Jonny101

...fictionalized the tragic episode in his The Satanic Verses (1988). We in India have similar groups of fanatics committed to violence. It is not a mere coincidence that leaders of these cults are men or women with diseased minds but mesmeric powers of speech. In the early 1980s, in Punjab, we had Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale who ordered cold-blooded executions of his detractors. He and his militant followers were holed up in the Golden Temple at Amritsar. In early June 1984, the Indian Army entered this temple to evict the militants, and in the ensuing battle, brought about the destruction of the sacred Akal Takht. (Chapter 1.) Bhindranwale himself was killed. In the 1980s, thousands of lives were lost in Punjab, Haryana and Delhi.

SINGH, KHUSHWANT; Chopra, Ashok (2011-10-01). Agnostic Khushwant: There Is No God (Kindle Locations 1134-1140). Hay House. Kindle Edition.

Since 1947 Sikhs have been discriminated by the Hindus. Sikhs carried out morcha after morcha for Punjab's rights. This resulted in tens of thousands of Sikhs going to jails, Punjab breaking up into 3 more states. Then in 1978, 13 Sikhs were massacred by the Narakdharis. When the Indian "justice" system again failed to provide justice, Sikhs began to take measures to protect their community. Sikhs were totally helpless in their own state. Sikh grievances then manifested themselves in the form of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale.

Hundreds of Sikhs had been killed by the Nirankaris, Hindu terrorists and GOI even before operation bluestar between 1978-1980. But Guru Jee blessed the Sikh nation by giving us such a great leader at the time. Sant Jee led a peaceful movement called the Dharm Yudh Morcha where again peaceful Sikhs were courting arrest in the tens of thousands. All the Sikh Panth was fully united behind Sant Jee's Dharm Yudh Morcha. Being misled by their Arya Samaj leaders, Hindus all over Punjab began demanding the attack on Darbar Sahib to teach Sikhs a lesson for daring to dream of equal rights between Sikhs and Hindus. Indira Gandhi knew elections are not far away, so she did exactly what Hindu voters wanted and she attacked Darbar Sahib in which the Indian army slaughters thousands of Sikhs, destroyed the Akal Takh, hundreds of bullets were pumped into Darbar Sahib. Even women and children were not spared. Hindu celebrated this attack by dancing with joy and distributing sweets all over Punjab.

I suspect Sher and Ekomkar are the same person

me too. They both post at the same time. Not surprisingly, yesterday there was little or no activity from both of them. Seems like a Vellah person with too much time on his hand making multiple IDs

Ekomkar is now been put on quality control to ensure quality of this forum.

excellent decision by the Admin. If he has something valid to add to a discussion it's one thing, but all he's doing is trolling with his one liner non sense replies.

The more you write and show your lack of knowledge the more I laugh. What bad karmas you have have done in your previously life times that God made a moorakh like you. I feel sorry for your parents

The Arya Samaj just temporarily prevented the eventual absorption of Punjabi Hindus into Sikhism. But now that Arya Samaj's evil influence is lessening on the Punjabi Hindus, the process of your people adopting Sikhi has again begun. In Punjab your people will become Sikhs, in other states and territories like Delhi, Punjabi Hindus are being absorbed into the Bhaya culture and turning into Bhayas. So the Punjabi Hindu is like endangered species. We are seeing the last of them in our generation. I'm thinking of taking a few pictures of you guys so I can show my kids and grand kids because in future PH will be extinct like the dodo bird.

When a person has no valid points to make they only do one liners like this guy ekum.

His people are dying a slow death where they are being extinct due to low fertility rate and being gradually absorbed into Sikhism. In Punjab whether they vote for congress or bjp(Akali allies) either way it is Sikhs who rule over them. In PPP the 3rd alternative is Sikh dominated party. So religiously, politically, linguistically Punjabi Hindus are going to be finished soon.

In Delhi too, they are becoming increasingly insignificant because of Bhaya and Haryanvi migration there. Delhi police and all government jobs are all dominated by Haryanvis.

Radhaswamis started by swami shiv Sayal worship the swami of Radhas swami lord krishna!

