BhagatSingh

See this thread where we discussed different perspectives.

Start from Wakeup's comment and keep reading the remainder of page 2 and page 3.
 

1 minute ago, sarabatam said:

Totally agree, well put and well understood ~IkOngkar~

In order to see other perspectives, you must contemplate how one Beingness, Consciousnes, can be perceived as Energy or Time by Saints from different traditions.

Then you will enjoy the taste of Chandi di Vaar (the eulogy of Energy) and Bichitra Natak (the eulogy of Time).

2 hours ago, paapiman said:

@BhagatSingh - Please have a look below.

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio.php?q=f&f=%2FGurbani_Santhya%2FBhindran_Taksal_Santhya

Thanks for the link Paapiman.

One thing I like is that he teaches how to pronounce Siharis correctly and to enunciate words clearly but other than that basic stuff I am not impressed at all.

First of all -

Ik Onkar is not pronounced as Ik Oankar.

Aida is silent and is only a placeholder for Tippi.

2. He is not pronouncing any bindis even on words where clearly there is a bindi ie plural nouns.

These two things are common knowledge and seems to be lost on the paathi sahib.

3. We haven't even got to pronouncing Siharis and Aunkars at the end of words and pronouncing D/J as Z, and all that good stuff, which are not common knowledge.

The rest of the recitation is the same as how everyone else does it. If this is the best we've got, then I am not impressed by what our best is offering.

On 4/8/2018 at 7:58 AM, paapiman said:

The Arabic word "Hadrat" or "Hadhrat" is pronounced as "Hazrat" in Urdu/Persian.

That explains why in Gurmukhi we say Z for these words because we were influenced by Persian and not Arabic.

In Arabic its not Hadrat or Hazrat but rather Hadhrat; Qazi is Qadhi.

If Gurus had known this, then they would have spelled such words with Dhadha, clearly.

However they spell these words with Dadda and more commonly Jajja. So it seems to me that they are indicating a Za sound.

21 hours ago, Xylitol said:

Just the DDT style. Punjabi University of Patiala models their Punjabi and their attempts to standardize Punjabi on Taksal's santhya b/c they feel that the Taksal has preserved the original language best. 

How can I listen to Taksal santhya online?

4 hours ago, samurai2 said:

I dont mind playing ignorance as long as you can answer questions not dodge them.

I answered all of your questions above.

If you have any more or if you want more clarification, you can message me or start a new topic.

Let's get back to the topic of this thread.

4 hours ago, samurai2 said:

As is allah mahakall shiva smelly socks etc...

Allah, Mahakal, Shiva, yes.

Smelly socks... no but if that's what you meditate on then more power to you.

4 hours ago, samurai2 said:

geographic meaning in areas where sikhi arose was predominantly hindu

Hindu refers to any native living south of the Sindh river. That is what I mean by geographical identity.

Just like Turk can mean geographical identity or religious identity.

E.g. A Sikh who is a native of Turkey, is a Turk but not a Muslim.

Does that make sense?

34 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Daas never knew the meaning of that word when I heard this song many years ago. It just sounds funny.

ਛੂਈ ਮੂਈ is a special kind of weed, which reacts when you touch it (or go near it).

which reacts when you touch it - this is important to the definition of the word.

ਛੂਈ - touch

ਮੂਈ - death

1 hour ago, samurai2 said:

who is "
Vishnu?? 

Vishnu is name of that essence which pervades the cosmos.

1 hour ago, samurai2 said:

we sikhs are defo  hindu

As geographical identity yes, but not as a religious identity.

3 hours ago, paapiman said:

ਛੂਈ ਮੂਈ - A weed plant

5 hours ago, Xylitol said:

There was always a theorized missing link between humans and apes. Well, not too long ago the remains of humanoids were found that were placed so far back in the evolutionary past that the current, updated theory of evolution is that humans evolved from other human species, not from apes. It usually takes a long time for popular science to catch up with actual scientific discovery so you might not hear about this 

Evolution doesn't say that Humans evolved from Apes. Evolution states that Apes and Humans are two different species, both of which have a common ancestor.

