J.Singh

From "Excellence of Sikhism", by Sarup S Alag

truthsingh, its a shame sarup singh did not provide the reference for this quote. I've seen forums question the authenticity of the quote....

I've also searched the web and some popular Russel sites, but they dont mention the quote...

I recommend Sun Tzu's The Art fo War to everyone, you'll learn a lot; how to deal with your own enemies, external and internal.

i've only read snipets, but if anyone's interested:

http://classics.mit.edu/Tzu/artwar.1b.txt

Anyway, here is a tuk from SGGS, p.1105:

A Warrior is one who fights for the lowly and meek.

He may be cut into pieces, but to leave the battlefield he does not seek.

(incidently, this tranlastion is from the abovementioned book from Sarup Singh)

Kam: is not lust

Kam is desire

desire and lust are too different things

Maybe so, but the usual connation is sexual desire, hence “kamasutraâ€.

Sidak

jsingh, it's clear you have no qualms about santa singh having accepted government money,

sidak, you gave an example of what would happen if my house was burnt down…

in such a situation, I would go out of my way to ensure the perpetrators were brought to justice, along with footing the bill for all tangible and intangible losses.

Look at it this way (for the attack in 84) - IF the Sikhs did accept the money:

1. We could’ve rebuilt the harminder sahib in half the time,

2. Demanded compensation for all brevities (obviously nothing can replace lost lives),

3. The money that was donated could have been used for Sikh schools, sikh literature, hospitals…the list is endless

4. And, of course, continue to demand justice

as opposed to the majority of the panth which did (resulting in the symbolic ex-communication of santa singh),

Sometimes it takes courage to against the norm, even resulting in persecution eg. When Galileo went ‘against’ the Vatican

…hence your inability to understand my 'point'.

Actually I did understand your point (bikramjit was little premature with his conclusions and i see truthsingh deleted his joker comments), however I wanted you to elaborate it so it could be discussed with reason.

having courage suggests the ability to do the right thing at the right time - something that santa singh clearly failed to do by accepting the handout.

Well it seems lalleshvari believes the payment at first was not accepted…maybe the facts need to be ascertained first along with evidence?

Would do you think?

Either way, in my opinion, it doesn’t take courage to reject the payment…especially for the devastation caused and lives ravaged…The Sikhs have contributed so much to India, we deserve every penny the GOI.

NB. Just because payment is accepted, it doesn’t negate the requirement for justice…justice is paramount

Khalsa Fateh

sidak,

well, it seems that santa singh had neither the courage, nor the brains, to realise that his reconstruction of the akal takht was conveniently being funded by those who were responsible for its destruction in the first place, in their attempt to get some of the so-called 'moderate' sikhs back on their side.

“Didn’t have the brains�? Well it was the government who destroyed it, and it was themselves were funding the rebuilding…no phd required here.

So again is ask you:

Do you think it takes courage to reject government money?! (as you stated he was not ‘courageous’ enough to reject the funds).

it's a bit like al'qaida offering to rebuild the twin towers ...

err, no its not

You seem to display some strange logic on this forum.

First you provided me with some loony options about thanking Gandhi or getting justice.

Now your producing some strange analogy between al-qeda and the WTC…mate, 9/11 was a terriost strike from extremists, 84 was a concocted, premeditated attack by a corrupted government – there are no parallels to draw even IF alqeda made the offer.

why didn't the nihangs, the defenders of the panth, play their part in delivering justice to those guilty individuals. or perhaps their respect for bibi indira's sarkar was too overwhelming ... ?

Firstly, the Khalsa is the defender of the panth and dharam, not solely nihangs.

Secondly, Nihang Baba nihal Singh ji did suffer a great deal (through torture), so quit your sweeping statements regarding Nihangs Singhs

Bikramjit,

It is actually you who is incorrect. Sidak is absolutely correct to make a comparison of the two incidents.

Well it was sukdev, not sidak, who made the comparison.

