G.Kaur

Very interesting article. Thanks for sharing it!

What can most Indians do in terms of preventive care? There are several diets on the market and those like the Atkins diet which is predominantly meat oriented is even tougher for many Indian vegetarians.

Life style is key. I always say that while genetics loads the gun, it’s the lifestyle that pulls the trigger. Indians don’t eat well. When an American or a European needs fried food they go to the fast food restaurant. What do Indians do? They make fried foods at home and start feeding their kids very early on. So the Indian kids eat fried food at home and then go out and eat fast food so it’s a double whammy.

I tell everyone, don’t get into these branded diets. The bottom line is- a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. Get your blood work done and if you have a high LP (a) and other problems fix it. Exercise regularly, eat nuts fruits and vegetables and foods that are not over fried.

Learn to respect others views and be a bit more broad minded. Your point of view is not necessarily the truth.

I don't think behaviour such as yours will bring any change at all. This is Sikhi not Wahhabi Islam. Don't bother replying, my last post in this thread.

I believe there are things in Sikhi that are not discussable. This is one of them.

I will not respect any view of pro-casteism.

Sex Change Operations Turn Little Girls into Boys: Indian Parents Think They’re Cheaper to Keep

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/sex-change-operations-turn-little-girls-into-boys-indian-parents-think-theyre-cheaper-to-keep/

lol did you just ask me to go ask panj piyaray from AKJ, ok I can take Damdami Taksal more seriously? If you had said Dal Khalsa panth I can take you more seriously.

Yes, but my question was, where does Guru ji say it constantly, emphasis on constantly!

I already know about that bani passage

Also, do the posters here know the difference between acknowledgement and pride?

Personal attacks only show insecurity. Why can people not be proud of being themselves instead of trying to knock others down? Is this what sikhi teaches?

Listen, I don't care if you worship a cow, if you worship some self-pronounced Guru, if you're an atheist or whatever you are or whatever you do in your life. I told you to go to an amrit sanchar because I thought you could talk to the panj piare and they can put some sense into your head. Because it's obvious that the shabads we have posted here isn't enough for you even though it has a really clear message. If you was a retard and therefore don't understand the messages of our Guru's I'd say okay, but since you are not what is your excuse then?

Yes, make sure you don't get bored!

Good luck with your move.

Go ahead, I hope you can bring a positive change in our Panth.

It won't take a day or two or a month, it will probably take decades. But there's no guarantee that we can bring a positive change in the Panth, but we can try. Rome wasn't built in a day either.

At the end of the day, people who didn't give up trying to abolish the caste system amongst Sikhs, those who did parchaar and spend time to educate people can at least say that they tried to change it.

Thanks for your help.

Is the following shabad is not clearly saying that you should be not proud of your caste?

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥

Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਜਾਤਿ ਕਾ ਗਰਬੁ ਨ ਕਰੀਅਹੁ ਕੋਈ ॥

जाति का गरबु न करीअहु कोई ॥

Jāṯ kā garab na karī▫ahu ko▫ī.

No one should be proud of his social class and status.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬਿੰਦੇ ਸੋ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਹੋਈ ॥੧॥

ब्रहमु बिंदे सो ब्राहमणु होई ॥१॥

Barahm binḏe so barāhmaṇ ho▫ī. ||1||

He alone is a Brahmin, who knows God. ||1||

ਜਾਤਿ ਕਾ ਗਰਬੁ ਨ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖ ਗਵਾਰਾ ॥

जाति का गरबु न करि मूरख गवारा ॥

Jāṯ kā garab na kar mūrakẖ gavārā.

Do not be proud of your social class and status, you ignorant fool

ਇਸੁ ਗਰਬ ਤੇ ਚਲਹਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਵਿਕਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

इसु गरब ते चलहि बहुतु विकारा ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

Is garab ṯe cẖalėh bahuṯ vikārā. ||1|| rahā▫o.

So much sin and corruption comes from this pride. ||1||Pause||

ਚਾਰੇ ਵਰਨ ਆਖੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ॥

चारे वरन आखै सभु कोई ॥

Cẖāre varan ākẖai sabẖ ko▫ī.

Everyone says that there are four castes, four social classes.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬਿੰਦ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਓਪਤਿ ਹੋਈ ॥੨॥

ब्रहमु बिंद ते सभ ओपति होई ॥२॥

Barahm binḏ ṯe sabẖ opaṯ ho▫ī. ||2||

They all emanate from the drop of God's Seed. ||2||

ਮਾਟੀ ਏਕ ਸਗਲ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥

माटी एक सगल संसारा ॥

Mātī ek sagal sansārā.

