Vaheguruseekr

Both what's the use of your personal attacks? Mods! It's Tu mien.com please cut it out both of you!

Tejwant Singh Ji,

Are you an ageist by any chance?

Don't tell me you are just stating the truth. Truth is not just what one knows or has studied acquired in life. Even if it's a fact that someone is 82, you are explicitly stating the age in a negative context which is not in line with teaching anything of any value, rather you are using this to attack someone.

It's like going to an old person and saying 'You old git!'. Note the word 'like' - this is called a simile just in case you try to twist my words.

You claim to hold the higher moral ground yet your words belie this claim.

Suspending your belief for a second, what would you do if you found out you were wrong? Seriously, if this happened you would've spent so much time:

1) Slandering Guru's Bani

2) Inciting others to do the same thus adding a happy bonus multiplier

If I was a betting man (which I am not), even if I had 1% doubt in my mind that I maybe wrong on this one issue I would not even dare to start laying into Dasam Granth for fear of being so slanderously wrong let alone telling other people what I think and causing them to do the same.

For me it's acceptable to say that you don't understand how Dasam Granth fits within Sikhi. Ask intelligent non-loaded condescending questions for sure. Even then you can agree to disagree but trash talk is not Sikh-like in any circumstance. Your conclusions are not truth. They appear to be truth to you as that's all you know. Can you see the lovely little conundrum?

While Gurbani talks about other Shastra limitations, the emphasis is that scripture cannot capture God. God is beyond scripture, beyond religion. This is not the same as condemning these Shastra, rather Guru is delivering the truth that even these attempts at describing God cannot even describe even a minute amount of Him.

Tejwant, this ego is a subtle thing and as much as you talk about tools in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and how it's changed you (which is great), it seems to me that the message has yet to hit home for you. I maybe wrong so no bets on it!

You may figure out tomorrow or later in your life that your world view, your whole paradigm was wrong with respect to a lot of things not just Dasam Granth. That day will be so painful as the ego will resist that realisation like a banshee as it's whole existance is based on the 'knowledge' acquired so far. To be a Sikh is to walk on the path of breaking this ego, make preparations for that day or many days like that. Without these there is no growth.

Finally you say you have studied Dasam Granth.

Lastly, please can you list your formal study of Dasam Granth, the languages you have mastery of, the exegesis tools you used, your teachers if any.

Thanks,

Ishvar Singh

Ishvar Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

WHat a shame that you are playing what your name says.:-) Only Ik Ong kaar knows which milestone each of us is at. You, myself or anyone else will never find that out. It is the journey of the individual, hence each of us carry our own spiritual torch.

Sikhi is not about testing others but testing oneself. You talk about my ego when you in you post did nothing but played Ik Ong Kaar. What a sheer arrogance which is sad.

If you have something to share about SGGS, our only Guru, then please do so that we can all learn from that, rather than judging others. Inder Jatt and I go a long way in the past. He is not a Sikh because he flaunts his Jatt caste and hates all other castes. I am sure with your name, you are aware that our Gurus rejected all this nonsense. So, the interaction between him and myself go a long way back. Please read all the threads here and on SPN to gain some knowledge before you jump to conclusions. It is unbecoming of anyone, especially the one whose name is ISHVAR.:-)

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Singh2 aka Inder Jatt ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am glad you have admitted that you play charitra games. Only perverted minds would do that and a few would admit their actions. I commend you for admitting that. So how old are you, mods edit?

Tejwant Singh

REad charitras you will get the answer.

Singh2 aka Inder Jatt ji,

Guru fateh.

LOL. Your perverted mind has shown everything. How old was your daughter when you explained the sexual acts mentioned in Charitapkhyan? Was she in her teens? Do not lie this time.

And as I asked you b4, how old r u , mod's edit.

Shame on you pervert.

Tejwant Singh

That is the charitra i played with fools. It was you who was writing my age as 82 and not khalsa fauj.

Moral is discuss issues and not personalities.

Singh2 aka Inder Jatt ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am glad you have admitted that you play charitra games. Only perverted minds would do that and a few would admit their actions. I commend you for admitting that. So how old are you, <mod-cut>?

Tejwant Singh

seeker ji

Atre the lines not from SGGS ji? So why agitated?

Your preverted mind does not think anything else but sex acts always.

As told repeatedly do not say something about charitras that is not correct.

So put the charitra for discussion. Whole charitra not one or two lines.

Singh2 aka Inder Jatt ji,

Guru Fateh.

