shindasingh

team adobe up with macromedia and you got the best package on the net, unless you pay for it then your just left with a really empty wallet

Gurmat Camp!!!!

Location: Shromani Sikh Sangat Mississauga (Mississauga Gurdwara)

Date: August 8th -13th (Overnight Camp)

Ages: 10 and up (preferred)

Registration Fee: $50 (Covers all activity costs)

All Sangat is invited to attend a Gurmat Camp that is being held at Shromani Sikh Sangat Mississauga in celebration for the 400th Anniversary of the First Parkash of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The camp will be filled with lectures, discussions and workshops alongside Kirtan, Tabla, and Gatka classes. Katha in English will also be provided on behalf of Bhai Amandeep Singh (Calgary) from the Panth Khalsa Study Center.

Sport events include; football, basketball, and soccer.

Recreation events include; Laser Tag, Mini Golf and Bowling.

Those interested in attending can register online @Online Registration (Remember to print out the completed registration form and bring it with your $50 to the camp)

Or register in person @ Mississauga Gurdwara Sahib.

This camp is also being dedicated to the memory of the late, Bhai Parminder Singh (Guru Nanak Academy Surrey) who helped in making the March Gurmat Camp held at Sri Guru Singh Sabha Malton a great success.

For more information you can contact,

Shromani Sikh Sangat Mississauga @ 905-828-2710

Email @ sewa@gursikhijeevan.com

Website @ http://www.gursikhijeevan.com

I was wondering if anyone had images of Ontario Khalsa Darbar Dixie AKA Dixie Gurdwara. I'm looking for a nice quality image, prefferably one from the side parking lot.

Also if anyone has images of Guru Gobind Singh Ji Stadium that would be great also, please post them in this thread, or you can email/pm me @ shindasingh44@yahoo.com.

Thanks in advance..

I doubt anyone with half a brain pays for their software anymore...

Only reason I say that is because now its easier then ever even compared to 5 years ago to get stuff, after the whole p2p evolution.

I pretty much use both opera and internet explorer full time. Opera's is useful when you need to hack website info, because of its "lack" of features, or when I need to do heavy downloading..... Internet Explorer I like when I just need to go through things.

Main plus with internet explorer is how well intwined it is with Windows.

Although I am not sure about Sant Samaj's linage as from Maharaja Ranjit Singh, or if the Sant Samaj that I'm thinking about is even the same.

Mid 1900's SGPC started to implement a lot of new ideas and started making changes in Sikhi. This resulted in much confusion within the Panth and caused for many splits, and other things to start up. One of the major and most dominating issue of the time was the SGPC's implentation of Pad-Ched printing of Maharaj Saroops.

This "noise" being made, led to the main sevadaars, great and respected Saints, and leaders of the major Jathaybandi's etc to come together to oppose such actions that where being taken by the SGPC.

The various Jatha's and samparada's of the time got together with a common goal and had several meetings at different venues to do veechar on this issue. Such meetings occured at Sri Amritsar Sahib, Damdama Sahib, Keeratpur Sahib, Rara Sahib and one of the largest at Bhinder Kalaan on the 11th of September, 1959, at which time all the big time saints of the day came together and created a committee, which consisted of the following Mahpursh:

1. Sant Baba Hari Singh Ji Kahaarpurieea

2. Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindranwale

3. Sant Ishar Singh Ji Rara Shib

4. Sant Ishar Singh Ji Kalairaa(n) (Nanaksar)

5. Sant Baba Bhagvaan Singh Ji Rairoo Sahib

^ Agreed...

Anyone play AOE?

Author sure did seem hell bent against Maharaja Ranjit Singh...

Seems like everyone here is ready to complain and cry about it, how about all those offer attemps they made to fix things...

I just find it funny how on one side your telling people to stop acting black, because it seems your telling them to act white??

What difference does that make?

i'd join in but i hate counter strike....graphics are just sad

in other words, buyer beware

Nay consider yourself jacked..

All you can do is give the user negative feedback, which will result in them getting a low ebay grade warning others not to buy from them. If payed a lot, then its worth fighting for through paypall and ebay, but chances of success are slim (from experience), but why not go out fighting?

Dear Mr shaka nyorai,

There are many reasons why one may want to learn things. Financial, personal interest/hobbies, etc are all reasons which can contribute to one's interest in perusing some form of vidya. Some like to learn just for the sake of learning, others are motivated to learn something due to it contributing in some other aspect. This motivation will also vary the degree to which we learn something.

For me French had little purpose and still seemingly does, as it does not help me in any real form and as I have little interest in learning French just so people can say "oh he's educated", or so that I can charm people when trying to hustle or impress them in some respect.

