Sherni-E-Punjab

LOL..Beat me ..Listened 2 minutes of it...That was the last time I touched that cassette.

You know in UK Ajmeri Baba, Peer Sahib and Pundit Maharaj? You won't believe that major cash flow of their income comes from Punjabi population of Punjab.

LOL, Well Duh...Punjabi Population's beliefs are still deeply dominated by old mythology and crap. Plus, Ajmeri Baba, Peer Sahib, Pandit Maharaj only advertise in every single desi related media and newspaper that exists. Its funny, if you call any of these so called problem solvers, they ask for your credit card number first. LOL ..Its all just a money-making business.

I personally don't believe black magic exists, its just our thinking - and perhaps coincidence and things out-of-the-natural. Like, how are you going to kill a person ...or hope for their death by putting ashes in their car?? LOL!

Perhaps, in addition to watching the Independent Inquiry on CNN, you should watch the live hearing. The commission was to question Condoleeza Rice as to how she played a role in pre-9/11 and also she was voicing the whole Bush Administration as of course she is their national security advisor.

Moreover, I never came to definite conclusions , all I asked was what are your opinions/thoughts/ideas/questions after viewing the hearing. Regardless of the hearing, Condoleeza Rice is still a very intelligent woman...and in addition all I said was " My perception of the testimony is much similar to that of Senator Charles Schumer, D-New York."

Also, the PDB was released yesterday, which in addition has left many in questions..

I barely suggested some voices..so please do not get on me and say I came to conclusions.

BTW, faithfreedom is not a reliable source- you got bunch of fools throwing around sh*t.

What in the world does littlegreenfootballs.com - has to do with anything politically related...its about web design. LOL

hahahahahah i laffed too @ jatt of punjab ..dyammmmmmmmmmm i thought i was a bit konfused.. this guy is purely out of it !

Hope you are joking me right, but she is the US national security adviser, or the right hand of President Bush.

She is a very intelligent woman.

Those who heard the hearing today, please share your ideas, thoughts, questions that arose, or opinions you would like to voice.

Please follow the link below if you wish to view the testimony of Condoleezza Rice Before 9/11 Commission:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/08/politics...&partner=GOOGLE

If you would like to know more about the 9/11 Commission, please do not hesistate to visit the site listed below:

http://www.9-11commission.gov/

My perception of the testimony is much similar to that of Senator Charles Schumer, D-New York. Below I write his words, and I don't think there is a better way to re-word them.

"The bottom line is very simple, it's not the fact that this administration didn't try very hard on terrorism, because in the eys of security advisor Rice they did. It's not the fact that certain things were missed, that were missed by this administration and let me underscore previous administrations. But it's the fact that this administration, - president and his advisors-, have this inability to say that mistakes were made - under our watch and under previous watches - that leads to an attitude that we don't correct the problems. [Time elapsed] What bothers me the most about the testimony of Condoleezza Rice and the actions of this administration are not that they didn't do things right. Who could ask anyone to do that in this brave new post 9/11 world? But the inability to gather the truth and figure out from that truth- what was done right- and what was done wrong and improve things and make things better and one thing we learned in vietnam is that when our leaders didn't accept the truth- it made things wrost. When our leaders failed to accept mistakes, it made things worst. Unfortunately, today's testimony shows an inability to admit that mistakes were made and move forward and correct those mistakes and make America a more secure place in the future. "

Wow...That jus hit deep at home..

Left Speechless..

Only death I fear..is a slow, painful one..

US Organizations

The Sikh Coalition

Miri Piri Foundation Inc., Texas

Sikh-American Association

Sikhnet

Bay Area Sikhs

Sikh Network

American Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee (AGPC)

Gurdwara Singh Sabha, Richardson, Texas

United Sikh Angels

The Sikh Center of Gulf Coast

Gurdwara Sahib of Houston, Texas

Sikh Cultural Society, New York

Baba Makhan Shah Lobhana Sikh Center, New York

Mata Sahib Kaur Gurdwara, Glen Cove, New York

Gurudwara Singh Sabha of Washington, Renton, WA

Sikh Association of Central Virginia

Southern California Sikh Council

Divine Power Inc.

Quami Ekta

Sikh Students Association, University of Illinois - Urbana/Champaign

Sikh Students Association, Northwestern University

Sikh Students Association, University of Chicago

Sikh Students Association, University of Illinois - Chicago

Sikh Student Association at UC San Diego

Sikh Council on Religion and Education (SCORE)

Waheguroo! International Network

The Sikh Youth Commission

IkOnkar International Sikh Youth Magazine

National Gurdwara - Washington D.C.

