sidak

Here's some pics of him trying to dance.

http://www.lsesikhpunjab.co.uk/photo/Fresh...s/IMG_2886.html

and again

http://www.lsesikhpunjab.co.uk/photo/Fresh...s/IMG_2883.html

Bhangra Bob?! Haha. I saw a video of him challenging a 19 year-old girl to a Bhangra dance-off during a Freshers Fair last year. Poor sod was humiliated.

Regarding the picture of the Gurduara in Dubai, it would have been helpful to provide some context. The Gurduara is actually contained within a Mandir, which is located in the floor below, and the property is run by the local Hindu community. My understanding is that since there are no "official" Gurduaras in the UAE (except a few "unnoficial" ones set up by Sikhs working in labour camps outside of central Dubai), but there is an official Mandir, the two communities have come to some sort of agreement about having a Gurduara of sorts in the centre of Dubai where the (mostly immigrant labourers) can attend.

Although it is not clear in the photographs, the Darbar walls are covered with paintings of Hindu Devta/Devi's. It's not uncommon for people to first do Puja in the Mandir, which is located on the first floor, then come upstairs into the Gurduara and bow to the Guru, and then proceed to bow to each of the paintings in the Darbar.

I don't think there is a regular Granthi in the Gurduara, so I would'nt be surprised if non-Sikhs were taking care of everyday functions.

"I feel discussing maters with people who preserve the maryada is a better way of learning than consulting academics work."

I maybe wrong, but I believe Veer AmritPal Singh will be analysing and deconstructing precisely such 'maryada' that you refer to. Then it should be clear whether it is indeed an authentic 'maryada' or just something that has been invented a few hundred years ago [somewhat akin to the charge that is laid to the Singh Sabha], and been given the appearance of antiquity by those whose interest such 'maryadas' serve.

MARK OF EXCELLENCE

Becoming Guru-Centered

The Sikh Research Institute offers a variety of theme-oriented sessions for emerging leaders in the community - high school and college students and young professionals. Each event seeks to facilitate learning while enhancing personal development and growth for each participant.

Mark of Excellence is one such program, offering a series of lectures, presentations and workshops. Participants attend personal and community development sessions that seek to foster the Sikh values based on Gurmat traditions: Sikh scripture, history, and discipline. Other principles of universal significance are also incorporated that do not disturb the harmony of the Sikh faith.

Please join us next month in London for a Mark of Excellence program for college/university students and young professionals.

Date: Saturday – October 8, 2005

Location: University College London (UCL)

Theme: Guru: Connecting with the Divine Light

Participants: University Students & Young Professionals

Sponsor: Sikh Societies at Cambridge University, Oxford University, and University College London

Registration: University Students: £5 / Young Professionals: £10

This Mark of Excellence event will feature the following sessions:

Session I: What is Guru? – Meaning, Role & Importance

Session II: The Prophet-Genius of Ten Nanaks – Attributes, Lives & Contributions

Session III: Guru Granth & Guru Panth – Origin, Development & Institution

Session IV: Personal Relationship with the Guru – Effort, Faith & Grace

Session V: Questions & Answers – Open forum to seek opinions from a Gurmat perspective

For more information and to obtain a registration form, please contact:

Baldeep Kaur

07984-937173 | bk254@cam.ac.uk

About the Sikh Research Institute

The Sikh Research Institute is a 501©(3) nonprofit organization seeking to develop a principle-driven community by protecting the core and enlarging the resource pool. The Institute’s mission is to facilitate training and development while inspiring Sikh values, create global awareness of Sikhi, and deliver solutions to the key challenges faced by the Sikh community. All donations are tax deductible.

"UNESCO WHS applies to the Vatican, Westminister Cathedral & Canterbury Cathedral - ie three major religious sites"

I recall Jasdev S Rai making a comment that the Vatican itself was not subject to WHS, where do you get your information from ?

On another note, say for example that Harimandir Sahib was granted WHS status, and Baba XYZ Singh comes along with his coterie, adamant to tile over some important artefacts in the name of 'Seva'; What powers would UNESCO have to stop this, and exactly how would their powers be enforced?

this paper can be found in the new journal 'sikh formations'. edited by navdeep's uncle arvind-pal singh mandair. if i get a pdf copy, i'll put it up here.

alternately, you can ask your resident 'scholar' francisco luis (aka bahadar nirmalla aka shaka nyorai) who is also at soas, and also has a paper in the above mentioned journal on 'sikh shia relations'.