The only contemporary document which relates to that event is Jangnama by Qazi Noor Mohammed who was in the entourage of Ahmed Shah Abdali. He stated that the Sikhs came out of the Harmiadir Sahib to fight the Afghans, thereby showing that the fighting took place in the complex around the causeway or in the Parikarma.

Read the below

http://www.sikhcybermuseum.org/People/GurbakshNihang.htm

"When the King and his army reached the Chakk (Amritsar), they did not see any [infidel] there. But a few men staying in a fortress were bent upon spilling their blood and they sacrificed themselves for their Guru.... They were only thirty in number. They did not have the least fear of death. They engaged the Ghazis and spilled their blood in the process. Thus all of them were slaughtered and consigned to the seventh [hell]."

Whether the “fortress†connotes the harminder sahib or Akal Thakt, is a question that can only be probably answered by looking at the original text.

I stated the analogy was incorrect because where santJi was barricaded within harminder sahib to fight from, BabaJi “engagedâ€/travelled out to meet the attackers. Again, in no way am stating what santji did was wrong

Sidak

since you don't seem to understand

yes that’s right, that’s why asked twice for the point.

my point is that had santa singh shown any balls, to put it crudely, he would have told bibi indira she could stick the money where the sun don't shine.

So let me get this straight, you think it takes courage to reject government money?!

moreover, for a jathedar of the budha dal nihangs, i would have expected him to atleast bring to justice, in the nihang ways of old, those that carried out the desecration, instead of thanking them

So you think a group of, say a thousand men, with predominately non-mechanical weapons can “at least get justice†from a national army of a million+ with nuclear weapons? And “in the nihang way of oldâ€!…Lol…

Sukhdev

The ppl who say it as a mistake to fight at Sri Darbar Sahib, excuse me but read history matey did not Shaheed Baba Gurbaksh Singh ji 3 jathadar of Damdami Taksal fight at Akal

Takhat or was that too made up like ????.

A quick point:

Its not entirely correct to use Baba Gurbaksh Singh Ji as an analogy. BabaJi actually met the Afgans as they approached; hence the battle was not fought from within the precincts. Read panth prakash for clarification on this.

NB. I’m NOT stating what Sant Jarnail Singh Ji did was incorrect, simply the analogy is incorrect.

santa singh accepted money to rebuild the akaal takhat from those same people who attacked it and were responsible for killing over 3000 innocent people in its surroundings.

So again, whats your point?!

suppose somebody burnt down your house intentionally, destroying all your cherished possesions, annihilating precious artefacts, killing members of your family, and then offered you an apology and £100,000 to build it up again - would you take the money from them and thank them for their generosity, or would you at the very least demand justice for the horrendous attrocity ?

well, that’s difficult question, you’ll have to give time to think about that one. :roll: :roll:

Rebuilt with money given by the very people who were responsible for it being demolished in the first place ... ?

so what's your point?

cool idea.. but lets start new thread for it in general section... childhood pictures....

actually i was going to post a compliant about this new trend of kiddy photos. Now I wouldn't mind so much...if the babies were remotely cute! :twisted:

bik,

as for your eyes, looks kinda similar to this:

:shock:

very piercing indeed

:wink:

Khalsa Fateh

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What is the significance

This is a very interesting post (from another forum) regarding prayer:

Let me consider first the idea of a reality behind creation. Now it is stated that it needs no ones "recognition" and "praise". Also, note, that it is said in the "semitic" mode of propitiation of this reality i.e. that the reality seeks recognition. Now this is to be recognised as a "semitic" understanding of this "reality" which is both absolute but paradoxically at the same time seems to exhibit human desires, fallibilites and traits such as it's "recognition". As opposed to the Eastern mode (of which Sikhism is), where the "recognition" of this "reality" is a goal to be sought, a state of mind of realisation of the truth behind the universe. The arrow of "recognition" is the other way around...the recognition does not affect the "reality", it is unnecessary by the "reality", but affects you, the recogniser. And what of the "praise". Again, the "semitic" understanding is at play, where "praise" is taken as propitiation of an all-powerful "reality" and to avoid it's wrath (again, the paradoxical human nature), whereas, in the Eastern paradigm, the "praise" is understood as an admission of a much larger "reality" outside the "reality" of the ego constructed little self, and "praise" is the method of reducing the ego in order to allow the recognition of this larger "reality" within the mind. Again, the arrow of the action is opposite, the "semitic" mode is for self-preservation, the Eastern mode for self-liberation.

