Amarjeet Singh_1737

58 mins ?can you tell us what he says without us having to lose 1 hour of this life please?

Imagine all the people who actually listened to him. That would be entire lives gone.

His speech delivered at Ludhiana Akali conference predicted Sikh genocide of 1984 but Akali's failed to take note of his prediction and did not care to heed his advice.

Just wait until the Santaan Society on this forum get wind of this one.

1. You are wrong. Khalistan was coined by by Sikh leadership in 1940.

Perhaps i should have said re-coined and re-circulated by Indira Gandhi. However, the fact remains that the Anandpur Sahib Resolution, which was simply federalist in nature (and which would have strengthened India's Unity) was deliberately derailed by Indira Gandhi re-introducing the word Khalistan to whip up Hindutva votebank for herself and paint Sikhs as traitors+extremists in the process. Sikhs were a sovereign nation in 1849, so given the events of 1947 and the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs in which 20% of our Qaum was killed off in Pakistan it is understandable that some Sikhs mooted the re-establishment of an independent Sikh state.

2. I see a total denial of the massacres and selective killings committed by the Sikh terrorists post 1978. is this omission accidental or you have something to hide?

True Sikhs cannot be terrorists. Sikhi unequivocally condemns terrorism targetted against innocents.

Self-defence during the Genocide of lakhs of Sikhs cannot be termed terrorism.

However, my current vision is that Khalsa Raj should indeed be established all across India as a pre-cursor to Global "Just Rule" (Khalsa Raj) rather than simply a vision confined to a small area in India where Punjabi is spoken.

3. You need to get some Assembly seats to show Khalistan (or whatever name you would like to give to it) has some support in Punjab (all across India, are you really serious or completely delusioned?)

I agree with you that there is very limited political support for Khalistan in India in 2014. Khalsa Raj across all of India is not an Empire in the same sense of the Nehru-Gandhi terrorist Empire. It is a premise based upon just rule for all for the welfare of all. No matter how unlikely that may seem today i do wish to see just rule globally and across all of India as Sikhi's parameters do not stop at Punjab. Sikhi is a universal faith for the betterment of all humanity.

Nevertheless, if anti-Sikh policies continue against Sikhs and there is no justice within India or increased federalism I would support the democratic right of a population to achieve independence albeit if that area were limited to east Punjab state.

4. That's total misrepresentation of the ground reality - Sikhs enjoy complete freedom, privileges in India. Sikh majority state is THE MOST PROSPEROUS state in India. You cannot have such riches if you are being discriminated against. India must be the only country where there is no income tax on the farming sector and number of other state policies, subsidies favour sikh farmers. I have given my evidence that there is no discrimination now it is your turn to give solid facts to establish your anti-Sikh policies argument.

You are absolutely correct that in no way, shape or form can Sikhs be called slaves in India when they are richer on average than Hindu's, are leading the country as Prime Minister, as Head of the Indian Army, as economic planners and chief UN representatives. Nevertheless there is a layer of the Indian bureaucratic system and judiciary that does indeed discriminate against Sikhs. Sikh victims of state-sponsored Genocide against Sikhs still have not received justice, they allow drugs to freely circulate in Punjab in order to deliberately drug out the youth and there is deliberate discrimination in the fields of education, Punjabi language and the freedom of political prisoners. Furthermore, prices for agricultural produce are artificially determined at low prices by central government so that is also tantamount to discrimination against Sikhs. Given that the Delhi morally vacated the right to govern Sikh affairs in 1984, should ordinary Sikhs continue to suffer discrimination in the forms outlined it is inevitable that clamour for freedom from Delhi would increase. The best way you can be part of the solution is by joining the demand for full justice for Sikhs so that all communities can concentrate on mutual development rather than antagonism.

Having said that, an independent Punjab would be able to source coal other than from Bihar

5. Like what? from Indonesia or Australia by Dreamliners? Please elaborate.

Absolutely. There is not only one location that can provide coal. Aside from that Punjab has plentiful solar power possibilities and renewable energies are what would be best for the long term. The bottom line is that Punjabi's Sikh and Hindu are industrious enough to generate electricity in the even that they democratically choose to peacefully establish an independent free from Delhi's interference. A peaceful velvet divorce as achieved in Czechoslovakia would not hinder Punjab from continuing to get coal from Bihar and indeed other suuccessor independent states like Gujarat, Bijhar continue to get agricultural produce from Punjab.

and it would be able to get better prices for its agricultural produce as well.

6. From whom? the price of the APs would go up once water, diesal, fertilizers, power et al are more expensive. India can import lakhs of tonnes from canada, USA or Australia at much more competitive prices (hundreds of crores spent on subsidies to Punjab farmers if we are to consider them a separate unit would be saved).

Then why doesn't India do just that? Let Punjab's agricultural produce be sold globally to the highest bidder with the trade off that subsidies offered to all Indian farmers are not waived in Punjab. True that the price of AP would go up in an independent Punjab but taht would negate market demand for the same and a breadbasket type nation would hardly go begging.

Mutually beneficial riparian agreements would need to be worked out for the benefit of all.

7. Mutually beneficial? what benefits Himachal gets for giving water to Punjab? Himachal much more poorer than Punjab, why not profit from its most precious resource - water?