The entire universe is made of the same clay.

ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਭਾਂਡੇ ਘੜੈ ਕੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰਾ ॥੩॥

बहु बिधि भांडे घड़ै कुम्हारा ॥३॥

Baho biḏẖ bẖāʼnde gẖaṛai kumĥārā. ||3||

The Potter has shaped it into all sorts of vessels. ||3||

ਪੰਚ ਤਤੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਦੇਹੀ ਕਾ ਆਕਾਰਾ ॥

पंच ततु मिलि देही का आकारा ॥

Pancẖ ṯaṯ mil ḏehī kā ākārā.

The five elements join together, to make up the form of the human body.

ਘਟਿ ਵਧਿ ਕੋ ਕਰੈ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ ॥੪॥

घटि वधि को करै बीचारा ॥४॥

Gẖat vaḏẖ ko karai bīcẖārā. ||4||

Who can say which is less, and which is more? ||4||

ਕਹਤੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹੁ ਜੀਉ ਕਰਮ ਬੰਧੁ ਹੋਈ ॥

कहतु नानक इहु जीउ करम बंधु होई ॥

Kahaṯ Nānak ih jī▫o karam banḏẖ ho▫ī.

Says Nanak, this soul is bound by its actions.

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭੇਟੇ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੫॥੧॥

बिनु सतिगुर भेटे मुकति न होई ॥५॥१॥

Bin saṯgur bẖete mukaṯ na ho▫ī. ||5||1||

Without meeting the True Guru, it is not liberated. ||5||1||

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1127&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0

It is. Dal also posted this Shabad in another topic, so I'm just wondering why londondajatt is asking again and therefore I told him to ask Panj Pyare if he doesn't understand what we are saying.

Please post the bani quotes that constantly say "No man should be proud of his caste"

You are not serious, are you?

I think you should go to the next Amrit Sanchar in the UK and talk to Panj Piare. There will be one in Southall in October organised by AKJ and one at Sant Baba Thakur Singh Jee's barsi organised by students from Damdami Taksal. The one at the barsi will probably be held on 24th December somewhere in the West Midlands. I will let you know the exact date and place as I'm also going. There are probably other Amrit Sanchars too but those are the ones I know about.

Panj Piare have more knowledge than me and they can answer all your questions about caste. They are Guru Roop.

Thanks for the reply, Silence.

Do you know if/where I can get it in the UK?

I'm going to Birmingham in August but I only got like 10 hours there so I don't have much time to go find a shop where I can get it, that's why I posted it here.

Well there can be many reasons why people don't make an effort to learn a new language. A lot of the foreigners here (from the middle east, asia and africa) didn't go to high-school, most of them just finished elementary and primary school. A lot of women here (mainly muslims) aren't allowed to go to school because their husbands want them to stay at home, some people have a lot of family problems that they can't concentrate on learning a new language, others are just lazy. And then there are a lot of other reasons too.

If you can only read and write Punjabi and or/Hindi and you move to Europe when you are an adult it is hard to learn the Roman alphabet. If people are illiterate you can't expect them to learn a new language if they can't even read or write their mother tongue.

Most of the people from Punjab who move to the UK and US go there because they want to work and make money and send them back to their families. From what I've seen in London most of the immigrants works for other Indians, they speak Punjabi at work and they don't really meet many people who speak English. So for them they probably don't feel there's a need to learn English?

I do think it's very important to learn the language of the country you are living in, but there can be many circumstances why people don't learn it.

Does anyone know if you can get Ketoconazole (Nizoral) shampoo without animal collagen in the UK?

I tried searching on google, but on most websites there's no ingredients list. I came across medicines.org.uk/ and all the Nizoral shampoos contain animal collagen. Are the shampoos by Janssen-Cilag Ltd and McNeil Products Ltd the only ones you can get in the UK?

Your help will be much appreciated.

Plus lets face it, today the vast majority of our people aren't of any sort of literary bent. Here in England you see wasps reading all the time, on the buses, on the trains, in the parks, on their lunch breaks etc. Regularly reading is part and parcel of middle class culture. The industry based around written English is massive. In contrast the average Panjabi commonly doesn't seem interested in the written word beyond that deemed absolutely necessary. It seems to be a cultural thing? Hell, even the working class, grunt, English foot soldiers in the Anglo-Sikh wars were writing and publishing their accounts. How many Sikhs wrote any thing similar?