Noormahalis aka Divya Jyotis worship using the Vedas ramayan and if you youtube just these two groups YOU WILL SEE A HEAVY TURBANED PRESENCE!

Sikhi is dying in Punjab and through DERAS and modernisation SIKHS ARE BECOMING DERA MEMBERS, Hindus and Christians

ENJOY THE DERA SATSANGS!

Ps it's sikhs celebrating HINDU festivals like Rakhri Lohri AND DUSSEHRA IN DROVES!

Even doing HINDU poojas see Manmohan singh pm NAVJOT SIDHU POLITICIAN ON LINE!

Hindus don't do sikh festivals unlike you we got our own!

BUT ITS OK CARRY ON STEALING FROM US

Man, you are one ignorant fool making a fool of your self with your ignorance filled statements. Personally I don't like Radhasoamis but you claiming they are worshiping Krishan is the height of ignorance of their beliefs.

Today, half of the Punjabi Hindu population is following Sikh costoms, teaching their kids about Sikh Gurus and Gurbani. The other half is following breakaway Sikh cults like Radhasoamis, Sacha Saudha and NoorMahalias.

Due to the low birth rate of only having one kid per family soon Punjabi Hindus will become extinct in Punjab itself where Bhaya migrants and Sikhs are taking their place in the cities as well.

Jonny I'm anti Sant I don't believe in Saints nor do I believe is the sant concept to be a part of puratan sikhi and something which came about during british raj as a result of cults being created as well as a whole series of sharlatons. When it comes to bhindranwale he signed his name as giani and in the 3rd person called himself giani or just by his own name. I also think people give too much weight of respect to bhindranwale, some put him equal to the gurus himself and forget his role as just a sikh.

I think all of nanaksar have done alot of harm to Sikhi aswell by dilluting it to a mish-mash tradition which accepts the validity of other traditions to be equal to it's own yet proposes ideas which are contradictory like not eating meat, the lack of eating meat has come at the cost of Sikhs being smaller in size then they used to be and in equalling other traditions, the daughters and sisters of sikhs are marrying out and raising children who aren't sikh. The sons and brothers of sikhs have equated sikhi to atheism through nanaksari ideology and have become drug bound.

When i said Sant I was referring to Sant Giani Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale not Sants in general. I have no problem call Sant Bhindranwale as a sant. He is the very definition of how a Sant should be following Sikhi Sidhaants. When Hindutva types come on Sikh forums, they don't expose their Anti Sikh views at first. They take it step by step. First they will start to do Nindya of Sant Bhindranwale. When they see gullible Sikhs not reacting, then take it a step furthur and justify operation bluestar. When Sikhs still do not react, then they come out in the open with their anti Sikh views.

Secondly we cannot say all Sant are bad. How can one deny Sant Attar Singh Mastuane, Baba Karam Singh Hoti Mardan, Bhindranwale Sants, Sant Ishar Singh Jee, Baba Nand Singh Jee. These men were Gurmukh Pyare.

Ekum, first off it is you and your Gidhar friend here who are history-chors and suffering from the inferiority complex. Most Punjabi Hindus started to follow Sikh customs like opting for an Anand Karaj instead of Hindu marriage, having Akhand Paaths instead of paying Pandits to do a Hindu Havan or pooja. Most of them also do Paath and listen to Kirtan. They are now like honorary Mona Sikhs. Soon they will become Sikhs, God willing. Half the Hindu population is leaving Hinduism and following break away Sikh cults like the Radhasoamis, Sacha Sauda, NoorMahalias. The days of Punjabi Hindus is numbered.

The Hindus have not regained anything, they just demolished an old derelict Mosque who has no historic or religious significance apart from that it is a Mosque. Even with their 80% brute majority they cannot even force the 15% Muslims to accept that the Ram temple can be built on the site. It would have been better if the Hindus had tried to build the Temple when the Mughals were still in charge or when some of the local Hindu Rajas had taken power, but they wait until the Muslims have been reduced to a small minority due to partition and then they kick up a fuss.

Very true. In fact, if the police do not get involved and let the Muslim and Hindus have a fair fight, the Indian Muslims would massacre these Hindu rioters in Gujarat and else where. They always fight minorities with the protection of politicians and the police.

