Jonny101

Yes I understand

Sanu vi Dasan di kirpa karo

I dont believe how bigoted some of these forum posters are.

Now they blaming the communal division of Punjab on Hindus!!

Of course!! who else is to blame? had the Hindus not betrayed their own language in favour of Hindi today Punjab would have been a larger state. In the end, this move by the Punjabi Hindus only back fired on them. Before the unfair division of Punjab, they were ruling Punjabi politics. Today they are now a minority in Punjab, Haryana and Himachal and trusted by neither the Sikhs, Haryanvi or Pahadias. What a shame

The weed taken by Bhagat, Udham and kartar singh is called Desh Prem. I wonder what they would have done with traitors asking for division of their revered motherland.

India is strong and would continue to tackle khalibans with danda they deserve. absolutely no support for khalistan in Punjab. Sikhs in Punjab (one of the most prosperous state of India) enjoying complete freedom. Guru sahib has much larger laaj (Hind di laaj) to keep, don't make him look like a petty sectarian like yourself.

If Bhagat Singh, Udham Singh and Kartar Singh were alive during 1984 and saw what Indira Gandhi did to their Punjab and their peole, they would have joined the other Sikh youth militants in their fight against injustice. Udham Singh would have probably done what Satwant Singh-Beant Singh or Sukha-Jinda did. Khalistani militants took much of their inspiration from these great men.

For someone who claims to be a so called "communist", Mr. MA is extremely pro Hindu(what a contradiction!). He justifies all of their anti Sikh moves or just out right denies them, but if Sikhs do anything in protest or resist then that is totally unjustifiable and communal. If Sikhs even sneeze, it's probably an Anti Hindu sneeze. His sense of justice is the worst I've ever seen. My family background(from Nanke side) is communist who were involved in the communist party way back even before partition happened during the early years of the communist movement in India. Mr MA is certainly not authentic communist. ਮੈਨੂੰ ਤਾਂ ਇਹ ਬੰਦਾ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਲਗ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਝੂਟੋ ਝੂਟ ਹੀ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਨੂੰ ਸਿਖ ਤੇ ਕੌਮਨਿਸਟ ਕਿਹ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ

All though i don't care as well, as everything is in hakum but from parcharik perspective this should be bit of pinch wake up call ...mainstream parcharikhs may want to review how they approach things in sikhi.

One thing I think Sikh Parcharaks need to do is stop infighting with each other. Due to this infighting, we just end up cancelling each other out. Let the Sants, Taksals, AKJ, Nihangs, Nirmalas, missionaries, SGPC all do their own parchar. Just don't do parchar against each other. Once we have this type of mindset, then the real parchar will take place towards Sikhs and non Sikhs and Sikhi will grow.

Our own infighting has resulted in the rise of Nakli Gurudoms in Punjab, Christian proselytism and the likes of Sumedh Saini trying to spread Islam. Bhai Jugraj Singh of Basics of Sikhi has a good approach. We need parcharaks like him in India and watch how people will gravitate towards Sikhi.

Akalis NEVER agitated to bring back the Punjabi speaking areas into Punjab.

This has been a long awaited demand of the Sikhs that Punjabi speaking areas given to Haryana be given back to Punjab. The division of Punjab was a long term strategy by the central government. By giving the Punjabis a Punjabi Suba with all the genuine Punjabi speaking areas, they knew that the Haryanvis with a small Haryana state would then look towards merging Jat inhabited lands of western UP(Harit Pradesh) and this in turn would weaken UP which was Nehru's support base. The central government made such an unfair division of Punjab which insured that the two states would keep their horns locked with each other over territorial issues so the Harianvis do not look towards UP. The Bania has even surpassed the Angrez in his divide and rule strategy.

Mind if i ask you what kind of weed you take? asking you as you stopped with india

The same weed Bhagat Singh, Kartar Singh Sarabha and Udham Singh took. Don't be too confident. Circumstances will not remain the same. India is surrounded by hostile nations who want nothing but bad for India. Possibly It is in that chaos and confusion that Khalsa Raaj/Khalistan will happen. Only Guru Sahib knows how He will keep the Laaj of this Panth and grant them Raaj.

You are devoid of reality my friend. If the Takhts in Patna and Nander need to be in Khalsa Raj then why not the Gurdwara in Baghdad? So let's aim for Khalsa Raj in Iraq as well. How about the Gurdwaras in Nepal? Let;s have Khalsa Raj in Nepal as well. Let's not overlook the historic Gurdwaras in Afghanistan, so how about aiming for Khalsa Raj in Kabul as well. Tibet, Sri Lanka Kazakhstan, let's just aim to take over the whole of Asia while we are at it. Hey let's forget the fact that no movement can expand and no army can fight without first having it's headquarters safe and secure. The Sikh base of Punjab goes down the pan because we don't want to be Punjab centric and save it but Sikhs can still aim for Khalsa Raj in the rest of India!

very true. Before looking outward, first Sikhs need a secure base in the form of Khalistan. Only after this will Khalsa Raaj expand.