Mutually beneficial would be that Himachal could indeed charge for its water to a limited level as mandated per UN guidelines for water sharing but with Punjab thereafter free to charge Rajasthan subsequently for diverting water resources to them that it needs for itself.

But a new state would need armed forces to ensure its own safety from extrenal threats and to tackle drugs smuggling from Pakistan etc.

8. Punjab has its own police force, we are talking about lakhs of army and para military jawans. giving employment to such a massive army would alone send Punjab/Khalistan broke. where the revenue would come from? Only industrialists and businessmen (mostly Hindu) pay income and other taxes in Punjab which is not enough. with exodus of these industrialists from Punjab once Khalistan is announced, you would be left with a v small percentage of tax paying population.

Lakhs of army jawans is not a problem to accommodate. In fact the army discipline would help to build a nation up development wise even quicker. They could be deployed to counter inflow of Pakistani drugs, to counter drug dealers across Punjab, to enforce anti-infanticide laws, to make Punjab roads civilised, to deal with infrastructure issues, rebuild schools, ensure the death of social straification and so on ... any surplus forces can readily be offered to the UN for peacekeeping services (who would pay their wages to boot).

The Khalsa Panth will never go extinct no matter how much the RSS may wish for that. Even if 5 brave men from Gujarat, Orissa, South India, Hastinapur and present day Pakistan stood up in 1699 out of a Sangat of 50,000 the concept of the Khalsa Panth as a global force for ensuring justice, peace, equality and unity worldwide will never perish.

9. I hope so too but the signs are no good. Sikh youth cutting hair in increasing number. atheism increasing along with materialism. More Sikh youth also realising spirituality has got nothing to do with growing hair or shaving heads. Tat Khalsa fraud being exposed gradually. we are not living in 17th century, youth with unshorn also want to be part of the global village and looked down upon as a freak or a bigot living in medieval days. Khalsa panth as... c'mon my friend, get real. Khalsa panth failed to give justice even to fellow (non-confirmist) Sikhs and innocent Punjabi civilians who were butchered in 1978-1993 period. get over such egalitarian ideals even Akal Takht doesnt believe in.

Khalsa Panth won't vanish due to Sikh youth on drugs cutting their hair. In facts that cuts out the element from the Khalsa Panth who are not committed. When it comes to the Khalsa Panth as a small part of the wider Sikh community we simply need quality rather than quantity. When Panj Piare stood up as 5 from a Sangat of 50,000 that was enough to eternally establish the Khalsa Panth. You're correct that spirituality is not gained by merely keeping kes or shaving one's head. True Sant-Sipahi balance with the emphasis on seva whilst keeping Rehat will bless the Amritdhari and society far more than one changing hairstyle to keep up with western fashion trends. If the Khalsa Panth was unable to prevent the Genocide of lakhs of Sikhs by terrorist central government from Delhi in the 1980's and 1990's then all that tells me is that there needs to a be a greater population of the wider Sikh Panth out of which a greater number of truly commiitted Amritdhari's can arise. If the Mughals ruled India for a thousand years it doesn't spell to me that Islam is the correct way whilst Sikhi is wrong. Egalitarian ideals are at the heart of what Sikhi is about.

You are absolutely right that currently there is no democratic support of any consequence for Khalistan. However, Khalistan is not a Jat-centric idea.

11. Please name top 10 Khalistan leaders and let us see how many of them were non-Jats. How many Khali terrorists were non-jats - manochahl...who else?

Given that freedom from state sponsored Government of India was opposed by all sections of the Panth, your point is misleading. Those that advocate a Sikh state, whatever their faults, cannot ever be accused of being casteist. Each and every Khalsa Sikh sees themself as casteless. Those who retain affiliation to a caste are simply not Sikh. This is common knowledge in Punjab but not widely known in anti-Sikh circles ... that the percentage of Sikhs of a Jatt tribal background is just under 50%. So your assumption based on the fact that General Brar, KPS Gill, Sidhu of Dera Sirsa and Dhillon of the Radha Swami's are from one community and thus so must those who opposed the terrorist Government of India back then is totally wrong.

That is simply RSS propaganda. Most Jats are in fact Muslim and with Hindu Jats like Sajjan Kumar and his tribesmen from Haryana Jats very much anti-Sikh.

12. You are distracting here. We know the demographics but you may like to give some evidence for your latter assertion about the HJs, Thanks. and why bring in RSS everywhere? I that collective Panth khatre ch hai! paranoia?

RSS or anti-Sikh whatever you may like to call it. It's common knowledge that it was Hindu Jatts who were Bhajan Lal's main hound dogs and that Delhi Police in 1984 (as now) is heavily dominated by Hindu Jatts. It's amazing that 80% of Jatts are non-Sikh but the anti-Sikh opponents have nothing better to throw at the Qaum then it being a caste-centric Qaum. You may even be surprised to know that in Punjab the Jatts don't even have a monopoly upon farming any more.

Even in Punjab Jats are 30% or less of the population and everyone is well aware of which community General Brar, KPS Gill, Beant (CM) hail from. Support for the idea of Khalistan was a response to the terrorist Genocide of the Sikh population by Indira Gandhi and her son via their proxies.

13. Support, what support you are talking about?

I was referring to the historical support that existed at the height of the Genocide of Sikhs by the then Government of India

Switzlerland and Austria are also landlocked countries both far more prosperous, democratic and peaceful than other countries with a coastline.