SikhPoint.com

Central Jersey Sikh Association, New Jersey

Sikh-Sewa, New York

Sikh Sisterhood, New York

Columbia University Sikhs

Sikh Association of Boston University

Sikh Volunteers of Washington

Sri Guru Singh Sabha of Glenrock, NJ

The Washington Sikh Center, Gaithersburg, Maryland

Sikh American Heritage Organization, Wayne, IL

The Kaur Foundation, Maryland

Sikh Foundation of Virginia, Virginia

United Sikhs in Service of America, New York

The Sikh Students Association, University of Virginia

Singh Sabha of New York, Inc., New York

Sikh Society of Dayton, Ohio

Sikh Student Association of Binghamton University, New York

Sikh Students Association - University of California at Los Angeles

Sikh Center of Orange County, California

International Institute of Gurmat Studies, California

Sikh Research Institute, San Antonio, Texas

International Sikh Youth Federation, USA

Sikh Student Association of the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor

United Sikh Students, Newark, NJ

Guru Gobind Singh Foundation, Maryland

South Asian Bar Association - DC Chapter

Guru Nanak Foundation of America, Silver Spring, Maryland

Guru Nanak Sikh Society of Yuba City, CA

Sikh Study Circle Gurdwara, Georgia

World Sikh Council, America Region

Stanford Sikh Student Association

Sikh Society of Michigan Inc., MI (USA)

Sikh Gurdwara, MI (USA)

Sikh Students Organization, Wayne State University, Detroit, MI

Gurdwara Guru Nanak Darbar, Somervill, MA

Sikh-American Awareness Forum (SAAF) of Hamilton, New Jersey

Sikh Mediawatch and Resource Task Force (SMART)

UK Organizations

Sikhs In England

Akhand Kirtani Jatha UK

British Sikh Federation, UK

Metropolitan Police Sikh Association

Sikh Secretariat, UK

Sikh Nari Manch UK, Sutton Coldfield, UK

Council of Sikh Gurdwaras, Coventry, UK

Desmesh Darbar Gurdwara, East London, UK

Gurdwara Guru Hargobind Ji, Coventry, UK

Guru Nanak Gurdwara, Gravesend, UK

Guru Nanak Gurdwara, Leicester, UK

Guru Nanak Gurdwara, S. Birmingham, UK

Guru Nanak Gurdwara, Walsall, UK

Guru Nanak Gurdwara, Wednesfield, UK

Guru Nanak Prakash Gurdwara, Coventry, UK

Guru Tegh Bahadur Gurdwara, Leicester, UK

Nanaksar Gurdwara, Stafford, UK

Awaze Qaum International, UK

Federation of Sikh Organisations UK

Federation of Sikh Organisations, Leicester, UK

Guru Nanak Darbar Education Committee, UK

Khalsa Human Rights, UK

Khalsa Satsang Jatha, Southampton, UK

Maharaja Dulip Singh Centenary Trust, UK

Walsall Sikh Youth, UK

Working Group on Sikh Education (WORKSE), UK

Canadian Organizations

Gurdwara Sahib Dasmesh Darbar, Canada

United Sikh Federation, Surrey B.C. Canada

Sikh Students Association- Montreal (McGill University, Concordia University, Universite de Quebec a Montreal, Universite de Montreal)

Canadian Sikh Council, Quebec, Canada

Oliver Sikh Temple, Oliver, BC, Canada

International Sikh Youth Federation, Canada

Sikh Students Association, University of Waterloo, Canada

Satnam Education Society, Surrey, Canada

West Coast Sikh Youth Alliance, Vancouver, BC Canada

Australian Organizations

Australian Sikh Organisation Inc.

Sikh Kirtan Prachar Mission of Australia Incorporated

Australian Sikh Association Inc., NSW, Australia

Australian Sikh Association Inc.

Sikh Khalsa Mission Inc., Australia

German Organizations

International Sikh Youth Federation, Germany

New Zealand Organizations

Shri Dashmesh Darbar Papatoetoe, Auckland, New Zealand

Punjab and India based Organizations

The Nanakshahi Trust

Nishkam Sikh Welfare Council (Regd.)

Go Find The Links Ya SelF:p

Yet you claim Bhagat Singh is courageous, and brave. He writes about atheism, and then at the last moment in fear of death, returns back to his sikh religion? If you have ever read his writings, you would be aware of how much he stated himself he would never be scared of Death, he doesnt need the support of "God" to get him thru life

Oh - Don't tell me you haven't used hypocrisy in your life....Why don't you understand - that his faith beliefs are irrelvant to what he did !! Tell me how did Sikhi help him when he was tried and hanged at Central Lahore Jail?? LOL, perhaps you don't know because you've never been tried and hanged..and the amount of courage that comes along with giving your ife up.

And those qualities are necessary for advancement of society?

If thats true, then why hasnt India shed its image of a Corrupt Democracy?...why is it that other nations still claim India is no democracy at all. Bhagat Singh died 70 years ago, and India has went to hell since. He should have known the people were ready

LOL, one man's achievements/work might be something but aren't enough in society to change everything! Fine example of that is in millions Americans were protesting the war against Iraq, did that stop Bush from giving orders to the armed forces?? ..What have you done for India - that makes you think Bhagat's achievements lead India to go to hell?