Now as for the "recogniton" of this "reality", I would disagree that it does not need to be pursued. The highest levels of Science search for this "reality". Physics attempts to answer questions about this "reality". But science defines a method of falsifiabilty of it's result, an empirical method, whereby results can be accepted or refuted, in "reality". So, one can claim with some confidence that the answers reached a "real" and correct.

maybe the ganges does hold something special for the sikhs...

SHALOK, THIRD MEHL:

He does not understand himself; he believes the Lord God to be far away. He forgets to serve the Guru; how can his mind remain in the Lord's Presence? The self-willed manmukh wastes away his life in worthless greed and falsehood. O Nanak, the Lord forgives, and blends them with Himself; through the True Word of the Shabad, He is ever-present. || 1 || THIRD MEHL: True is the Praise of the Lord God; the Gurmukh chants the Name of the Lord of the Universe. Praising the Naam night and day, and meditating on the Lord, the mind becomes blissful. By great good fortune, I have found the Lord, the perfect embodiment of supreme bliss. Servant Nanak praises the Naam; his mind and body shall never again be shattered. || 2 || PAUREE: If someone slanders the True Guru, and then comes seeking the Guru's Protection, the True Guru forgives him for his past sins, and unites him with the Saints' Congregation. When the rain falls, the water in the streams, rivers and ponds flows into the Ganges; flowing into the Ganges, it is made sacred and pure. Such is the glorious greatness of the True Guru, who has no vengeance; meeting with Him, thirst and hunger are quenched, and instantly, one attains celestial peace. O Nanak, behold this wonder of the Lord, my True King! Everyone is pleased with one who obeys and believes in the True Guru. || 13 || 1 || SUDH ||

SGGS Page: 854

Any thoughts on the above verse??

Khalsa Fateh,

This interesting chapter is from Excellence of Sikhism by Sarup Singh Alag (chapter 6, page 88 ).

It demonstrates that an Ardas performed from the heart never goes unheard.

(It’s a liitle long, but well worth the read!):

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A Spectacular moment of Sikhism

Sikhs’ close association with God

During the hot summer of 1976, one of the passionate news regarding Sikhs’ close association with God was inflamed in all newspapers of England and Europe.

British television and radio media also covered this news with interest. In that year the summer was very hot and there were no rains. It is well known that the British weather is quite unpredictable. It could be sunshine one minute and rain or snow the next moment.

Department of meteorology keeps people informed about the weather forecast through the media of radio and television. The weather forecast is normally right but still one can see some middle aged pedestrians carrying umbrellas, raincoats and wearing gum boots amidst the sunny weather because it is unpredictable and can change suddenly. But probably in 1976 the god of rain was displeased with Britishers.

It did not rain for several weeks and people started feeling the pinch. The government encouraged people to economise on the use of water and stop watering the garden with fresh water. Next came the ban on car washing and then cuts on tub baths. The government suggested to people who could afford it to go abroad for holidays to avoid the water shortage problems.

When after taking all these measures the situation did not improve and consistently went on worsening and the Water reservoirs levels depleted seriously, the authorities asked its residents to pray according to their own rites and request God for the grace of rain.

Thus everybody prayed for rain but nothing happened. Looking at the miserable conditions the meteorologists forecasted that there was no hope of any rain at all for the next many days. Hearing this sad news the Sikhs made up their mind to do a group prayer. It was decided that the following day the ‘Akhand Path’ or continuous reading of Guru Granth Sahib would be started.