14. Apples and oranges my friend. S&A are surrounded by co-religionist, developed countries who are part of the EU.

Not really. The criteria for the success of a landlocked nation first and foremost is good governance. If countries like Mongolia, Ethiopia, Bhutan and almost 50 countries (many of whom have smaller populations that Punjab) can survive then so could an independent Punjab.

After democratic elections in 1997 support for Khalistan waned considerably as a consequence and even more so after Manmohan Singh became Prime Minister of India in 2004.

15. Khalistan movement was defeated convincingly and terror acts came down considerably by 1993. 1997 as you can see came much later and MMS...well, 11 years later.

The desire for an end to terrorist central Government of India rule was suppressed by the Genocide of an entire generation of Sikhs. The government's Black Cats did indeed slow down their terror acts by the mid 1990's but please note that terror acts against innocent civilians cannot be committed by Sikhi is Sikhi is 100% against terrorism. Those that commit wanton terror targetting civilians cannot be classified as Sikh.

The Khalistan movement was not a Jat movement full stop.

16. Khali movement was a Jat dominated.

Only the RSS push that lie. Hardly so just because all the Congress MP's at the time were mainly Jatt as was KPS Gill and most of the higher echelons of the murdering Punjab Police back then it does not automatically automatically translate that thus those who opposed the state terrorists must all have been Jatt as well. It was an organic response by all sections of the Panth to persecution, terrorism and state sponsored Genocide against the Sikhs in the years primarily between 1984-1995. As terrorism against Sikhs diminished so did the desire within the Sikh Panth increase to resolve matters via dialogue .

17. Again RSS! why bring on those nikardhari idiots in this debate whenever a Sikh related issue is being debated?

Anti-Sikh or Hindutva or RSS or Arya Samaj ... there agenda against the Panth is one and the same - to denigrate it.

I remember when the news Indra was killed went out. The Jatts danced non-stop, when they found out it was a scheduled caste who did it they stopped. The moral of the story is the movement wasn't entirely dominated by Jatts. Gurbachan Singh Manochal was a low caste, and many others.

In this great katha of Swami Brahm Dev Udasi he mentions what school of thought is Gurmat. When hindus asked a Udasi Sadhu what school is Gurmat is it Advait,Dvait,Shuddadvaita. The Udasi Sadhu over 100 year ago proved it is 'Bhagti Gyan Samucha" School.

Have a listen to the katha also Swami Ji mentions a Udasi Sadhu over a 100 years ago who wrote a granth showing the superiority of Gurmat against the six schoools of hinduism and showing that Guru Nanak Sahib's Gurmat is Superior to all schools. MUST LISTEN.

start at 25 min 9 sec

Nice.

As long as I have tried to reconcile... its ok. The rest is up to God. I have submitted before Him. Your little snide comments only create contempt and create more Krodh. I dont need more than that in my life, I have enough as it is. This is a forum I came to hoping it would fix me as it is Sangat. I come here without research and with humility and the awareness that I will be erroneous and thus corrected. This is supposed to break my hankaar. All your doing is inciting me to become more egoistic and resentful.

Better check yourself in the mirror son before leaping into burning flames.

Oh wow. I didnt know. Im sorry. Wow, feel like shit now.

Better feel like shit son, research before peeking into the abyss.

Sat Sri Akal Everyone,

Lately on this forum I have been involved in some seriously heated debates with other members. I dont want to argue with anyone. I am sorry if I have offended anyone. Lets not forget that were all brothers and sisters. We debate amongst ourselves, but if someone from outside comes, were one. Or at least I hope so... So to get everyone in a good mood again, I want everyone to post a link of their favourite Vaaran and talk about them. Ill start off with this one:

Always makes me happy. Love this Vaar. Hope everyone enjoys

If this is a reconciliation effort, like you insist, then it does seem to be falling quite short of it's mark.

That's not all, almost everyday we hear of Muslims claiming some celebrity becoming a Muslim. They even claim Jesus was Muslim!

Even you are a MUSLIM!!! Just jokes.

That Neil Armstrong story is still making rounds. Not too long ago I was debating a Muslim who told me that Neil Armstrong converted to Islam after he heard the Azaan in space lol and later moved to Palestine.

Aazan in space? Mind you though they consider the earth to be flat, so for them anything is possible.

Come to think about it, if it wasn't for this thread I would still have been thinking Hans Raj Hans was some Islamic exponent.

Bhai Kahn SIngh Nabha wrote a commentary on Hanuman Natak called Natak Bhavarth Dipika (1888).

Is it available online?

nah brother. We only have Guru Jees to thank for waking us up. If it wasn't for the Gurus, we would have been Muslims today(Agar na hote Guru Gobind Singh, toh Sunnat hoti Sabh kee). Look at the other people who are related to the Sakas i.e. Persians, Pasthuns, they were all converted to Islam by force. So Saka has nothing to do with our liberation from Islamic rule. It is only because our ancestors became Sikhs that we got the courage to fight and even beat the invaders from the North West. Just look at when our people were Hindu Punjabis, they lived a humiliating existence under islamic rule.

Damn right!!!!

There was nothing new in this "revelation" even 1400 years ago.

The works of Amos, and other pre-Islamic individuals were used and explained away as divine miracles.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qOF43IhHWnI&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DqOF43IhHWnI

Think it real or fake?

Probably flying simians. Then a certain percent of the population will worship them.