5 hours ago, samurai2 said:

Bhagat- you have some big time ego issues.  

ppl on this site are just pumping you up as they love your art , which is very good but i prefer/appreciate Kanwar Dhillon's expression. 

One thing i do not get, if vishnu/bism etc is guiding you/talking to you/is your inner guru, how the hell did it take you so long to read gurbani when according to your mat the adi granth is all based on Hari/vishnu??

the sihari's etc is actually comical to me, just surprised other members haven't circled you,  lets call it Vaheguru's khed.  

I have an ego, haumai, which is why I have attached myself to Akal Purakh Sahib's feet.

While I am attached to his feet, I can easily drop the burden of the ego, and be a free-flowing vessel of Akal Purakh Sahib.

And that's the process whereby I create my paintings.

You don't have to like my work. It doesn't effect me.

I know what kind of things you say about me on the forums. You don't have to like me either. It doesn't effect me.

I don't think people on this site are pumping me up, I think they always speak their mind and always challenge me to do better.

They always disagree with me if they feel disagreement and they agree with me, where they feel agreement.

I appreciate them for that.

I think they are good people and I need their disagreements in order to improve myself and refine my views.

In Guru Granth Sahib, Akal Purakh Shaib is known as Hari and Ram.

The stories in Guru Granth Sahib are stories of Hari and Ram, meaning they are stories of Akal Purakh Sahib, and in those stories his name is Hari or Ram.

The saints whose bani appears in Guru Granth Sahib, always chanted "Hari" and "Ram". These are the two mantras that appear again and again in Gurbani.

This is not my belief, this is simply an observation.

I think it is self-evident to anyone who studies Guru Granth Sahib.

I've been reading Guru Granth Sahib my whole life. But my reading has improved in the recent years due to Akal Purakh Sahib's blessing.

Since we are told not to pronounce Siharis, I never pronounced them until a few years ago when I started to discover that they are important in the pronunciation of a word that ends in a sihari.

It took me some time after that to confirm that indeed, all siharis at the end of a word are pronounced.

And part of that confirmation process has been to talk to members here and take into account their views.

49 minutes ago, amardeep said:

Awesome thanks for input, I’ll take further look at the text tonight 

It might help to look at the context of the verse as well.

Now imagine if Guru Sahib was wearing Seli and Topi in the movie, like he did in actual life...

These guys would go mad.

22 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Well, you kind of went off-topic first.

I did go off topic first but I was not talking about going off-topic.

I was saying that the differences between the Punjabi and Hindi speakers, is irrelevant to the discussion. Since the discussion is about about how to speak Punjabi accurately.
 

Quote

There is nothing wrong with native Punjabi speakers saying Sidh Gost and Guru Hargobind instead of Sidh Gosti and Guru Harigobind.

There is nothing wrong with it, as long as it is recognized to be slang or informal pronunciation and not the correct pronunciation of those words, especially by those who seek to learn the correct pronunciation of Gurbani.

See the examples I gave earlier -

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ is correctly pronounced as Amritsar, not Ambarsar.

ਹਰਿਮੰਦਰ ਸਾਹਿਬ is correctly pronounced as Harimandar Sahib, not Harmandar Saab.

ਸਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਕਾਲ is correctly pronounced as Satye Shree Akaal, not Sasreekaal.

Here the common way of pronouncing the words, is wrong or informal or slang.

Add these to the above list -

ਸਿਧ ਗੋਸਟਿ is correctly pronounced as Siddh Goshti, not as Sidh Gost.

ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ is correctly pronounced as Guru Hari Gobind, not as Guru Hargobind.

3 hours ago, amardeep said:

Thanks for the mahankosh.  What do you think about a possible alternative translation?

I think your alternative translation is more accurate because here -

ਗਿਆਨੁ ਗੋਸਟਿ ਚਰਚਾ ਸਦਾ ਅਨਹਦਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਉਠੇ ਧੁਨਕਾਰਾ।

Discussions for the sake of knowledge and the melodies of unstruck sound were ever heard there.

- The word is Gyan is with an aunkar, which indicates singular, masculine word - knowledge.

