Jonny101

Jathedar sahib, children and children. why classify them as "daughters" and "sons"? this mindset is one of the major reasons behind such a high rate of female foeticide among the Punjab agrarian communities (dominated by Jats of course) as they don't want their small fields to be divided further.

It is sexist as a daughter is being denied a right in her ancestral property because of her gender. Also discriminatory as not all of the daughters get married.

if i am not wrong a father (or mother) cannot deny a daughter her share in the property if the father has inherited it from his forefathers. About the assets accumulated by father, he can disown his daughter but would need really good reason to do so. I can be wrong about this understanding of inheritance law.

female infanticide is more common amongst the urban Punjabi Hindus than the rural Sikhs. Where as Sikhs still have 2-3 children average, the urban Punjabi Hindus will rarely even have 2 children being satisfied with only 1 child. As a result of this 1 child policy of the urban Punjabi Hindus has resulted in a very disturbing trend of parents being very selective about only wanting male children because of which the female fetus is aborted while in the womb.

If i were a fanatic for the faith i was born , I would have given you 1000 good things about Hinduism. But, fortunately, i am not a fanatic. i am not here to sell Hinduism to Khalsa, sikhs, namdharis, whatevers. if you find Hinduism reprehensible, fine by me. if u think it is bad because it does not have one single book, or one shrine or one God...that's still fine, that's your opinion and, unlike, fanatic, intolerant, supremacist

I never said HInduism is bad or any other religion is bad. neither am I asking for you to tell me 1000 good things about Hinduism. I am only asking you what is Hinduism based on it's beliefs, disbeliefs, practices, rehit.

Sher, very simple way to know the difference between Hinduism and Sikhi is for you to first define Hinduism i.e. beliefs, disbelief, practices.

only one was allowed in England, and if she turned out a bad one, he could not easily get rid of her. Ranjeet said that was a bad custom; that the Sikhs were allowed twenty-five wives, and they did not dare to be bad, because he could beat them if they were. G. replied that was an excellent custom, and he would try to introduce it when he got home.' [7]

LOL where did the 25 wives thing come from? it's too funny to be true

My bet is that it is for some manipulative, brainwashing boyfriend.

seems like a typical case of love jihad

I dont think you need to resort to personal attacks.

Counter my arguments/assertions Neo NOT me.I can also shame you for your lack of tolerance, patience, gyan and bibek.

About Sikhi borrowing from Sanatan traditions in totality, i would ask you one simple question, what in Sikhi is new, something which was not mentioned in earlier sanatan religious texts or oral traditions?

There cannot be a bigger Sikh scholar 9aand votary of sep Sikh identity) than Khushwant Singh.

he says: "

(Sourced from page 383 of 'The Book on Trial: Fundamentalism and Censorship in India By Girja Kumar)

"Sikhism is an offshoot of Hinduism and is only distinguishable by the external symbols of the Khalsa faith. The theology is Hindu (and) almost ninetenth of the Granth Sahib, composed largely by Guru Arjun, is in fact Vedanta, and an essence of all that you read in Upanishads and the Gita"

KS also dramatized this point through a joke in his book Many Faces, p.4: Sikh scholars sat down to take Hinduism out of the Granth Sahib. They took it out page by page. In the end, however, they were left holding the binding cover in their hands.

Your choice, you want to jhulao jhavar over binding cover or to simply admit the fact that there is absolutely no diff between the so-called Hindu and Sikh teologies.

First define for us here what is Hinduism. What is it's rehit, it's beliefs, disbelief.

Sher is quoting KPS Gill of all people a man who had slaughtered Sikhs indiscriminately. That's as ridiculous as someone quoting Gen Brar's white washed version of operation bluestar! Tully wasn't even there in the 1978 massacre. According to the survives and eyewitnesses of the massacre, the peaceful Sikh procession was attacked and shot at by the armed Nirankaris. You can quote all the people who weren't even there, it wont prove a point. The fact that the Indian justice system then failed to bring the Nirankaris to justice who had killed the Sikhs forced the Sikhs to form armed groups as a defensive measure.

You may try to justify Nirankaris any way you like. I don't blame you since Hindus have a long history of having their Mandirs and Moortis insulted by invaders(Muslims) who often found the Mandirs abandoned by the Hindus even before arriving but Sikhs since the start of their history have never tolerated anyone doing beadbi of Guru Maharaj. So you cannot possibly understand why the Sikhs reacted

Are any of those on the internet in English? If so it is possible to provide a link or perhaps where I could find it.

I would like to find the stories of how Banda ji was given amrit.

Not sure. to learn about Baba Jee, please listen to this talks.