It was with that reason that I never pursued or cared much for it. Again that was my whole point that I apparently failed to make, that being, in a broad general context, individuals do not tend to learn or pay attention to a form of vidya unless there is some form of motivation to do so. For a large population of those who visit the Gurdwara these days the main motivation behind it is the way others may view them if they don’t go. Thus, simply by going they satisfy that motive. For others who go to learn, they satisfy this motive by listening, and for those who go simply out of love and devotion they get what they go for in the end also.

Do not take this as me saying that French is useless, at the time and for me still I have little need for it, thus there is no motivation behind me learning it, and those presented by you of it making me seem more cultured has no real bearing.

Did Guru Gobind Singh learn Sanskrit because it would bring him some economical advantage?

Guru Sahib's wisdom is infinite and beyond comprehension, so I will not even begin to try and answer as to why Guru Sahib would do what they did, but like I said earlier there are many different forms of motivation for one to learn something beside that of just having an economical advantage.

Gurbaksh Singh Kalaa Afganaa?

No offense but sounds like a frustrated missionary...

Although a lot of what he speaks can be said to be true, and myself experienced a similar outlook once, but I later realized that the fault lies within, i.e. not being able to understand etc. After making a push to understand a little more and paying more attention one gains more out of it themselves. (Duh!)

“bored by the meaninglessness of the guru's diwanâ€

In school the most boring class I had was French, partly due to the fact that I didn’t understand what was happening, but largely due to the fact that I didn’t see a purpose for it. (Not like I plan on ever working in Paris or Quebec).

Same I feel can be said by a lot of people for Sikhi in general, and thus the visiting of the Gurdwara is a socitial ritual people do just for acceptance so that they don’t get labeled demonic or athesist. (ie. avoid other people saying things like “HAWW, you don’t’ go to the Gurdwara!?? Do you believe in God?!? You’re a bad person, your going to hell†etc.)

The author seems to put a lot of the blame on the Gurdwara’s, precharaks or in his words, “heebie-jeebie merchantsâ€. The real fault I believe is at home with the parents. If parents don’t stress school and the importance of getting an education the chances of failure and dropout are that much higher. Same way if a parent doesn’t emphasize living a life of Gurmat then how will the child ever care for it.

Some can argue that well if the parents fail in this aspect then the Gurdwara should at least put emphasis on it, which they do. But, just like in school, the schools put emphasis on working towards post-secondary goals right from the start. (i.e In early grades through exercise that explore future careers) the end result however in most cases that I’ve seen being that if the child comes from a household where post-secondary isn’t given importance then the child will lack or show little interest regardless of how much of it is put on at school..

“my educational needs to learn about the spirit have never been met at the gurdwara - does this mean that the guru had no teaching and learning strategy - i think not.â€

Just like there are some good schools, and then there are better schools. Some schools offer more, while others due to resources & management don’t. Find a school (gurdhwara) where you can learn more. If you’re in a position where this can’t be a reality, then if you really want to learn then you’ll learn on your own. Get books and study, learn arth. When you get in the company of learned people (True Giani’s, mahpursh) discuss with them your questions and confusions and ask for there understandings.

In the end, “You can take a horse to water, but you can’t make it drinkâ€.

Forgive the mistakes in the above, just a bunch of rapid thoughts I thought to share after reading the original post.

I really don't know why people persist in considering these Sobha SIngh types of pictures to be Sikh art?!?!??!?!?!?!

It's not as we did not have quality art but it seems people just prefer the tasteless propaganda posters rather than the refined miniatures of puratan SIkh artists such this one depicting Guru Hargobind Ji! check the link: http://www.exoticindiaart.com/product/HY17/

Any one notice Guru Sahib being depicted with body pericings ie earings, or am I just seeing things?

And both pictures are eqaully cartoony so what difference does it make?

Guru Hargobind singh ji Maharaj..

Think you mean Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji...

Found this article today, falls in with the discussion I think...

=========

Covering ‘beri’ tree may disturb birds’ habitat

Varinder Walia

Tribune News Service

Amritsar, June 25

The over-enthusiasm of the SGPC to cover the five-century old “Ber Baba Budha†tree with fibre glass to keep “parikarma†of the Golden Temple free from shedding leaves could disturb the natural habitat of birds, especially sparrows.

The existence of the ancient tree is under threat as the SGPC has put up a steel frame around it without consulting experts. A marble frame has already been constructed around lower portion of the tree to preserve the memory of Baba Budha, the first Head Granthi of Darbar Sahib who used to supervise the construction of the Sikh shrine. The iron frame is also obstructing the view of the Golden Temple.

This is being done at a time when the SGPC has been making allout efforts to get the Golden Temple declared as world heritage site by UNESCO.

Mr Major Singh, manager, Darbar Sahib, however, claimed that experts were consulted before making efforts to preserve the tree. He said the existence of the tree was under threat and experts from Punjab Agricultural University had started visiting the Golden Temple for organic treatment against insects. He said the fibre glass was being put up to save “parikarma†from droppings of the birds.