If the Bhanno Bir is not the original, then there is no basis from which to say that Mirabhai's works are part of Gurbani.

Both Bhanno Bir and by implication, Mirabhai, theories have been debunked, yet this talk will use Mirabhai as an example of women whose works have been included in the Guru Granth Sahib ?! Amazing.

I'd be interested to know when and where Niddar, or 'Team Niddar' learnt scriptural analysis techniques to come to the conclusion that Mirabhai's works are part of Gurbani.

Well Well Well Gupy,

Any 'Sikh Women Seminar' which claims that Mirabhai's writings are part of Gurbani - when the Bhano Bir claim to be the original copy of Aad Granth has been discredited numerous times [by academics I would trust more than a postman from Birmingham], makes me more than a little suspicious ...

"But remember, this is a academic talk looking at historical evidence and facts, not hear say. "

Sorry, but where did Niddar gain his Bachelors/Masters/PhD from, and will this presentation be accompanied by an academic paper so those of us who can't attend can at least get an idea of the 'historical evidence' and 'facts' that will be presented ?

here's an email currently on a few of the e-groups ...

******

Sikh Societies Joint Statement on ‘Traditional to modern British Raj Sikhism’ Lecture Series and ‘Snatan Sikhs’

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!

Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

In recent weeks the Institute of Sikh Martial Heritage have organised a four-lecture series entitled ‘Traditional to modern British Raj Sikhism’ to take place at a number of London universities. The sole speaker for the lecture series is Mr Niddar Singh.

Promotional material for this event which has been circulated electronically and via flyers has stated that the lecture series is supported by a number of London-based Sikh Societies.

Members of our London-based Sikh Society committees were approached by associates of Mr Niddar Singh to book venues on their behalf, but without specifying the theme or nature of the lectures. It was only after the above mentioned promotional literature was circulated that we became aware of the precise nature of these events.

We would like to make clear to all concerned that contrary to the false advertisement and rumours that are being circulated; we did not and will not support this lecture series, the Institute of Sikh Martial Heritage or Mr Niddar Singh.

We have informed the relevant Student Unions that the below listed London-based Sikh Societies do not wish to be associated with this lecture series or the organisers, and that all venues booked under their Society in relation to this lecture series be cancelled immediately.

In addition to the London-based Sikh Societies, we would like to categorically state that the Societies listed below do not wish to associate themselves with the Institute of Sikh Martial Heritage, Mr Niddar Singh or any other group promoting him.

With respect to misrepresenting the Sikh Societies, we demand that the Institute of Sikh Martial Heritage issue a written apology to all Sikh Societies concerned.

On Behalf of the following Sikh Societies,

Kings College London Sikh Society

University College London Sikh Society

London School of Economics Sikh Society

Imperial College London Sikh Society

Cambridge University Sikh Society

Oxford University Sikh Society

Hertfordshire University Sikh Society

Brunel University Sikh Society

City University Sikh Society

Luton University Sikh Society

London Metropolitan University Sikh Society

Kingston University Sikh Society

Sure ... Bob, Yankee & Co. must be blameless then.

Kamalroop Singh - may i ask what the title of your thesis is (PhD i assume), the university it's being written at, and who is it being supervised by ? I think i can safely assume its not at Oxbridge or any of the London universities since none of their supervisors is a Dasam Granth specialist with perhaps the exception of Jeevan Deol, but he's not a PhD supervisor.

Meanwhile, I await the next 'Panthic' CD with great anticipation. I hope it is a runaway success as the first 2 attempts. Hopefully the Nihangs will be mentioned again...perhaps the 'rapper' Malkeet may improve his lisp and his comand of the English language, so we can actually understand what he says

Awwww, after all the pages and pages Narsingh devotes to condemning others who he feels indulge in petty "slander" and "hatred" against him, his gurdev Niddar Singh and his maha gurdev Santa Singh, he makes these silly statements about someone who isn't even involved in the discussion!

Mod's Note: Message Edited due to un-wanted bickering!

Anyway, we look forward to your articles(s), just make sure they have more words than pretty pictures of santa singh and/or decapitated goats or quotes from some dusty sadhu sitting in a tree. :roll:

Sidak, according to the legal system, what you have just stated can be considered a threat. It doesnt bother me, but it may lead to complications for yourself in the future should any problems arise...