You are famous for running away as you have done here again. You quoted Gurbani from SGGS, our ONLY GURU. I asked you to post the whole shabad with the meanings in your own words and you have refused to do so. One can only imply that you know nothing about what SGGS, our ONLY GURU says, hence the cop out with the perverted mind.

Tejwant Singh

Mr liar

You have been caught lying. How do you know my age is 82. I hope you are not a case

of schizophrenia. They hear voices on their own.

Singh2 aka InderSingh jatt ji,

Guru Fateh.

One can notice that you are frothing again. Please wipe off the froth from your mouth. It looks very unbecoming for a man like you or is this froth due to lusty feelings by reading Charitaars?:-)

You never said anything when Khalsa Fauj said that you were 82. I thought he knew your age and I started saying the same and you kept mum. Ok, I apologise for saying that you are 82. So, tell us how old are you and how long have you had this perverted mind?

Tejwant Singh

Seeker

All i see there mentors and moderators patting each otehrs back. It was a good forum but you and heretic Giani

has ruined it.

You are an expert liar. How do you know that i am 82 years old? Just a guess work.

Singh2 aka Inder Singh Jatt ji,

Guru fateh.

You ran away because you were caught lying many times. But you are always welcome and you can start any thread you feel like. We can help you get rid of this perversion with the help of SGGS. So how old are you and your perverted mind? You can share that with us without lying, I hope.:-)

Tejwant Singh

WE say news of spokesman is a lie. To prove your point post the relevant charitra here. It seems that you only know how

to speel Dasam granth.

How about this in SGGS ji

gotam tapaa ahili-aa istaree tis daykh indar lubhaa-i-aa.

Ahalyaa was the wife of Gautam the seer. Seeing her, Indra was enticed.

sahas sareer chihan bhag hoo-ay taa man pachhotaa-i-aa. ||1||

When he received a thousand marks of disgrace on his body, then he felt regret in his mind. ||1||

ang 1344

As you are so protective how will you shield children from the context of the above line.

Singh2 AKA Inder Singh Jatt ji,

Guru Fateh.

Once again you are poking your nose with your perverted mind in someone else's interaction. Shame on you. My response is to Bijla Singh, not to you. You have to wait for your turn. In the mean time, do what I have asked you to do from SGGS in my above post. And once again, wait for your turn.:-)

Tejwant Singh

WE say news of spokesman is a lie. To prove your point post the relevant charitra here. It seems that you only know how

to speel Dasam granth.

How about this in SGGS ji

gotam tapaa ahili-aa istaree tis daykh indar lubhaa-i-aa.

Ahalyaa was the wife of Gautam the seer. Seeing her, Indra was enticed.

sahas sareer chihan bhag hoo-ay taa man pachhotaa-i-aa. ||1||

When he received a thousand marks of disgrace on his body, then he felt regret in his mind. ||1||

ang 1344

As you are so protective how will you shield children from the context of the above line.

Singh2AKA InderSingh Jatt ji,

Guru fateh.

LOL. You perverted mind has become very creative in perversion indeed.

As requested many times before. Please post the whole Shabad from SGGS and explain that in your own words so one can understand what you understood from it, then only we can interact. As I said before, study SGGS to clean your mind from perversion.

Tejwant Singh

'singh2' date='Jul 8 2009, 11:17 AM' post='101383']

Why are you so woriied about your sons and especially daughter? You can not keep them isolated from these things

especially if they have gone to school. So why so much worry about Dasam granth. do not they visit forums where

flirts like you are always eager to post material with a twist. How do you protect them especially as they seem to have no Gurmat values from you.

mod's edit

Singh2 AKA InderSingh Jatt ji,

Guru Fateh.

Mod's edit: You have one sick mind. Read and study SGGS, our ONLY GURU, to get rid of your perversion.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant, you did not answer my question. Have you read these charittars yourself? How about you pick a charittar out of 105, 109, 134 or any other and we discuss it? Prove that these charittars promote homosexuality.

Bijla Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Fyi, I have not only read Dasam Granth as many would claim, I have also studied it. If you can not understand the Charittars and their open promotion of homosexuality, then I am sorry, I can not help you.

As I mentioned before to you, all perverts have their justifications for their own perversions. And I have learnt by studying Gurbani in SGGS, our ONLY GURU, how not to be a pervert.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Seeker ji

This one liner means nothing. Please rebut what he wrote by counter arguement.

I say that the lies you are spreading here are not in those charitras. We want your

explanation for that.