ਪਿਹਲਾ ਖੜ੍ਹਣ ਲਈ ਜਗਾ ਬਣਾ ਲਈਏ, ਬਾਚੋਂ ਬੈਟਨ ਲਈ ਜਗਾ ਭੀ ਬਣਾ ਲਵਾਂਗੇ

Damn media!

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Seems like we have another Hindu trying to stir trouble here by masking himself as a communist

Sat Sri Akal Singho!

I am Jung Singh and I am 26 years old. I live in Toronto, Canada. I have a Masters in Political Science and thinking of pursuing further education. I am against Khalistan as a state which would denote the secession of the State of Punjab from India. For, I am for preaching Sikhi outside of Punjab and preserving our relationship with Takht Shri Hazur Sahib and Patna Sahib (and of course all Non-Punjab Gurukars). I am against the creation of Pakistan as well. I also do not agree with the Durand Line. I love the Ghadar Party and I ascribe to their political ideology. I am a strong proponent of decolonization via a radical education system based on the writings of people like Antonio Gramsci and other Leftists. I am a strong supporter of the Naxalites and the Indian National Army.

How do you reconcile your peaceful views with Ghadhar movement which would have waged a violent movement in India had they not been found out on time and been successful?

and Naxalites who are being trained and armed by China to cause bloodshed and terrorism in India. Yet you have issues with Khalistan movement.

Communism is a failed ideology. Russia collapsed because of this. China today is just communist in name only, but has now almost become a capitalist state. In India Bengal and Kerala have destroyed their industries.

Jonny 101, you are wrong. Simply put. And I have to be blunt. There is no single homogenous group called "Punjabi Hindus". Please wake up and read the ideology of Ghadar Party, look at the Naxalite cause, the book by Vandana Shiva and her work. Look at Gramsci's book: Prison Notebooks. You are obviously not awake. Punjabi Hindus? What are Punjabi Hindus? I know the Punjabi Hindus of my area are falling victim to the drug menace just as badly as the Sikh kids. Did a lot of the Hindus of Punjab (defined as Himachal, Haryana and Current Punjab state) vote against Punjabi Suba? Yes, they did. However, the reason for Haryana is that they dont speak our Punjabi. If you go to Ropar, Kharar, Kurali etc, you will see that the Hindus there speak Haryanvi style Punjabi. Their included in Punjab... If you go into Haryana, their language is not "Punjabi" like ours. It makes sense that a lot of Haryana voted against the Punjabi Suba which would have put our dialect onto them by legislative force. However, in Himachal, many Hindus spoke Punjabi and they still voted for Hindi. This is because they fell into the trap of the RSS... Even today many of them speak Punjabi. If you see a video on youtube about Capt. Amrinder Singh talking to Badal, you will see how he exposes that Badal's "Akali" Dal wanted to make Punjabi Suba into a Hindu vs. Sikh issue so his party can win a majority in Punjab and he can get his Chaudar. The so called Akalis under Badal and the RSS worked together to make the language issue a religious one. This worked. Wake up. The attack is coming from all sides. The very fact that you mention whole communities as one, really makes me wonder how old you are, and what your education is. Please do tell...

I am beginning to think that Im speaking to young children here who have only been educated by a select few youtube videos and some uneducated Sants in India... I repeat: PLEASE READ VANDANA SHIVA AND GHADAR PARTY IDEOLOGY! ALSO GRAMSCI! READ ABOUT HEGEMONY!

I have a Masters in Political Science and I ascribe to the ideology of the Ghadar Party. I can bet many people here dont even know the fact that the Khardku movement ran parallel into the Naxalite Punjab Movement. Does anyone even know about Baba Bhuja Singh? Please read more books. I can see why a lot of people here use general labels to identify political entities and social movements. Most of you seem like little kids who have barely read anything and have minimal knowledge of Political Science.... Please read more and speak intelligently. Scholars would laugh in our face if they read the comments on this website. Generalization evinces your lack of knowledge.