Narsingha, before you wet your pants, you should read my post before it was edited by the mods. I clearly state that this is not a threat, but just my personal analysis, of events that may unfold as a result of your "article", based upon previous occassions where people have offended leading sikhs figures.

If using logical inference is a crime, then i must be guilty !

This much I can promise: once the articles have been released, you will have wished that you have never pushed for such information to be made public....

Having witnessed the anger and rage of Sikhs, young and old, at the 1984 demonstration in London last Sunday, I am certain that if, in your misguided attempt to portray Santa Singh as whiter than white for his role post-Blue Star, you attempt to slander the Kharkoo Singhs who gave their lives in 1984, or try to mock Baba Jarnail Singh as you have done with other Sikhs on your shastarvidyia site, then you'll be the one wishing you'd never opened your mouth.

Moderator's Note: Part of your message was edited. Please take it over the pm.

Mod Note: It has no relevance to this discussion veer ji and Sikhawareness does not post personal details about anyone, if people wish to know they can ask him directly. There is no need for you to post information even if it is on public websites. All irrelevant posts will be deleted.

Mod Note: There is no need to post personal details, if people wish to know they can ask him directly. There is no relevance to this discussion.

Neo, What's the website where we can find this paper/abstract ?

GurFateh!

NeoSingh, can you please post the website link for the full paper please, seems like a very interesting paper !

Gajjar Singh,

Anyone who recommends Pashaura's work for serious study must have a loose screw or a total lack of understanding of authentic scholarship.

Perhaps you should take a look at the following statement by Pashaura to the Akal Takhat in relation to the book you have just recommended:

The Five Singh Sahiban,

Sri Akal Takht Sahib,

Amritsar Sahib

Your Holiness,

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa; Waheguru ji ki Fateh. Under orders from Sri Akal Takht Sahib, appearing at the Takht Sahib, this humble servant pleads guilty to the five charges in respect of my thesis (The Text and Meaning of the Adi Granth), read out as well as given to me in writing. I hereby reject in thought, word and deed all such objectionable formulations that occur in my thesis. I beg forgiveness of the Panth for whatever hurt the conclusions drawn by me in my thesis have caused to the Panth. In future I pledge to serve the Panth as a humble servant of the Panth. I also willingly accept whatever decision is announced by the Singh Sahiban.

Sd. Pashaura Singh 25/06/1994

***

Furthermore, you should read "Early Sikh Scriptural Tradition: Myth and Reality", by Balwant Singh Dhillon, who demolishes Pashaura's gutter level scholarship.

Narsingha,

When you and your cohorts invite people to your "akhara", or offer "hadh torh" challenges, you claim it to be consistent with the maryada you follow - but when someone wants to meet you - one on one, man to man, you accuse him of displaying "southall rude boy" tendencies. To anyone other than you, that attitude smacks of fear - sure you might be a big bad nihang with the rest of your boys in the akhara, or when niddar singh is there to back you up, but when it comes down to you - one on one, you're not as tough or macho as you'd like us to think.

Again, when you and your buddies have questions to ask, such as the lineage of the taksal, you expect people to take your questions seriously - yet when people ask you to provide information or references to back up the many claims you have made on your two websites, your only retort is "we are not going to spoon feed you".

Bikramjit Singh has provided enough evidence on this thread to suggest that the Sarbloh Granth has a shady history at best - but rather than counter his arguments with something constructive, you resort to your all too familiar tactic of accusing him of being a fool for not believing in what you believe - is that representative of the "diversity" of snatan sikhi ?

You accuse people of hiding behind their computers like cowards - one could say the same of you, except that you hide behind your fellow neo-nihangs and/or niddar singh.

to the moderators: narsingha will surely accuse me of waging a personal vendetta , but i write this only to hihglight the blatent hyprocritical attitude which he has demonstrated on this forum time and time again.

I couldnt help but notice that you edited your post AFTER i had replied to it ... oh well.

If you consider my reply to be a "pathetic insult", perhaps a little introspection is required on your behalf, since all you've been doing for the past few months is consistently avoiding questions put to you by numerous people and playing the "wait for the website" card.

Sure ... why don't you hold your breath while I start designing a website just to answer all your searching questions . :roll:

What makes you think we havent already approached the Taksal and confronted them

Then why are you still playing your broken record of "no one's answered my question" ? If have actually met the Taksal Singhs, then they will have answered all your questions.