Koi

I thought Harnaam Kaur was Amritdhari. She made a video a few years ago now stating that she decided to become Amritdhari and that's why she was struggling with always having to shave the kesh from her face. She suffers from PCOS a disease that causes excess facial hair in women (among some other things like androgynous features) due to excess testosterone and lower than normal estrogen levels.  When she fought with the facial hair, it was constant thing... she'd shave it off and by next day it would be back and noticeable.  

p.s. removing ANY kesh is a bujjar kurehit.  Having a tattoo is not.  In fact I don't even see tattoos mentioned in Sikh Rehet Maryada... which is the one she would be likely following in UK.  I did see 'mehendi' mentioned in in one of the other RMs before though but mehendi is different and some people extrapolate that to mean all makeup.  But there is no actual mention of makeup or tattoos.  Piercings (to hang ornaments) however are specifically mentioned as being prohibited, but other jewelry is ok.  You guys have to stop thinking everyone has to follow GRM only and mention that as if its the only RM... most people are not DDT.  And I know she isn't.  

She also could have had them before taking Amrit.  I have a tattoo from when I was way younger.  Not like I can remove it now (unless I have several thousand dollars and a few years of going to laser therapy sessions).  Luckily its hidden on my lower leg which is always covered. 

 

 

​Sher, how long have you been on this forum? I'm sure that you know by know not to misrepresent Gurbani here.

I am interested in which scholars did you spoke to regarding this?

 

​Sikh Rehet Maryada was created based upon all of the below:

• Tanakhah-nama (Nasîhatnâme) Samvat 1776 (1718-19 CE), ten years after Guru Gobind Singh gave up his mortal body.
• The Prahilad Rai Rehat-namab
• Sakhi Rehat ki: About 1735 CE
• Chaupa Singh Rehat-nama: 1740-1765 CE (1700 CE according to Piara Singh Padam). Chaupa Singh was a member of the Guru's retinue. He was entrusted with the care of infant Gobind Das by Guru Tegh Bahadur. Some members of Chaupa Singh's family became martyrs with Guru Tegh Bahadur in Delhi and others served under the 10th Guru.
• Desa Singh Rehat-nama: late 18th century
• Daya Singh Rehat-name.

This document is the Official Sikh Code of Conduct. There were a number of unsucessful attempts in the eighteenth century following the death of Guru Gobind Singh to produced an accurate portrayal of Sikh conduct and customs. These attempts were contradictory and inconsistent with many of the principles of the Gurus and were not accepted by the majority of Sikhs. Starting early this century in 1931 an attempt was made by the Shromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (S.G.P.C.) to produce a modern standard Rehit. These efforts involved the greatest Sikh scholars and theologians of this century who worked to produce the current version. The document produced has been accepted as the official version which provides guidelines against which all Sikh individuals and communities around the world can measure themselves. The Sikh Rehat Maryada is the only version authorized by the Akal Takht, the seat of supreme temporal authority for Sikhs. It's implementation has sucessfully achieved a high level of uniformity in the religious and social practices of Sikhism.

Excerpt from Mission Statement of Translator (Kulraj Singh):

Producing an English version of the Sikh Rehat Maryada with the object of promoting uniformity in the Sikh conduct and observances in the interest of deeper religious cohesion. the Sikh Rehat Maryad, as the ensuing preface to the original Punjabi text will show is the product of collective Panthic wisdom. What is more, some of the greatest Sikh scholars and savants of all times contributed to it and deliberated on its content. So this work should take precedence on any sectional beliefs and preferences. In a wider context, the content of the Rehat Maryada should be taken as the final word as to the matters they deal with. That will foster panthic cohesion.

The So-Called Gurmat Rehet Maryada is not accepted by Akal Takht at all. Sikh Rehet Maryada is the only accepted RM by Akal Takht. Therefore, some of the contradictory practices in GRM, are actually against Gurmat.