Does anyone have a quote from gurmat where the guru or guru's sikh from purataan times used the term Kaum? sikh Kaum/Qaum?

There might be. You will probably have to look at the works devised in the Anandpur court by the Kavis.

So why not keep the kesh and bana, keep the banis take amrit and become a real sikh?

There are also others like Bhagat Pooran Singh. It is worthwhile to study the psyche of these converts and garner any spiritual, or historic teachings from them.

Here is another one I got from Miss. Jasbir Kaur Ahuja. It mentions a few interesting events and plausibilities.

The ascetic order of the Udasis’s was founded by Baba Sri Chand, the elder of the two sons of the Jagat-guru, Guru Nanak Devji. Recognising his other-worldly nature, Guru Nanak blessed him and helped him in the development of his personality as per his inborn tendencies, for according to legend, he had been born with natural flesh ‘Mundra’ in his right ear, and Jatas on his head - indications of Tapasya and Tyag. Guru Nanak while leaving for his first Udasi entrusted Baba Sri Chand to his sister Bibi Nanaki and said, “Look sister, I tell you the secret of my heart. This child has the divine spark, and he has come on this earth because of our love. He has a distinct personality. His ‘religious sect’ will be popular all over the world. And then Guru Nanak Devji initiated Baba Sri Chand, a child of seven with the mystic symbol ‘Satnam’ and advised him to do ‘Jap’.

When Baba Sri Chand was about twenty-four years old, Guru Nanak Dev advised him to study the ancient religions texts which would help him in understanding the Gurubani hymns. Baba Sri Chand obeyed his father’s command and went to Kashmir to study the ancient texts under the guidance of Pandit Purushottam Das.

Baba Sri Chand lived to be a centenarian right up to the time of sixth Guru, Guru Hargobind.

When Babaji asked Guru Amar Das to give him his son, Mohan, his words were duly honoured. Baba Sri Chand initiated Baba Mohan in the Jap of ‘Ek Onkar Satnam’. Before leaving this physical body, Baba Sri Chand bestowed his Gadi, or succession, upon Baba Gurdita, a householder and son of the sixth Guru Hargobind, thereby conceding that Asceticism can be practised without renunciation.

But the Udasis are usually celibate. Some wear ochre or Bhagwa robes, others go naked except for a loin cloth and rub ashes on their body. They congregate in monastries/deras. Baba Gurdita had four disciples who established four dhunis. They are (1) Balu Hasna, (2) Phul Sahib, or Mian Sahib, (3) Almast, and (4) Bhagat Bhagwan. They constitute the ‘Bara Akhara’ or senior assembly. There is also a “Bakshis Sangat" which was founded by Bhai Pheru supposedly with the permission of Guru Gobind Singh. They have established another chapter called, the Chhota Akhara’. They all pay special reverence to Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

Udasis proved a helpful adjunct to the Sikhs.

Being ascetic and unbaptised, they escaped persecution at the hands of the Mughal authorities, and when Sikhs were hunted down in tyrannical genocide, and many had withdrawn into deep forest to reorganise for gurrilla war, the Udasis kept the torch burning as custodians of their Gurdwaras and kept the spirit of Sikhism alive. The Nirmala Sadhus also helped the Sikhs in their missionary activities in the Malwa region. The Order of the Nirmalashad been created by Guru Gobind Singh ji.

According to Max A. Macauliffe : “There are two great division of Sikhs, Sahijdhari and Singhs. The latter are they who accept the baptism inaugurated by Guru Gobind Singh. The Singhs after the time of Guru Gobind Singh were all warriors. TheSahijdhari are those who lived at ease and practised trade and agriculture. In the Singhs are included the ‘Nirmalas’ and ‘Nihangs’. The Sahijdharis include ‘Udasis’ founded by Sri Chand, son of Guru Nanak, Sewapanthis founded by the water carrier of Guru Gobind Singh, the Ramraiyas, the followers of Ram Rai, son of Guru Har Rai... He further says, “The first schism of the Sikhs began immediately after the demise of Guru Nanak. Some of his followers adopted Sri Chand, his elder son, as his successor. The followers of Sri Chand were termed Udasis, or the solitary: and they now constitute a large body of devout and earnest men. Anandghan, one of their number, has in recent times written the life of Guru Nanak. It contains an apotheosis of Sri Chand, and states that he was an incarnation of God and the only successor of Guru Nanak. In the biography of Baba Sri Chand, K.M. Munshi writes that at the birth of Sri Chand, the astrologers predicted his great future and the wise believed that Bhagwan Shankar had appeared.

Guru Nanak was the father as well as Guru of Baba Sri Chand. The latter has composed ‘Arati’ in the praise of Guru Nanak Devji addressing him as the ‘Lord of Lords.’

Udasis are also known at Nanakputras: the principal religious order of the Sikhs. As per Ibbetson and Maclagen, Nanakputra (1) a synonym for Udasi, (2) a descendant of Nanak. This is the literal meaning of the term. The Nanakputras were employed in the later Sikh period as escorts of caravans and their sacred character as descendants of Guru Nanak, ensuring their security from attack’

The Udasis are celibate - at least in theory, and when so in practice are called Udasi, ‘nanga’, or naked. But Maclagen gives, a different explanation of this term: “The Udasis are recruited from all castes and will eat food from any Hindu. They are almost always celibate and are sometimes though not usually congregate in monasteries. They are generally found wandering to and from their sacred places, such as Amritsar, Dera Baba Nanak, Kartarpur and the like. They are said to be numerous in Malwa and Benaras. In our Census Return, they appear strongest in Jullundur, Rohtak and Ferozepur. It is a mistake to say that they are not generally recognised as Sikhs, they pay special reverence to the Adi Granth, but also respect the Granth of Gobind Singh and attend the same shrines as the Sikhs generally....

