sanjhk

But it's ok to go and talk trash about Guru Gobind Singhs bani in Gurdwara, it's ok to insult the Gurdwara sangat and the whole Khalsa Panth for that matter in Guru Jis hazuri... like your mentor Darshan Bagi.

People in glass houses...

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

it's not ok to go and talk trash about guru gobind singh ji in gurudwara or any where and no body(sikh) is talking, but some sikhs including me don't believe guru gobind singh ji can write such poetry which is against the principles of guru granth sahib ji thats the issue.

but you people don't see that every sikh who is against dasam granth, follows the principles of guru granth sahib ji and you said they are anti sikh, dusth, guru nidak etc, where guru granth sahib ji is our only guru, nobody or any writings is bigger than or even touch the guru granth sahib ji( in sikh religion)

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

For me this question is hard to answer and I have heard alot of explanation on what people think, but one of the most convincing answers I got was from Sant Jarnail SIngh ji Khalsa. His answer was so simple and straight forward.

Well here is the video and it would be great if members here would give there thoughts on what Sant ji is saying and whether women should be allowed in the Panj Pyare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f2geLOKzTE

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

it is really a hard question to answer i think so but with so many question;

1. was there any women in the congregation at that time?

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

Did you make these statements? Are you implying the Sikhs who study sanatan Sikh granths are brahmins? Yes or no? Is this a judgment poorly of them? Yes or no? Are you equating these granths as brahimnism? Why? Because Sanatana Dharm reflects Divine Truths not man-made opinions of power poolitics of brahmins. YES< brahminvaad is very much a part of Hindu Mat which is a part of Sanatana Dharma as coming from traditional worldview and teachings. But Hindu Mat is also including the man-made views mixed in with Divine truths, sectarian differences. I already gave you example of Vaishnav Mat which is part of Sikhi influence as coming from the Vaishnav bhagats who also influenced Sufi sants. Vaishnav Mat, for example, is not the same thing as brahminism but opposed it. So how can you equate sanatani wordl-view of purataan granths as being brahminism?

Who says these granths have been given Gurgaddhi or that any Sikh is accepting this heritage in the Granths as Guru Sahib? Or are you making a judgment again>?

See, you are judging how bad people are on basis of these granths as to give them no legitimacy. As if your personal interpretation of Sikhi is the only correct one, as if God is plaything for you to hide behind and judge other people with, like in your personal pocket.

Guru Granth Sahib is not wrong. Neither is Gurbani condemning these purataan granths or Sikh history. So why are you? Brahminism is not even the same as the heritage of traditional Sant Mat of bhagats.

When you condemn the granths as being invented and brahminvaad and accuse the Singhs who are studying them as brahmins that is your own particular interpretation of Gurmat Gursikhi and not everybody elses. You do not have Waheguru in your pocket as own special power to condemn other people with. In fact, you yourself may be wrong and are no judge of anyone elses's Sikhi.

These many granths which share sanatan philosophy and world view are historical part of Sikhi. It is related to Sant Mat movement of Vaishnav, Sufi and Shaiav bhaktas/bhagats and had influenced on Gursikhi as evidenced by inclusion of bhagat bani and heritage of sanatan granths. It has NOTHING to do with brahminism and actually was established as a reform against brahminism.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

first of all waheguru is not in my pocket.

sikh has only one guru that is guru granth sahib ji.

i am not judging anybody and maybe you are right i am wrong but can guru granth sahib be wrong.........from this isn't mean guru granth sahib ji is in my pocket.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

I'm saying that yours is not the only legitimate and valid interpretation of Sikhi and that historically these granths which you have denounced have been an accepted part of it.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

i am really sorry(nimarta sahit)i am not getting what you want to say?

please accept my apologies.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

Your poor neech has God Himself in hip pocket but others don't? Wow, are you equating own opinions and understanding of Gurbani as same as Divine?

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

please, i am sorry but i don't get what you want say.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

I'm sort of confused about your underastanding of who the 10th Guru was/is. On one hand you consider him to be a scholer, linguist, educated, poet (- as do we all) and then you deny any writings attributed to the guru? What type of writer is he who cannot produce a piece of literature.

Just because you do not agree with the contents does not mean that the writer has not produced it.

I do not agree with with men going to witches in the forest to seek raaj-gaadhi. Does that mean that I deny

that Shakespeare wrote Macbeth?

I say open up your mind: history/the world does not revolve around your limited human logic.

