BhagatSingh

Yo manz shud translate da guru granth sahib in2 msn language so homies like me can undastand da message of da guruz init. In da hood we need gianis dat can rap dem shabads so we can get da shabads init. Bare manz will come of the streetz to hear, trust me bredrin. Yo u backwardz folkz not know da power of fusion. Sikhz used to be sikk manz. get me?

Brap

Brap

hahaha, quite amusing.

"My Art is my religion and my aim in it is to give a form to the formless. Sobha Singh"

Yes, thanks to him, the hardy image of Guru Nanak Dev Ji (as per our puratan ithihaas) who travelled though the most dangerous places and difficult terrains on Earth, was transformed into Santa Claus.

If you cannot appreciate what Sobha Singh had done, you obviously won't appreciate my work or any other artist's work. I think Ill leave you guys to your issues... I have more important things to do than trying to reason with unreasonable people.

The Akali is the image of Guru Gobind Singh Ji!!! In actions, looks and thoughts.

An Akali snake charmer or similar IS offensive and degrading.

I know N30 said to start another topic, but Bhagat singh, there is a reason behind the colors worn by the Khalsa. As stated, Bhai Daya Singh, Guru Ji's closest friend wrote the white Kachherey should be worn. Why show anything else?

On a personal note: when younger, I would rather read comics based on real events (like the Amar Charitar series about Sikhi) than anything else.

You admit you haven't read (or heard of) our Historical Granths - trust me, there's more supernatural stuff than you can imagine. Haven't you heard of Baba Deep Singh Ji? or the fact that the ratio of Sikhs to Mughals at the battle of Chamkaur was higher than 1:125000? What about the true stories in the Janam Sakhis?

You have your heart in the right place, if you are going to do something, make it worthwhile.

Singh Saab those are either legends or heresay. Baba Deep Singh's head was not completely separated. His sotry was combined with a Jatt legend where this headless dude fights with his head in his hand.

You think janamsakhis are an accurate source of history? ok, but I would take those with a pinch of salt.

Can we get over that Akali Snake Charmer bibi. I have heard enough now. Read the comments underneath the sketch and the incomplete painting, before you post (about that particular piece). I honestly would like feedback on other things e.g. Mutants.

BTW What about a Nihang Dragon Rider?

My Art is my religion and my aim in it is to give a form to the formless. Sobha Singh

sorry i shouldn't have made a joke here, looks like this topic is going off tangent, please stick to the topic. If you wish to discuss kachera color, kindly make a another topic under formal debate discussion.

Sorry...

I beg to differ, the Bhai Daya Singh rehatnama says the Kasherra of an Akali should be white. If someone bothered to write it, it obviously mattered.

Not always the case, my friend.

Differ all you want. There is no evidence that kachere of puratan Singh were white, in fact no such rule was proposed by the Guru himself.

Man, they had MORE IMPORTANT things to worry about than white kachere.

Bhagat Singh,

Once upon a time the Sikhs were great musicians, they played the most elequent instruments in a skilled manner all in par with the traditions established by their Gurus. One day a creative musician experimented with a new instrument, as it is was something new he felt it would appeal to people and at the same time and they would listen to more gurbani. He was successful, more and more people began listening to kirtan. More and more artists began expressing their abilities with these new instruments that they would singh the Gurus shabads on. After all the method was not important it was the result that mattered - getting people to listen to kirtan. So successful were they in the objective that people stopped learning the traditional instruments, infact most people forget that there ever was such a thing as instruments made by the Guru. Even those who knew of them didnt seem to enjoy traditional instruments as much as the new musicians. No one ever understood that the use of new instruments was for the sole purpose of preaching to the uneducated villagers. And on the greatest stages where the best performers and the greatest musicians would present their art, that what was meant to preach to villagers replaced a tradition established by the Gurus and a tradition which existed in India for hundreds if not thousands of years. Infact, the tunes on these new instruments became more important than the divine hymns themselves.

That is simply human nature. And the story sounds made up. But it has to be a balanced Singh saab. You need good music and you need to good hymns to match. One either one is lacking than overall their is no significant effect on those who listen.

Similarly, there has to be a balance between fantasy and reality. In fact, the line between fantasy and reality has always been very thin. They just have to be in check.