“Udasis may be regarded as the genuine disciples of Nanak, professing as the name denotes indifference to worldly vicissitudes. They are purely religious characters devoting themselves to prayer and meditation, usually collected in Sangats, colleges or convents. Though usually practising celibacy, it does not appear to be a necessary condition amongst the Sikhs to be found in Gangetic provinces. Many of the Udasis are well read in Sanskrit and are expounders of Vedanta philosophy....”

“A hymn (extract) from their service prayer solemnized at the Sikh Sangat at Benaras indicate the importance of ‘Name’ e.g. “Meditate on the Sahib of the Book (Sri Guru Granth Sahib) and exclaim Wah-Guru". The people accordingly repeat : “Wah-Guru, Wah-Guru ki Fateh.”

The priest : Meditating on Sri Chandra exclaim Wah-Guru.

The people : Wah-Guru, Wah-Guru ki Fateh.

Love and fix thy whole heart upon Him
The world is bound to thee by prosperity
No one is another’s
Whilst prosperity endures many will come;
And sit with thee and surround thee;
But in adversely they will fly,
And not one will be near thee."

These lines indicate Guru Nanak’s philosophy of repeating the Name of the Lord and remaining indifferent to the attractions of the world, i.e. to maintain Udasis in the heart.

Guru Nanak is believed to have had communion with the Supreme Lord when he disappeared in “Vaini Nadi" at Sultanpur. After three days when he reappeared, he declared God gave him the commandment to preach His Name. Guru Nanak had humbly responded : It may not be within my power to do so. But the Supreme Lord said, “I will be thy Guru (teacher), and thou shall be the Guru to all mankind. Thy way shall be great in the world, and thy world Puri Puri, the word of the Bairagi is Ram! Ram! that of the Sanyasi, Om, Nama Narayan, and the word of the Yogis Ades! Ades ! and salutations of the Mohammedans is Salam Alikam! and that of the Hindus Ram! Ram!, but the word of thy sect shall be Guru. Whatever I am, thou art, for between us there is no difference. It is a blessing, that thou art sent into Kali-Yug. After this, ‘Wah-Guru’ or ‘Well done, teacher! I was pronounced from the most High Guru or teacher (God) and Nanak came to give light and freedom to the universe.”

The followers of Guru Nanak are known as Guru-Sikhs or Nanak Panthis. Panth is a Sanskrit word which means path. It literally means devotees/disciples of Nanak. Rev. Swami Prabhananda Ji Maharaj, Assistant Secretary of the Rama Krishna Math and Mission, Belur Math, Howrah, has written an exhaustive and beautiful article on “Sri Ramakrishna’s Interaction with Sikhism,” which appeared in Prabuddha Bharata (Magazine of R.K. Mission) in January, 1991. There he has quoted numerous incidents of the Nanak Shahis’ and Nanak Panthis’ meeting with Sri Ramakrishna.

G.B. Singh has similarly analysed the political and social situation in the Bengal in his article, “Sikh Relics in Eastern Bengal. So far removed is East Bengal from the centre of activity of Sikhism that it may sound rather strange to mention it in connection with that religion. And yet there was a time when Sikhism was quietly and steadily making a headway here. There flourished quite a network of prosperous Sikh Sangats and monasteries all over the province from Rajmahal in the West to Sylhet in the East and from Dhubri in the North to Fatikcherri and Bansthali in the South; there was hardly a place of importance during the days of Mughal viceroy where some Sikh temple did not exist or some Sikh ascetic had not established himself and gathered a number of followers around him....” Encouragement from government officials, along with the Bairagi Sangats and Mohammadan shrines, Sikhism was then in its vigour and it would have been a wonder indeed if it had remained unrepresented. These Sangats were not only the places of worship but as usual served the useful purpose of wayside inns where food and shelter was given free to the indigent wayfairer...... Dacca was the Hazur Sangat, or the provincial head Sangat, with a number of others under it and, in turn, was controlled by the pontifical throne at Anandpur in Guru Gobind Singh’s time and later was attached to the archbishopric of Patna..... (Because of the shortage of space, more details cannot be given here).

After having a bird’s eye-view of the Nanak Panthis in Bengal, let’s have a close look at one particular event which calls for serious attention of the scholars and seekers of the Truth. Swami Prabhananda, quoting S. Kapur Singh’s Introduction to Vol. II of Dr. Gopal Singh’s English translation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib has written that ‘a Sikhs ascetic Udasi Totapuri imparted to Sri Ramakrishna the Sikh esoteric instruction efficacious for removing impediments on the spiritual path." But Rev. Swamiji has not endorsed this idea and commented, “For want of supportive evidence, however, this claim cannot be much entertained. The philosophy of Udasi ascetics being the same monistic Vedanta as that of the Dasnamis might have given rise to this confusion"

But in the same paragraph at page no. 2, S. Kapur Singh continues “... and that is why the most illustrious Chela of the Paramhansa, Swami Vivekananda so often uttered and introduced into his writings the Sikh mystic formula, Vaheguru" (And in the next few lines, S. Kapur Singh, quoting from Pothi Punjab Sakhian (Khalsa College Library, Amritsar, 1780 Circa) also refers to the impact of Sikhism on Ramdas Samarth, the spiritual guide of Shivaji, when he met the Sikh Guru Har Gobind in Kashmir in 1634. In the same manner, Swami Vrihanand, the founder of Arya Samaj was influenced by the Sikh philosophy of the Name, which is the true essence of Veda....."