---------------

When Shaheed Bhagat Singh was arrested for the bomb blast in the assembly, he used the trial as his forum for his fight against the British imperialism, and to bring his message out to the people. Because all meeting and "propaganda" activities were banned by the British, this was the best way to spread his message, and at the same time to recruit new freedom fighters. This trial was covered by the media all over the nation. People could read about Shaheed Bhagat Singh and his comrades all over India, and in all kind of languages. And he was just growing more and more popular for every day the trial went on. Their "Inquilab Zindbad" cry was on every Indians’ lips. At that point, Shaheed Bhagat Singh was more popular than M. K. Gandhi in India.

Instead of saving Shaheed Bhagat Singh, the Congress, and Gandhi, were worried about their own positions in the indenependent India. They knew that if Shaheed Bhagat Singh surrvived the freedom fight, their positions would be threatened.

For me, Shaheed Bhagat Singh will always be one of those persons who inspires me most. He'll always be one of my biggest idols of all time. His fight for freedom, unlikely "Gandhism", united India as an unity. He didn't care if people were Sikhs, Muslims, Hindus, Jains, Buddhist, Christians or Dalits. He looked at all Indians as "Indians", and didn't distinguish between the religions. While "Gandhism" was meant to be an ideology for Hindus, and Hindus only, Shaheed Bhagat Singh gathered people from all religions and geographical areas in India, under his ideology.

Now, 73 years after Shaheed Bhagat Singh gave away his life for his country, he's being forgotten by the politicians and media. I watched the news on Zee TV today, and they showed a short clip at the end. This is really sad. I mean all the politicans never seem to forget the days when M.K. Gandhi, Indira Gandhi or Rajiv Gandhi died. And what did they do compared to what Shaheed Bhagat Singh did? [bikram]

----------------------

Khalistani Singh,

Your history seems to begin at 1984.

All I want to say to you is here is the source for the NYJournal : http://www.nyjournalnews.com/newsroom/0406...warsuspect.html

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For the best of all of us, I am not going to post anymore on this topic as its getting pretty useless...you guys just point fingers, when you as individuals have done nothing as compared to these Shaheeds....

Bhagat Singh will always be the same for me ....

And on an ending note,

Shaheed Bhagat Singh Zindabad!

Shaheed Rajguru Zindabad!

Shaheed Sukhdev Zindabad!

Inquilab Zindabad!

LegendarySikh,

First of all - I'd like to make it aware to you that I said in my very first post in regards to this topic I was proud of ALL those who serve their countries - regardless of race, culture, beliefs, nationality, and etc.

Then , Khalistani Singh questioned me and asked "Why not - Raj Guru and Sukhdev?"

Again, I emphasized enough I think in my first post : I am proud of men and women who serve their countries and fight for the freedom of others.

In my initial post, I said :

Bhagat Singh should be held in high regard for his possesion of high qualities of courage, honor, leadership, patriotism, scholarship, and service, which are necessary for one to not only be a good citizen in a civilized society but also these high qualities are necessary to the preservation and protection of the fundamental institutions of our government and the advancement of society.

If I have made it so clear, then no need for the following assumptions :

You either feel for Bhagat Singh the most because you can relate to him, or you just happened to research him the most because of his religious-roots or cultural roots.

Mind you, if you praise Bhagat Singh, you may as well praise every warrior that fought for the indepedence of Hindustan. I wont get into that matter, your choice

Shaheed Bhagat Singh Ji inspires me most because the sacrifice he made is the biggest sacrifice an individual can make. Being an ex-armed force member, I know what it takes for one to serve their country..

I praised Shaheed Bhagat Singh for his seva to his country, dekheya jaweh ehe koi nawi ja wadhi gal nahi, sewa chaye insanyat di hove, chahye kaum di, or Desh di per

He gave away his life for his country, and it's independence. He wasn't just one of those revolutionary freedom fighters who was fighting without any plans and political standards.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dude, what's the need for all the extra words ?( ie: bullshit, beef, hell, and etc.) - and absolutely no need to type in capital letters.

I just quickly glanced over the reply and would like to point out one point now:

SOURCE WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT, THE INDIAN GOVERNMENT IS SO CORRUPT IT HAS THE WORLD THINKING ITS THE LARGEST DEMOCRACY, when it kills dalits, tamils, chrisitans, and jews in India. 2 INDEPENDENT RESEARCHES SHOW THAT the massacre of sikhs in 1998 was cause OF INDIA. AND BESIDES INDIA HAS FOOLED THE WORLD SO MANY TIMES, think with LOGIC. AMERICAN MEDIA is diff from ARABIC MEDIA, and ENGLISH MEDIA, each media publishes whatever the bullshit they wanna feed to you.

Earlier, you mentioned that the thirty-five sikhs were killed in Kashmir when President Clinton was there. Please check your facts, as I have no rememberance of President Clinton visiting South Asia in 1998.

"never assume, research, get your facts straight, then argue. "

Well, tell me how else are you finding out your facts? Were you there in Kashmir when the Sikhs were killed. NO! ..Both you and I are trusting outside media resources (whether they be arabic media, english media, or russian media.)...and there is not much more than that you can do unless you were there at the instance.

Please provide a reference to where you found that it was the Indian Government responsible for the thirty-five sikhs.