I am up for doing Sikh history projects. Like I've mentioned, I have Bhai Sukha and Mehta's graphic novel planned. I am already working on Sarbloh Warriors.

Those who talk big words about history should step forth and help.

This is one of the many possible dangers of what you are doing. Children will become more concerned with these fantasy charcters than actual history.

Now this is a big assumption. Firstly, children are already into fantasy, they don't care about history. The youth that knows history will exclaim how proud they are proud of their history but sit on their ass all day.

Our great history books are gathering dusts in Gurdwara librarys all over the world, these texts were often written by those who had direct lineages to the Sikh Gurus.

Yes, that is happening already, without the introduction of superheroes or any other fantasy type.

Would it not make sense to try and bring alive the characters within those real history texts rather than make up characters?

yes it would! Did I not say I am up for that?? I want to do BOTH! Balance remember?

Even the making of characters is ok I feel, as Bhai Vir Singh made a success of it. But what you appearing to be doing is making up characters, traditions, history, practices and a whole new religion in itself?

Do you really think I am creating a religion? Oh please! I have had enough of "religion" already.

With Miri Piri (the one with Nihang necromancers) I am creating a world! You haven't even had a glimpse of that world yet. Even then you come to conclusions. On what basis?

Sikh Mutants was loved by every Singh and Singhni I showed the sketches to here in Toronto and Brampton. They totally loved it! Are they still Singhs and Singhnia? Yes. Do they think Mutants exist? No!

Veerji your comics may be a great success and people may love them, but what will have been achieved?

An good image/representation of Sikhs in the media, and of course personal satisfaction.

And so that this does not happen: "Q. What's with all the Sikh supporting characters, but no Sikh super-heroes?

So you noticed this, too? You tell me. It's the strangest thing. Sikhism is one of twelve classical world religions. More people practice Sikhism than Judaism. Perhaps best of all (for comics), Sikhs are easy to draw and they're very visual. Sikhs have their own visually distinctive ethnicity (although non-ethnic Sikhs can convert), their style, religiously significant apparel such as bracelets and, most of all, the turban. Now, many people who aren't Sikhs wear turbans (including Muslims, Hindus, etc.) But when you couple the turban with a surname such as "Singh" or "Kaur", and there you go, instant Sikh. How difficult is that?

Apparently not too difficult, because there are scores of Sikh comic book characters. Hadji Singh (from "Johnny Quest"), Punjab (from "Little Orphan Annie"), Randu Singh (ally of Jason Blood/Demon) and Tabu Jaswinder Singh (best friend of Thunderbolt/Peter Cannon) are some of the better known Sikhs from comics. Newer Sikhs include Omar, the Escapist's assistant (from Michael Chabon's The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay and the comics that came after it), Ajeet Patel (from Stormwatch: Team Achilles, and Lauren Singh (the girlfriend of new Marvel superhero Gravity).

But these Sikhs are always the buddy or friend or helper. They're supporting characters. They don't get the super powers, they don't get to dress up in colorful spandex costumes. They're not superheroes themselves. Why is that?

I even thought I found a Sikh superhero: Non-Stop wears a turban and runs a convenience store in the superhero parody "Minoriteam" on Cartoon Network. But then I found out that Non-Stop worships Krishna. He's a Hindu, not a Sikh.

So even teams that go out of their way to include ethnically diverse, racially diverse and regionally diverse stereotype characters> - teams like Minoriteam, Global Guardians, Cadre of the Immortal, Young Gods... even the "Super Best Friends" from South Park... none of these have a Sikh member on the team.

You know what it is? Partially, the problem is that Sikhs don't have their own state. Their homeland is Punjab, which is a province in India. So while every "international" superhero team anywhere has a Japanese superhero who can eventually be identified as a Buddhist or Shintoist or something, nobody has a Sikh superhero because once they added the Hindu superhero from India, they figured they were done.

So Sikhs are the world's largest religion that doesn't have it's own superhero. But at least they've got all these loyal supporting characters. That's better than Baha'is or Jains have, isn't it?

Still, whenever I see the list of comic book Sikhs I always think, "Always a bridesmaid, never a bride." Sorry, Sikhs."

People will become engufled in these fantasy characters and puratan sakhis will gather more dust.

I plan on doing both and have already started. This point is no longer valid.