With great reverence it was announced that at the ending ceremony of the ‘Bhog’ followed by the ‘Ardas’ prayer and ‘Hukamnama’ mandate, God listening to the prayer of his dear devotees, will certainly shower His grace in the form of heavy rain. The Singhs appealed to all their fellow Sikhs residing in Britain, where ever they were living in the country to do meditation for all the duration of ‘Akhand Path’ and pray for the rain.

As a result of this announcement being published, everyone’s attention was automatically drawn towards the Sikhs. Some people ridiculed Sikhs’ declaration but others thought that the confidence with which Sikhs have announced for the rainfall, indicates that they must have some supernatural power, otherwise they know how they will be ridiculed if the pronouncement does not come true. The ‘Akhand Path’ started at the agreed time at Gurdwara sahib in Southall. All the Sikh san gats from all over England started their prayers so that Wonderful Lord ‘Waheguru takes mercy and fulfils the desires of His people. Each and every heart was full of confidence, reverence and selfless service: On the third day when the ‘Bhog’ ceremony was being completed, the sky was clear with no sign of~clouds. The ‘Ardas’ prayer was performed by Baba Jagjit Singh with such affection, sweetness and humility that all the people in the congregation felt its intensity. As per the belief of the Sikhs “birthi kade na hovai jan ki ardas†meaning prayer of a true seeker never goes in vain’. The ‘Ardas’ prayer was followed by ‘Hukamnama’ (mandate), “Sawan aiya--†which was concerned with the arrival of month of rain. Then the miracle happened.

God listening to the prayer of His dear people certainly showered His grace in the form of heavy rain. Inside the Gurdwara the sermon was being read and outside the shower of rain started. For 15 minutes the sky echoed with ovations and cheeriness.

Numerous television, radio and newspaper media people who had come to see it, were delighted. The Sikh congregation, as a mark of thankfulness, had the name of the Wonderful Lord ‘Waheguru’ and Guru Nanak on their lips. The environment was surcharged with a feeling of happiness, bliss and reverence. The rain showered for quite some time and the land was full of water all over England. The disappointed hearts were full of happiness once again.

Next day this miracle of Sikhs was praised through the TV, Radio and news media. The Sikhs and Baba Jagjit Singh were thanked by the royal family and the British government. When the rain did not stop for sometime, English people started joking with the Sikhs that they have probably forgotten to pay the agreed fee to God for the request of rain.

Due to this supernatural incidence the curiosity of people to know more about Sikh religion increased. English people started asking every Sikh how could they dominate God on their side? In the reply there were lot of reports in the newspapers that if a Sikh seriously accepts with confidence and reverence, the Sikh practical way of life, which the Sikh Gurus after their toil of 239 years have taught him, then all the supernatural and mystic powers will be ready to obey him. Therefore the words of a selfless prayer uttered from the tongue of a Sikh cannot go in vain. That is why Guru Gobind Singh, the tenth Guru, imparted his own image to Sikbs in the form of uncut hair, full beard and turban and baptised them with the blessing of ‘Amrit’ (Nectar).Guru’s own command is:

“Khalsa mero roop hai khas,

Khalse mein haun karo(n) niwasâ€

Khalsa is my own special form,

I do reside in the Khalsa.

With this single incidence it became evident in the whole western world that the Wonderful Lord has moulded Sikhs exactly in His own form. He has otherwise moulded all other human beings also in the same form but most of the world people have chosen themselves to cut their hair and beard. Sikhs are the only people who have accepted and respected the natural form given to them and therefore only they can be called His real heirs.

Some white people have started to believe that probably the long hair of Sikhs are really working like the antenna to receive the unlimited power of the Timeless Entity, because the way God has listened to their prayers, He has not listened to any others. With this incidence the non-Sikhs became quite aware about the Sikh religion and importance of hair, but due to lack of preaching and solid publicity, this sentiment could not be strengthened. But despite this, it cannot be ignored that Sikhs have been blessed with a unique power from the Sikh Gurus.