At least us HINDU punjabis let u live in relative peace in Punjab!

"live in relative peace in Punjab"???? Punjabi Hindus are the ones who disturbed the relative peace in Punjab in the first place.

Muslims treated Punjabi HIndus no better than the Bakras they do halal. From being a majority of Punjab's population, the cowardly Punjabi Hindus began to convert to Islam in huge numbers until finally Islam became the majority due to their cowardliness. It took the Sikhs who were a small minority no even 15% of the population of Punjab to liberate it from Islamic control. When Punjabi Hindus look back on their history and see how big Padhals(cowards who starts farting when they get scared) they were they now start to do chori of Sikh history.

n30 just ban this troll. his anti sikh side has been exposed

So real RSS scum finally come out. I had some doubts when you first intially posted, i thought you are genuine spiritual seeker, didn't know you were RSS Hindu terrorist admin cut like rest of your RSS/shiv seva mob brothers.

I would be terrified to see you work in law firm knowning your extermist hindu rss views. You seriously remind of hindu mob terrorist threatning to kill miniroties than phd student.

That's the thing, first they come on Sikh forums pretending to be neutral. Then they start to spread their anti Sant Jee propaganda but they still don't say anything against the Sikh religion. But when they are exposed for what they really are, their anti Sikh views finally come out in the open. These two history-chors, Ekum dude and his Gidhar friend are exposed for what they really are. They try to justify the Sikh genocides while pretending Hindu Punjabis are an innocent peaceful loving community. But when facts come out by knowledgeable Sikhs here exposing how the whole Punjabi mess was a result of anti Sikh policies of this so called peaceful community now he is showing his true colours.

I dont see any information which says he has harmed Sikhs as a community. The swords were to help the hindu community in Gujarat.

It doesn't say here on this article, but like other fanatic Punjabi Hindu terrorist leaders he was a sworn enemy of the Sikhs. He had climbed to the top leadership of the all India Shiv Sena during the 80s by spreading poisonous anti Sikh propaganda. He would would train others on how to kill Sikhs. But like poola and other murderers of the Sikhs, this man was fully protected by the government. Later on due to his other criminal activity he was finally arrested. But after being arrested it was found out he had also supplied weapons to the Hindu terrorists in Gurjarat to be used against Muslim civilians in the 2002 riots.

And what do you mean by "help the hindu community in Gujarat"?? what kind of help is that? like how the poor innocent peaceful Hindus helped each other in Delhi in killing Sikhs after Indira Gandhi died??

Sangat Jee, during the 2002 riots in Gujarat, Punjabi Hindus sent trucks loads of weapons to kill other human beings. On the other hand Sikhs sent truck load after truck load full of food to do langar Seva of the riot victims regardless of religion. That is the difference between Guru Jee's Sikhs and these History-Chors

Should we be?

(a) Shocked.

( Surprised.

© Angry.

(d) Afraid.

(e) or do nothing because we knew this was a plausibility.

I would personally recommend:

Dhol kuto ta ladoo bando.

Problem is, Punjabi Hindus are very quick at pointing fingers at others when it's the skeletons in their own closet that they should be looking at. Punjabi Hindu terrorists like Jagdish Tangri and Pawan Kumar Sharma were not only protected by the Indian government while they killed Sikhs in cold blood but they were even allowed to grow.

Jagdish Tangri who was the leader of all India Shiv Sena, was also a pornographic distributor. When Capt Amrinder Singh was CM of Punjab, he had raided many people's houses who were known tax evaders. When Tangri's house was raided, they found a huge amount of pornographic material that he produced and distributed. This was just one of many of this perverted terrorist's illegal business activities.