People will become more obsessed with make beleive exciting stories and ignore real history.

This is why you do comics, games and stuff for both.

One thing I am afraid of is using actual characters and placing them in a fantasy environment. People won't appreciate the real character. That I would agree with, if that was the case. I feel I would do this if the situation was EXTREME, that is, if noone cared about Sikhi anymore, it was being disrespected, and was about to come to an end, etc, in that case you would revive old stories using sci-fi settings, new planets. Banda Singh would now span the galaxy taking of Mughal planets, and so forth.

Anyway, its normal fantasy with a Sikh twist like Dyanmic Singh ji stated. That is what I think of it as and thats why I made the Sikh X-men and Sikh World of Warcraft.

Yet how were they to know that magical stories had been written already centuries before?

Our history has no magic. If you think so then thats purely your opinion. There is no evidence of the sugared up history everyone talks about as magical. I am actually trying to preserve that history by not creating sugared up graphic novels on it like 300.

The fantasy and the history will become mixed and people will not care to differentiate between the two and it will soon be assumed that it was all just fantasy.

BIG assumption. No onee knows about the future. We will have to experiment and see. If the whole fantasy graphic novel doesn't work then obviously, the series will be stopped.

Also, I am trying to appeal to other audiences besides Sikhs.

Making a game a Sikh history will only appeal to Sikhs whereas as Sikh Mutants's video game will appeal to a wider range of audience.

When seeking to do something revolutionary rather than thinking what benefits it will have in 2 years time you must also consider the consequences in 10 years time. .

Yes I must.

The image, symbology and concepts sorrounding the Akali is considered sacred.

Explain.

If a Sikh cannot respect that then how are those who innocently adopt characters from your work expected to?

Because they are presented in a certain way, sir! Its all about presentation!

Could someone else make a comic based on the idea of a Nihang, could the be used in a novel, a film (Im sure extradanory league of gentleman had a character loosely based on a nihangs).

That character is hardly based on Sikhs. But now because of that character, people know what a Sikh is.

"Look a dude with a turban, he must be a ter...wait he's not a terrorist? "

This has just challenged that person's past belief. and happened because of some loose representation of Sikhs. Imagine What will happen if it was a solid representation of a Sikh. Now imagine a whole line of Sikhs. Now imagine a that line being superheroes.

What respect would these projects have for the sacredness of such ideas?

Define sacredness. Your post is getting confusing now.

Just look at how cheaply samurais have been used in media the media, half the world probably believes the samurai traditions were saved by a white man thanks to Tom Cruises last samurai. People make cartoons about a dog thats a samurai. Has any of this successfully revived samurai teachings, traditions or philosophy?

Because they have not been presented correctly. One, samurai's kept long hair and didn't let anyone cut it. I haven't seen that in any fantasy anime show. Therefore, no one cares. BUT on ther otehr hand, EVERYONE knows what a Samurai is, and alot of white folks are learning Japanese.

There are many things in the world which have both a negative and a positive consequence.

Afterall, someone might say that putting Sikh history in comics has reduced its value and has made it pop art.

You are clearly very telented, with any ability comes great responsability. You have various options in which you can use your talent, your choice is the same as someone in the following situation: imagine somewhen with great musical ability who can play so many instruments. With such a talent this person could make great efforts to popularise and restore the great raag vidiya and musical heritage of the Sikhs. But this particuarly Sikh has a really fond interest in heavy rock music, so instead of doing kirtan with classical instrments which they had the choice to do they form a heavy rock kirtan jatha.

What if they do both? Or rather combine them?

we have now created somthing that appeals to teh Sikhs youth and non-Sikhs.

Again, I intend to experiment with everything. I am not limiting myself to jsut fantasy or history.

They know a lot of young people will listen to their kirtan because a people like heavy rock and indeed many peoplle buy their heavy rock kirtan cds and the travel the world performing their heavy rock kirtan. However, what would all this mean of the sancity of traditionso of the Gurus kirtan, what would it mean for the centuries old vidiya, what will be the consequence 50 years later for how gurbani is percieved and how its performed?

So? I mean there is no harm in that. In fact, traditional kirtan will become more rare and will be of more value. Since all kirtan is rock in your scenario. There must be a balance. If I would be around I would then create competitions where Sikhs are awarded for raag kirtan, since rock has taken over.