Truth is our lot don't place a lot of value on educational things like learning a language fluently in a foreign land. For the common pendu, if they can get by, it is enough. In short there really isn't the will or motivation.

Who are you talking about here, Dal? People in Punjab who go to the UK or US or other English speaking countries and don't know English very well, or people in and around Europe who live in non-English speaking countries who don't know English very well?

ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

Āsā mėhlā 5.

Aasaa, Fifth Mehl:

ਤੂੰ ਵਿਸਰਹਿ ਤਾਂ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਲਾਗੂ ਚੀਤਿ ਆਵਹਿ ਤਾਂ ਸੇਵਾ ॥

Ŧūʼn visrahi ṯāʼn sabẖ ko lāgū cẖīṯ āvahi ṯāʼn sevā.

If I forget You, then everyone becomes my enemy. When You come to mind, then they serve me.

ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਊ ਦੂਜਾ ਸੂਝੈ ਸਾਚੇ ਅਲਖ ਅਭੇਵਾ ॥੧॥

Avar na ko▫ū ḏūjā sūjẖai sācẖe alakẖ abẖevā. ||1||

I do not know any other at all, O True, Invisible, Inscrutable Lord. ||1||

ਚੀਤਿ ਆਵੈ ਤਾਂ ਸਦਾ ਦਇਆਲਾ ਲੋਗਨ ਕਿਆ ਵੇਚਾਰੇ ॥

Cẖīṯ āvai ṯāʼn saḏā ḏa▫i▫ālā logan ki▫ā vecẖāre.

When You come to mind, You are always merciful to me; what can the poor people do to me?

ਬੁਰਾ ਭਲਾ ਕਹੁ ਕਿਸ ਨੋ ਕਹੀਐ ਸਗਲੇ ਜੀਅ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Burā bẖalā kaho kis no kahī▫ai sagle jī▫a ṯumĥāre. ||1|| rahā▫o.

Tell me, who should I call good or bad, since all beings are Yours? ||1||Pause||

ਤੇਰੀ ਟੇਕ ਤੇਰਾ ਆਧਾਰਾ ਹਾਥ ਦੇਇ ਤੂੰ ਰਾਖਹਿ ॥

Ŧerī tek ṯerā āḏẖārā hāth ḏe▫e ṯūʼn rākẖahi.

You are my Shelter, You are my Support; giving me Your hand, You protect me.

ਜਿਸੁ ਜਨ ਊਪਰਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤਿਸ ਕਉ ਬਿਪੁ ਨ ਕੋਊ ਭਾਖੈ ॥੨॥

Jis jan ūpar ṯerī kirpā ṯis ka▫o bip na ko▫ū bẖākẖai. ||2||

That humble being, upon whom You bestow Your Grace, is not touched by slander or suffering. ||2||

ਓਹੋ ਸੁਖੁ ਓਹਾ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜੀ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਣੀ ॥

Oho sukẖ ohā vadi▫ā▫ī jo parabẖ jī man bẖāṇī.

That is peace, and that is greatness, which is pleasing to the mind of the Dear Lord God.

ਤੂੰ ਦਾਨਾ ਤੂੰ ਸਦ ਮਿਹਰਵਾਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਰੰਗੁ ਮਾਣੀ ॥੩॥

Ŧūʼn ḏānā ṯūʼn saḏ miharvānā nām milai rang māṇī. ||3||

You are all-knowing, You are forever compassionate; obtaining Your Name, I revel in it and make merry. ||3||

ਤੁਧੁ ਆਗੈ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ਹਮਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਸਭੁ ਤੇਰਾ ॥

Ŧuḏẖ āgai arḏās hamārī jī▫o pind sabẖ ṯerā.

I offer my prayer to You; my body and soul are all Yours.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਭ ਤੇਰੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਕੋਈ ਨਾਉ ਨ ਜਾਣੈ ਮੇਰਾ ॥੪॥੧੦॥੪੯॥

Kaho Nānak sabẖ ṯerī vadi▫ā▫ī ko▫ī nā▫o na jāṇai merā. ||4||10||49||

Says Nanak, this is all Your greatness; no one even knows my name. ||4||10||49||

Bhai Niranjan Singh Jawadi Kalan wale

http://www.sikhee.com/audio/Kirtan/Bhai%20Niranjan%20Singh%20Jawadi%20Kalan%20wale/T-Z/Tu%20Visrey%20Ta%20Sab%20Ko%20Lagu.mp3

Okay I misunderstood your post. Shoot me.