[/quote

Singh2 Aka Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Gurbani in SGGS, our ONLY GURU has taught me not to become a pervert. Thanks to the tools given in SGGS, I have learnt that. But only you can answer about your own perversion. Sorry, I am not able to help you in that field. Your posts show that you are the expert.

I am still waiting for the response for the questions I have asked u in following thread:

http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?sh...60&start=60

One wonders why all this delay!

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant Singh,

Also to doubts, why not include everything in sri guru granth sahib maharaj? its bit silly.

N30 Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

What doubts do you have about SGGS, our ONLY GURU? Please bring them forward and share with us and it will not be silly. That is only your opinion.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

seeker ji sans waheguru

What i wrote is correct. There is nothing like that in those charitras as being alleged here.

There is a moral lesson in those charitras advising aviod intoxicants , do not have extra marital

affair and do not see others women with an evil eye. If you are interested post these questions in

Charitopakhayan thread and you will get a detailed answer.

The problem with you people is that you do not have a life of nam simran as you say that

there is no naam kamai or meditation. You are a one line picker and give distorted meaning

of that as malice in your mind.

Now you are advertising false news here without reading those charitras. So you are not seeker but

mr hearsay.

Singh2 aka Inder Singh,

Guru Fateh.

I agree. All perverts have justifications for the perversion. Thanks for sharing.

Tejwant Singh

matheen has told you correctly.

There is nothing in those charitras as you are peddling here.

The charitra gives advice to us that when someone tries to engage you by sexual advnces in lustful acts

do not fall a prey to those as it is immoral. Extra marital acts amount to leaving one's religion.

These advices result in avoiding kurehits.

ਕ੍ਯੋ ਨਿਜੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਯ ਤਜਿ ਕੇ ਸੁਨਿ ਸੁੰਦਰਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਭਜੇ ਧ੍ਰਮ ਜਾਤ ਹਮਾਰੋ ॥

ਰਾਜ ਕਰੌ ਅਪਨੇ ਤੁਮਹੀ ਸੁਖ ਸੋ ਇਨ ਧਾਮਨ ਬੀਚ ਬਿਹਾਰੋ ॥

ਮੈ ਪ੍ਰਗਟਿਯੋ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਤਜਿ ਕਾਨਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਾ ਨਹਿ ਆਨ ਨਿਹਾਰੋ ॥

ਕ੍ਯਾ ਤੁਮ ਖ੍ਯਾਲ ਪਰੋ ਹਮਰੇ ਮਨ ਧੀਰ ਧਰੋ ਰਘੂਨਾਥ ਉਚਾਰੋ ॥੪੪॥

Leaving my wife if i indulge in sexual act with you

It is like abandoning my religion

You rule over your kingdom and live a life of satisfaction

Since the time i am born

i have not seen any other woman with an evil eye

and why you are immersed in such extra marital thoughts

In my view you should have satisfaction

and remember your God in prayers

Charitra 109 Charitropakhyan

Singh2 AKA inder Singh,

Guru Fateh.

Shhhhhh. Let people respond. Put your arrogance on hold for God sake.

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant, have you read these charittars yourself? Chrittar 105 is about a man (Taas Baig) who is attracted to another man (Mohan Rai) but the relationship between them never existed. Mohan Rai stood firm in his faith and refused to indulge in any sort of sexual relationship. How does this charittar advocate homosexuality?

Charittar 108 and 109 are about Sassi Punnu. Punnu was killed by his wife Prabha Vati. Sassi committed suicide in grievance. The moral given here is that if you love someone dearly then you should not hesitate to die for the love and life without love is not worth living. In 109, both go to heaven where Urvashi decides to revenge their death. She changes her physical body and becomes a man and then comes to earth and kills Prabha Vati. They never had an actual affair and never had sex. Even if they did, it would not have been lesbianism since one was a man and one woman. Lesbianism is not promoted. Only perverted minds would ignore the moral and twist the story to make something else out of it. No charittar promotes homosexuality. Not a single charittar says that one should do such acts. Instead charittars warn the readers that if they act under the influence of lust they will suffer just like characters in the charittars did.

Bijla Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I agree. All perverts have justifications for the perversion.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Are those charittars saying to go and perform those acts?! Bandha banja.

Mateen ji,

Guru Fateh.

LOL. what a dumb question!. What are they for then?LOL. Thanks for showing your blind faith with absence of reason or logic.That is all I have to say.

LOL @ Are those charittars saying to go and perform those acts? HAHAHAHA.

No, they are saying to memorise them and imagine them and share them with all the ladies that are related to you in any shape or form.:-)

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant Singh,

I know you asked above questions to singh2.