Fateh, Out!

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

don't confused with what i said or consider,i am nothing...just follow or believe guru granth sahib ji (gyan)

guru gobind singh ji is my father.

please read and analyse any writings-any within the light of guru granth sahib ji(gyan)and if guru granth sahib ji accept it...then there is no question

but we are not ready.........what you say

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

ਸਚੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਤੁਮਾਰਾ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ -ang 562

ਸੁਣਿ ਸਜਣ ਜੀ ਮੈਡੜੇ ਮੀਤਾ ਰਾਮ||

ਗੁਰਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੁ ਦੀਤਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ - ang 576

Everything can be obtained from my Guru, why look elsewhere? Is having faith in Gurbani = Brahmanism?

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

i totally agreed with you everything can be obtained from guru.

but people are looking for answers elsewhere not in guru granth sahib ji.

guru granth sahib ji doesn't approve brahmanism.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

You guys couldn't even answer my questions. If you guys are so knowledgeable, why do u have to run to mods for moderation and post deletion?

Sikh sangat won't even allow someone to post quotes from Dasam Granth. What kind of pro DG site is that? Sikhsangat bans a person for even asking for arths of a quote of DG... They are thugs

ਕੈ ਜੜ ਪ੍ਰਾਨਨ ਕੀ ਆਸਾ ਤਜੁ। ਕੈ ਰੁਚਿ ਮਾਨਿ ਆਉ ਮੁਹਿ ਕੌ ਭਜੁ। ਕੈ ਤੁਹਿ ਕਾਟਿ ਕਰੈ ਸਤ ਖੰਡਾ। ਕੈ ਦੈ ਮੋਰਿ ਭਗ ਬਿਖੈ ਲੰਡਾ। ੧੧। ਰਾਜ ਕੁਅਰ ਅਤ ਹੀ ਤਬ ਡਰਾ। ਕਾਮ ਭੋਗ ਤਿਹ ਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਸੰਗ ਕਰਾ। ਇਹ ਛਲ ਸੈ ਵਾ ਕੋ ਛਲਿ ਗਈ। ਰਾਇ ਬਿਰਾਗਿਯਹਿ ਭੋਗਤ ਭਈ। ੧੨। ਅੰਤ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਨ ਕੋ ਕਿਨੂੰ ਨ ਪਾਯੋ। ਬਿਧਨਾ ਸਿਰਜਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਪਛੁਤਾਯੋ। ਜਿਨ ਇਹ ਕਿਯੌ ਸਕਲ ਸੰਸਾਰੋ। ਵਹੈ ਪਛਾਨਿ ਭੇਦ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਾ ਹਾਰੋ। ੧੩। ੧। {ਚਰਿਤਰ ੩੧੨, ੫.੪ ੮੭}

Arths please. Does the Creator regrets after creating something?

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

i don't know why people won't allow to post quotes from dasam granth?

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa!

Waheguru ji ki Fateh!

What is your issue with Chaubis Avtaar?

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

your question style shows that you read so called dasam granth...which is good...but

did you read guru granth sahib ji (nimarta sahit)

if you read then you will get your answer......from your own guru.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

i've noticed that every now and then anti-DG people jump in and mention people not stepping up for debates, despite the fact that KF was offerred a ticked to go to India to debate.

You guys also mention your posts are deleted, despite the fact that they are not, and that this forum allows greater freedom of speech than any other Sikh forum.

Clearly there's a number of anti-DG persons reading the forum and you guys are attempting to use these tactics to propagate that your viewpoint is superior. Despite the fact that when debates were raging in full force you ran off.

Typical nastik tactics.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

i am glad you use anti-dg...........thankyou

the persons who ran off were dasam granth favor.

do you read charitras,avtars etc

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

wow, by SatGuru Gobind Singh Ji himself. Is it signed by him? Is this in Dasam Granth?

My main question would be, how do you know it is written, uttered by SatGuru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj?

When was it written?, Why did he write it, while having possession of Adi Granth?

So many Granths appearing, amazing.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

wait...........so many more granths will be appearing, amazing ....................surprise.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

Thanks Kam, do you know where I can get a copy in the UK?

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

you people are sikh or brahmin?

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

post deleted, double post.

The original case was about concocting a story about Guru sahib going to a prostitute's place saying this is written in Dasam granth.

