Kulsingh5

How would you justify the election victory of Rajiv Gandhi after Indira Gandhi death ?

What has this got to do with justifying actions of Rojana?

You are indirectly if you do not bring into perspective the atrocities committed by CM beant singh and his gang of terrorists.

No I am not in support of terrorists or terrorism and neither is any other Sikh in my opinion.

Your own views of CM beant singh, kps gill, kuldip brar, etc. What do you think about them and their actions.

Rajoana is not a terrorist because he was fighting injustice.

Wrong. Where did you get this?

You have to else your terming Rajona as a terrorist is baseless.

Honestly I can't and I don't think anyone can.

You are indirectly if you do not bring into perspective the atrocities committed by CM beant singh and his gang of terrorists.

You are assuming now.

Why do you assume, if you are against Khalasthan then you are Pro Benat Singh.

Everything is not black and white.

No I am not in support of terrorists or terrorism and neither is any other Sikh in my opinion.

Ok, let’s take this statement above. The bomber who killed Benat Singh and 17 others. Were the other 17 part of the plan? The Air India bombing, 331 killed, some of the victims were not even Indian, was this not a terrorist act?

Your own views of CM beant singh, kps gill, kuldip brar, etc. What do you think about them and their actions.

I made myself very clear; I don’t really give any thought on Beant Singh and other cronies. Regarding Kuldip Brar, he was following strict orders to take out a terrorist. I still condemn the killing of the innocents. The government members who were in power during this period should be investigated and pay for their crimes but equally all the Khalasthanis who were involved should also pay for their crimes e.g. Rojana.

Rajoana is not a terrorist because he was fighting injustice.

So, fighting injustice, gives you the right to kill innocents? Even if Rojana didn’t carry out the bombing, his intentions were very clear to do so.

Wrong. Where did you get this?

The suicide bomber who killed Beant Singh killed additional 17 people. So, are you saying Rojona had no idea, if he had to act as the human bomb; he would not be harming anyone else? That’s truly daft, either Rojana is truly gullible or his intentions were that there will be collateral but it’s ok, it’s for a just cause.

No Sikh justifies the killing of the innocent.

Per you statements you seem to be justifying the "other side" of Rajoana - CM Beant Singh and gang. So you think he was "dharmee"?

You need to read through both sides to come up with your views. Maybe you are not ready or do not want to face the truth.

Per you statements you seem to be justifying the "other side" of Rajoana - CM Beant Singh and gang. So you think he was "dharmee"?

I'm not justifying anyone, did I mention anywhere the justification of CM Beant Singh and gang?

But, you seem to be in full support of a terrorist and then you are contradicting yourself by saying "No it is not simply because Sikhs oppose terrorism and have never sided with anyone supporting terrorist/jihadhist menatlity.."

You need to read through both sides to come up with your views. Maybe you are not ready or do not want to face the truth.

What views are those? That Rojana's actions were completely justified because he wanted to kill a politician. Rojana wanted to be a human bomb, he had full intentions of taking innocents with him. I don't give any thought to Beant Singh and his cronies but 17 others who got killed, how do you justify that?

If the bomber is killing innocent people then he is a terrorist. If he is killing an army general or even a politician who has been responsible for making the decisions that have led to the state killing of innocent people then he is a freedom fighter. It's as simple as that. Rajoana cannot be compared to the hundreds of Islamic suicide bombers because they blow themselves up killing innocent people. Shaheed Dilawar Singh was a martyr as he killed the mass murderer of Sikhs. Rajoana was the back up bomber so that is why a MAJORITY of Sikhs support what he did and do not want him to be hanged.

Mate, the guy is a terrorist. The lead bomber killed 17 others, who were innocent. How do you justify this? Do you think the family member of the victims see him in the same light as "majority of Sikhs"?

No it is not simply because Sikhs oppose terrorism and have never sided with anyone supporting terrorist/jihadhist menatlity. The Hindu saffron brigade and the islamic jihadist are the two faces of the same coin.

The air india bombing and the whole Panjab turmoil was/is created by india to "produce" fake fascists "Sikhs" who would rather believe that India is their "caretaker".

That's the same answer you get from other extremist groups. To justify their actions.

Rojana, who was the back up suicide bomber, would have killed innocents. By what you have said, this is wrong in the Sikh Dharam.

The air india bombing and the whole Panjab turmoil was/is created by india to "produce" fake fascists "Sikhs" who would rather believe that India is their "caretaker".

My friend, you are deluded and paranoid. Everything seems to be the fault of India and Khalistanis are squeaky clean.

In the report provided by Sher, Sikh Khalistanis are parading a terrorist as a martyr and also did he not take innocents in his act?

Karma veer Jee,

what is all this rudeness? I mean, why is your speech so full of hatred, anger and intolerance? Can´t you be gentle and talk in normal tone? is that too much?

