BhagatSingh

Even mughals kept long hair, which they tied up in their turbans. So did the chinese warriors.

Back in ancient India everyone had a joora! Back during the time of Maurya and the Gupta periods.

http://chalklands.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/osprey2.jpg

Should be:

ਮੇਰੇ ਦੇਸ਼ ਵਾਸੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਾਨ l

The pride of my countrymen.

or

ਮੇਰੀਆਂ ਦੇਸ਼ ਵਾਸੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਾਨ l

The pride of my countrywomen.

The first one can be used to refer to both men alone, or men and women together. While the second one is referring to women only.

Where did you get it from? I remember having this link with Gupta's History of the Sikhs Volumes 1-7, but I lost it.

edit: That's the one, thanks!

No I think it's just those dotted letters, not a template.

Apparently there are 3 more meanings. Check it out. It could be any one of them.

English Translation

(1) v.t. to fill up ditch, pit, etc. to take or fulfil a partisan stand,
stand by ones side of dispute. (2) n.m. letter written in pencil to be
written over by a learner child; ideal exemplary achievement (instead of "template")

ਮੈਂ ਮਾਝੀ ਇਲਾਕੇ ਦੀ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਬੋਲਦਾ ਹਾਂ

The ੇ is added because the person, object, idea, language, etc belongs to it.

"Main maajhe/duabe/ maalwe di bolli bolda haan."

This would be:

ਮੈਂ ਮਾਝੇ/ ਦੋਆਬੇ/ ਮਾਲਵੇ ਦੀ ਬੋਲੀ ਬੋਲਦਾ ਹਾਂ

ਮਾਝੀ ਦੋਆਬਾ ਮਾਲਵਾ become ਮਾਝੇ ਦੋਆਬੇ ਮਾਲਵੇ

Awesome responses above.

Curious Man

It says:-

The sun's rays appear as water (in a mirage) and this ignorance has created the world.

Basically, everything you see is Parmatma but you don't see the Sun rays (Parmatma), you see the water (world). The ignorance of not knowing this then has created the water (world) out of sun rays (Parmatma).

This is a good thread. Keep it running.

ਪੂਰਨਿਆਂ - Are letters written in dots so a child can trace over and learn to write the letter

Those are big questions. Start us off. Tell us what you think then we can start building on it.

Not that there is a lack of it.

Sometimes e.g. Swami Vivekand says that God and angels and spirits are all the projection of the Self/Brahman. He asks why is it that some see spirits and other a God.

But it doesn't have to be without a personal God.

For a bhagat, Hari has form, an image, and stories all of which are worshipped by the bhagat along with the name. A bhagat relates to Hari as if he were his friend, a partner, a husband. He can still do Raj Yog. Kabir, even though he is a theist, a Ram bhagat like his guru, he practices Pranayam, breath-control. He knows about the 6 chakar and the various channels that pierce them. And he can consciously move his breath through the chakars. That is part of his meditation on Ram.

Page 92

ਸ੍ਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕਾ ॥

Sri Raag of Bhagat Kabir ji.

ਅਚਰਜ ਏਕੁ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਰੇ ਪੰਡੀਆ ਅਬ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਹਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥

Listen oh Pandit, there is one wonder that cannot
be described.

ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਗਣ ਗੰਧ੍ਰਬ ਜਿਨਿ ਮੋਹੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਮੇਖੁਲੀ ਲਾਈ ॥੧॥

Heavenly Beings, Mortals, the celestial singers, the dwellers of the Three worlds: Heaven, Earth and Netherworld, are all roped to attachment. 1.

ਰਾਜਾ ਰਾਮ ਅਨਹਦ ਕਿੰਗੁਰੀ ਬਾਜੈ ॥

The meditation of King Ram is like the Unstruck melody of the Kinguri.

ਜਾ ਕੀ ਦਿਸਟਿ ਨਾਦ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

By His kind gaze, we are attuned to the shabad of
the Guru, Naad, that celestial sound-silence. Think about this.

ਭਾਠੀ ਗਗਨੁ ਸਿੰਙਿਆ ਅਰੁ ਚੁੰਙਿਆ ਕਨਕ ਕਲਸ ਇਕੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

ਤਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਧਾਰ ਚੁਐ ਅਤਿ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਰਸ ਮਹਿ ਰਸਨ ਚੁਆਇਆ ॥੨॥

My Dasam Duar is the distilling fire, containing a
golden pot, into which drips a gentle stream of the purest essence, through the
Ida and Pingala energy channels, which I taste with my tongue (when it utters
"Ram"). 2.