If kirtan has not yet been fused with rock then someone like me might create the fusion.

This is society SIngh ji, it changes. Once people like something, then next they like something else, then they come back to the orignal, then later something else and on and on. Just look at the turban styles...

Sorry for the long analogy, I just feel really strongly that stuff like the Akali snake charmer is really dangerous and offensive.

have you read the comments underneath? If not then do so, and then post how you feel. This will give me more accurate feedback.

As much as I love some of your art work I those that picture is a perversion of something highly sacred. I particuarly fail to understand this when there are ample references to Singhs with super human abilities in historic granths.

What historic granths? What superhuman abilities?

If you are referring to our history. No one had a superhuman ability. They are all normal people just like you and me. THe only thing they had which we didn't was that they felt the misery of people around them and wanted to do something. They had passion in their hearts. They did not care what anyone thought of them. They did whatever they thought was right for the whole of mankind and not just their own race. They took action and didn't sit on their lazy ass, eating and drinking.

Although those of a western education may choose to believe stories in such granths are fabricated and make belives stuff, at least they are ground in traditions, history and culture of the Sikhs.

What are these Granths I have never heard of...

I only know of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

I have spoken to 5 or 6 other people who were also disheartened by the consequences of the Akali Snake picture whos ages are from between 18-27.

Please, ask them to read the comments for both the sketch and the painted work in progress. Let's see if they still feel the same way.

Wow, that's the longest post I've ever written. I THINK that's everything.

Phew... I hope there are no errors, that would suck...

Good stuff! I appreciate your concern!

Fateh!

Bhagat Singh

Puratan Singhs and Singhnian did not worry if their kachera was red or blue, and yes, you can put my post up there as well.

I already have for the past 6 months:D

Very Sikh-like indeed. :wink:

lol same here. He sounds like 25-30, just by how he talks.

Ok great replies guys! Now I need a survey of the age of the people that responded. So I know what age group this comes from. I need your true age.

We'll start with me, I am 19.

Dynamic_Banda ji, I couldn't said this better myself:

It is simply a medium to express something and if it has a sikhi twist because those things are important to Bhagat Singh then even better.

thanks! I appreciate it.

BYW shaheediyan ji, you still haven't answered my previous question about the "problem".

Please answer ASAP.

Thanks

"So you would rather see animations and comics made on Hindu mythology than Sikh superheroes?

I see how it is."

No you don't seem to be seeing much at all brother. Earlier we were speaking about the reason our youth don't have 'heroes' - as I pointed out the reasons were knowledge and language gap, as your lack of knowledge regarding the Sikh I mentioned shows (with all due respect).

That was not meant to be taken too seriously. But yes I have no knowledge of Sikh history, I am still learning. Knowledge and language gap I agreed with. I had no problem with it.

I used the Sri Ganesha cartoons to give you an example of religious inspiration for youth, be it the youth of a different dharm. They have tried to stay true to their characters and it works.

Yes, I know but its all fantasy. They already have fantasy stories. They are cool! Their kids will dig them. We don't have that. We have something better that we need to introduce. Use fantasy as the stairs...

I have given examples in Sikh circles also which are hugely succesful - Vismaad productions, although I personally feel they have a long, long way to go (after having had meetings with the producers my self and acknowledging they are more interested in popularity rather than correct historical representation).

Yes, why? Because people would rather look at fantasy figures. The hulk, superman, spiderman. I completely agree with the language gap and knowledge. But it does not end there. THe vismaad have fantisized history and have sugared it up.

What I would suggest to them is to switch to superheroes because the blood filled history of Sikhs is definitely not for little kids.

I am trying to leave history unchanged and create fantasy using some elements from the history. Read the my post above.

Lastly I agree with malwa da sher, mixing sacred Sikh traditions and terms like Akali with fantasy nonsense like snake charming, magic and model behaviour, is not going to win you any friends or create Sikh inspiration, rather it will create a new cultish fetish for these hybrid fantasy reality characters....

Why do you think I am trying to win friends or create inspiration with that?

You pick one work out of the other 50 I have and come to conclusions with it?

This is purely your opinion, you have not reasoned here in any way.