No wonder that Dr. Gopal Singh in his religion of the Sikhs (page 56) says, “According to the Gurus, the doctrine of the Name is the essence of the Vedas, Puranas, Smritis, Sastras. Udasi Totapuri, a Sikh ascetic, imparted the same instruction to the most well known Hindu savant of modern times, Ramakrishna Paramhansa, in the final phase of the latter’s spiritual quest....” One must die and merge in the Word (Which is synonymous with the Name) that one purgeth oneself of all the inner soil... (Ramkali, M.3).

Now referring to Sri Totapuriji, Swami Saradanand, a direct disciple of Sri Ramakrishna writes, “Totapuri was born at some place in or near the Punjab. The monastery of his spiritual teacher was at a place near Kurukshetra. His teacher was also a famous Yogi and a monastery was established there. It is not clearly known whether that monastery was founded by him or any of his predecessors....”

Referring to Sri Totapuri, Satish K. Kapoor in his article, which appeared in The Tribune on August 14, 1988, (pp. IV and V) writes, “The Naga Monk (Sri Totapuri) lies buried in his dera at Ladana.” Prior to this, he says, “Ladana is not to be confused with Ludhiana, as do some biographers of Sri Ramakrishna. Ladana is now in Haryana and can be reached from Kurukshetra in about two hours.” But I think, Ludhiana (district) too would take about two hours time from Kurukshetra.

Referring to this article, Mewa Singh from Sundernagar (Himachal Pradesh) writes in his letter which also appeared in The Tribune under the heading Totapuri :

Shri Satish K. Kapoor says that there is no record of Totapuri’s original abode except to the effect that he was born somewhere in Punjab.

According to some of the followers of Totapuri who live in Jogimajra and Rampur villages in Ludhiana district, the monk was born at Jogimajra village where his Samadhi is still in existence. Thousands of devotees all over the country visit the Samadhievery year and participate in functions which are organised to remember the saint.

Gaju Bhagat, an ardent follower of the saint, lives in Rampur village, and makes genuine effort to keep Totapuri’s mission alive. In this context, laudable efforts have been made by S. Maghar Singh, Principal, Govt. Secondary School, Kangalwal, Dist. Sangrur and his cousin, Karnail Singh but no substantial results have come out so far.

So Sri Totapuri has been called an Udasi ascetic and with equal claim declared as follower of the Sankara School of thought. The following questions arise :

Who was this Sri Totapuri? Where did he come from? What is his lineage with the Puri cult? Would any scholars interested in the subject explore and trace out the truth?

So far as the Puri lineage is concerned, Ghurye comes to our help. “Totapuri was the spiritual preceptor of Ramakrishna Paramhansa. And Ramakrishna who was Paramhansa was never known as a Puri. But he was the spiritual preceptor of Vivekananda. Vivekananda was thus a Puri. But hardly ever has this ascetic surname been used in his case. The alignment of Bengal ascetics with Puri Order appears to have been as old as asceticism in Bengal.

1994 is being celebrated the Birth Quincentenary year of Baba Sri Chand, the pioneer of the Udasi cult. We suggest all seekers of truth are invited on this auspicious occasion to contribute their mite to discover the truth about this Udasi ascetic Sri Totapuri.

I am grateful to Dr. Himadri Banerjee of the Department of History, Rabindra Bharati University, Calcutta, who has very kindly offered to help in the wider interest of historical research. He has long been working on how Sikhism and the Sikhs have been depicted in Assamese, Bengali, Hindi and Oriya languages over the last 125 years. He writes in his letter dated 12 June, 1994, “I have gathered that the Udasis were active in the Gangetic belt even in the eighteenth century. They had already set up theirakharas/dhunis in Barh, Monghyr, Bhagalpur, Rajmahal, Nalhati, Chittagong and Cuttack. Many of these Akharas have, however, been converted into Hindu temples and some of them have been taken over by the Sikhs. At Kaliaboda, Cuttack, it is believed that the present Sikh Gurdwara was originally a place of the Udasis. I have got from different sources that in Eastern India, Sikhism was first propagated by the Udasis/Nanak Panthis. They had their schools and places of worship. But their role is very little known to common people. It requires investigations. Further, he mentions that Captain Bhag Singh (founder Editor, The Sikh Review) once told him that Sri Totapuri had initiated Sri Ramakrishna.

In conclusion, I quote extracts from letters in the praise of the Udasis, which appeared in the introduction of Ishar Singh Nara’s Punjabi book :

Letter dated 24.12.1972, Dr. Kala Singh Bedi from Delhi University writes : “It is true that Baba Sri Chand was a religious leader and founder of Udasi sect, but really he was the sincere follower of Guru Nanak Bani.....”