Let's be honest. There can only be reconciliation between Sikhs and Punjabi Hindus when the fascist Hindus like the ones that come on here are kicked out of Punjab. These Punjabi Hindus who number a few lakh many of whom are Khatris, Brahmins and Aroras have a special hatred for Sikhs and they will never reconcile with the Sikhs. These are the same people who disowned Punjabi and are happy that Bhaiyas are coming to Punjab. If EO is a Punjabi Hindu fool from the city then the likelihood is that his Bhaiya Rani maid will probably poison him and run off with any cash or jewellery that's in the house. That's what the Punjabi Hindu in the city has become, a victim of bhaiyas! He hasn't been to Punjab or if he has he stayed in his Hindu Punjabi enclave in the city and that's where he started to have his wet dreams of a Punjab dominated by Hindus! Dream on fool, you and your ilk couldn't dominated Punjab when you were double the Sikh population, how you going to dominate when you are measly 37%.

You claim to have been to Jagraon, which I highly doubt but if you did then you must had your eyes shut because every decade the Sikh population grows by more than the Hindus in the town.

Sikhs were 48.8% of Jagraon town in 1981, went up to 55% in 1991 and were 55.41% in 2001. The Hindus have gone down from 48.89% in 1981 to 42.42% in 2001. So your Punjabi Hindu population explosion claim is a falsehood. The Hindus in 2001 only made up the ground they lost from 1971 to 1991, they were 37.54% of Punjab in 1971 and even with the influx of Bhaiyas they just managed to become 36.93% in 2001! The Hindus had decreased to 34% in 1991 due mainly to the fear of the Sikh militants with many Hindus registering as Sikhs in 1991.

As for the Bhaiyas some are identifying with the majority Sikhs ethos and culture of Punjab and becoming Sikhs, maybe they didn't get your memo about taking part in the Hindu takeover of Punjab! All it needs is a push by the Sikh religious organisations and the majority of Bhaiyas will become Sikh, that's a much more likely outcome than one where the Punjabi Hindus who have been decreasing in numbers ever since the first time there was ever a census held in Punjab become the masters of Punjab.

excellent points Tony jee, Despite so many Sikhs migrating from Punjab for the west for the last 3 decades and the blood bath of Sikh youth during the 80s and 90s, still Sikhs have enough babies to maintain their 60% majority in Punjab while Punjabi Hindus who despite remaining in Punjab(with no major migration outside the state), have actually shrunk because they only have one baby per family. Soon they will even be a minority in the cities too as more Sikhs from the villages are migrate there searching for jobs. In fact the property price boom in the cities for the last 2 decades is because of Sikhs migrating to the cities buying up property.

Culturally Sikhs dominate Punjab so much that even many Punjabi Hindus have started adopting Sikh costoms like doing Anand Karaj, having Akhand Paaths etc. They are almost like Mona Sikhs. The days of these hateful Arya Samaji Hindus is limited.

The word kara itself has an interesting history/etymology:

It apparently comes from Farsi and means something like a slave bangle there.

Once I heard a Kathakar says that hand cuffs in Punjabi/Hindi/Urdu means Hath Karhi.

Karha is also a Hath Karhi which represents our bond with our Guru who is our master.

This Punjabi Hindu terrorist Jagdish Tangri was also a known enemy of the Sikhs. His Hindu terrorist network had killed Sikhs during the 1980s and is responsible for spreading much hatred against the peaceful Sikhs community. He had wanted to ethnically cleanse all of punjab of Sikhs by driving them into Pakistan. During the Gujarat riots when Hindu terrorists killed thousands of Muslims, the Punjabi Hindu terrorists Jagdish Tangri supplied weapons and money to be used against Muslim civilians.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20030307/ldh1.htm

Tangri supplied arms to Gujarat rioters: ex-cohort

Tribune News Service

Ludhiana, March 6

A former accomplice of former Shiv Sena leader Jagdish Tangri has given under oath some startling details of how the leader and his son allegedly supplied arms and ammunition to members of a particular community in Gujarat last year, which were allegedly used in the riots in the state.

Mr Sai Dass, formerly a close associate of Mr Tangri, has turned approver in the arms supply case that hit the headlines last year. The district police has received a shot in the arm with this.

Mr Sai Dass was one of the five persons booked by the district police last year for supplying arms to some persons in Gujarat. The case had been registered at the Division number 3 police station on the recommendation of the SP City-I of Amritsar. The police officer had quoted intelligence inputs received about the supply of arms.