I would repeat what i said about banda bahadur. He was a Hindu when Guru sahib approached him. He was a vaishnav Hindu while fighting the Muslims. he died a vaishnav Hindu. no puratan/contemporary source call him a banda SINGH Bahadur. The sources you have mentioned (about BB taking amrit) are more of small time Qisah writers. And anyway, it is JUST one point where you have managed to name few (even though totally unknown - google returns zero result) sources to prove your point partially. How about the other issues even while talking about BB? Was he a Hindu when Guru sahib went to him or not? why would Guru sahib seek a Hindu's help if these two faiths were separate as you would like us to believe?

Did BB not try to impose his vaishnav faith on Khalsas (forget other sikhs as there was and is absolutely no diff between Hindus and Sikhs)? did he not change the Khalsa slogan? did Tat Khalsa not fought against his followers? was he not betrayed by Trehan Bhalla sahibzadas? Did Tat Khalsa Sardars not desert him in the middle of his final battle? Were the TK traitors not rewarded by the Mughas with jagirs and employment?

You'r whole bases of doing chori of our history is that if a person a born a Hindu he supposedly remains one for the rest of his life. Yes he was a Hindu when Guru Jee met him but upon meeting Guru Jee he took Amrit, what is so difficult in this for you to understand?? are you seriously that thick? Even my ancestors were Hindus who then became Sikhs!!

Just because you are not well read and only rely on the internet and google for all your historical info does not lower the credibility of historians. Even contemporary historical sources such as the Bhatt Vahis and Sarup Singh Kaushish's Gur Kian Sakhian says Baba Banda Singh Bahadur took Amrit. Primary Sikh sources written by Kesar Singh Chibbar, Ratan Singh Bhangu and Giani Gian Singh mention Baba Jee taking Amrit. Even a retard by now would have conceded and accepted the truth which is as clear as day. Yet you still insist on repeating your toota phoota point like a broken record only proves to me you are not interesting in any serious dialogue. You are only here to repeat and spread your anti Sikh propaganda.

Talking about mimicking, the whole Sikh theology is a mimicery of sanatan traditions. so? who are you khalsaji to stop others from the way they want their religion/panth to be? 1000s killed just because of what you perceive as an "insult"? baba Nanak would have approved of such bloodbath over this "insult"? I would call it extreme form of intolerance. truth is Sikhi de thekedar felt threatened by the number of Sikhs following Nirankari faith. it was about golak and nothing else.

If Sikhs are peaceful and are killed it is perfectly okay, but if as a last resort Sikhs fight back against their aggressor then it's a crime.

Instead of looking at Sikhs, perhaps you should first look at how Hindutva terrorists attack and kill Christian women and children when missionaries insult Hindu Gods. Punjab is the only place in India where Christians and Muslims are not killed because Sikhs don't let Hindutva terrorists to carry on any killing there. That is why Sikhs are targeted by them

Sher, please define tat khalsa karam kand?

Protesting against heretic neo nirankaris who start mimicking insulting sacred khalsa traditions of five beloveds, burning sri guru granth sahib ji bir and steping on sri guru granth sahib bir? you consider protesting against sacrilegious acts as tat khalsa karam kand?

Is it any surprise for us that at the time the Hindu media in Punjab fully supported the Nirankaris after they had killed the peaceful Sikh protesters. Neither the killed nor the killers were Hindus, yet why the HIndu media at the time would support the Nirankaris shows their anti Sikh views under the surface. Just a little bit of scratching the surface exposes their hatred as Ekumkaar (aka Sher) exposed his real anti Sikh views recently

Idiotical generalisation. if one person has got provoked by your continuous, nauseous rant against Hindus, and written something even I would not support, does not mean each and every of over 1 billion Hindu population supports it.

Stop giving false account of the OBS. if the Indian government wanted, it could have "neutralised' your "lions" by dropping few bombs. Too easy. no armed carriers, no tanks, no grenade launchers would have been used. The Army units which participated in the OBS (once again it was a botched op and once again it was an avoidable national tragedy) were specifically instructed to not to fire towards Harimandir sahib.

Learn to do some introspection and stop being self-righteous who supports killing people (sodha lagana) if they disagree with tat khalsa karamkand.

if indian army/govt were and are against Sikhs and wanted to destroy harmandir sahib, why no such action (armed forces fighting INSIDE the complex) was taken before and after the OBS?

Oh please, now that your true colous have been exposed don't try and act all innocent. Ecumkaar(your alternative ID) wrote exactly what he meant. He is proud of 84 which he views as a Hindu victory over the Sikhs and Gujarat riots as a Hindu victory over the Muslims. Now that you realize how bad his statement really looks you are trying give an alternative meaning to it.

