Lazy Sewadar

As long as people work together for universal good (i.e. dharm), then the external form (aesthetic) that motivates them to move towards it is always a welcome development.

May you be of assistance to all.

For those of you yet to become acquainted with it, i though i should post this video that was recently featured on Punjabi TV:

It introduces Prabh Aasra, universal humanitarian welfare organisation, and the exemplary work being performed by them in Punjab. The organisation is headed by the most genuinely selfless man that i personally have ever met, Baba Shamsher Singh ji. Babaji was formerly a pharmacist with a few pharmacies around the outskirts of Chandigarh, but moved by the suffering of those he saw around him, one day sold all his businesses and bought some land to house and care for the destitute, orphans and helpless. He now devotes his life to the protection, care and benefit of those who have nobody else.

Aha!

I obviously mistakenly took your previous comment to mean that Sant ji does not believe a BrahmGyani should perform external rituals, when in fact what he conveyed to you was that external rituals are fine so long as they are accompanied by an internal sincerity and corresponding internal shift?

Accordingly Baba Deep Singh may have performed both an external/physical havan whilst simultaneously performing an internal havan of the mind?

That's perfectly in line with Santji's narration of the actions of his Murshid.

I was unaware that people had difficulty with the interchangeability of the terms "qawm" and "panth".

I asked regarding havan or hom to sant jagjit singh ji harkhowal- If baba deep singh ji did hom or havan? Thats what baba ji responded back. It perfectably make sense. It does not make sense for bhramgyani/atamgyani to do hom or havan..he is already above all these sargun rituals..!!

A bit of a delay in responding... but i thought this was an interesting post; because if true it stands directly opposed to what Sant ji wrote in his book, The Society of Saints, where at p.16 he wrote

After some days he passed away. Baba Jawala Singh ji held a “Yag”, holy fire, in his remembrance. He called people from fifty villages by announcing the ceremony with the aid of a drum.

As far as i know Sant ji considers his own teacher (i.e. the above-mentioned "Baba Jawala Singh") to be a puran BrahmGyani. I wonder why he would be undermining his own teacher in private?

Next question which comes to my mind, can a book be an idol?

How about the pictures of "greatly loved or admired person/s"?

I personally would think so.

It's no great secret that one can observe such an attitude in the behaviour of certain people in the Gurdwara who come, prostrate before Maharaj, present some small offering, and then depart. Such activity undoubtedly is identical to that which could be observed everyday before an idol/murti in Varanasi, Vrindavan, or any rural Indian town.

Interestingly, one great soul recently asked me: "if you had a science exam to prepare for would you bring your science book home, place it on a palki with reverence and then bow to it, and thereby think that you are sure of passing the exam? Bhakti and pyar are not devoid of value, but external bhakti alone is very definately incomplete."

How do you define an idol and also idol worship?

Apologies ji, i should have been a bit more careful about terminology..... where you were quoting from i was using the English term "idol worship" in the pejorative- i.e. insincere and superstitious worship of a form devoid of any real connection to God.

That was supposed to be taken in contrast to Sargun bhakti puja/sadhana, which is focusing on attributes or form (be it physical or mental) as a tool/doorway to receive Hari Darshan.

Substituting words from thesaurus does NOT work when you start using more than one or two substitutions per sentence.

This.

Nowadays in hindu temples throughout India all one finds is idol-worship, pure and simple. As quoted above, this is merely drowning people in thoughtless, spiritual impotence and subservience to Pandits that steal their time and finances.

However when a murti pran pratishtha is performed, the idea is to invite Parabrahm's energy (in the form of the deity invoked) into the physical item that is the focus of the ceremony (i.e. the murti). The idea is not to imprison God in a small pot, as is so often unfortunately the case, but rather create a doorway to His mercy (i.e. a Haridwar/Gurudwar). When Guruji says

Dehraa maseet soee poojaa ai nivaaj oee, maanas sabai ek pai anek ko bhramaao hai

The temple and the mosque are the same, there is no difference between Hindu worship and Muslim prayer; all human beings are really the same; their differences are illusory.

some legitimacy is given (by an unquestionable source) to worship performed before a murti vis-a-vis worship performed without one.

It is undoubtedly a bit of a conundrum, which could not fail to produce difference of opinion. The best that anyone could hope for is that people be sincere to what Guruji tells them in their meditation, and that other people in turn then respect that we are all on an individual and personal spiritual journey as directed by SatGuruji.

Tisarpanth is an Indian website, right? At least the articles appear to be written by authors who are non-native English speakers; given the unrelenting use of the dictionary/thesarus and the not-quite-successful attempts at overly formal/academic English.