Four persons, including Mr Jagdish Tangri, Mr Sunil Tangri and Mr Ravinder Pal Singh, had been booked under charges amounting to waging a war against the Government of India by collecting and supplying arms and rioting. Barring Mr Sunil Tangri, all had been arrested.

The approver’s statement has taken the lid off the arms supply case. Till now, a few details were available of what had happened. The police had no more details than the directions of the police officer at Amritsar.

Highly placed police sources disclosed to TNS that Sai Dass, lodged at Central Jail here, had written a letter to the District and Sessions Judge through the jail officials, requesting him that he be made an approver. His request was accepted and he gave a statement to Mr Balwinder Kumar, JMIC, under Section 164 of the CrPc yesterday.

In his statement, the approver stated that in March last year, he had witnessed the events during which Mr Jagdish Tangri and others had allegedly struck the deal. He said three persons from Gujarat had come specifically for the purpose. He said Mr Jagdish Tangri and others had allegedly loaded bags of swords, knives and other weapons in a Tata Sumo. Police sources claimed that the weapons had been used during the riots.

“I had put three sacks filled with these weapons in the vehicle,” stated Mr Sai Dass before the Judge, police sources said. He also stated that Mr Tangri used to run his own court of law in Gur Mandi, settled disputes on his own terms and used to charge money.

Mr Anil Joshi, SHO, Division number 3 police station, declined to comment, saying it was part of the police investigation. He said that police had made some success in the case.

Mr Jagdish Tangri, his son Sunil and others had been booked and arrested last year. The charges included rioting, supplying arms, attacking policemen, pirating audio and video cassettes and compact discs, running a sort of parallel administration in the Gur Mandi and harbouring anti-social elements.

On 9th June 1982 Hindu terrorist Mahant in the Mokha village burnt 15 Guru Granth Sahib Jees, Sikhs reported this incident to the police, but police took no action.

Hindus were also caught throwing cigarettes and biris into the sarovar of Darbar Sahib, when Sikhs handed them over to the police, no action was taken.

Yet if someone kills a cow, he is charged and put in jail. This is Hindu justice.

I would like for him to have some continuous so that he can carry on reading the board and we can explore some of his ideas (god knows what our indian sikh brothers with low internet presence think). This idea of Sikhs being Hindus came from the Hindutva, Aryan Samaj right wing groups. Who feel that once Sikhs denounce their uniqueness, it's only a matter of time until they denounce their different outer appearance and embrace mainstream Hinduism. Had Sikhi truly been felt to be identical then we would have gurdwaras filled with many Hindus listening to gurbani and enjoying it's bliss.

This idea seems to have been borrowed from Muhammdens who like to use Sikhi's similarities as a conveyor belt to convert and in both instances this has worked.

Thing is, Hindutva types think Sikhs are HIndus, but from the inside they know it's not true either. If they did, they would not have declared Hindi as their language which they did just to oppose the Sikhs. With the exception of the Punjabi Hindus, No other Hindu ethnicity in all of India had oppose their own mother tongue. Punjabi Hindus did it just to oppose the Sikhs.

Sikhs had never hated Punjabi Hindus, but since 1947, Hindus began to view Sikhs as if Sikhs are Pakistanis. Any genuine demand Sikhs had like language status of Punjab being Punjabi, or Punjabi speaking areas and Chandigarh be returned to Punjab, Amritsar be given Holy City status like Banaras, it is Punjabi Hindus who always oppose this the most. This type of anti Sikh behavior on the part of Punjabi Hindus at first left Sikhs confused as to why Hindus are doing then. Then Nirankari clash of 1978 where the killed and killers both were non Hindus, yet the Punjabi Hindus just to oppose the Sikhs had openly taken the side of the Nirankaris. This created a lot of animosity amongst the Sikh population. The Punjabi Hindus had done the same thing during the Nankana Sahib massacre decades earlier where they took the side of Narainu even though he had brutally killed a large number of peaceful Sikhs.