“Gursikha under(i) Satiguru wartai

chun(i) kadhe kzdhoware†(SGGS, Saloka M 4, p. 312)

God himself resides in Guru’s Sikhs,

He has selected the worthy ones.

The incidence of rain which happened in England due to the prayers of the Sikhs and reported in some newspapers of England has been recorded here for the interest of the readers:

Southall Gazette-Friday 27 August, 1976

“The organisers of the Southall Bank Holiday Show had to cancel the colourful programme of fireworks because due to the lack of water, the fire engines were not available or prepared to serve in case of any serious fireâ€.

Norwood cricket club had to abandon play for the whole season

because the ground was full of big cracks due to lackness of water.

To get rid of this distressed situation a great Sikh personality Baba

Jagjit Singh, who is expected to do a miracle of bringing rain in

Britain, has arrived at Gurdwara Sahib in Southallâ€.

Evening Mail-Saturday 28 August, 1976

When the Sikh prayers for the rain started in Southall Gurdwara, its president S. Mangat said that there is no need to be afraid, there won’t be any floods due to these rains, there will be just sufficient rain. This newspaper also published a half page photograph of the Singhs performing Kirtan in front of Guru Granth Sczhib.

This newspaper writes that the effect of the prayers is becoming evident because this morning it rained in west London, from which it appears that the Sikhs’ forecast will come true. Sikh congregations have been successful in sending their message to God.

When Sikhs were asked as to why were they so keenly active to bring rains to Britain, they said that their religion seeks the welfare for all. Secondly because of the lack of rain the Government had forced a three-day-working-week which increased the economic sufferings for many and increased the shop-goods prices as well. Therefore the president of Southall Gurdwara Dr. Niranjan Singh Mangat was determined to pray to God to bring rain to reduce the distress of people.

Guardian Saturday 28 August, 1976

The headline read “Prayers of Sikh Representatives Accepted†report by Rev. Parry.†In London the umbrellas shut for the last six weeks were opened when the rain started as a result of Sikh prayers being accepted. People came out of their houses swinging and dancing with happiness and started walking out with open umbrellasâ€.

News Agent-London

The representative of this newspaper David Macmillan has written that, “In case of bringing rain, Sikhs have succeeded 100%â€.

Steam Fair organiser J. Weston-Web has been alarmed from this prayer. He has made all arrangements for a bank holiday fair at Tewkesbury in Glouchestershiré. Due to the rains his fair could be a disaster and he might lose £ 15,000. He was confident that Sikhs’ prayer for the rain will be definitely accepted but he will be financially ruined. Therefore he would be going to sue them in the court for his losses. In reply to this, Sikhs explained to him that the rain was required for the welfare of all and at the same time they would pray for no rain at the site of his fair. Look at the miracle of nature that it did not rain in Tewkesbury, Glouchestershire where he had arranged the fair. The Wonderful Lord listened to Sikhs’ prayer so minutely. The same newspaper writes further that as a result of the prayer, it rained so heavily that due to rain the hovercraft from Dover to Calais could not operate.

Daily Express

This Newspaper in its Saturday 28 August, 1976 edition, through its reporter Johan Burns, writes in a happy mood that the rain which had gone on holidays has come back at the invitation of the Sikhs. What a wonderful shower rain is there. Bravo! bravo!

“Bhagta di sada tu rakhda har(i)jeeo

dhur(i) tu rakhda aiya (SGGS, M 3, p. 637)

(God! you preserve the dignity of devotees, You really have been upholding it right from the beginning.)

Don’t you think that the above mentioned reports published in different newspapers of England prove that Sikhs, Sikhism, and the glory of Sikh Gurus is superb in the whole world. Every religious person can be proud of it because it strengthens the faith that God listens to the prayers of its devotees and preserves their dignity and honour.

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Khalsa Fateh!

