Harmless

Mehtab Singh, what Islamic country is this? Surely non muslims should be free to eat and drink during the the month od ramadan.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Thanks for the update, I too attended this vigil. It was indeed educative for the wider public and brought Sikhs together specially the young ones.

I would like to suggest that this takes places every year, and people's comments and feelings are recorded.

Those who organised the event, Thanks and Well done!

Give me the link and I'll do my best.

It is one thing to drive an ennemy away it is another to have protection walls. BEcause there is no religious culture anymore among SIkhs most young SIkhs have no idea of SIkhi and this equates to a city having no walls. We need to educate the youth in traditional SIkhi (puratan or sanatan) because it is a complete system.

Sorry for taking this long... I have been engaged in off online matters.. the link is dead..I can't seem to retrieve it....koee gal nai, sooraj utte thukan naal, suraj diya kirana te koee asar nai painda!

We should all write letters of complaints to the BBC airing our greivences. We expect nothing but best, we need to let the BBC know this. Also, the so called historian Jeevan Deol was a joke his entire conduct was offensive: He was browsing through the pages of Adi Garanth as if reading an ordinary book. He did not show any respect, the least one would accept him was to have his head covered. I personally felt that this pseudo historian was a waste of time and big time fake. The information he gave about the languages used in teh Adi Garath was not correct either. There was no mention of Gurmukhi, Persian or Sanskrit. The guy was unreal!

All write to the BBC. I shall too!

Dear Shaka, I have read some of your posts and understand that you are learned person in particular of the world's major faiths. I seek your wisdon in in relation to Islamic religious bigotry and their belief that Sikh girls must be converted! Here is a link to Islamic discussion on how to convert Sikh people in particular Sikh girls.

http://64.4.26.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN...6amp%3bt%3d8764

I am sure you can destroy their argument with your knowledge of the different Muslim sects and Sikhi.

With regards

H.

Read Professor Prithipal Singh Kapoor about the mighty Maharaja

Jassa Singh Ramgharia.

Mcleoud has attemped to write about Sikhi and along the way distorted it a great deal. His work is contentious and Sikh scholars of history do not agree with his theories.

Mehtab Singh ...very cool name and congratulations man! You are an inspiration!

What pro-Sikh propaganda? If only!

I applaud these 2 girls for their bravery and courage to face the truth and to make positive changes. Waheguru bless these 2 souls!

Thanks shaka nyorai for posting the above picture of Baba Vadbhag Singh.

See the likeness of the Baba to the Sikh Gurus. Such blasphemy!

Are you sure that they give them the same status as of the Sikh Guru's or you just assumed that? Have you ever asked them?

I visited my long distances chacha chachi some time back and saw a `guru' picture, (the same saroop of a Sikh Guru) I asked my chacha chachi,which Guru was depicted in that portrait. They both surprised at my lack of knowledge of their `guru' told me that the picture was of a Baba Vadhbhag Singh. I became more and more curious and asked them further questions about this Baba. There is a dera near the Himalyas in India, and upon visiting this dera the sick people are cured and so forth.

Please make your own mind, I rarely assume.

Dear Sardu, Insaaf Singh and Sikh Philosophy. The Sikh religion advocates harmony and peace. We must also harbour these fundamental tenets of our religion too. In today's world we need to strive for strong foothold in politics and media. Both media and politicians have worked together in India to strip the Sikhs of their pride. People can be educated and informed and campaign for justise and truth launched via the internet, hence my suggestion to Insaaf Singh.

Forgive or Forget we must not! We forgot partitioned India, we forgot partitioned Punjab in 1966, if we forget Operation Blue Star and the mass massacres of the Sikhs. What next? Are we to expect another Galughara? Sorry for being so pessimistic!

I have not come across this Baba in any Sikh history books. but I do know couple of his followers who worship him like an idol and also gives the same status as of the Sikh Gurus.