Based on your questions i need to ask you questions which will you get answers within:

1. Abroad in schools, sex organ/reproduction education to the youths has became mandatory.. not only that many subject discuss some elements of sex organ/reproduction in context of science/biology/awareness. Only perverse mindset person will consider it taboo. On a same token, if this could be acceptable by you? why cannot charitars? Charitars are used remind people to upheld dharam/morals by giving moral story of each charitar of people falling into many type of vices.

Anti Charitar party have to prove through charitars itself charitars are for entertainment to hold any credibility in the discussion. Many members on this thread have already proven by giving examples from charitars - morals of each charitar are not entertaining but cautionary

2. Anti charitars party seem to have problem, their one of problem being guru maharaj never would have included treh charitar composition in sri dasam granth because it mentions men and female sex organs or even sexual intercourse. I asked to those who have doubts, do you have issues with family doctor examine both sex organs both male and female in physical check up? do you have issues with family doctor when he/she gives procedural steps how to conceive a child quickly for female. Only perverted mindset will have problem with this because doctor when gives medicine/advise to patients is not perverted or have any perverted intentions. Going fwd, keeping in context on a same token, parallelism can be drawn from below examples-

- just like doctor does not feel shame or is not perverted when giving advise or medicine just like that sri guru gobind singh ji as a doctor have included remedies from ancient literature's with moral story of each charitar so kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, ahankar of people living in socio-religious-economic environment can be understood and cured.

- just like how medical student does not feel amusement or erection when reading books on specific sex organs, reproduction methods, specific details on ejaculation of both male and female during intercourse to understand beraaj and rakhth infusion..just like that, student in sikhs studies who reads charitopakhyan with open mind (unless perverted off course) does not feel amusement or erection when reading charitars because every charitar is for education as its cautionary because it have moral story behind it and every charitar is put into its context.

over and out ..!

N30 Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You are confusing biology which is also mentioned in SGGS with pornographic erotoism which is mentioned in Dasam Granth. Let us be objective and not try to mix apples and oranges because of our subjective beliefs based on the shameless erotic way it is written in Dasam Granth and blindly accept that it is written by our Dasam Pita. So for you the perverted way Charitars are written are part of a biology or sex education class in schools? Get real, mate.

This shows undermining, disrespect of Dasam Pita on our part and it also shows how arrogant we are by determining that our 10th Guru who sacrificed all his family, created Khalsa Panth and gave us SGGS as our ONLY GURU will write this kind of rubbish and name it HIS Granth?

Just ponder over it a bit. Sikhi is not about blind faith. Blind faith makes people blind.

Tejwant Singh

Singh 2 aka Inder Singh,

Guru Fateh.

Let me give you the benefit of the doubt for the sake of discussion and say that I believe what you are saying is right for yourself as you have the total conviction that all DG was written by Dasam Pita.

As you have lied many times before and was caught, I would like you to be truthful for the first time at this tender age of 82 for the sake of your own family.

As you know very well that Charitropakhayan explains about homosexuality, lesbianism, anal sex and infidelity.

As you are also a great Scholar on Dasam Granth, common sense would dictate that you must have shared your knowledge of Charitropakhayan in details with your family as you call it Gurmat vichaar - your words, not mine about DG.

So, my questions are the following:

1. Did you explain everything about Charitropakhayan with your wife, with your daughters, daughters in law your grand daughters and all the other ladies mod's edit?

2. How did you approach the matter?

3. Did you have props for this Gurmat Vichaar?

4. What kind of reactions did they have especially the teen age girls?

What I would like to know is that you share your modus operandi with us so all those who believe in what you believe in and propagate with great pride can also take props from you and carry on with your way of thinking and name it as Gurmat Vichaar.

Tejwant Singh

Mr seeker

This newspaper owner is excommunicated from sikh panth. There is directive from akal takhat not to raed this newspaper.

This newspaper is also notorious for giving false news. Are you not ashamed of by giving such stupid sources.

Singh2 aka Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

So did you close your eyes when you opened the URL? Read what I wrote. It seems you are having difficulty comprehending what is being said. The newspaper wrote about what happened on a radio program Nachda Punjab in which Gyani Gurbachan Singh of Akaal Takhat participated. What is false about that? Stop being so insecure.

BTW what it your opinion about Charitar No.109 Page No.964 Lesbian relationship,Charitar No. 105 Page 952/3 Homosexual relationship,Charitar No. 134 Page No. 1009/1010 anal sex, all in Dasam Granth?