At times the writing is rendered completely incomprehensible by such efforts, but to give an example that can be easily fixed:

"Kali has gained intensive synonymity with demise and it's subsequent aftermath." could easily and more fluidly be said "Kali represents Death and its subsequent aftermath". One or two slip ups is fine, but reading an entire article where the above sentence is one of the more intelligible really isnt ideal.

If anyone here knows anyone at Tisarpanth, please pass on the suggestion that they should try tone things down a little.

God bless

I've ordered from them before, and was really happy that i did

For Udasis, there is a dera in Birmingham called Shree Chandra Darbar. One Mahant Kasar Dass is in charge of it.

For Nirmalay, Tirth Singh Nirmala seems to be the only person here in the West. Daljeet Singh is a sikh Shishya of Swami Paramananda ji, who is a Dashnami Vedantin rather than a Nirmala, though the differences arent huge. Daljeet Singh ji's brother, however, is a Nirmala, though he resides in Tarn Taran and doesnt speak english.

Bit off topic (as not the same individual and subject matter is 100% unconnected) but an interesting case report nonetheless.

Dragging up an ancient post.....

By the way, I've not had gospel truth status for this one yet, but I'm now 99.9999% convinced the famous Swami Ramdev is in fact Udasi. Maybe this is already common knowledge. I asked a Nirmala or two who have said he is. At his birthday function in Kankhal on TV I noticed all the big udasi mahants kind of running the show. The next week it was an Udasi mahant who was invited to explain the benefits of Swami's exercises. plus there are those statements he's made about Sikhi in general. He recently did his Patiala event at the (quite marginal) Udasi Ashram there.

This was confirmed this year at the 2013 Maha Kumbha Mela, when Baba Ramdev took his place in the Udasi procession for Shahi Ishnan.... though, interestingly, is apparently not a very highly rated or regarded member of the akhara (as evident by his placement towards the back of the procession).

For official headquarters of the udasin akharas that take part in the procession at the Kumbha Mela

Udasin Bara Akhara is based in Krishna Nagar Allahabad, and the Udasin Naya Akhara is based in Khankal district of Haridwar

Course of studies vary between one Udasin and another (just the same way it varies from one Brahmin Pandit and another)- some study sanskrit, whilst others only focus on gurmukhi.

for main headquarters, please see the link below for a non-conclusive list of a number of udasi centres:

http://www.puranbaba.com/udasin-temples/

and how many udasis are there in india?

Thats probably impossible to answer- especially when you try to define what exactly an udasi is (i.e. "sikh udasis", "sindhi udasis", "mixed udasi beliefs with hinduism", "purely hindu udasis", "hindus influenced by udasi", those that change their designation continuously, and those that have no designation). Not everything in life fits neatly into our self-manufactured boxes.

Gurfateh Amardeep Veer ji,

What is the political difference about then? Whether they support SGCP or?

Neither faction supports SGPC; apologies if that is what came across in my post.

In fact the only difference appears to be that political differences arose within the Udasis; the same as occurs in every other group, and similar to the differences that arose between SGPC and the Delhi committee (i.e. nothing substantial, just people thinking that they should be in power and not the other group).

I stand open to correction however this is what i have heard back from members of both factions.

To update people, i made contact with an Udasi baba in India and the question has been resolved.

For those interested; apparently the difference is just a purely political one (i.e. SGPCDelhi Committee type thing stated above).

To bring this thread back to life

Veerji N30, where abouts did you purchase the above works?

Nearly everywhere that there is mention of modern Udasi sadhus there is a division between the "bara akhara" and the "naya akhara".

They have seperate buildings, admin, and positions in the procession towards shahi ishnan at the kumbha mela. The above information is all readily available online, however there does not seem to be much by way of informing what the difference between these two akharay is.

I doubt that the older akhara is hinduised and that the new akhara split off from it to retain its sikh connection, or vice verse, and when i asked one udasi devotee what was the difference all he could say was "not much".

Does anyone know about this topic? Is it just like the SGPC and the Delhi Committee? i.e. a bunch of old men forming committees

Does anyone know how you might get either or both of Tirath Singh ji's books nowadays?

Beautiful website ji, bauhat kaam karta hai,

i'll read through the content with interest.

Well done ji!

By the way- does anyone have contact details for Tirath Singh ji himself?

Probably the easiest way to sort all of this out?

Done both Veerjian... thus far no joy

DTF said they have nothing in and dont stock any books by Tirath Singh ji

Bro Kam1825 hasnt been on in over a month- hope he is ok