BTW I do this for myself, and want to see if others like it so that I can build upon what I have. Snake Charmer was not my most liked work. So its OK. Its called expressing yourself, oh and read the comments underneath before you jump to more conclusions.

Saying all that, you definately have a great talent, and like some of your other work, I pray you focus your attention on creating great historical pieces - something which our Panth would greatly bless you for.

Thank you! I really am trying to learn our history and I am trying hard to make my work look authentic and real!

At the same time, I am following my own interests, which lie in fantasy Nihangs. Nihangs to me is a word for a fearless Sikh warrior. And instead of using Sikh, I use that instead or Akali. I used Khalistani once, and someone got pissed off. (Khalistan is a kingdom in the storyline, from which the Khalistani Warrior cam from) All of them stay until I am provided with better labels. I use Nihang and Akali because they sound good. They have amazing meanings and because Sikh automatically says Sikhism to a non-Sikh, whereas, Akali and Nihang have a great feel to the word and don't pop out at you like Sikh does.

All the best.

Thanks!

Singh I mean source as in historical sense.

The Nihangs and Akalis were real people with real history. Whats the purpose of mixing make believe stuff with actual history? Make belief characters can definetely be successful at conveying messages as Bhai Vir Singhs novel have shown. But adopting make beleif characters, traditions and practices seems like a pretty dangerous path to tred. I dont think the Nihangs would be too happy with make belief traditions either.

Dont get me wrong, I really like some of your artwork. The picture of Baba Ajit Singh was superb, how come you took it down?

Bro I have no historical source for that because I made it up after seeing the artwork of another Singh. I provided the link on that page.

I know they are real people with an amazing history! I am a Sikh! If I didn't know who would!?

This is my imagination. If Sikhs are going to make a place in the fantasy world, they are going to learn magic. So this was where they started, with necromancy. Trust me bro once I have this figured out and I have some feedback, it'll look wicked.

The reason for using Akali and Nihang is... for no reason. I see the words as "Sikh Warriors". I don't want to use Sikh directly. In fact, I want the word Sikh to appear less often. (If there is another word I can use then please suggest) WHy? because Sikh = religion, too "normal"! Akali = hmm.. cool! Say Nihang! (say it) NiHUNG! sounds like he/she is gona murder someone. I use the words because I can relate to them and they sound wicked! But again if there are other words then I will definitely give them a try OR switch over completely.

I am not trying to make traditions up. This is fiction. The storyline is called "Miri Piri" and it is about Guru Hargobind Singh ji's swords. These swords are able to absorb magical energy and redirect them, which is why they are so powerful. They were lost somehow and need to be found again to end the reign of terror. I see nothing wrong with this. I have taken a concept of Sikhism and have expanded it into something different. I am definitely not trying to change anything here. I am not trying to offend anyone. Afterall, I have grew up with the same stories and same religion.

The painting of Baba Ajit Singh has been uploaded once again with more details and with the full sequence of his strikes.

Fateh!

Bhagat Singh

The story of Ganesha's birth is especially amazing - pure Bir Ras.

So you would rather see animations and comics made on Hindu mythology than Sikh superheroes?

I see how it is.

Bhagat Singh can I ask you your source for the Akali Snake Charmer image?

You know that game Prince of Persia? There is a girl Farah in there. I used her pose as reference. I explained it in the original sketch. http://www.flickr.com/photos/23716280@N08/2897480750/

just a few suggestions

try to keep things historically accurate as possible

like that excellent drawing with the nishan sahib, theres a khanda on it, when in fact the original nishan sahibs had degh tegh fateh on them (a kirpan, black spot signifying degh and a katar)

Yes I will keep that in mind.

I try to make sure that everything I paint is as accurate is possible. But what you can also do is that if you see a mistake just message/email me with a source that shows me how it is supposed to look.

If I don't fix it on that particular painting, then I will definitely keep in mind for the next one.

Oh that one by Kanwar Singh? Someone pointed it out to him but he didn't fix it. I can understand why though. He paints on one layer, so fixing is gona be pain (these paintings are least 6000 by 6000). Also, as an artist once you finish a piece, you just want to be done with it!

Like I said,you should study the original ithihaas of Bhai SukhaSingh Ji and Baba Gurbakhs Singh Ji, you will be surprised how much eye candy and impossible feats were performed.