Punjabi Hindus need to get this into their head that Sikhs are not their enemy. If anyone has stood by them shoulder to shoulder it has always been Sikhs, yet why they still view Sikhs as the enemy is a huge mystery in itself. It seems Punjabi Hindus just do this because Sikhs do not consider themselves Hindus, as a result of this Punjabi HIndus have made it a point to oppose the Sikh no matter what.

BBC Nihal (a muhammden) doesn't believe everyone lived in peace under maharaja ranjit singh perhaps the evident wars and seditious acts which followed show that. Plus I doubt Muhammdens would want the supremacy of nonbelievers above them.

Nihal is a Hindu not Muslim. And he's south Indian

why does this forum attract so many psychopath hindus?

True. They come on a Sikh forum saying how the Sikh genocide of 84 was all okay. It's like a Nazi going on a Jewish forum and trying to justify the holocaust.

Just a bunch of trolls who are trying to over compensate for their humiliating existence for the last 800 years as slaves of foreign powers and then they try to steal the history of other people and claim it as their own.

Keep speculating while we succeed! Fact 2nd fastest economic power, billion strong, HINDU NATION!

First build a nation then talk it's 2014, forget ur fantasies of the past what u done lately?

Homeless don't get no respect as u seen from the Brits lately lolz

Hindu population is 1 billion so what? In this world there is also no shortage of cockroaches either, but like the lion population, Sikh population is low but pure quality. Singh is King!

Amarjeet bro you have nailed it. But it seems the Punjabi hindus here are suffering from a severed case of learning disability. It happens to them because they being the most humiliated people for centuries even by Hindu standard. They begin to create fantasies about their imaginative past.

Johnny ur living in cloud cuckoo land, Bhayas ate treated badly by sikhs ESP jats, everyone knows it and sees it, if I'm doubt ask them!

Bhayas are learning punjabi and are settled in Punjab there kids are HINDUS speak punjabi and are the next generation adding to population of punjabi Hindus!

I love seeing their little MANDIRS on every street corner of Jullundhar Ludhiana etc

Sikh population of Punjab is shrinking as they leave to canada America uk mostly on student or visitors visas, and often overstay illegally and the homes or kothis they build are taken over by live in naukars maids etc the lovely bhaiyas, when these sikhs abroad die, and their kids go to India once a year for 2 weeks the bhaiyas will take over!

Sikhs have 1 or 2 kids a lot kill daughters, whilst bhaiyas have 5 or 6 HINDU kids and don't kill their daughters!

In just 20 years sikhs will be a clear minority in Punjab!

Enjoy

Haha how funny coming from you. It seems you have never been to punjab. The Bhayas that come to the villages are only seasonal workers. They leave after their work is done. It is the cities where they want to settle and who dominates the cities? that's right, its the punjabi hindus. The Punjabi hindus treat these poor Bhayas like slaves. It is very common to see their women folk being assaulted by Punjabi Hindu.

The statistic of female infanticide is just as bad if not worse amongst the Punjabi Hindus. At least Sikhs have 2-3 kids average compared to the Hindus who only have 1 kid per family lol. As a result of this low birth rate of Punjabi Hindus, they only want a boy.

Just last year I went to India and had a conversation with a Punjabi hindu. He was complaining to be how if something is not done about Bhayas migrating to the cities of Punjab, soon they(Punjabi Hindus) will become minority in the cities too.

Ps the census figures you are quoting are 30 years old, Lolz

You obviously haven't been to Punjab ! U see more Hindus from UP than sardars!

Hindus punjabis inc Hindus from UP, AP, Haryana all LIVING IN PUNJAB make up close to 60% of population!

Go to Jullundhar or Ludhiana or Phagwara, Nawanshahr, jagrami, everyone's speaking Hindi or English at shops and restaurants!

It's probably you who hasn't been to Punjab. Look at the recent census data, even it says Sikhs are 60%. And all the UP/Bihari Bhaya population is there are seasonal workers who leave after their work. It is actually the Punjabi Hindus who hate the Bhayas the most because the Bhayas like to settle in the cities where the Punjabi hindu lives instead of the villages where the Sikhs live. Every Hindu you talk about is so racist against these poor Bhayas. In Maharashtra, Bhayas are also not tolerated by racist Hindus. So much for Hindu unity lol