S. Kapoor Singh in his letter dated 12th March, 1959, says that Udasi Samparday is an ‘advance Battalion of the Sikhs."

It seems that invaluable work has been done by the Udasis, but very little has come to be celebrated, and still less people know about it. It needs the serious attention of researchers to unearth the services of Udasis, because they preached the Holy Message of Guru Nanak as followers of Baba Sri Chand.

So why not keep the kesh and bana, keep the banis take amrit and become a real sikh?

As far as I am aware Swami Ram Tirath Singh did take amrit, there is a bit of moot over whether some of the Kavis did or not. As for Nitya Nand. Ji I am looking into him. There is an evidential connection between him and the Nirmalas who reside at Rishikesh. Maybe he did? Who knows, because the excerpt I posted was taken from Bhai Raghbir Singh Bir's 'Celestial Joys of Simran.' Nitya Nand contributed only a short summary about himself and why he rejected all other texts. Of course the firebrand Sanataan brigade can contribute a few "refutations" against his experience, but that's expected. Especially since it's members have to run around using universality as a façade to instigate imbecilic parleys and spearhead a campaign of subtle osmosis.

Individuals who were often influenced by the Udasis chose to straddle the gap between two boats by confirming to dual doctrines. On one hand they were practising Udasis, whereas on the other they also confirmed to the doctrines of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. A significant paradox but one, it seems, which they successfully pulled off. Baba Gurditta is a significant example, along with Baba Dharam Chand Ji.

why so much self doubt, so much of insecurity?

if you think your faith is complete, why do you need certificates from this Tirath and that Nand?

Last time I checked I particularly did not invite the head of the Idiot's Guild of Certification to carry out any investigation on this post.

I think its more when people start looking at your caste, community etc for stratification that the problem arises.

None the less Jwala Singh, Dr. Gurinder Singh Maan and Akali-Nihung Kamalroop Singh possess the only blogs which do extensive seva of Sikhi in such a literal and historical context. Most people have added tisarpanth to the list, although over time it too has earned it's foes. Yet it still rolls on.

" After having studied the scriptures, in many respects I have discarded the Vedas, Shastras, Smiritis, all Sutras, Tantras and Puranas, knowing them to be polluted and corrupted by many impurities. I have found that only the Holy Guru Granth Sahib is completely free of contamination and knowing it to be benevolent for the whole humanity, I have accepted this scripture and I accept myself to be the Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev, therefore I am a Sikh of the Guru."

-Swami Ram Tirath Singh.

"Just as the Guru Granth Sahib abated the social injustice, perpetuated against low castes through religious creeds, same way it raised voice in favor of basic rights of the womankind. Here the husband is not said to be the God and the woman the slave or purchased sheep or goat, but (she) has been accepted an equal partner in all (socio-familial) matters. Lopsided dicta of Hindu simirties that vilified women and compelled them to live like captives, was implicitly contravened through Gurus’ Words.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji saying that when the whole mankind takes birth from the woman and there is need for woman to perpetuate the life cycle asked, then why the woman is vilified?

In the Adi Granth there is no credo regarding barbaric worship neither any importance for ritual feast (to holy quakes) or sacrifices. Similarly no regard is accorded to Vaishnava or goddess worship because in the puranas it is said that they both (Hindu Goddess and Vishnu, one of Hindu god trinity) relish barbarous intakes i.e. meat, alcohol, marijuana, hemp, tobacco, hashish, cannabis etc.

In the end I want to mention Guru Granth Sahib’s supremacy from the standpoint that this preeminent Granth does not profess any demigod or goddess to be the real God just as the (Hindu) puranas have done. Each purana’s author has made a God out of his conceptual demigod."

-Swami Ram Tirath Singh.

'I was born in the state of Bengal. A yogi used to visit our town occasionally. His name was Swami Brahma Nand Ji. He led the life of a mystic. He possessed the power of materializing whatever he promised through his word.

I am now one hundred and thirty four years old. There are very few yogis of his (Brahma Nand's) calibre in India. My father had immense faith in Swami Ji. One day he arrived at our door and started shouting loudly, asking for the return of what belonged to him. He had come very rarely in this part of the town, prior to this visit. The whole family felt astonished at his sudden arrival. His words were more astonishing than his arrival. My father failed to guess his demand, despite his best effort to know his Guru's mind.

The Swami repeated his demand twice again. Kneeling on his knees, my father beseeched Swami Ji to disclose his demand. Swami Ji entered our house, and placing his hand on my shoulder, demanded that I did not deserve to stay at home. I must be handed over to him! Although we were four brothers, it was not easy for any parent to part with their son. It was not easy to refuse Swami Ji's demand either. Every member of the family looked at each other dumbfounded.

Swami Ji repeated his demand and left for his hermitage. My parents paid a visit to Swami Ji's place in the evening. What transpired between him and my parents was not conveyed to me. But the next morning, I was handed over to Swami Ji. After staying in our town for six months, Swami Ji left that place taking me along with him.

He was an erudite scholar of Sanskrit and possessed powers of materializing and providing things with his words. He instructed me in all yogic asnas and imaprted all kinds of knowledge associated with these asnas. He made every opportunity available to me to interact with and receive knowledge from many other yogis.We reached Punjab after pilgrimage through the states of Madras, Bihar, orissa, Bombay and the cities of Kanpur, Agra and Prayagraj at Allahbad. Here we came across a saint of the Udasi sect.