SatnaamJi

You are so out of touch of the situation during the 80s and before. You think the Hindu Punjabis of today are like the hostile Arya Samaji Hindus of the previous decades. Nothing could be further from the truth. Today's Hindus do not oppose Punjab's demands. Punjabi Hindus of the past had opposed the Punjabi language, Punjab river water issue, declaring Amritsar as a holy city like Banaras is for Hindus. You are also confusing Harianvi Hindus with Punjabi ones. Harianvi Hindus do not even speak Punjab, but the Punjabi Hindus were full blooded Punjabis yet opposed Punjabi language. The reason for that was just to oppose the Sikhs, otherwise they had no reason to oppose Punjabi language. Sikhs never had any issue with Haryanvis. For all we care they can form their own greater Jat state with Jat areas of Rajasthan, MP, UP after they give back Punjabi speaking areas of Haryana back to Punjab.

And how is demanding Punjabi language be give it's due status, Punjabi speaking lands in Haryana merged into Punjab, Punjab's river water issue a "Sikh issue"??? It very smart of Punjabi Hindus to have falsely present these genuine demands into communal ones. And the communists(Kaum-Nasht) of Punjab being anti Sikh to the core also supported the Hindus against the Sikhs. No wonder communists lost all their support base from amongst the Punjabi peasants. I'm glad the communists have no say in Punjab, because if one looks at where the communists managed to form the state governments, they've turned Bangal and Kerala into economic backward states which are now on the verge of being taken over by Muslims. Communist? not thanks...

http://www.thenewstribe.com/2014/02/19/indian-singer-hans-raj-hans-embraces-islam-wants-to-go-madinah/

Lahore: Indian famous singer Hans Raj Hans has confirmed media reports in which it was mentioned that the singer has embraced Islam.

According to a report published in newspaper, the singer said his name would be Mohammad Yousuf for now but he cleared that he will maintain his name ‘Hans Raj Hans’ for singing industry.

He said he has got the Islamic education very closely and started reading of Holy Quran and gradually began to understand the essence of the divine revelation. I listened to the call of my heart and decided to embrace Islam.”

We should follow the teaching of Islam as it is a Religion of Love and Peace, he added.

Raj further said that he felt proud to become a Muslim, adding that he wanted to visit Madinah as early as possible.

He emphasized both India and Pakistan to resolve all the problems with dialogue as it was the wish of the people of both the countries.

Singho, I see a lot of anti-gurbani comments here. If we want reconciliation with "hindus" then we have to first stop referring to "hindus" as a whole. If you want to talk about the RSS then talk about them. Saying "hindu this, hindu that" is tantamount to the RSS saying "sikhs are anti-nationalist". This was the same mistake Sant Jarnail Singhji made. We have to be specific when we make attacks against an entity.

Bro try to see things in proper historical context instead of making blanket statements against Sant Jee. After 1947, Punjabi Hindus always voted as Hindus in competition against the Sikhs. When ever Sikhs took up the cause of Punjab, the Punjabi Hindus would oppose it just because the Sikhs had espoused the cause. Example of this is the rights of Punjabi language. The Sikhs supported the cause of their mother tongue as loyal sons of Punjab, but the Hindus of Punjab opposed the demand simply to counter the Sikhs. So when a community begins to vote as one united block as opposers to the Sikhs, then obviously Sant Jee will refer to them by their name.

Hahaha! He and his like-minded posters on this forum are only anti-Hindu

What are you talking about? when did I write anything anti Hindu? It is only the Punjabi Hindus who are under the evil influence of Arya Samaj that are the trouble makers. Rest of the Hindus are alright. Plus I have never said anything against Hindu Dharm because I know Arya Samaj as distortion of real Hindu Dharm. Before Arya Samaj came to Punjab, Sikhs and Hindus were close. But since the creation of this evil sect, nothing has been the same. They created mistrust and competitive type attitude in the minds of Hindus against the Sikhs where previously there was none.

Khalistan is just a starting point. Eventually all of India will become part of Khalsa Raaj. When India is under the rule of the Khalsa, Dharm will prevail and it will be like the return of Satyug. Had the Sikhs won during the Anglo Sikh wars, India would have come under Khalsa Raaj way back then. But that was just a temporary setback. Khalsa Raaj will eventually happen, first in Punjab then in all of India.

That's what I was talking about with these singers who slyly promote Islam in the form of Sufism. Hans Raj Hans was showing the signs years ago. Most of his Sikhi related songs are from the 80s to mid 90s. After that he just stopped. Just get ready for the others to follow suit namely Sartaj and Kanwar Grewal who I feel are closet Muslims especially Grewal. What kind of message this will send to their fans especially Sikh youth lets see.

Another possibility I see is a lot of people "convert" to Islam in India in order to marry a second time(as Dharmindra did) or maybe he has converted to Islam for a Muslim lady much as a Nakai Sardar who was the heir to the Nakai misl did a long time ago.