 

To be fair....​He did not use the word punishment... but saying that "nobody of this gender should be allowed to do this thing because none volunteered to do it on the very first day" whether or not the actual word is used, it's still saying the same thing. That women for all time are being held accountable and losing out on it because of the women who were present that day. 
Maybe since they were so close to Guru Ji himself, they were already in the know of the plans for that day and so it would have made no sense for them to volunteer since they knew what the outcome would be? etc? We dont know... again, we can't use absence of proof as proof of absence... if we did that, science would never have evolved!! Think about it!  Just because they themselves did not volunteer for whatever reason (my thinking is that they already knew what Guru Ji's plans were for that day and so, being part of those plans it made no sense for them to volunteer as there would be no impact. It had to be people who did not know what the outcome personally for themselves was going to be... you cant tell me that a wife and mother would not know the plans ahead of time being so close to him).  Its like if I am part of the planning committee for something, where we call for volunteers and the volunteers dont know what they are volunteering for but I do... would I volunteer?? It makes no sense.   

As for the rest of the women present that day remember culture was still a huge impact and women were likely largely kept submissive, and quiet.  Seen and not heard etc. But... there were thousands upon thousands of men who also did not volunteer that day as well!!!  So to say that all women for all time can not be Panj Pyaras because of the ones present that day, what about all the men who didn't either?

Point is, gender like caste etc were all eliminated with creation of the khalsa.  Its even in DDTs RM itself! Paapiman has yet to comment on this line - in Gurmat - and he's so obsessive on following DDTs RM to the T.  And he has yet to even comment on that command.  He doesnt know how to approach it while still putting women beneath men....because he cant.  It's black and white. That differences in caste, colour, etc and GENDER were ELIMINATED after the khalsa was created. That means that once Khalsa was created, who the first five were (meaning their caste, their ethnicity, their gender etc) all did not matter.  What mattered was the divine light the jot inside of them.  All Khalsa become equal on equal level once someone takes Amrit all these differences are removed.  So to tell an entire gender they can not fully participate as Khalsa goes against this when it says Gender difference was also removed.  (of course actual gender was not removed like caste and skin colour etc what was removed was the social hierarchy used to give some privileges over others because of these attributes)

 

 

​I agree! However that is the reasoning given in the video speech by *ddt Sant* Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. That women should not be Panj Pyaras because no woman stood to give her head that day (ie punish all women for all time because the ones present that day did not volunteer their heads). However, to hold all females responsible for all time, does not make sense. However this is the reason quoted by majority of Singhs who don't want women in the Panj Pyaras. 

The only other reasoning given is purely speculation (claiming its because females give physical birth).  That reason also makes no sense since spiritual birth does not require a physical gender. Think of it this way... we never actually left spiritual form. We have only forgotten our true nature! It has never 'not' existed therefore there is nothing to birth into.  We only need to awaken and remember. 

So what's left? Absence of proof? That doesn't equal proof of absence. Just because we cant find written proof that there were women, does not mean the Guru Ji 'disallowed' women.  It only means that we have no written proof.  

If it was because at the time women were seen as wives, stay at home mothers and servant to their husbands who didn't participate in fighting, that no longer holds true. Women are in every element of the armed forces now, and police forces etc. making same sacrifices as their male counterparts. 

 

​Again, you have received the answer in the past.

Gurmat has given optimum rights to both, men and women.

Physical birth (after impregnation) - Women

Spiritual birth - Men

Parents - Mother's status higher than a Father

Spouse - Husband's status higher than a wife

In Islam, mothers are greatly respected too.

Bhul chuk maaf

Gurbachan Bhindran said Muhammad was a liar and killed the Sadhu from whom he stole Quran. And you call him holy. Paapi, why the hypocrisy? 

You know what Gurbani says about hypocrites? You lovingly adopt Gurbachans stance on Guru Har Rai Patshahs marriages or other dumb things then why do you ignore what the so called Mahapurakh, rab roop, Gurbachan Su said about Muhammad?

And read Dasam Granth to know more about what I meant. Bachittar Natak for a start maybe.