Following here the sources where you can read much similar information as you read below:

According to the Indian army and media reports, the Hezbul Mujahedeen was involved in the January 1998 killing of 23 Hindus in Wandhama and the March 2000 massacre of 35 Sikhs in Chattisinghpora as part of a plan to ethnically cleanse Kashmir of non-Muslims. The group has claimed responsibility for dozens of attacks against Indian security forces. [source: NYJournalNews

http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/archives/arch...r20000321a.html

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/20000325/main2.htm

If you can please show me where the Indian Government is responsible for this, I'd be more than willing to change my thinking in regards to this aspect.

And do it with a reference please and not just like "You are dumb, you should know this, how funny Indian Government has brainwashed you."

-----------------------------------------------

THE REHAT MARAYDA IS MADE FOR THE KHALSA. SIKH IS A PERSON WHO IS A DISCIPLE, LEARNER, SEEKER OF THE TRUTH, STUDENT, one who learns throughout his life. SIKH meaning in punjab "SIKHNA"- TO LEARN. If you believe in the basic principles of the religion, respect the 11 gurus, and don't speak against Sikhi, i'd consider anyone a SIKH.

You stated, "You may be on your path towards Sikhi, however you are not a Sikh until you have fully mastered the guidelines set forth by Guru Gobind Singh Ji."...GURU GOBIND SINGH JI NAY KHALSA PANTH NU ESTABLISH KITHAY PANJI, he molded the GREATEST LEVEL A SIKH CAN ACHIEVE, this is the sikh's goal in life, to follow or be like the khalsa.

What?

The Maryada by SGPC is addressed as "The Sikh Rehat Maryada"

http://www.sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/section_one.html

In the Maryada, a Sikh is defined at a much complex level than what you have mentioned.

You say "Raj Karega Khalsa" ....Well, aren't the Khalsa the Sikhs?

I will address the other points later.

Nice site, but I think its important to give credit to the individual who made the wallpaper, unless they wish to remain gupt.

Hello all,

I guess we'll start the commenting on the most recent posts.

gurfateh to everyone,

a comment was made about shaheed bhagat singh's mother being half marati. That is false! His mother was a rai from mohrawallee and I can find out the native village and "got" for you. I can say my mother would know this better than most anyone else because shaheed bhagat singh's mother was her real nani.

Wow...it is nice to know, however, again I don't know where this religious “part†of it came from, but I was only justifying Bhagat Shaheed Singh's bravery/courage/leadership etc. as if he was an individual of the human race – just like anyone of us here.

In terms of god, his mother told my nani (who was the sister of shaheed bhagat singh) that he used to go to gurdwara at sangrad, and give a ramalla...that was common. The arya samaaji link goes back to the freedom movement of that time. Arjun singh, the grandfather of bhagat singh did "promote" arya-samaji views...the way he lived his life though is questionable. Kishan singh though pushed the mainstream sikh views in that time. (ie. weddings according to the sikh anand karaj).

Again, religion does not matter to me(and I guess most others who look upon Shaheed Bhagat Singh) as its totally irrelevant to his accomplishments and what he did for his nation and what he gained from doing it.

I guess I agree with those who say that he was an indian freedom fighter as opposed to a sikh freedom

Whether for Indian, Sikh, Islamic, Jewish freedom, he was and will be always the same great individual he was. Freedom fighting for national pride as got nothing to do with religion as in national pride people of all races, cultures, religions, backgrounds create “national pride networks.†Its important to realize he may have not taken Sikhi to a next stage, but he didn't badmouth or badname Sikhi, like most of those who 'claim' to be Sikhs today and yet give it such a bad image.

To Gurjote,

1)"How can you assume things? Just because I didn't specifically mention them doesn't mean I don't hold them at the same scale. Its just that Bhagat Singh inspires me most , and thats why I directly appreciated his work and never did I say that Raj Guru and Sukhdev were not important. " Infact I specifically mentioned, " On a more serious note, I am proud of men and women who serve their countries and fight for the freedom of others."

AGREED.

Glad to hear, we are on the same page of the book here.

Bhagat Singh wasn't a SIKH cause he didn't even LOVE SIKHI, and didn't even believe in GOD, one of the basic principles, he didn't even try to learn.

Ok – I understand where you come from- but I don't know how you relate his accomplishments and what he did for his nation to his “birth religion.†Sure, he cut his hair, perhaps as I've mentioned before for some national pride is first – and he did it for all – not just one specific group. Back then, who knew 1984 was to occur? One does not have to love sikhi, or believe in god, or even show interest in religion, to do something great for mankind and leave an imprint in history forever. If Bhagat Singh is anyless of a great person to you cause of his faith beliefs, then it is up to you.

Who said one has to follow the rehat 100% to be a SIKH? I know that many of those believed in the SGGS, most people who CONSIDER THEMSELVES DO, and there last words fighting in battle would have been along the lines BOLAY SO NI HAL..