Narsingha

I presume u imply that Chandi represents shasters (am I correct)?

What do u think Chandi represents?

I think it represents the ‘mythical’ deity durga (hence I state chandi/durga)-

My reasoning for this is the tuk from chaupai (pranvo ad ekankara…):

“charan saran jeh basat bhawani [chandi]â€

"goddess chandi takes her shelter at his feet"

ur opinion pls

JtSingh,

I perceive Chandi as a manifestation of an aspect of the formless Nirankar, and worship therefore of Chandi is worship of Akal Purakh.

Can u pls explain (with bani if possible) as to why you perceive Chandi as a “manifestation†of Akal Purkh?

Thank you

u r still looking at the curtain and not the preson behind the curtain who is doing everything.

i think u may have misunserstood me...but no matter...we'll have to agree to disagree

Sorry dude, I am not gonna explain it futhur , as these things one need to realize by himself.

no need to apologise, truth comes with kirpa...

thanks for the link.

However this seems to have created more questions than answers.

in your post you state that:

Chandi pooja within Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa takes the form of learning Shastar Vidiya and respecting Sarbloh

On your site:

...do not worship any deity but Ekh Nirankar Akal Va-eh Guru, the three Sikh scriptures, Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa Panth (Spiritual Way), Udhasi, Nirmala and Sevapanthi Sikh Panth and the Shastars

These comments appear contradictory.

On one hand ONLY Akal Purkh is worshipped, however on the other, nihangs also participate in Chandi pooja (worship), with shasters rather than idols.

can u pls elborate?

btw, are you going to add a search engine on you site?

What the two people did.. they were already suppose to do.. but the way they did it just has become a reason to show to the world that it was all in there hands.

If they did what they were supposed to do, then why did GuruJi state that one should have been seriously wounded, however due to his devotion to Gurusahib, he was only slightly injured ? (hence his destiny altered)

To say you got free-will .. is like believing in ego only. coz free-will = ego.

Its not about free-will or ego, but conscience; The ability to distinguish between right and wrong

Jjj

Free-will is just an illusion. Its not there. In reality everything is pre-destined from the

very beginning and we do everything from our pre-set karmic tendencies, we cant avoid.

Have you heard of the saakhi where one disciple lives a gursikhi lifestyle where another ‘disciple’ seeks the company of prostitutes? The gursikh trips and cuts himself, while on another occasion the other guy finds a some wealth in the forest.

Word gets around and these cases are presented to the Guru (sorry – cant remember which GuruJi). GuruJi reveals that the true disciple should have seriously injured himself, however due to his love for guru, his injury was insignificant. The other ‘sikh’ was supposed to find a pot of gold, but due to his promiscuous activities, didn’t.

Moral:

Due to their lifestyle they managed to alter (within set boundaries) their kismet

Hence free will/choice/outcome is not totally fixed.

Ultimate truth is that everything is a drama staged by God and He has planned everything and does everything the way He likes and the way He wants it.

But also remember this is waheguru’s khel/tamasa (play), everything is staged accordingly. However using our conscience we’re able to making decisions within the scope of our preordained kismet/destiny- karma. Describe it as a paradox if you will…

(pritam also described above)

narsingha,

i can appreciate the respecting/worshiping of shaster...for its the protector of a warrior. Its a similar concept to the samurai, who also greatly revered their shasters...

However, my question is still unanswered:

Do Nihangs worship (Pooja) Chandi/Durga Deity (albeit in a different form - shasters, as opposed to stone idols)?

lalleshvari,

check out the shastervidya website videos, it shows the trainees perfoming this pooja...