Please share with us.

Tejwant Singh

Dear Sadh Sangat,

Guru Fateh.

Following is an interesting piece of News that I would like to share with you all.

http://www.rozanaspokesman.com/mirro...iew=06&pview=7

You all can read the whole episode by clicking on the above url. But here it is in the nutshell.

Gyani Gurbachan Singh of Akaal Takhat was asked about the recent decision by the Delhi High court about de-criminalising homosexuality in a Canadian radio program called Nachda Punjab.

Gyani Gurbachan Singh replied that this is wrong because not even animals will commit this kind of act.

When the Interviewer asked Gyani ji about his views about the writings of Dasam Granth: Charitar No.109 Page No.964 Lesbian relationship,

Charitar No. 105 Page 952/3 Homosexual relationship,Charitar No. 134 Page No. 1009/1010 anal sex, Gyani ji hung up the phone and left.

Tejwant Singh

Waheguruseeker

I know your intentions. These are to derail this discussion as you do on SPN.

In Punjabi there is a saying that apni galli which hee kutta sher hunda hai.You are not in your galli.

Your tactics of stalling the debate are not going to work here,. Take deep breath and relax.

Singh2 aka Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

LOL. You are losing it. Now you are clinging to the cliff with your nails. Here you go again lying and angry. Wipe the froth off your mouth. Count the posts I have posted here,just today.

For you to think that this is your Galli shows how insecurely arrogant you are. It is a public forum. Any person who can register can come and post here. Your anger has diminished your little rationale you were left with and it shows.

Tejwant Singh

PS: Note to the Moderators. Singh2 claims that this forum is only his domain ( Galli) as he has mentioned above. Is that true? Please let me know. Thanks.

His question is do you know from where this fateh comes?

Singh2 aka Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

LOL. You can not give up. At this advanced age of 82, you have not learned the manners. I asked you before also that let people who I am talking to respond. Give them a chance. It is very unbecoming on a person like you to do that. It shows how insecure you are.

You as a Hindu would not know the meaning of Fateh because you have never responded likewise. You have already shown your true colours by lying all the times.

I am waiting for the Moderators of this forum to be fair and balanced. They have deleted my responses to the posts which were addressed to me. I hope they will put those post back otherwise remove other people's posts addressed to me as well. That would be only fair. So let us see what happens. When my posts are put back, then only I will be able to respond to Shaheedyan and other people.

mod note: Your posts, as well as some posts from the opposing side, were deleted for going off topic. You guys were warned about this before.

In the meantime, why don't you respond to Randip Singh ji's questions? Why are you afraid to do that? I thought you were seeking the truth then I forget that you call yourself a proud Jatt, hence, you are one proud Hindu, not a Sikh. That is why you have no guts to respond.

Tejwant Singh

"Moderators should take notice of Singh2's attitude. I have been always respectful to him. My posts would prove that. I address him with Ji and always greet him with Fateh."

Then:

"Please Stop frothing. It is bad for your advanced age and lecherous mind. I do not lie. You have had the monopoly of lying so far."

Lol.

You PROUDLY speak about your use of 'Fateh' PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE THE FATEH SALUATION IS GIVEN SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB.

If its not there where is it from (source please) and why do you use it?

Dhanvaad Jeeo.

Shaheedian ji,

Guru fateh.

Let the Moderator put my post back which was in response to your earlier accusations then I will respond to all you. So in the meantime bear with me.:-)

Tejwant Singh

Ps: Is greeting someone with Fateh a bad thing in your mind?

Is calling someone lecherous is respectful? So that is the standrd of your gursikhi.

All you have done so far is indulge in polemics over personal issues. It seems you have nothing else except using derogatory langugae for others.

Singh2 aka Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Please do not blame me for what your mind is like. You have shown that in your multiple posts. That is your standard which you have been cultivating even at this advanced age of 82. What a shame!

You are the only one responsible for your mind and its lechery. It is so easy to blame others.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

waheguruseeker ji

Have you shown me where is khande bate da amrit written in SGGS ji? Stop blame game as usual.

Start a separate thread and i will show you.

Singh2 aka Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for proving once again that you have no idea what SGGS says. You showed that earlier too when you had no idea about Rehat mentioned in SGGS. As I told you that Amrit is mentioned 31 times in SGGS. I do not blame you for that. Lots of Hindus do not know anything about SGGS either. So, you are not alone. Please do not feel bad about it. If you are interested, please do not hesitate to ask here or at SPN. Only by asking one can learn.

Tejwant Singh