Thats like me saying, who says a Sikh cannot smoke pot? The Rehat Maryada, is the key to a Sikh's conduct. If you do not “obey†the conduct, then how can you be considered a Sikh? You may be on your path towards Sikhi, however you are not a Sikh until you have fully mastered the guidelines set forth by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Commitment comes along with being a Sikh, you got to give some to gain some. Do you even realize every drunk bastard, every pendu, every Shottu Mottu in Punjab who is born into Sikhi considers themselves Sikhs, even if they not even touched the SGGS once in their lives. They might declare that SGGSJ is the holy book which they live by, but it doesn't necessarily mean they know what concepts are covered in. All Jatts consider them self Sikhs, attend Gurudwara on Saturday, consider themselves Sikhs yet they haven't even abolished the foolish “caste system,†which is directly talked about in SGGSJ. I am not saying everyone is like this, but majority do not even have basic awareness about Sikhi and what it takes to be a Sikh. Every Tom Dick n' Harry can say “Boley So Nihal†, but does that make them a Sikh?

o I have something against Hinudstan? YES I DO, there was no justification in the 1984 attack? If you wanted to kill Bhindrawale go ahead, but don't attack gurudwaras all over India, and rape our women, and torture our fathers. And what did Hindustan do? Just sit and watched, police didn't do a thing. Is there a justification to that? Have you read the quotes of the Indian politicans at that time? I think any true Sikh would not appreciate what Hinudstan did in 1984.

The holocaust that took place in 1984 was not the result of the Indian Government but as well as the mentality of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale, who served as the main voice for the “Khalistan/Sikhi supporters.â€At the time of 1984, Indira Gandhi was much like in the same position as George W. Bush is right now, she was not favored by the majority and all wanted a change of rule. However, Indira Gandhi being who she was first supported Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale and then turned her back. Bhindrawale should have been smart enough to not fall in her trap in the first place, and then he tried to overcome the Indian Government, there is no justification for Bhindrawale to have set armor/weapons in Darbar Sahib. It is not a weapon/battle ground, its a place of worship – no need of that stuff there. I understand the Indian Government may have not done or now even doing anything for the betterment of Punjab , but if Bhindrawale spent the money he spent on providing AK47s to teenagers investing in Education, perhaps the Sikhs would have had a voice in the Congress today, which today is deeply dominated by “hindus.†Some justify Bhindrawale's acts as being totally OK as his Gurus would have ordered him not to “sit back,†but did he ever think what would happen to “his sikhs†in the long run? What was Bhindrawale's, considered a Sikh by many, justfication for keeping armor in the Akal Takhat, when Guru Ji clearly stated that any fight or havoc should not originate in the boundaries of Amritsar? Bhindrawale's own mentality lead him to being used by the Indian Government as a scapegoat.

The following passage justifies and explains what really happened and its something I agree with:

“The point I am trying to make is that the whole crisis, of course, engulfed the entire Sikh community as it did, but was the result of either sheer political naivity, or a false sense of being all powerful while he was in fact being manipulated like a puppet just to destroy Sikh polity in Panjab.

Three days before the Blue Star some highly educated friends of mine went to see Sant Bhindranwale in connection with the interference that was going on in Sikh academic institutions in Panjab at the later's behest. After the meeting they discussed the tense situation there. To the question as to what would happen if the army moved into the complex the answer was that instructions have gone out to every sikh that they should march on to Amritsar as soon as they hear about the attack (as if the army could not know this wonderful plan to oppose it), and my friends were told 'in confidence' that he was in contact with Pakistan and that Pakistan would recognise Khalistan as soon as attack takes place. Such naive thinking and the whole sikh community being held at stake cannot be pardoned. Whether he laid down his life or not his actions cannot be justified especially the way he hid inside the complex. He let himself to be used as a pawn in the internal congress tussle between Darbara Singh and Giani Zail Singh in

which Darbara Singh had to go due solely to the role of Sant Bhindranwale. However, the gain of Giani Zail Singh meant the psychological and physical loss for the Sikhs worldwide. When people hail Bhindranwale they mainly do so to express their Jatlike tribal instinct where shedding blood means propitiating some hidden force which would automatically bring about the desired result. It does not always work. In this day and age, intelligence and objective analysis of the situation is far more important. Sadly, we not only lost Sant Bhindranwale who had that chrismatic personality which could have been much more useful to the Sikhs but we also lost a whole generation of youth and in the bargain receive this feeling of hurt which will stay with us for years to come. [source: Sikhnet]

DO I HATE HINDUS? No I dont, I have friends who are hindus and muslims. Do I hate the INDIAN GOVERNMENT? Nope, but do I think what they did was right? NOPE, what our gurus like it, if we just sat here and didn't do anything for those that were tortured, raped, beaten, and still lay in jail cells? And about Sant Bhindranwale, did I mention him once? I know he may too have been a puppet of the Indian Government, its all politics and corrupt, I never said once I was a believer in Bhindranwale. NO MATTER WHAT, everything that occured, for all those innocent people that were killed and tortured in the pinds, city, and etc, for those who I am fighting for, not for Bhindranwale. I'm sure if you saw your Dad being killed, or mother being raped, you wouln't be justifying 84 and would have more disgust towards the Indian Gov

Would are gurus like it, if they knew that his own jampal Sikhs were planting bombs in airplanes and taking innocent lives? Bhindrawale didn't realize that Indian Government was using him as a scapegoat? Just because of one man's fault, individuals were tortured,raped, beaten, and lay in jail cells- this is NOT the Indian Government ,but the mentality of our own Sikhs back then. Indian Government were so clever that they eluded Sikhs and made them fall in their traps. You have consequences for your wrong decisions, and the suffering back then and now is what Sikhs face. You may have not brought Sant Bhindrawale Ji in here, but for your information 1984 occurred because of him.