If others opinions are bullshit for you, remember, you too are not perfect as seen, which means, your nonsense is also bullshit. So do not try to be smart, by showing off that you know everything. Self respect starts, by respecting others.

Because, as you say and repeat: parents may have taught their children how to handle things in a sensible and a responsible way, which is quite valuable, but if they have not taught mannerisms and humanity to their children, than there is a risk, that those children get spoilt, and this shows one´s true colours, when they are grown up.

You have full freedom to disagree, as each one´s level consciouss is different, each one is from a different background, etc.

Myself for example, I do agree with some of your opinions, and with some others I do not, but that does not mean, that I start disrespecting you, bullying you, and talking bullshit of you.

No Veer Jee, that is not the way.

By being good and humble one may go a long way ahead, otherwise one may find an accident and finish before one´s expectations.

Being good, costs nothing and is the base of a human being; being hard and arrogant, just creates disharmony...

Sat Sree Akal.

Well said Veeray, this was my point I made regrading, "why is there so much hatred?"

If people are full of hatred already, what are we going to teach our younger generation.

Since you have never been to a village in Punjab then it is understandable that you have little or no knowledge of what rural Punjab is like terms of hospitality. Even a Jat hating duggu like you would be welcomed with customary hospitality.

It was not Jats that turned the SGPC and Punjab police into cesspits. Jats created the SGPC and as long as traitors did not manage to hold sway with government help then these were both free from corruption. Read what C F Andrew wrote about the Akali Jathas that contained over a one third returned soldiers who claim lick ango arse. These soldiers who were Jats, Lobanas and Mazhabis were the backbone of the Akali movement. You won't find any useless tarkhans in their ranks.

"... The brutality and inhumanity of the whole scene was indescribably increased by the fact that the men who were hit were praying to God and had already taken a vow that they would remain silent and peaceful in word and deed. The Akali Sikhs who had taken this vow, both at the Golden Temple before starting and also at the shrine of Guru-ka-Bagh, were as I have already stated, largely from the army. They had served in many campaigns in Flanders, in France, in Mesopotamia and in East Africa. Some of them at the risk of their own safety may have saved the lives of Englishmen who had been wounded. Now they were felled to the ground at the hand of English officials serving in the same Government which they themselves had served ..."

"... A new heroism, learnt through suffering, has arisen in the land. A new lesson in moral warfare has been taught to the world..."

The Singh Sabhas you claim of were started by Sikhs of all backgrounds. Sikhs of all background do not like Punjabi Hindus because of what they did historically to the cause of Punjabi language. For every KPS Gill or General Brar there were thousands of young Jats who fought back against the oppressive government. Sikhs of all background apart from tarkhans fought for the independence movement. If there was a Buta Singh from the lower caste there was a Shaheed Beant Singh whose actions far surpass the traitor Buta Singh. I have yet to come across a tarkhan who undid the betrayal of Zailu the tarkhan. Even some Punjabi Hindus joined the movement and undid the betrayal of their fellow Hindu Punjabis.

Are Tharkhans not Sikhs? Jaats are the only people who achieved more in name of the SIkh Dharam?

Mate, British new how to attract Jaats, your attraction for money and power. I do agree, SGPC was created by Jaats, for one reason power and money.

For every KPS Gill or General Brar there were thousands of young Jats who fought back against the oppressive government.

What happened there? Young Jats fighting, what did they achieve? Became drug addicts and alcoholics.

Sikhs of all background apart from tarkhans fought for the independence movement.

Where did you get this from," Jat's History of Punjab Vol 1"

Paan Choodyo, twadi haal ta lalchi kootya tho wi mari ya.

What is the difference between Islamic extremist suicide bomber and this Rojana bloke?

So you guys are also glorifying the bombing of Air India flight. How is that different to bombing of Pan am flight 103 or even 9/11.

So if extremists Sikhs are allowed to do it, it's ok?

Punjabi Hindu and Muslims were also with Britishers and you Bharat Mata doesn't exist . After reading on 1857 only a fool can support it . True face of Laxmi Bai , Bhadur Shah and other Kings have already been exposed . But i can you convience a Anna like you who just want IT WAS REVOLUTION IT WAS REVIOLUTION BLAH BLAH BLAH

What evidence have you supported your opinion with? It's simple, currently it stands as your opinion and nothing else.

Wrong.

Back it up sunshine, why is he wrong? By just saying "wrong" doest change things.

The poster "Seebass" is Bhadur Singh, who now goes by the name of Bhadur Shah.

Aaho Pakistani sulle te red carpet biccha ke wait kar rehe kaddon druggie Jat aave te Lahore osde havale kariya. same loser who could not establish his farcical Khalistan in even one Punjab district. Punjabi non-jats and bahadur desh bhagat Jattan ne jo tuhada haal kitta kiddan bhul gaye? haale taq kurlande firde ho kaddi Indira nu gallan, kaddi KPS nu. Get over your wet dreams. go and plan shaam dee daru kithon auni.