It does not indicate "of knowledge" otherwise there would be a sihari on Gyan, and it would be Gyani.

19 hours ago, amardeep said:

Or should there be commas inbetween such that Gian is not related to the other two words:

ਗਿਆਨੁ, ਗੋਸਟਿ, ਚਰਚਾ, ਸਦਾ ਅਨਹਦਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਉਠੇ ਧੁਨਕਾਰਾ।

[In the city of Kartarpur] wisdom was passed [from the Guru to his Sikhs],  spiritual sermons were held and discussions took place, all the while melodies of unstruck sound were heard at all times.

This is more accurate for that reason because it accounts for wisdom separately

Now one more thing -

ਸਦਾ ਅਨਹਦਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਉਠੇ ਧੁਨਕਾਰਾ।

Look at this part more closely.

Sada (always)

anhadi shabdi (through the unspoken words, or of the unspoken words)

uthai dhunkaara (arose the melodies)

Wisdom, spiritual sermons and discussions took place, all the while melodies of the unspoken words, arose at all times.

Now if you look even closely -

There is a quality to stuff is that is said, that is spoken, and there is a quality to stuff that is not said, that is not spoken.

The author is talking about spoken words in the first half and the unspoken words in the second half.

ਗੋਸਟਿ ਚਰਚਾ - spoken words

ਅਨਹਦਿ ਸਬਦਿ - unspoken words

So there are melodies of discussions (spoken words) and melodies of unspoken words -

Wisdom, and the Vibrations of discussions and silence were always present there.

I am not sure which of the two is more accurate.

21 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Well, Punjabi is pronounced differently that Hindi.

That's no reason to eat siharis for breakfast.

It also does not apply to this discussion since we are not talking about the difference between the two languages rather we are talking about how to pronounce Punjabi more correctly.

Quote

For example, many Punjabis will say Harmandar Saab, while Hindi native speakers will pronounce it as Harimandir Sahib.

I wouldn't say that is Punjabi.

That is more akin to slang like "gonna" and "wanna", these are not English words, nor are they the correct way to pronounce "going to" and want to".

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ is correctly pronounced as Amritsar, not Ambarsar.

ਹਰਿਮੰਦਰ ਸਾਹਿਬ is correctly pronounced as Harimandar Sahib, not Harmandar Saab.

ਸਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਕਾਲ is correctly pronounced as Satye Shree Akaal, not Sasreekaal.

You are confusing slang pronunciations with Punjabi pronunciations.

And you are completely wrong about Hindu native speakers pronouncing Punjabi correctly.

They also say Harmandar Saab and Sasreekal.

especially Sasreekaal...

When did we devolve into this "Sasreekaal" BS?

1. Yes. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. No, unless it is your time.

4. No. It is not a hallucination but it is also not the ultimate reality. It is another transient, dream like this 3D world.

5. Yes.

6. a) Yes. b) Not sure.

My knowledge of Astral Projection is limited to what I have researched and hear from other people who have claimed to have done it.

However with regards to Samadhi I can speak from some experience.

7. a) Samadhi is related to astral projection in that doing meditation will help you project your consciousness outside of your body. Some people have had astral projection experiences while in samadhi state due to the absorption in consciousness and dissociation from the body.

7. b) Sachkhand isn't some place out there that you travel to. Sach khand is available here and now, and Samadhi is the act of merging with Waheguru and experiencing him here and now.

When the mind settles into its own awareness, then it comes to reside in Sach khand.

5 hours ago, paapiman said:

Source?

16 hours ago, H908 said:

in sidh gost katha

3 hours ago, sarabatam said:

Guru Hargobind Ji

I urge you guys to please eat rotis instead of siharis.

Leave my beloved siharis alone.

They deserve to live!

XD

1 hour ago, paapiman said:

I guess, ਗੋਸਟਿ is mainly used to refer to a spiritual discussion, while the word ਚਰਚਾ can be used in a variety of contexts.

Goshti means gathering so perhaps it is referring to a discussion in a gathering.

Charcha simply means discussion so it can be applied to any context.

ਗੋਸਟਿ  - Gathering

ਚਰਚਾ - Discussion