I oppose war only when its needed, this Iraq war was not needed at all. We went after Saddam since he had "nuclear weapons and so called relations with Al-Qaeda." Have we found any of those things to be true? NO. Then what did the Bush Adminstration justify as for going to war? "OH SADDAM WAS A BAD GUY." Do you know whats going to be the consequences, we are only going to spring up more terrorists in Iraq, they don't like our occupation there, young kids are full of hate when American Soldiers run into villages and search with a force for any "bad" people. If you have watched the New York Times/Discovery Channel or History Channel, and the documentaries on the Iraq War, you will see the fear on this children faces. Yes, we could have collectively gone to war with the support of other countries and the United Nations. Why haven't we gone after South Korea, the have openly admitted to having WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, why don't we go after them? QUITE PUZZLES ME. BUSH wanted revenge, Saddam never gave a threat to the United States, he wanted to finish what his father started and get the OIL. There are so many other "CRUEL" Dictators, and other countries like South Korea that have WMDs, yet we don't even mention them.

Please lets not start about who is right and who is wrong in regards to Operation Iraqi Freedom, if you wish to discuss this please do open a new thread and we can take it from there. However, for now, its important to understand that the world is a lot better off than Saddam Hussein...remember the media does not serve the opinion of each and every Iraqi. Moreover, one nation cannot be carrying out or liberating five nations at a time – first came Afghanistan, Next Iraq, and who knows who is on the next agenda?

Do you know in 1998, when President Clinton visted India, in the village of Chittisinghpoora near Kashmir, the Indian Gov assassinated 35 Sikhs, trying to steer Sikh anger towards Muslims? This is the chaal and corruption of the Indian Gov.

According to the Indian army and media reports, the Hezbul Mujahedeen was involved in the January 1998 killing of 23 Hindus in Wandhama and the March 2000 massacre of 35 Sikhs in Chattisinghpora as part of a plan to ethnically cleanse Kashmir of non-Muslims. The group has claimed responsibility for dozens of attacks against Indian security forces. [source: NYJournalNews]

Have I spoke against Bhagat Singh? No. Have I informed many what his beliefs were? YES. Do I hate Bhagat Singh? No. Do I think he was a great freedom fighter? Of course.

His beliefs are totally irrelevant to what he did - ..damn! If you can let me know how anything he did involved a bad-mouthing Sikhi or how any of his work should have regarded Sikhi, please let me know – then I will consider his beliefs in.

In regards to the other tid-bit you mentioned:

Why I assumed you didn't have American Pride?

“? I use to be one of those hyped people, all proud about being American, etc etc, ready to die for stupid thingsâ€

As far as I know 'use to be' is of past tense.

Why I assumed you didn't appreciate what America gave you?

“It's the same case, the richer gets richer, the poorer gets poorer. “

I am sure if you had appreciated what America gave you – you would have certainly appreciated (how your dad's life changed from instance to the next) and not made this comment once..because it is not TRUE!

Have you seen the reactions of veterans? They don't want war, have you watched CNN or MSNBC? reacations of parents whose sons have died?

A lot of my close friends are stationed overseas, some in Iraq and some in Afghanistan. Do I know of parents whose sons/daughters have died? Yes, and when someone enlists in the Armed Forces, they go right knowing in that survival isn't their first priority- surviving is not in their hands.

I am sure if you ever talk to someone enlisted in the Armed Forces, they'd tell you - but here is spiff I had with a SSGT. Once...

We were saying “good-byeâ€

I go : Keep it safe – don't get shot

This is what he said to me with full confidence : He goes when on the battlefield he thinks about his life last and plus he has no control of his life, anyhow.

If that ain't bravery, tell me what it is? Sure, relatives suffer afterwards but they knew it right that it might perhaps come one day.

Do I support our TROOPS? HELL YES, cause thats what there job is. They have to follow orders, I also love the American troops and don't think that they had to fight this war.

The following comment isn't really supporting the troops, instead you make it sound like they are desperate and just want to get a free education:

“It's all 18-19 yr olds who need money for college that enlist in the military. “

Do we take freedom for granted? No we don't.

LOL, All I can do is laugh - , how can you say we don't take freedom for granted? Over half of the children/young adults or even me and you in America – have we thought about how it would be to live without Freedom? Its like every child that is born in America is given freedom at the time of birth- they don't need to worry about not having it. Its totally freedom for granted...when in schools when they say the pledge of allegiance – do you realize what small fraction of students actually get up/ put their hands on the heart/ and recite it? Do they even really care? No..Totally freedom for granted.