We kept on interacting and exchanging views with this saintly person. His name was Swami Satyanand. He narrated the Sikh philosophy and Sikh tradition in such an impressive manner that Swami Brahma Nand was mesmerized. After a visit to Darbar Sahib Harmandir, he became a permanent devotee of the Sikh Gurus and their ideology. After spending some time in Punjab, we returned to Haridwar.

One day Swami Brahma Nand was sitting calm and quiet. Suddenly he started sobbing. I asked him the reason for his tears. He answered that he had wasted his life in meaningless activities of yogic asnas whereas the essence of divinity lay in the Sikh Guru's philosophy and the Sikh way of life. He would have to be born once again in a Sikh family for deliverance. With these words, he shed his mortal frame.

Now, I, his disciple also meditate on the sacred name of Waheguru. I practised yogic asnas under the guidance of accomplished yogis for many years at a stretch. The amount of peace and bliss that I have experienced through Naam Simran, I have never experienced earlier through any other practise.

Guru's path of Naam Simran, is the perfect path. It is difficult to express the greatness of the Guru's word. Teachings of Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh are the elixir of life. There is no other scripture more beneficial than Gurbani or Guru Granth Sahib.

It is my bounden duty to spread this message of my Guru which he gave me in my last moments. It is a fact that whatever can be achieved through the effortless spontaneous practice of Naam Simran cannot be achieved through the strenuous exercises of other practises. It is my felt-experience and an experience about which there is no controversy.'

-Swami Nitya Nand.

Neel Garhi (Rishikesh).

This one I got from 'History of Sikh Gurus Retold.'

The 'Nirmala' school at first was heavily constrained to Khalsa dominated spheres of the sub-continental landscape. Despite their universal educationality in different spiritual academics they were not heavy proselytizers in the early days of the Sikh empire. It was only after the failure of Abdali's Indian campaigns, and the subsequent peace which followed which saw them start an extensive movement to spread the Khalsa ethos in amongst the diverse, and often contradictory, Hindu tradition. They traveled to many pilgrimage sites such as Haridwar to debate with and present their unique ethos. Given special patronage by the Khalsa chiefs they were heavily protected and emboldened to refute and debate with their erstwhile critics, as such their liberating of the lower-castes and patronage soon earned them the wrath of many a Hindu sect.

The 'Sanyasis' and the 'Vairaagis', two erstwhile sects of the Hindu faith, soon gave vent to their long-held bitterness against the 'Nirmalas.' Since time immemorial, and with the rise of the Maratha entity, they had been receiving extensive amounts of wealth and gifts which had emboldened them in their nefarious activities. The 'Nirmalas' were an antithesis to this status quo and as such earned their wrath. Subsequently this perspective, adopted by anti-'Nirmala' forces, soon lead to massive arguments and attacks on both parties.

In 1796 A.D. a conjoint venture between both 'Nirmalas' and 'Udasis' had resulted in members of both orders creating a delegation, which pitched base at the Kumbh festival at Haridwar. The delegation had commenced a perpetual recitation of the sacred Sikh canon, the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Both the Maratha and the British administration had given the 'Naga' sect of Hindu recluses charge over the festival, subsequently the 'Nagas' demanded a fee of eight Annas to One rupee for the entry of every Hindu participant and devotee. The 'Nirmalas' refused to pay this fee as per the dictum, that the Khalsa is the third way and unique from predecessor panths. Hinduism included. This combined with 'Naga' greed catalyzed in the latter burning the delegation's flag and forcing them to stop the recitation of Guru Granth Sahib. The 'Nagas' did not realize at the time that their act would be answered with lightning swiftness. They indulged in even more brutality by murdering a select number of 'Udasis.'

Report of this fanatical violence soon reached the courts of Rai Singh of Buria, Karam Singh of Shahbad, Dasundha Singh of Sadhora, Baghel Singh of Malaud, Jodh Singh of Kalsia and Rup Singhof Ropar. All these cheifs soon rushed to Haridwar and cremated the murdered Udasis. They then commenced to avenge this affront. After the festival ended and the 'Nagas' were accounting their gains they attacked them and with a brutal alacrity slaughtered anyone who tried saving them. This intensified bloodbath soon earned them a fearsome reputation and as a result the 'Nirmalas' and'Udasis' were subsequently left well alone. The second incident sparked off in 1807 A.D.

This time it due to differing religious perspectives. The 'Nirmala' mission had impacted the Hindu psyche on such a broad spectrum, that they were granted entry into any Hindu shrine without any caste or creed prejudice. On one such occasion the Brahminical elite created a controversy over the 'Nirmala' access to the 'Kushvrat Sarovar' near Nasik in Maharashtra. They did not accept the 'Nirmala' emphasis on anti-casteism, and their traditional custom consisting of a white turban and garments with flowing beards. Since time immemorial the said location had been a Brahminical head quarter and placed a strict emphasis on bare-headedness and non-stitched clothes. A heated argument broke out between both sides until ultimately the Brahmins admitted the futility of their religious logic in front of the Khalsa's universal spirituality. It was after this event that the 'Nirmalas' made it a point of interest to attend each and every Hindu pilgrimage site and festival.

Probably some attention seeking scam. Wouldn't be surprised if the politicians are behind it themselves to boost their own popularity at an urban level.