Insaaf Singh, there has been no insaaf for the Sikhs in the post partitioned India. Grievces are too many, atrocities are too many and must not be either forgiven or forgotton

Sardu, those who choose to forget their history repeat the same mistakes, and the mistake of the Sikhs are that they are Sikhs in India.

Sikh Philosophy, Insaaf Singh does not have to travel to India, he can inform, educate and campaign for Insaaf from any part of the World.

.

Jahan and Sikh Princess: you have both understood my point, SPOT ON! and Jahan Jee. I too appreciate your contributions to the discussions forum even though we donot always agree with one another

All please read this particular post of Sikh Princess, her wisdom indeed in commendble!

SP wrote:

I think you have all misunderstood Harmless veerji/penji

Bhai Gurdas tells us that as Sikhs there is greater merit in us explaining a shabad of Gurbani to another Sikh than there is in us building seven temples of Gold dedicated to God. I take this to mean that it is incumbant on us to try and lead a Gursikh life ourselves as well as helping others to lead to lead a life according to Gurbani. 'Aap Japai avra Naam Japaveh' Gurbani tells us to contemplate on Waheguru ourselves as well as help others to do the same.

If you do not consider yourself a sufficent Sikh that you cannot encourage and help a fellow Sikh live the Gursikh way then it is best to keep quiet otherwise you are just misleading that person. I did not reply to Jahan's post as I do not consider myself as sufficently a Gursikh that I can counsel him into Sikhi.

Telling someone who is looking for guidence to 'set your own path or join another religion' is not the way a Sikh should be giving advice to a fellow Sikh. I know Jahan Veer is an intelligent guy and he won't be misled by what you wrote. But what of all the young kids that might be similarly confused as Jahan? If they approached their parents intent on falloiwng your advice what would the parents feel when the kids tell them they were advised to do this by a forum called 'Sikh Awareness'!

Canadian Jatti i found you remark about your life not being centered around Guru Granth Sahib yet your focus is of God confusing. The Guru Granth Sahib is a way to approach Waheguru

Thats exactly my view too...oh guv jhaapi paa laie .... you tell them :hearme: ...after death- sikhi, islam, buddhism or any other relegion wont matter..because everything is united. I have read some cases of reincarnation where people were hindus in their previous lives and christian in this life...even suleman da ghost says it proper...after death there is such no thing dharma above bas everything is bas Ik OngkAR :D

In Semitic religions after death there is heaven and hell and no second chance (reincarnation) for those burning in hell for eternity. According to your wisdom all humanity regardless of religion does reincarnate, this is the essence of Sikh thought too. which for the Sikhs represents a whole scienctific truth. How can then any Sikh has the audacity to even suggest to another Sikh to turn away from Sikh path and follow any other? Is that not a biggest insult to the philosophy of Sikhism?

You may agree with Guv, but Its like feeding poisoned and polluted apple to a starving child because searching for nutritious organic and healthy one requires effort and hardship.

my view is that the path to akaal is through unconditional love, whether someone finds that through sikhi, islam, another religion or no religion.

i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue.

Guv, Are you saying that Sikhi is inadequate as a religion? Otherwise why would you suggest that a Sikh must turn to another religion? If that was the case what was the reason for its (Sikhi)inception, differenct philosophy. a way of life which contradicts Islam to a very large extent.

i just wanted to say jahan... each person's journey of discovery & relationship with akaal is completely individual. it goes beyond allying yourself with the terms 'sikhism'/'islam'... why be constrained within artificial constructs. forge your own path based on where your heart leads u.

Guv, It is clear from brother Jahan’s posts that he is somewhat confused about Sikhism, otherwise he would not be considering any other paths. He is confused about Sikhi, but his posts suggest very clearly that he has a yearning to learn about Sikhism. Rather than helping him to learn about the most fair, logical and a scientific truth, which is Sikhi, you are doing him no favours by suggesting that he must follow his heart, you are misleading and creating further confusion. My friend by suggesting to Jahan that it is OK to choose the path, you is doing him a disservice and injustice. Jahan brother needs to learn about Sikhism. As a Sikh (learner) Jahan must also educate himself in his religion which is Sikhi and about other paths too. Jahan brother needs support and mentoring and lot of contact with good genuine Sikhs who can be a strong support mechanism for him.

i just wanted to say jahan... each person's journey of discovery & relationship with akaal is completely individual. it goes beyond allying yourself with the terms 'sikhism'/'islam'... why be constrained within artificial constructs. forge your own path based on where your heart leads u.