Right now America needs to stop their international support in every part of the world, unless where its unified. We should stop supporting Israel, and mind our own business.

I am not even going to say anything because the world is like “family†(Meaning we are dependent on each other and etc.) ...You possibly outright cannot ignore what is happening in another “nation.†You say Canada is a peaceful country, I'd hate to tell you this – Its thanks to America as we perform out all of their “worldly†related business.

We always enforce our policies everywhere.

Tell me in this world why are we “ruling†the world right now? Its to our policies ..and them working actually. Wouldn't you think if our policies have helped us in order to become a great nation we are, they couldn't help anyone else who is living under dictatorship or communism, or anything else non-democracy?

After wars, we are going to expand our businesses into these countries, I'm sure Iraq and Afghanistan will be filled with American Coporations, money will come back to us. But if we really want to secure our freedom, stop butting into other peoples problems.

No one is limiting American Corporations to be the only one in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I think I've mentioned every point you raised - I might have missed one – as this is just a long response but do let me know or re-raise it If I have not commented. Again, I apologize if I have offended you or anyone else here.

I heard the winning was apparently fixed, as in India had given cash to Paki..for the win..LOL

lol it was about something, until i thought my post looked stupid, and edited it out and put "K" ...hah

ill add something to it lata.

"Well sorry to break it to you, 1984 did occur and I can care less about the freedom fighters of Hindustan, and Rupy if this is the case why don't you praise Raj Guru and Sukhdev, seems like your just praising Bhagat Singh just because he's a "Punjabi" or "Sikh."

How can you assume things? Just because I didn't specifically mention them doesn't mean I don't hold them at the same scale. Its just that Bhagat Singh inspires me most , and thats why I directly appreciated his work and never did I say that Raj Guru and Sukhdev were not important. " Infact I specifically mentioned, " On a more serious note, I am proud of men and women who serve their countries and fight for the freedom of others. "

"Times have changed, therefore my opinions on India's indenpendence have changed. Especially since 80% of Sikhs took their lives for India's independence yet we got nothing in return. Remember those 80% who died, would they have expected India to treat us like they did? I don't think so. They died for a cause, for a DEMOCRACY, not for an attack in 1984. "

Again, you stated earlier "How funny that people consider Bhagat Singh a sikh", well those "80%" were not all sikhs, that I know for a fact- cause never have 80% of Punjab's population followed the 'rehat' . So, how do you justify your fact? And If you have something against "Hindustan", or hindus for that fact, trust me they helped numbers of Sikhs in '84 as well, as portrayed in Hawayein. You can't generalize all in "one." Its game of life, people didn't give their lives in the Vietnam War, so that only Bush could be held responsible for the over 500 deaths decades later. In addition, soldiers of the U.S. in the past have not fought for "limited freedom" (as experienced with the Patriot Act). This is just one of those ways how things work - you lose some, you gain some. And also, many 'Sikhs' (Gursikhs to be exact) believe that even Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale were wrong...and those are the same sikhs that actually lived through the 1984.

"And if you are so patriotic of about being American, then why didn't you post anything for 9/11 or the anniversary about Iraq War? I use to be one of those hyped people, all proud about being American, etc etc, ready to die for stupid things. It's funny, cause after wars politicans shake hands, and all those who die are not even honored."

How do you know what I have done to repersent my country or what kind of service I have been involved in? I posted something about Shaheed Bhagat Singh as the majority in my town do not even know of him, you appreciate, you remember someone with the "majority" they served. It wouldn't look right, If I publicly remembered those who died on September 11 in Uzbekistan or something, would it now? Its the same, I posted a spiff about him here as most of us know who he is, what he did, and why he should be appreciated and honored. For both September 11 and the day that marked the year since's Iraq's conflict, I did something here in town along with many others who shared the same feeling. Trust me, I ain't one of those pimped up Proud to be Americans, without a reason,...America is my life. Perhaps, you haven't met a true patriotic and what it means to some to even say the pledge of allegiance to the US. If this is the case, I suggest you read here : [ I will post the link as soon as I find it again, I've posted it on this site before in a topic related to the armed forces]

"I don't see Bush personally going on the battle field, or any of the rich. It's all 18-19 yr olds who need money for college that enlist in the military. It's the same case, the richer gets richer, the poorer gets poorer. "