ਏਕ ਜੁ ਬਾਤ ਅਨੂਪ ਬਨੀ ਹੈ ਪਵਨ ਪਿਆਲਾ ਸਾਜਿਆ ॥

What is wonderful is that, I have turned my breath
into a pot for collecting this essence.

ਤੀਨਿ ਭਵਨ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੋ ਜੋਗੀ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਵਨੁ ਹੈ ਰਾਜਾ ॥੩॥

In the three, worlds, there is only one such Yogi, to which no king can be compared.

ਐਸੇ ਗਿਆਨ ਪ੍ਰਗਟਿਆ ਪੁਰਖੋਤਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਤਾ ॥

This knowledge of the Perfect Man (King Ram) has been revealed. Says Kabir, I am absorbed in his love.

ਅਉਰ ਦੁਨੀ ਸਭ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਨੀ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਮ ਰਸਾਇਨ ਮਾਤਾ ॥੪॥੩॥
He says, while, the rest of the world is living in ignorance (of Ram), and has forgotten it's true essence (Ram), my mind is intoxicated with Ram, that source of all essences. 4.

Page 333

ਗਉੜੀ ਬੈਰਾਗਣਿ ਤਿਪਦੇ ॥
Gauri bairagan Tipade

ਉਲਟਤ ਪਵਨ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਖਟੁ ਭੇਦੇ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸੁੰਨ ਅਨਰਾਗੀ ॥
I turned my breath inwards, and pierced it through the six chakras of the body, and my awareness was centered on the soundless void.

ਆਵੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਜੀਵੈ ਤਾਸੁ ਖੋਜੁ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ॥੧॥
Search for that who does not come or go, who does not die and is not born, O renunciate. 1.

ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਮਨ ਹੀ ਉਲਟਿ ਸਮਾਨਾ ॥
My mind has turned away from the world, and is absorbed.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦਿ ਅਕਲਿ ਭਈ ਅਵਰੈ ਨਾਤਰੁ ਥਾ ਬੇਗਾਨਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
By Guru's Grace, my understanding has been changed; otherwise, I was totally ignorant. 1. Pause.

ਨਿਵਰੈ ਦੂਰਿ ਦੂਰਿ ਫੁਨਿ ਨਿਵਰੈ ਜਿਨਿ ਜੈਸਾ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨਿਆ ॥
That which was near has become distant, and again, that which was distant is near, for those who realize the Lord as He is.

ਅਲਉਤੀ ਕਾ ਜੈਸੇ ਭਇਆ ਬਰੇਡਾ ਜਿਨਿ ਪੀਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥੨॥
It is like the sugar water made from the candy; only one who drinks it knows its taste. 2.

...

etc. After this he goes onto describe Samadhi.

So Raj Yog is not mutually exclusive from bhagati yog. In fact, any given meditator or bhagat can practice raj yog, bhagati yog, karm yog and gyan yog, etc together. These are the big names, there is also naam yog, kundalini yog, sehaj yog, etc that I have heard. They all have Patanjali's Yog Sutra principles in common.

I would say closest orders to Sikhi spirituality/Gurmat sidhant would be - sufism

Sufism is Islamic with its theology and practices. And Islam is Dvait philosophy. There is nothing common between Allah and the believer. The believer follows the teachings laid out by Allah, the all-knowing because the believer cannot know better.

This is the opposite to Advait and Vishishtadvait where God and the individual can become synonymous. Gurus are regarded as incarnations of God and possess His knowledge. This is contradictory to Islamic Sufi teachings.

In sikhi, sargun and nirgun are blended

beautifully and splendidly. However, other mats always are either nirole

sargun-vaishav or nirole nirgun- raw adi sankarcharya advaita.

What do you mean?

I remember you asking that. I think I saw Raj Yoga as similar to what I did at the time, which was an emotionless "focus on breathing" meditation. Except that there were the 8 steps and I only followed 5. But to answer the question, there's more to it. Those books clarified quite a bit of it.

I don't really remember what I used to think of it. How did I describe raj yog?

There's also Patanjali's Yog Sutr (one the first popular text written on meditation) and swami Vivekanand's Raj Yog. The former is fairly short, a quick read. The latter combines material from Patanjali's Yog Sutr as well as other ancient texts combined with Swami Vivekanand's insights and presents them very nicely in English.