As far as I know, Siri Harmandir Sahib/Akal Takht has been attacked 3 times, and the only one i really know of is the 1984 Blue Star time. can anyone give me more details? And apparently Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that there would be 4 attacks in total. Was this in Sau Sakhi? Please I really would like to know more on ppl's thoughts.

i've heard from a few learned elders that Harmandir sahib will get attacked again...the blood of the sikhs will be knee high (is the expression used to depicte the carange )

Guru Goind singh Ji will have already taken birth by then, from here many battles will ensue...the rivers in punjab will become polluted with Hindu and islamic blood...Khalsa Fauj (in bana) will appear in their millions...the Khalsa rule shall come...Khalsa Fateh!!

with regards to kalki, he'll arrive early due to the amount of paap happeining...it will get much worse too!

However, he'll suffer from ego after his victories...another will come to cancel him out. Read "Sikh Predictions" by Surinder Singh Kohli (or something). The book is not well written, but does offer an insight to those interested.

Narasingha,

Chandi pooja within Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa takes the form of learning Shastar Vidiya and respecting Sarbloh

Just to clarify:

Nihangs do worship (Pooja) Chandi/Durga Deity (albeit in a different form - shasters, as opposed to stone idols)?

Pls inform...

Lalleshvari,

Since you’re in the mode for seva, allow me to pose a few questions

Do Nanaksar and Rara Sahib have any linkage with Nirmalas?

I’ve heard that baba harnam singh ji was a nirmale (this Babaji was the babaji of Baba Nand singh Ji – founder of Nanaksar)

Also, In another thread you mentioned:

6. Nirmale and Nihangs used to be the ones who gave amrit:no one else

According to Narasingha, Nihang tradition states that Amrit can be only administered from Akali Nihang Singhs (with farla), else its invalid.

I presume that nirmales without Shartervidya would not have Nihang bana (hence no farlae).

Does this mean that:

1. The amrit they (Nirmale) administered was “invalidâ€.

or

2. It is not mandatory to receive amrit from Akali Nihangs Singhs (with farla)?

Your opinion please

Sukhasingh,

Interesting point about reciting the paat at particular time of day.

I’ve read that it shouldn’t be read at night too. At first I didn’t believe it, but then I read the below. (experience of Baba Harnam singh (rampar khera) ).

http://www.lotusmedia.co.uk/sikhstudent/Do...nam%20Singh.pdf

12. When Should 'Chandi Di Vaar' Be Recited?

Baba Ji would also do Chandi Di Vaar in his Nitnem every day. But a question arose in his mind. When should this Baani be recited and how often? He would often wonder. He asked many religious and saintly people but nobody really gave a firm answer.

One day, while in the hut, he began reciting Rahiraas Sahib after which he did Chandi Di Vaar. He then finished off with Sohilaa and was preparing to go to sleep. The moon was shining outside and the door to the

hut was open. He had just lay down when all of a sudden, he saw two men approaching from a distance. Baba ji thought to himself that if they are travellers then he will provide them with food and clothes and offer them a place to rest for the night. But if they are robbers, he will be prepared to confront them. While he was still thinking they both pinned him to the ground.

One held him down from the head and the other from the feet. They couldn't be travellers or robbers because they arrived at such incredible speed. They were Shaheed (martyred) Singhs. He began doing Mool Mantr Jaap. He had just completed two Mool Mantrs when the Singhs released him. He sat up.

The Shaheed Singhs explained to him that they didn't come to hurt him. They came to remove his doubt and confusion about the recitation of Chandi Di Vaar and when to do it, how much to do and how to do it. It was the fact that he thought that he would confront them that

they wrestled him to the ground.

They explained that if Chandi Di Vaar is recited after the sunset, then it must be continued all night non-stop. It is alright for two or more Singhs to do it in turn. If an individual can recite it all night then that is alright as well. A clean cloth should be spread underneath where you're sitting and you must have your bath first. An oil lamp (dhesi ghior dee joth) should be lit.

There are no strict rules about reciting in the day time. Whether it is recited one or more times, it should be done with love and affection. After saying this, they left the hut and then suddenly disappeared.

Khalsa fateh

i've uploaded to Chandi Di Var audio files onto N30 ftp server.

pls see the gurbani directory (folder).

the mp3 file will help you learn the Paath, where the realplayer file is in kirtan format.