However, Dr Gurbachan Singh Bachan, former SGPC secretary, said that in his capacity as Coordinator, NSS, Guru Nanak Dev University, had made the first-ever attempt to save the ancient three “beri trees†in the Golden Temple complex about two decades ago. He said he had sought the services of Dr Khem Singh Gill, the then Vice-Chancellor, PAU, who had deputed a high-level team for preserving the tree. He, however, said that loading the tree with tonnes of iron frame and fibre glass would definitely disturb the natural habitat of sparrows. He said Sikhism was compatible to the environment and ecology and hence many Sikh shrines were named after trees.

Dr Suresh Chauhan, nature expert, said that the efforts of the SGPC to cover the lower portion of the tree with fibre glass would adversely affect the air pressure too. He said there was need to lessen the weight rather. Dr Chauhan said that engulfing of tree with iron and electric tubes would adversely affect its health.

Dr Bachan said that in 1986 he had persuaded the radical Sikhs, who were in full control of Darbar Sahib, to prune some branches of the tree with a view to lessening its weight. The experts had also helped in sprouting “beri†at the root level.

building schools

Well can't really hate on AKJ there, after all Khalsa School Surrey is pretty much what it is, due to contributions from members affiliated or associated with AKJ.

Heard of other gurmat schools in India also under AKJ's management or contribution, but then again thats neither here or there.

Had a digital copy of this once, I think I got it via email from the Naam Net e-group, or maybe downloaded it from DC++, but at the end of the day I lost it, so anyone else have a copy they can share?

Really off topic, maybe even un-appropritate to this thread..

Just a benti to Sangat to address as Saroops instead of Bir.

The real insult to injury came when Akali Baba Santa Singh leader and head of one of Sikhi's most sacred institutions the Budha Dal, accepted the funds from congress against the will of Sangat.

Sikhs are not a charity case. We do not need the support of congress to live, to grow to strive. However Jathedar Santa Singhs actions sent the opposite message. That we give up, you win, we need your money we need you (in reference to India).

Beast, it was Kamalroop who initiated the topic, and Lallshvri who eloquently added to his message on basis of 1984 of "neo-sikhs = nazis", to which my original post was addressing, and you lost me with the whole punjabi thing, as I made no mention of any such thing in any posts, so could you please clarify why that was directed to me.

I apologize if you or anyone else was hurt by my comments.

Beast,

Before this thread becomes embroiled in a dispute over the rebuilding of the Akal Takht

Kind of late for that don’t you think? Considering that’s what Kamalroop’s posts make most mention of in the whole thing. Or maybe it’s just me missing the whole “underlying†message that our history and culture is at risk from Taksal, AKJ, and SGPC who are all collaborating together to destroy it?.

As per my other post which I was asked to elaborate on, I also agree that we need to preserve our culture and history but what happened in 84 verses what’s happening elsewhere to be played of as being one and the same is where I disagree.

Narsingha said,

One should question as to WHY the S.G.P.C/AKJ/Taksal etc are so keen to destroy such works....

and Lalleshvari replied,

They abviously have something to hide...

Narsingha and Lallesvari, I can only ask what your views are for these groups to "destroy" such works and what reasons you hold that make you feel in that certain way. Also why the singling out of SGPC/AKJ/Taksal when representatives of groups such as Sant Smaaj, and various other Jathebandi’s/Samapardaa’s where also present in making the decision to rebuild the Akaal Takht.

I know making assumptions is never appropriate but I'm left to believe that you feel that they are actually working with Anti Sikh Forces, who would like to see nothing more then the fall of the Panth in hopes of there own glorification? If what I presented is in line or similar to your view maybe you can elaborate as to what each would gain, considering all three groups mentioned have conflict between each other to some degree. So really what does each group have to hide?

Beast, I personally have little respect for SGPC but admit that I know very little about there past (pre 84), however am still insulted to be dubbed as being part of them let alone an SGPC supporter as made claim by you. I can only ask that before you say that only mudslinging will occur, you yourself restrain from such actions. Slapping someone then saying lets not fight is not a good way to go about doing things.

Also,

Mods, can we make sure that this thread doesn't get hijacked by people who only wish to make personal attacks.

WHAT personal attacks did I or have I made?

I agree Sikhs in general need to start preserving there history much better. Nirmalaa Sampardha’s I feel have done the Panth a great service in this area especially at late when SGPC has been putting pressure on many Dera’s to let go of many historic Granth’s so as they claim can be taken “better care†of. There is a Singh that I know off, in the London Ontario area who has also started to accumulate a vast collection of historic Granths which would have otherwise been disregarded.

If your offended by any of the above then realize it was never done with any intent and I apologize in advance.

Congratulations to Mr. Kamalroop Singh and his sidekick Lallshiveri for cleverly incorporating the 1984 destruction into this.