Yog Sutr

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/ysp/index.htm

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/yogasutr.htm - another translation

Raj Yog

http://www.shardsofconsciousness.com/user/sites/shardsofconsciousness.com/files/ebooks/RajaYoga_Vivekananda.pdf

Not bhagati yog per se but the same principles apply.

Lol it looks stupid funny. I am not judging it until I see it. It's too in-your-face to be seriously anti-sardar, you know what I mean.

Satgyan Pujari,

I am not familiar with the teaching of those mahapurakh, I have only Guru Granth Sahib to look to. Do you have any of their katha related to the topic?

Das,

Just like the people viewing that car, the point of view of each individual reading the ancient texts, concept or any book, is going to be different, thus they will perceive it many different ways,

Would understanding those differing view points allow us to see the car more accurately?

Chakras not yet. Why are you seeing colours?

Nope nothing visual or auditory for me. Just blackness of the eyes and silence of the room. I am experiencing sensations down my spine. If there are Chakras I think this might be it. I can somewhat sense things in my pelvic region, my stomach region is active, my chest region becomes pretty active (and heart starts pumping or I notice it more), my throat becomes very tight and lots of pressure there. My forehead is the most activ, it feels like something is applying a lot of pressure there. And then I have these tingling sensations at the top of my head, sometimes there is pressure. Body also heats up a bit. Becomes more than relaxed. But at the time time becomes full of energy and sometimes start shivering and shaking.

I believe I am hearing the anhad shabad which gurbani says is the voice of waheguru. It's very weak but becoming more and more present. I can't make out the instruments yet, it is a very strange sound. Hope it will become more clearer as I learn to listen to it and absorb myself into it.

My experience of the Anhat (unstruck) is blissful silence. To call it silence does not do it justice.

Please note that my posts are my own personal experiences and I do not profess to be any kind of subject expert on the matter. Just a simple Guru Ka Sikh trying to walk on the path to meet my maker.... I leave the route he wants me to travel entirely in his hands.

Veera just seeing if we can compare notes if there was something common in our experience. I haven't had the sounds and stuff that you have experienced.

Look up Vishishtadvaita Vedanta (Qualified Advait). This is the line of Gurmat tradition that the Guru Sahibs and Gurus such as Ramanand and Kabir and before them Namdev and Trilochan are from. The Advaita Vedanta philosophy differs in that there is ultimately no distinction between the Atma and Parmatma/Ishvar. Whereas in Vishishtadvaita and Sikhism there is a difference until the Atma meets with Parmatma. Then it becomes one with Parmatma. This is the qualifier or the Vishisht portion.

One of the well known propnents of Advaita was Guru Shankara (Acharya is synonymous with Guru) and he taught that only through gyan of atma through going inward can we know our atma. And once we know our atma, we see that the Atma IS Parmatma. It is our lack of Gyan, our Avidya, that we do not see this and this causes Dukh. There is no separate Ishvar from us who we try to connect with. It is ultimately the supreme nameless reality, Brahman, which is perceived through our lack of Gyan as Atma-Ishvar, but really there is only Brahman.

One of the well known propnents of vishishtadvaita was Guru Ramanuja. His position is somewhat similar to the above. He taught that through loving worship of Ishvar ie Bhagati, the Atma can meet with Parmatma. There is an Ishvar that the Atma bows down to, pray to who responds to the Atma. And He by His love for the Atma (and vice versa) brings the Atma into Himself. The Atma is distinct from Parmatma as it lacks the Gyan and other characteristics that Ishvar has. Ishvar is Sarab Kala Samrath, Atma is not. There is a simultaneous sameness and difference between Atma and Ishvar.

Good intro to these philosophies by Nick Sutton

Sat have you ever had any experiences of teh six chakras?

Dasam duar?

Waheguru himself?

This should be fun. My answer to 1, 2, 3, 4, is Awareness.

Dally,

I just thought of something. Have you tried meditating on the "noise" in the gurudwara?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dark_singhni/

She's great,I know her from deviantart. I didn't know she was on Flickr as well.

Not mangafied AKJ, its Sikhs Mangafied.

what exactly have u been reading? read the puratan granths such as panth parkash or suraj parkash.

I assume you have read those, what kinds of things did they do? Perhaps, reproduce parts of the books here.

Our history texts are full of tales where magic was used, including magic spells etc in warfare.

Which battle was this?

I have been reading up on Sikh wars and haven't read a single word about magic from either side.

Anyways guys, thanks for the feedback, it was a pleasure meeting a new group of people!

Keep an eye out for that Baba Deep Singh painting, its almost done.

Fateh!

Bhagat Singh