He was called to akal takhat for clarification.He refused to go in front of singh sahibans.Given below is hukamnama. his excommunication seems to be his misadeventure about Dasam granth banis.

Hukamnama from Sri Akal Takht Sahib

HUKAMNAMA

So called Ragi Darshan Singh was asked to appear at Sri Akal Takhat Sahib on 5th December 2009, 7 January 2010 and January 29, 2010 to clarify his stand regarding the blasphemous remarks he made on the life of Dasmesh Pita Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib. However, due to his ego and for being self centered and selfish he chose to defy 'Guru Granth' and 'Guru Panth' and failed to appear before Panj Singh Sahibaans at Sri Akal Takhat Sahib

Sangat might remember that on 8 Jan 2008 Sri Akal Takhat Sahib had given Aadesh to be aware of Darshan Singh Ragi’s nefarious and false prachaar. Sri Akal Takhat Sahib also advised Ragi to refrain from making false, baseless and irrational statements. On 6 June 2008 Sri Akal Takhat also sent a ‘loving’ message to the Ragi to refrain from making statements in Gurmat Samagams and in media that would lead to confusion among sangat. However Ragi ignored all the Hukams and messages of Sri Akal Takhat Sahib and continued to cause distress and confusion among Sangat. He even compared the Singh Sahibaans with ‘Massa Ranghar’ and used very objectionable language in his notes.

After deliberating on all the above cases and issues Darshan Singh Ragi is declared excommunicated from the Sikh Panth for being a ‘Guru Nindak’ and an enemy of ‘Guru Panth’. Having lost the pride of being a part of the Sikh panth he no more holds any right which a Sikh deserves. All the ‘Guru Nanak Naam Leva Gursikhs’ who consider Sri Guru Granth Sahib as their Guru and Guru Gobind Singh Sahib as their father are ordered to snap all relations pertaining to ‘Roti’ and ‘Beti’ with Darshan Singh Ragi.

All the Sikh sangats of India and abroad are ordered not to allow Darshan Singh Ragi and his supporters to speak from a Sikh stage and to give any support. The one who fails to implement this would be the Tankhaiya of Guru Panth.

http://patshahi10.or...amas&Itemid=139

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa,

Waheguru Jee Ke Fateh.

Please listen to the audio of Charitar # 402 From Dasam Granth and analyse it.

http://www.wakeupkhalsa.com/others.php

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa,

Waheguru Jee Ke Fateh.

Whole Khalsa panth follow SGGS and Dasam Granth. There is no khalsa panth without Dasam Granth.

Hukamnama of akal takhat is a slap on the face of panth dokhis.It is a message to them if you do

not abide by panthic traditions then get out of panth.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

is khalsa panth different from sikh?

you have time to write dasam granth (full) but you don't have time to write sri guru granth sahib ji( the only sikh guru)

now days akal takhat sahib ji is being used in a very wrong way.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

Congratulations to all sikh sangat.Khalsa panth has sent a clear message.

One dusht is out.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

congratulations to whom veerji :

who follows guru granth sahib ji only

OR

who follows Dasam granth and guru granth sahib ji

everybody is sikh sangat

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

Please provide reference from credible sources saying that maryada was changed in regards to Banis of Nitnem and Amrit sanchar.

You should be ashamed of criticizing and using rogue language for a Granth that gives us nitnem and amrit sanchar banis. To use so called for Dasam Granth is not a civilized language that you were proud to use.

As you have written that you believe only in two banis of amrit sanchar is there any puprose of prolonging this discussion except for propaganda purpose.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

if you have time to discuss about so called dasam granth then you should have time to search about rehat maryada.......

why should i be ashamed,it should be you who bow head to so called dasam granth who is against the principles of guru granth sahib ji.

i am here because i believe in guru granth sahib ji not for creating any propaganda.

you people believe in anything given to you in the name of guru and you dont want them to analyze in the light of only and only one guru granth sahib ji.

you always bring lines from others bring any tukh from guru granth sahib ji who says those who follows only one guru (guru granth sahib ji)are anti sikh.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

Sikhs do their nitnem everyday and by composition of its banis it is evident that they follow two granths.There is no point of contention among sikhs on this.

Any splinter sect who contravanes this is yet to be born.