I think you only got half the picture right here. Before you joined, there was a user called Ekomkar who is a Punjabi Hindu. He and to a lesser degree his friend Sher had written a lot of Bakwas here against the Sikhs, Sikh history and even celebrated operation blue star. It was in response to him that I wrote some stuff here which you find objectionable. Usually I don't write this type of stuff with such direct language but one must use iron to cut iron(Loha Lohay noon Katda hai). To counter Ekomkar's lies me and others here had to put everything in proper historical and factual context because they were presenting a very distorted picture of what happened in the 1980s.

As for Pakistan or Muslim issue, can you show me here where someone wrote something objectionable.

Dal Singh Jee, nothing wrong in joining the military. It builds character and maintains a martial tradition and at times of need these experienced veterans can also become useful in the defense of their people(ex Gen Shahbeg Singh, Baba Manochahal). Yes fighting for one's freedom is a true sign of the Khalsa, but one should certainly not look down upon those serving in the military.The vast majority of freedom fighters (pre 1947) were veterans and neither did they ever look down upon their fellow countrymen who served in the military. Even during the 1980s, Sikh militants never looked down upon Sikh soldiers in the Indian army.

It is quite clear from the videos posted that the underlying motive may have been to ridicule Sikhs directly as there is certainly a large quantity of them out there. To keep targeting one particular community and telling jokes against them to make insinuations is plain wrong and most people would object whether it be from any community. After being forced to hear a barrage of jokes solely aimed against your community any one of us would get upset and offended.

But in context of a single joke content itself a few would be equally funny if the word Sardar or name of the person was substituted for something else or from another community. You can't help but have a little giggle at the joke itself but not directly at who it is being targeted if the intent isn't malicious and I think that is where differentiation lies. When a sardar tells a sardar joke is he actually laughing because he wants to insult "Sardar ji" of which he might actually be one or the joke content?

It's like the case when a black guy says to another black guy Hey N@@ger! It might not be deemed offensive, but as soon as a none black person uses it is.

If we today turn around and say Sardar ji or panjabi jokes are offensive, then one has to equally say that all jokes against any community are offensive. That means you can never tell a joke because you end up offending someone. All of a sudden you have eliminated 70% of the jokes out there and political correctness is gone mad. There has to be a right balance and where does one draw that line is very grey indeed.

When I and others on this forum posted a Sardar/Sikh/Panjabi joke were we trying to insult our own people or just having a little laugh at the underlying joke. Would you too also have laughed if the person was Mr Patel, or Mohammed or another name for that matter.

I'm all for jokes. I like to laugh like anyone else. But I certainly don't like jokes at someone else's expense that makes an entire community look like half brained idiots. Among the Sikhs you will find people who are highly educated who have made their mark in the world of business, academia, politics, military yet the two other communities of South Asia have made these hurtful jokes on our people. The least we can do is not become a participant in our own mockery.

The SGPC is useless in any attempt to protect the Gurdwaras in Pakistan. I like the idea of Sikh Khoj because a Gurdwara can only really function and have its future assured if there is an active Sikh community to use it as its focal point. The Pakistani Sikhs are very small in number probably about 12000 and are located in areas which are far from the historic Gurdwaras in West Punjab.

The approach needs to be pragmatic. There is just not enough resources to save the Gurdwaras which are not historical in the sense that they were build to meet the needs of Sikh migrants in the canal colonies like Lyallpur. Due to proximity of the Sikh community in Khyber Pakhtunwa the Gurdwaras there should be quite easy to maintain and resurrect.

The Gurdwaras in West Punjab apart from Nankana Sahib have virtually not Sikh communities living around. Therefore what is needed is for a Sikh community to be settled in the area around the Gurdwara. What needs to have is high level activism by Sikh organisations outside India to protect the lands that each of these have attached to them. This would release the required funds as the lands should be leased out. The Sikh community around each Gurdwara would require s school which could be started in the Gurdwara premises or in a hall attached to the Gurdwara. In order to keep these communities in contact with the rest of the Sikh world the main way would be through these Gurdwaras being made a part of the yatri trail so that at least once a year a substantial number of Sikhs from other countries can vsit these Gurdwaras.

excellent points. In addition to this, growth of the community should also be promoted in the form of proselytizing. Since it is against the law to proselytize Muslims, so Sikhi parchar can be directed towards the Hindus and Christian communities who number in the millions. The future of the Gurdwaras will not be secure without an active Sikh community around these historic Gurdwaras. Sikhs community in Pakistan should at least be a million strong.