LOL !!! This stuff is classic. Spot on.

Here we go again, justifying a defeat. Just proves my point.

Rather be a bahmin than a Kahliban fuudu fundamentalist scum.

What inellectual caste those who exploited people for thousand years ? We will not change our relegion philosophy to win converts .

What this "we" will not change our religion philosophy to win converts, that’s exactly what you and your gang of fuudu fundamentalist scum have done.

Khalibans have destroyed everything the Sikh Dhram stood for, you guys waving your flags of made-up glories and even defeats are symbolised as some sort of honour. Instead of learning from the defeats, abundant time is spent trying to justify them. What a poor bunch. Promoting terrorists to a saint status.

In a way it's good, no converts, slowly you will all die out.

Veer,

I apologise for the misunderstanding here, I 100% agree with your approach with kids. The approach needs patience and love without this we will truly loose the next generation or they will become fundamentalists.

I have seen many kids introduction to the Sikh Dahram and times the focus is on 1984 and the great wars. Never have I seen elders explain about the journey of the spirit.

Why, so much hate and anger being taught? Why at Vaskhi speeches are made for our hatred of Hindus?

I see our Daharm heading in a dark place.

I think so, but Harsharan veer will have to confirm.

I interpreted the above as, not trying to force religion on to them but letting them understand steadily and giving them room to digest.

Kids don't want blind faith and rituals just for display, that's why you have to approach with calmness, steadiness to let them understand in time, if you go too fast, too soon, then you are likely to scare them away.

For eg..... a kid will question why are we bowing to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and how is that different to bowing to some other scripture ?

You could answer the taliban way and say something like '' just do it and don't ask questions! "

OR you could slowly begin to explain what guru manyo granth is,..........bowing in reverence.........how Guru Arjan dev ji slept on the floor whilst the pothis and bani he was compiling were on the bed.........all these take time and understanding to digest, and parents have to be patient, calm and friendly in their approach.

Veer,

I agree with your approach and let the kids decide their own path.

I aplogise if I have misunderstood anything.

I don't think that you have interpreted the post correctly.

I can't see anything about blind faith, going against logic(which is part of illusion),... and enforcing miracles !

Why do you speak so harshly towards my respected veer ?

Pai Shaib,

I can't see anything about blind faith, going against logic(which is part of illusion),... and enforcing miracles !

Have I miss understood this:

People of younger generations seek intelctual satisfaction, as time moves forward, children of each generation is moving more into intelctual levels, means they do not want blind faith.

and this:

So while being in this world, we have to keep a balance, between swarth and parmarth, and explain the truths to the youngsters in a simple and a natural way, without scaring them, or trying to impose on them, because that will make them rebels, and create adverse feelings for the path. So we should talk to them as friends, because that is how they are used to, and then give them space to digest and assimilate the truths of the Bani, slowly but gradually.

?????

So you are trying to explain about a world, which you and I haven’t seen? What truth are we trying to explain to the youngsters and without scaring them at the same time?

As Kaliyug is moving forward, the wind of Maya is blowing harder.

People of younger generations seek intelctual satisfaction, as time moves forward, children of each generation is moving more into intelctual levels, means they do not want blind faith. When we were young, we used to play with marbles or fly kites and so on, now since they are born, they are surrounded by technology, with smart phones, tablets, computers. I remeber a few years back, my cousin´s son, who was hardly 2 years, was handling an iphone like an adult, was dialing his dad´s number and sending messages, which even I can not do today, or maybe I will be able to do it after taking me some time, and these youngsters, they do everything(technology) very fast.

Their sat antenas(minds) catch, grasp, grab, everything which happens in front of their eyes.

So naturally, in this tech age,they want answers with sense and logic, as in this field, everything is done with the aid of science, which works, and is sustained on logic. Because that is how the sciences of this world work.

In the worldly sciences, first we learn(theory) then we work on it.

While in the spiritual science, first we need to work(bhajan bandagee), then only we get the knowledge or gyan.

So while being in this world, we have to keep a balance, between swarth and parmarth, and explain the truths to the youngsters in a simple and a natural way, without scaring them, or trying to impose on them, because that will make them rebels, and create adverse feelings for the path. So we should talk to them as friends, because that is how they are used to, and then give them space to digest and assimilate the truths of the Bani, slowly but gradually.

Sat Sree Aakal.

I completely disagree with your post. You would like the younger generations to follow blind faith. Instead of explaining with logic, you would prefer them to accept miracles?

So you prefer the youngsters to believe Baba Deep Singh fought without his head?

WOW!!! Sikh Dharam's entrance to the 21^st century.

I never thought I would say this but the US should give the call to the non-combatants to vacate the areas under the ISIS control and then use the nukes.

I would agree with you but knowing these lot (ISIS) they probably sneak out with the other civilians.

Punjabi language, great language but sadly the last greatest writer of Punjabi literature was Shiv Kumar Batalvi, in my opinion.