Rattan singh ji bhangu writes

Satgur hukam Khalse Bhaiyo

Masand Bhet Chandi Kar Daiyo

kai shashtri lai neehan chainye

Kai ghasit mare tel Talai

Prachin Panth parkash by Rattan singh ji Bhangu

wheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

maryada is changed so many times.

veerji, there are 1430 panne in guru granth sahib ji just once read them, compare the so called dasam granth writtings with the

guru granth sahib ji.

you said we have two gurus.idon't think so

we have only and only one guru: guru granth sahib ji.

atleast we both accept guru granth sahib ji as guru, waheguru tera sukar hai.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh.

No one has invited you here.You have come on your own.You can drink kala afghna fudge and remain content.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

if you follow guru granth sahib ji first bring nimarta and sweetness to your vichar.

please .....please bring views of guru granth sahib ji not kala afgana or anybody else veerji.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

We are talking about khalsa that was created on baiskhi of 1699.We are talking about khalsa who drank amrit from one bowl.Do you know about that khalsa or kala afghna has brainwashed you in forgetting that khalsa so that there is no rehat left and it is easy to drink, dance and be merry.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

nobody can brainwash me or any sikh who follows the principles of guru granth sahib ji not so called dasam granth.

why you people are putting so called dasam granth above or equal GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI, when guru gobind singh ji said there is only one guru you have to follow( follow means bow your head, sing it, have vichar, implement it )i am not against guru gobind singh ji, i am against so called dasam granth even 90% of so called dasam granth's writings are against guru gobind singh ji's principles who follows guru granth sahib ji.

if you follow the principles of guru granth sahib ji than just once analyse the so called dasam granth writings in the light of guru granth sahib ji.

read the charitras, avtars etc and then respond veerji.

i don't know why you people always bring kala afgana and prof. darshan singh. why don't you bring Guru granth sahib ji .

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

I am glad you stopped using Fat-heh of Dasmesh Pita - 1st propogated through Sri Dasam Granth, at least you are not a hypocrite in this aspect, unlike your SP friends.

Back to the topic, you haven't answered my question, please do so:

Which baniyan were recited during your amrit sanchaar?

Thanks.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

wahegururji ki fateh

veerji

you know the rehat nama so you know which baniyan were recited.

at that time i don't know but now i read so called dasam granth and i don't believe that was written by guru gobind singh ji who believe in guru granth sahib ji and who gave women such a great place.

guru granth sahib ji don't believe in avtars, durga, kali etc; believes in one akal purakh if guru gobind singh ji want shakti or blessings of anybody he never bow his head to anybody except guru granth sahib ji.

khalsa word is there in guru granth sahib ji.

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh was so common those days.

veerji i am posing you a question;

who is anti-sikh the followers of guru granth sahib ji or the followers of so called dasam granth?

guru gobind singh ji gave us only one granth or guru that is guru granth sahib ji and you are ignoring that fact.

waheguru ji ka khalsa

waheguru ji ki fateh

That is not the answer of my question. Since you are refuting Rehat maryada which is a product of sikh literaure of that time, you need show us proof. In absence of any proof it is a propaganda laden with mischief.

sat sri akal

veerji

i am not creating any propaganda.What i am getting out of this? NOTHING

I believe in only guru granth sahib ji nothing else and you do believe in also.The only problem is dasam granth,you always say in favor of it and i don't...........

there is only one problem in sikhi that we don't want to search we want everything in our plates.

just make efforts you will get veerji.

sat sri akal

Sat sri akal

waheguru.....its answer is in Sri guru granth sahib ji.

find it

sat sri akal

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all!

Here is the second example.

ਚਕ੍ਰ ਸੰਭਾਰ ਮੁਰਾਰ ਤਬੈ ਕਰ ਜੁੱਧ ਕੇ ਹੇਤ ਚਲਯੋ ਬਲ ਧਾਰਯੋ ॥ ਰੇ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਤੂ ਭਿਰ ਮੋ ਸੰਗ ਆਇ ਕੈ ਰਾਮ ਭਨੈ ਇਮ ਸਯਾਮ ਪੁਕਾਰਯੋ ॥੧੮੫੩॥

चक्र स्मभार मुरार तबै कर जुध के हेत चलयो बल धारयो ॥ रे न्रिप तू भिर मो संग आइ कै राम भनै इम सयाम पुकारयो ॥१८५३॥

Then Krishna moved forward for fighting, holding his discus; according to the poet Ram, he began to challenge the king for fighting.1853.

Can someone please explain it? Why the word poet is added in the above translation?

Balbir Singh

Sat sri akal

because it is written by poet shyam.

sat sri akal