Guv, you are misleading and confusing the issue here.

Jahan, forge your path which will liberate you, the path of Love, the path of truth, that is Sikhism!

Ps, I respect the opinion and views of 'Harmless' but i cant help to notice the bias against Muslims in all discussions we have had (See our discussion on Punjab's partition under my old ID - 'Punjabi Nationalist')

Jahan jee, you respect my views because there exists evidence of truth. As for bias against muslims, Oh please...... Am I suppose to call a spade a fork, would that please you or appease you? I don't condemn people, I condemn violence, intolerace, blind faith, and lies and unfortunately radical Islam happens to practice and represent all that.

Harmless Jee,

Havent all religious peoples committed these same sins? Wasnt it even worse what the European peoples did in the name of Christianity in places like Mexico/South America, the Middle East (Crusades) and even in their own continent?

Jahan jee, Both of these semitic religions have been spread through force. Which one is worse? Both religions are masters of conversion through terror and in the 21st century masters of psychological brain washing. Christianity however has reformed a great deal, Islam on the other hand has not.

can we legitimately say that hard core Islamic indoctrination has destroyed nature, violated human rights of millions to self exist, destroyed secularism and democracy?

Yep, Muslims have done this, but so have Christians and Hindus (Hindus to their own kind..). Jews have never had the strength in numbers but what do you think 'Gods chosen people' are capable of doing to 'non-believers' given their religious beliefs?

Muslims, Christians, Hindus and including Jews have done it. As for Hindus, one can argue that none of the scriptures prescribe violence for example th genocide of the Sikhs in 1984. After lot of thinking and debating with other like minded people, I have come to the conclusion,

YES! the the root to the Islamic terror is Islam but but as for the Hindus, it is their own complexes, since the slaves tasted their freedom in secular India, they have become intent on wiping eveyone else out in which case it the greed and ego that is the root of their intolerance and malevolence.

Is the genocide in Palestine racial or religious? Both perhaps?

Both

some moghals and some other muslims leaders weren't only bad to sikhs, they were cruel to other pious muslims generals too

Where did this badness originate from? What inspired the badness? Were they following Koran literally as in during those times, the Islamic apologists (or scholars) were not around, therefor eradicating Kafirs was OK to do.

Today as we speak, In Sudan Christians are being presucuted left right and centre, unless they convert to Islam ofcouse. Except Sufism, Ismalies and some other softer Islamic sects, can we legitimately say that hard core Islamic indoctrination has destroyed nature, violated human rights of millions to self exist, destroyed secularism and democracy? (as existed in pre- Islamic civilisations) .

Regards

H.

There is a muslim sect, known as the Nanakpanthis, they believe in the Guru Nanak Dev ji and they also meditate upon Guru ji's Banis. They were and are very peace loving people. They live and let live without imosing their Islamic beliefs or distorting histories to assert their point. That is a dirct effect of Nanakian phiolosophy. If only we all believed in Guru Nanak rather than claiming him to be mine or yours, there would be true peace on earth.

Regards

H.

If Muslims believe Guru Nanak to be Muslim, to what extent do they follow his teachings and his message?

Do they read Japji Sahib?

Do they believe in eqality that is giving women a higher status within the society?

Do they belive in reincarnation?

Do they believe in brotherhood of all man kind?

Do they practice love, compassion, tolerance of all others religions and cultures as Guru ji taught?

How do Muslims or various Multitude of Muslim sects incoporate the teaching of Guru Nanak Dev ji (Guru of the Universe) in their every day life?

Please answer Ammanwala

H.