Please don't talk without the actual facts. No everyone in the army is not 18-19 yrs olds, as only a very few fraction that enlist in the military to receive a free education, Infact, I'd say if not all every soldier currently carries, honor, and pride in being an American and that they do not serve this country for "selfish" purposes. Do you even realize what it takes (courage, willingless, and etc) to be in the Army? Trust me, its not an easy thing. We here in America - take freedom and other things for granted and do not even realize what they actually mean . Its true that you don't realize the value of something until you have actually had to live without it. So, be happy, if not proud, to live in America. No its not true "rich get richer" and "poor get poorer" , please read stories about those who have actually lived/living the "American Dream." If not, I don't mean to sound selfish, but I will tell you the story of my own dad for such purposes....When he came to America via ship, he did not have a single penny (and yes, I actually do mean a single penny) ....and today this is what he has to say , " That one of the biggest challenges I face today is that how will I teach my grandchildren and moreover my own children, the value of a dollar, if they right know it that they will not have to live a single day without it." To emphasize the point that 17-18 year olds aren't the only ones serving in the army, no general of the army, major, 1st Lt. , SMA, captain, Brigadier General, Colonel, Major General, LTG, GEN are 17/18 year olds. Whether you believe in this or not, Bush , too, gave service to America once upon a time. [http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2003/01/ma_217_01.html]...and a president is suppose to be a chief-in-commander and not the guy on the field, it is one of those duties that come along with being a president.

"And Bush could've prevented this war, war shall be the last option, as Guru Gobind Singh Ji once said, not the first...and if you are gonna be so patriotic about America, and not admit that Bush was so wrong, you are driving your ego. "

Just because George W. Bush is the president right now, this doesn't obligate every citizen, resident of the United States to obey him. Be thankful you live in a democracy and not a dictatorship - or even that fact in a communist country. Personally, there are few points that I agree in regards to the Operation Iraqi Freedom and on the same hand there are points that I totally disagree with. However, being an American, my basic rights are outlined in the Bill of Rights , thus I have the right to peaceably assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

"Sikhi, has given me a greater perspective, the whole point of being Khalsa is to look at world from a universal view. Otherwise, I'd still be always justifying how America is always right, etc etc. "

This is your own personal opinion. But I want you to realize that be glad again you live in the US as you are allowed to have the following right : "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;"

"http://allaboutsikhs.com/martyrs/martyrbhagat4.htm

http://allaboutsikhs.com/martyrs/martyrbhagat7.htm"

Please as I said before, it does not matter if Shaheed Bhagat Singh was an atheist or even for me it doesn't matter if he followed Islam, he still deserves the same respect. National Pride does not come with religion, are you going to generalize that I believe in Christianity as I am proud to be an American, where Christianity is the majority?

Respect to Shaheed Bhagat Singh and others who gave their lives for the betterment of others as always.

I apologize if I have said anything wrong or have offended you in any way - or anyone else reading this.

Me tooooooooooooooooooooooooooo with so much respect...

Edeh de ghar ghar jamman innit!

loll @ neo's room..tarey chand ki bayeo aa:P

thats a very nice picture of harmindar sahib, harpreet...such a nice angle...captured so much,

itz cuz da pakis let them win,

Being a sikh or an hiindu is irrelvant to this topic as I did not praise Bhagat Singh for his honarable work for religion.

Not everyone choses to put religion as their first priority, but instead some choose to put national pride - that might perhaps be the case for Shaheed Bhagat Singh. Personally, I'd die or give up my life for my country, and not think about religion twice.

Anyhow, I did not praise Shaheed Bhagat Singh because he was sikh, but I hold him in respect because along with many others he sets a fine example of an ideal citizen. In most socities, people with such qualities are hard to find and thats usually the cause of the downfall. Shaheed Bhagat Singh did not only give his life for Hindus, but for all mankind and I am sure Sikhs would have been proud to be Indians if all of this '1984' instance had not happened in history.

Please do leave religion out of some topics.

how sick! ...god damn indians

The Noble Prize for Wishful Thinking ..Goes To Amardeep Singh of UK.

I am appalled the fact no one posted anything on Shaheed Bhagat Singh, perhaps one of the most noteworthy contributors to modern inspiration.

Bhagat Singh should be held in high regard for his possesion of high qualities of courage, honor, leadership, patriotism, scholarship, and service, which are necessary for one to not only be a good citizen in a civilized society but also these high qualities are necessary to the preservation and protection of the fundamental institutions of our government and the advancement of society.

Its important to realize even today, those who have fought for it , freedom has a taste the protected will never know and March 23 should be day where each and everyone of us reflects about what this Saheed-E-Azam did for his motherland, and what he gained from doing it.

On a more serious note, I am proud of men and women who serve their countries and fight for the freedom of others. Individuals like Shaheed Bhagat Singh continue to provide hope to those who are willing to sacrafice their lives for the betterment of society.

Once in awhile, please take the time out of your daily life to thank those who protect you.

:cry: :cry: :cry:

Being a patriotic American, I'd like to personally thank the vetrans of foreign wars, troops that are currently stationed overseas, and the army personnel that serve us right here at home.

-- -----------------------------------

If you are further interested in what Shaheed Bhagat Singh did for his country and its independence, please visit : http://www.boloji.com/people/04002.htm

Wow..It seems so unreal that individuals young as 17/18 years in age put their life on stake for OTHERS. ..

Not when most of your stress is a result of other situations in life.

Anyone watching tonights match??

Hehehehe, I better go now..do stuff..n enjoy the cricket match lata...and support ma homies from pakistannnnnnnnn...

Lose India..Lose !