PS - I should also point out the fact that plenty of Singhs go on like real life clowns regardless of the jokes.

no more or less than anyone else belonging to the Hindu, Muslim or Christian community.

Just so the lads don't get upset here is a story in their favour.

My friend Jayant, told me the following incident which I wish to share with you. It has had a deep impact on my thinking.

In the diwali vacation, Jayant and his couple of friends had gone to Delhi. They rented a taxi for local sight-seeing. The driver was an old Sardar, and boys being boys, Jayant and his pals began cracking Sardarji jokes, just to insinuate the old man. But to their surprise, the fellow remained unperturbed. At the end of the sight-seeing, they paid up the hire-charges. The Sardar returned the change.

Moreover, he gave each one of them one rupee extra and said, (in Hindi, of course),''son, since morning you have been telling Sardarji jokes. I listened to them all and let me tell you, some of them were in a very bad taste. Still, I don't mind coz I know that you are young blood and are yet to see the world. But I have just one request. Here I am giving you one rupee each. Give it to the first Sardar beggar that you come across in this city."

Jayant continued," That one rupee coin is still with me. I couldn't find a single Sardar begging on the streets of Delhi."

I think trying to explain to fools that that they are taking the pi$$ out of their people is a losing game. The fact that the guy's wife sent him the joke shows how low and debased some Sikhs have become.

These fools don't understand why they will never see Hindus post Hindu jokes on their forums or Muslims post Muslim jokes of their Muslim forums. The non-Sikhs always post Sikh jokes mainly because we have fools in our community who think it's ok to joke about how stupid Sikhs are. Apparently if you can take the pi$$ out of your people it means you have a good sense of humour! The original fool instead of realising what a fool he is then starts to post more Sikh jokes.

God help us if these fools ever become the majority in our community. Like the sakhi about the good village and the bad village I hope these stupid Sikhs stay in one place and don't infect their 'humour' on the rest of the community.

To the original fool, yes I do not have a sense of humour when fools like you take the pi$$ out of our own people, if that makes me a Taliban, a fanatic or whatever other adjectives you want to throw at me in trying to prove how enlightened and liberal you are then go ahead.

FYI Some Hindu woman at work accidentally forwarded an email with some Santa Banta jokes and I made sure that management disciplined her and the Muslim woman who sent the original email and both came close to being sacked. They had written warning and their argument is that even Sikhs enjoy Santa Banta jokes. Even the Black guy who investigated the matter agreed that these jokes are racist. Now perhaps you will realise why I take strong exception to these jokes especially when fools in our own community start to posting them on Sikh forums.

These Sardarji jokes are created by Hindus and Muslims of the sub continent to poke fun at Sikhs. Until the civil rights movement in America, it was common place for white people to openly make jokes on the black people. Just look at the portrayal of Sikhs in bollywood movies as jokers, in America they would portray black people as fools in old black&white movies usually played by white actors who would blacken their faces with makeup. It's only after the civil rights movement that it became a taboo for whites to carry on with their racist jokes.

These jokes were originally done at bholay-bhaalay rural Sikhs by urban Hindus and Muslims. But they never dared to make these jokes at the faces of Sikhs, it was always done behind our backs. But with the rise of Hindi movies, it took anti Sikh jokes to a whole new level where Sikhs would be openly mocked as fools for the whole nation to see. Not surprising since bollywood was dominated by the urban Punjabi Hindus. Watching this jokerish portrayal of Sardars since childhood, what Sikh boy wants to grow up looking like a Sardar? what Sikh girl will want to marry a joker when she grows up? the result is these children grow up with an inferiority complex and end up cutting their hair because they don't want to look like jokers.

Although the Sardarji jokes were started even before partition but the Santa Banta jokes were started during the 80s by Hindus right after operation bluestar. These anti Sikh jokes were even encouraged as the man in the video has rightly said. As you have pointed out, you will never find a Hindu making Hindu jokes on a Hindu forum or Muslims making Muslim jokes on a Islamic forum.

And Dal Singh Veer Jeo, having pride I did not mean hankaar. By pride I meant self respect. If we ourselves do not have self respect, what respect can we expect from others? If you respect yourself, others will also respect you.

I've got pride (not the supremacist type btw), but that doesn't mean I can't laugh at some witty joke.

Sat, the first joke was funny, the ones after were rubbish.

PS - I should also point out the fact that plenty of Singhs go on like real life clowns regardless of the jokes.

I agree that the fist joke was a witty joke, although in bad taste. But the other ones after are the typical Sardar Jee jokes Hindus do to make Sikhs look stupid especially the mosquito one.