ENJOY!!!

i was looking for this exact webpage yesterday at http://www.searchsikhism.com/issues/

to my surprise it had dissapeared :evil:

(the webmaster was going to get a stinging email!)

Glad to see this excellent page has resurfaced

Old Birs

Some Sikhs say old Birs don't include Raag Maala but in fact all the Birs have Raag Maala written in them whether you talk about Kartarpur Bir or Birs written by Baba Deep Singh Ji. One of the Birs written by Baba Deep Singh Ji is present at Abchal Nagar Hazoor Sahib and that Bir includes Raag Maala at the end. All the old Bir Sahib have Raag Maala such as Aadi Bir Sahib of Bhai Gurdas Ji and Boore Sandhu Bir samat 1662. These two Birs include signature of Guru Arjan Dev Ji at the end after Raag Maala. Another Bir Sahib of Bhai Banno Ji includes Raag Maala although an extra Shabad of Bhai Surdaas, one Shabad of Miran Bai and other stuff like Ratan Mala, Hakkikat Rah Mukaam etc. was added into it afterwards. It also has signature of Guru HarGobind Sahib Ji but right before the two extra Shabads start. Guru Ji signed the Bir Sahib before the extra Shabads. This shows that He signed the completion of the Bir Sahib.

Bir Sahib of Bohat tehseel Phalia also includes Raag Maala in the end and it has handprint of Guru Arjan Dev Ji as a signature. One Bir Sahib in Gujrat which is known as Bir of Pindi Lalla includes not only Raag Maala but also Gurbani of ninth Guru Ji. It was completed a month after Guru Ji's martyrdom. There are two Birs in Gujrat which are handwritten and they both include Raag Maala. Bir Wassu was written during the time of Maharaja Ranjit Singh which also includes Raag Maala. There are three old Birs in Jammu and the oldest one was written in 1722 and all three of them have Raag Maala. One Bir Sahib in Dehradoon was written in 1659. This Bir was completed by Guru Har Rai Ji and it was sent with Ram Rai to Delhi. This Bir does not include Gurbani of Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji but does have Raag Maala in it. Bir Sahib in Patiala was written in 1661 and it was approved by Guru Har Krishan Ji and it does have Raag Maala. Bir Sahib of Damdama Sahib also includes Raag Maala and all other old Birs. If you still don't trust me, then go look yourself. You wouldn't find me wrong here. Another Bir in village Kuthala was found which also has Raag Maala in it. The important thing about this bir is that this Bir Sahib was given Guruship by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Unfortunately, Teja Singh ripped off the last pages of this bir Sahib because there was Raag Maala in it. But it does have Raag Maala written in the index. SO this proves there was Raag Maala. Also, people who keep this Bir Sahib have said that Teja Singh himself ripped off the last pages of the Bir Sahib. All of the old Bir Sahibs have Raag Maala written and many of them have the signature of Guru Ji. How can this be wrong? It can't, of course because Raag Maala is of the Guru. Guru Ji wouldn't sign anything they didn't believe in. Anti-Raag Maala people wrote some Saroops of Guru Granth Sahib without Raag Maala and claim these to be ancient Birs but these Birs are not approved by anyone neither they have any history.

Reading Raag Maala is not bad at all. Whole Gurbani is written in Ragas and when we read names of Ragas while reading Gurbani then how can does it do harm to recite all the names at the end. Guru Ji sang Gurbani in Ragas. Did he not? And Bhai Mardana Ji played Rabaab.

lalleshvari

I suggest we start a movement to get AKJ kicked out of the Panth once for all. They can have their own stuff if they want just like Radhasoamis but they are not SIkhs. Defeat to the blasphemeous heretics!

My friend i think you're being a little harsh here. I'm sure there are many AKJers who are very devoted to the panth. however, a little misled with regards Raag mala.

Such posts will only cause Resentment.

We dont need more Squabbling within the Panth, we need Education.

Narsingha - thanks for the pics