I doubt the eye- candy bit but agree to read their itihaas. are you talking about Sukha Singh and Mehtab Singh? because I have a graphic novel planned for that ( I am not against the making of comics on history but i think right now fantasy and sci fi might be a better answer).

Baba Gurbaksh Singh? Is that Banda Singh Bahadur or another Gurubaksh Singh?

You completely missed the point. You are not addressing the problem in your solution, just creating another one.

And what problem might that be?

Yes, I drew the Akali Snake Charmer bibi.

Try 30.

Maha-Yodhvir Akali Baba Gurbakhs Singh Ji Shaheed.

300 doesn't even come close.

Nice art work, but I don't believe we need fantasy cartoon role models. We have more legendary heroes than you will ever be able to count.

Our main problem is a knowledge and language gap. Until recently, Sikh have been inspired by Dhadhis, Kathakar, Kavi's etc for hundreds of years, retelling the death defying and impossible/insane exploits of Panth warriors of near mythological status like Bhai Sukha Singh Ji (see Suraj Prakash).

This is the gap that 1st needs to be closed.

The thing about history is that its about "normal" people. I agree with what you say, but there is such a thing called "eye-candy". People want to step away from reality and life's problems when they entertain themselves. They want to see stuff blow up, time being frozen and bullets ricocheting off of someone's chest! You will not find this "eye-candy" in history.

Now that being said, you also want to appeal to other audiences. That won't be possible with doing comics based on Sikh history.

I am not against doing comics based on history, I just think that right now they won't be as effective as doing one on "Bat Singh".

Its like what Nanaki ji said:

The one of Mai Bhago Kaur really cool – maybe we can have a Khalsa comic book to education our children. My daughter would love that, in this day and age with batman and wonder woman, that’s what our children find cool – that fantasy figure they want to be.

Fateh!

Bhagat Singh

Keep up the great work Bhagat Singh Veer.

I am pretty sure that no one can beat the heroes that Sikhi has produced who sacrificed themselves for selfless and righteous causes.

Little kids cannot digest the heavy knowledge of Sikhi right away. Cartoon can be a great way of teaching them about our history. There is no way kids can stop watching TV at an early stage , if they are exposed to positive images this will have a greater effect on their life later on.

I can bet if a well executed movie was created about the wars and events in Sikh history , it can surely beat the likes of fairy tales such as Lord of the rings.

Precisely!

I am sure they could beat 300!

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate it!

The one of Mai Bhago Kaur really cool – maybe we can have a Khalsa comic book to education our children. My daughter would love that, in this day and age with batman and wonder woman, that’s what our children find cool – that fantasy figure they want to be. It’s wonderful enough telling our children about our history, but words only go so far – as to looking at pictures with every one obsessed over the TV, internet, blackberry etc. I think art is a really good way to educate.

You've hit bullseye Nanaki ji! We need Sikh superheroes like Batman and superman, only then our youth will see themselves and won't feel bad for wearing a patka or dastaar. They will have something that they can relate to.

BTW Our history has already been sugared up and it told like a fairy tale. So why not keep history real and create fantasy characters instead?

I made a topic about that on: http://www.sikhism.us/sikh-youth/22784-no-...y-not-what.html

History can be taught using a "Sikh Batman"! Let me reproduce something from that topic:

"In my honest opinion, I think our youth will benefit from having these Sikh Superheroes, as these heroes will constantly remind our youth of Sikh heritage.

It is possible for one to teach history through fiction, when pulled off correctly.

For example, I have been working on this character called "Sarbloh". His powers are similar to those of Colossus from X-MEN.

But by placing him in the time period of Anti-Sikh riots, I will be able to teach the reader about them (or least give the Sikh side of story). By putting him in the period of the terrorist attacks on the twin towers (where he helps rush people out of the building but then fails to make it out in time and gets crushed under the weight of the tower), I am ablw to show Sikhs in positive light. This at the same time reminds us of that event(s) which left a deep scar on our history. Since, the character was born just before 1984, I cannot show World War 1 and 2, using him but I have another character who has been through the 2 World Wars, and using flashbacks I can teach the reader about Sikhs in World Wars. It's like hitting two targets with one arrow."

Fateh!

Bhagat Singh