Half if not all of the pendus don't have a clue what true Sikhi is. To them Sikhi is going to Gurughar on Sangrand and just keeping kes (which most already don't).

Half of all educated people don't know what true Sikhi is either.

What makes you think that education means you are knowledgeable about religion?

Well if they create their own Gurdwara's ,follow maryada then I don't think anyone will blame them ,but the problem is they start creating their own Religion which is ridiculous

I'm at a friends house so I haven't read all the posts in this topic yet, so you might already have answered my questions, but are you saying that people from a low caste background should accept being raped by high caste boys, get beaten up by the high castes, not allowed to be in the same room with a high caste, brahmin kids bullying your kids because they are dalits?

There comes a time when enough is enough. Parchaar and education won't help people who are stubborn and obsessed with their caste and don't want to change their mind. I already tried talking to a lot of people back home in my pind and they all said "we are x caste and we will never marry our kids to people from other castes, if they do we won't talk to them anymore" etc. I'm not gonna waste my time and life to explain what Sikhi says, life is too long for that.

We as a community failed to practice what Sikhi says about caste, if your sister got raped by high caste boys, if your family got beaten up just because they were from a low caste, if an employer denied you a job because of your background you wouldn't accept it and say "oh yeah well that's life, I just gotta accept it". You would create your own community just like the chamars, if I were in their shoes I know I would.

I haven't seen your topic before. I'll read it when I get back from the Gurdvara.

You should read about racialized medicine, if you are interested. A very interesting topic, in my opinion.

Interesting article.

You should create new threads for this type of stuff in the health section.

I guess the unequivocal message from multiple sources is that if you are of Indian descent - you are a walking heart attack waiting to happen.....

Thing is we don't even have people doing medical R&D with an emphasis on our own unique needs as brown folk! It can't help that the strategy for dealing with this in the west seems to be slightly altering the majority white strategy a bit!

We have so many 'Asian' doctors, we need specific research to identify and combat our own unique predispositions.

I will, if there's an interest in it otherwise there's no point.

To what you said earlier, I completely agree with you. It is a known fact that most medical trials are done on white males in their 30's, so we have scientists making heart medicine that is supposedly going to work as effectively on a 65-year-old Punjabi male, as it will the 30-year-old white male that it was originally tested and tried for.

I don't understand why a lot of our people are in total denial of all the caste crap that goes on, directly AND indirectly, in our community.

This is the same way some gore are in total denial of all the racism there is in a community. They brush it aside and are in total denial on what's going on.

We can't blame our parents' generation because a lot of them aren't much educated and they grew up in India where they have been very influenced by Indian/Punjabi culture, but what excuse do the youth outside India have?

Amritdharis asking their soon-to-be spouses directly or indirectly what caste they belong to, Amritdharis using words like "chura" and "chamar" to insult other people, Sikhs who don't want to marry other Sikhs from a low-caste background let alone eat at their houses but use them to clean their houses or the naalis on the streets or make food at weddings- So why do we blame people from low-caste backgrounds who want their own community separated from other people, people who've been oppressing them for decades?

I agree with kds, you should make some folders you can give non-Sikhs when they come to a Gurdvara. A lot of people have no clue what they are allowed to, what they are expected to do and what are big NOs when they come to a Gurdvara. You can't expect non-Sikhs (and some Sikhs) to know that.

A Norwegian Gurdvara made a folder few years ago for non-Sikhs about Sikhism, I think they distributed it on Vaisakhi. We were also sent some at our Gurdvara even though it's in Norwegian. It was a short, informative folder and it was very good.

If south-Indians can't read or speak English you could make some folders in the language they speak (if there are many of them at your Gurdvara), do they speak Telugu?

Have you got folders or posters in your Gurdvara for non-Sikhs?

Is it Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Seven Kings? If I remember correctly I think there were some folders about Sikhism to non-Sikhs, or maybe it was at Karamsar Gurdvara?

I was just browsing the net and found this interesting article. Our people could learn something from it

Suspended Animation….My Heart Attack

http://www.the-nri.com/index.php/2011/02/suspended-animation-my-heart-attack/

G. Kaur,

You should be careful if you are unaware of the ingredients, e.g. Jaikara's reference to bone powder in sugar production. For more details, you may want to watch this movie:

Video

Thanks.

Sri Japji Sahib Katha of the first pauree

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?p=PL82A3F7D62B094CC9

I'm not much help because I don't live in the UK, but my brother has a usb internet connection and it works fine for him.

You might want to get a internet connection in near future, because the usb one can be pretty slow sometimes.