੀਆ ਤਬ ਹੀ ਭਏ ਮੁਹੰਮਦਿ ਯਾਰਾ ।

When varied sects got prevalent, then Muhammad, the friend (yaaara)of God was born.

and

ਕੇਤੇ ਬੇਦਿ ਬਿਆਸ ਕਰਿ ਕਈ ਕਤੇਬ ਮੁਹੰਮਦ ਯਾਰਾ ।

He has created many a dear personality such as Vedavyas and Muhammad dear to the Vedas and the Katebas respectively.

Is ਯਾਰ a good word? How we came to this translation (beloved of God)?

In Vaar 36, Bhai Gurdas says

ਚੋਰੁ ਯਾਰੁ ਜੂਆਰਿ ਹਉ ਪਰ ਘਰਿ ਜੋਹੰਦਾ ।

I am a thief, adulterer; gambler who always keeps his eye upon other's household.

ਯਾਰ here is adulterer.

Keep reading what happens afterwards where Mohamad is called ਯਾਰ. He does not look like beloved of God.

ਬਹੁ ਵਾਟੀ ਜਗਿ ਚਲੀਆ ਤਬ ਹੀ ਭਏ ਮੁਹੰਮਦਿ ਯਾਰਾ ।

When varied sects got prevalent, then Muhammad, the beloved of God was born.

ਕਉਮਿ ਬਹਤਰਿ ਸੰਗਿ ਕਰਿ ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਵੈਰੁ ਵਿਰੋਧ ਪਸਾਰਾ ।

The nation got divided into seventy two divisions and many types of enmity and opposition erupted.

ਰੋਜੇ ਈਦ ਨਿਮਾਜਿ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਮੀ ਬੰਦਿ ਕੀਆ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ।

The world was bound to roza, id, namaz, etc.

ਪੀਰ ਪੈਕੰਬਰਿ ਅਉਲੀਏ ਗਉਸਿ ਕੁਤਬ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਖ ਸਵਾਰਾ ।

Pirs, paigambars aulias, gaus and qutabs came into being in many countries.

ਠਾਕੁਰ ਦੁਆਰੇ ਢਾਹਿ ਕੈ ਤਿਹਿ ਠਉੜੀ ਮਾਸੀਤਿ ਉਸਾਰਾ ।

The temples were replaced by mosques.

ਮਾਰਨਿ ਗਊ ਗਰੀਬ ਨੋ ਧਰਤੀ ਉਪਰਿ ਪਾਪੁ ਬਿਥਾਰਾ ।

Less powerful were killed and thus the earth became replete with sin.

ਕਾਫਰਿ ਮੁਲਹਦਿ ਇਰਮਨੀ ਰੂਮੀ ਜੰਗੀ ਦੁਸਮਣਿ ਦਾਰਾ ।

Armenians and Rumis were declared apostates (Kafirs) and they were decimated in the Battle fields.

ਪਾਪੇ ਦਾ ਵਰਤਿਆ ਵਰਤਾਰਾ ॥੨੦॥

The sin became ubiquitious all around.

i think it is time for another movement. everything has its time. only guru is true and timeless. if the sikh groups before singh sabha had been perfect it would have never arisen. if we want to go back to roots then rozanaspokesman is trying same thing. only he is going as back as guru nanak and discarding everything that came after him as being 'corrupted'.

And how will rozanaspokesman know what Guru Nanak said originally? He got some kind of time machine to retrieve Pohti Sahib from Satguru's jhola.

You are also implying that Gurus from 2nd onward are not Gurus.

Joginder Singh is typical pakhandi with one point agenda of collecting money. One day he says Guru Granth has been altered, next day he says It is Jugo Jug Atal.

Truth. What truth?

How do you know it is a > b > c? Maybe you have been misled whole life. Maybe real sequence is z > y > x. One sees truth as one receives it or deduce something from it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwgsJellqdE

Good one.

THE FINAL INSULT:

The Grave of Holy Prophet Muhammad is a source of blessing and light and has been revered by generations after generations sinc the time of Sahaba till this day. No Muslim has ever dared to violate the sanctity of this Holiest of the Holy Shrines. But this so-called Aashiq-e-Rasool and Fana fir Rasool did not even spare that. May Allah forgive me for quoting such profanity:

"And God chose such an ignominious place to hide/bury the Holy Prophet that is awfully stinking and dark and cramped and the place of excreta of insects..." (Roohani Khazain vol.17 p.205)

View of fellow Muslim

When Mirza Saheb was about 38 years old his father died and Inspirations and revelations started showering on him like rain. Were these really inspirations or an indication of mental illness? He sustained the first attack of hysteria when his son, Basheer I, dies. When he undertook second marriage, he was IMPOTENT. Then upon divine inspiration he prepared a potion, 'DIVINE CURE', its main constituent was OPIUM. During his correspondence with Hakeem Nuruddin, he admitted to be suffering from following sicknesses. Here you must remember that Mirza was taught medicine by his father. :

* Melancholia

* Hypochondriasis

* Insomnia

* Diabetes

* Amnesia

* Urinating 100 times a day

* Attacks of hysteria

* Attacks of fits of heart

* Attacks of unconciousness

And on top of all these sicknesses, use of OPIUM and ALCOHOL!!

In other words MENTAL SICKNESS + OPIUM = HALLUCINATIONS which he misinterpreted as INSPIRATIONS.

Perhaps you might think that previous Messengers were also accused of being mental case by their opponents, so it is no big deal if we also call Mirza Saheb the same. BUT let me clear the confusion. NO PROPHET of Allah has ever labelled himself as a mental case, a lunatic. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is the only claimant of prophethood who had admitted in his writings being mentally sick.

It was the sequel of his Mental Sickness + Opium that when Britihsers decided to create an Imposter 'Apostolic' Prophet to eliminate t

he spirit of Jehad from the hearts of Muslims, they searched for a proper person. Finally they chose the mentally defected son, an opium/alcohol user and pusher, of their ancestral servant, Mirza Ghulam Murtaza, who had proven his loyalty by supplying 50 armed horsemen to fight against the Muslims in the freedom struggle of 1857.

http://alhafeez.org/rashid/ishq/ishq.htm

This is interesting (from 1936). I don't know if it is written by a Sikh convert? Sardar Piara Singh aka Muhhamad Yusuf Granthi.

I get the feeling that the introduction and proliferation of the common medium of English and the printing press led to lively and contentious debate between faiths in the mid 30s of the 20th century.. There is an attempt to liken Sikh doctrine with that of the Quran. There is also a direct rebuttal of accusations of the supposed heresy that probably led to the attack in the OP on page 2.

http://aaiil.org/text/articles/aaiiltractseries/1936/05may/aaiiltractseries1936may.pdf

Book is a lie. I stopped at second page. It says that Ahmadi belief is 'God encompass all'.

Every weekend next to my work, Ahmadiyas set up a flea market style shop with literature written by Mirza and others. A scholar of Ahmadiyas debated me for an hour saying that God is separate from creation and it is not 'Khalak khalk, khalk mhe khalak'.

Isn't it ironic that they claim Guru Nanak was Muslim, but themselves are declared Non Muslims in Pakistan?

Where men are more inclined towards in preserving their religion or culture women on the other hand can get easily carried away when they see their prince charming.So may even after doing all you have said we may not get desired result because we cannot change what is natural.

Very well observed. We can't say that it is true for all but it is true for most cases.