Listen Einstein, dropping bombs from a plane wasn't convenient nor suitable for the operation. It was carried out by commandos of the Indian army who were trained in precision and surgical strikes. They thought the mere sight of these commandos would frighten the Sikh defenders. These soldiers shot hundreds of rounds towards the direction of the Darbar Sahib. Under pressure of the Indian government, SGPC later sealed those holes against the wishes of the Sikhs who wished for them to remain so our future generations would not forget what the GOI did. The Sikh reference library was burnt by the angry Indian soldiers right after they had won their hard earned victory. They shot in cold blood non combatants who had come there to observe a holiday. You are not fooling anyone with your lies.

Proven wrong ...which point? and what is spreading hatred about? you are justifying killing (!!!) of anyone who opposes Tat Khalsa agenda and for any perceived distortion of sikh history. You, khalsaji, down't own Gurbani. If you look at Guru Granth sahib, not a single word in it has been contributed by a Khalsa. forget that, the word Khalsa (as in Khalsa sikh) does not appear anywhere in Guru Granth sahib. you are a killing people for doing "beadbi" (of karamkand devised by you) of a book which does not even belong to you! Also, could there be a bigger chori than that?

Banda Singh Bahadur point you were proven wrong. I listed a number of sources (Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Puraatan, British) all saying Baba Banda Singh Bahadur took amrit from Guru Jee. But you having no sourse of your own kept repeated your propaganda which proves you are not here for any dialogue. Now you are acting all innocent. We do not tolerate chors who like you distorting our history and religion. Keep your Hindutva BS to yourself.

Until this chor learns to behave on a Sikh forum he should not be given freedom to post his anti Sikh lies here.

Typical reaction ... one of the most respected journalist is an "idiot" in mod edit eyes as he told the truth as it was. None of the parties (Indira, zail singh, Longowal, Tohra, Badal, JSB, Amrik Singh, Subheg Singh, SGPC, Punjab Police...) involved in Op Blue Star can be absolved of its share in what was clearly a botched military action. It was a national tragedy which could have been avoided if a number of actions were either taken well in time or were carried out in a much more professional way.

Fanatics going blastic over Tully's book as there is no room for criticism, counter-argument, sacrifice, selflessness or dissent in their scheme of things (every asset, every right and Sikh panth belongs just to Jat Sikhs. Anyone who disagree is a panth dokhi).

Majority community in india was never bothered about APS Resolution which was, among other glaring flaws (sectarian, casteist), was also sexist. Every state, community has its own problems. Akalis agitated for sectarian Punjabi suba to grab power. Indira gave Punjabi suba after brief agitation (compare it with telengana agitation -decades have passed and 1000s sacrificed their lives to get it approved by the Centre). Akalis/Sikhs reneged when it came to honouring the agreement made to create Punjabi suba.

Tully may be a respected journalist for the majority community. Not Sikhs. The only fault Sikhs have in regards to operation bluestar is that they dared to defend themselves instead of surrendering like cowards against an army which came equipped with all the weapons of a conventional war.

Anandpur Sahib resolution is not castiest and neither is it sectarian or sexist. Show us where before making such blanket statements. It is the HIndus who opposed the Punjabi sooba by disowning their own language(how shameful!). Today Punjab would have been a big state. Punjabi Hindus would have been ruling it had they not disowned their own language by listening to their Arya Samaj leadership. Because of them opposing their own mother tongue, today Punjabi Hindus have become a minority in Punjab, Himachal and Haryana.

Nice song by Sartaaj

Tully is an idiot. He knows if he writes the truth, it will not be a successful hit amongst the majority community of India. He writes whatever his audience(majority community) wants to hear i.e. Sikhs are bad, Bhindranwala bad, Akali Dal bad etc.

His book holds no credibility in my eyes.

Unlike Sikhs we HONDUS BOTH DESERVE and have our OWN nation! We fought to keep our dharma and culture through 1000 years of Muslim attacks!

We killed more mums than you sikhs ever did, and yes when the time came we took them out!

The last ROUND/ FIGHT or war is what counts,

hindus v sikhs first and last war was 1984, and WE HINDUS WON THAT!

Last war with Muslims 2002, and we killed 1000s taking then our too!

U lot with ur false pride and ego are worse than Muslims SO IM GLAD WE TOOK U LOT OUT!

One must take note of the difference between Hindus of ancient times and these modern Hindutva Hindus. Ancient Hindu warriors followed rules even during war time where civilians, non combatants would not be harmed. But these modern Hindutva Hindus only attack non combatants which include women, children and elderly and are also shamelessly boasting of it too.

He is proud of 84 where the well rested and trained Indian army of thousands armed commandos with helicopters, tanks, armered personel carriers, mortars and other sophisticated weapons faced a group of Sikh warriors numbering around 150 who had no combat training or experience in war and were armed with mostly ww1 rifles, hand made bombs yet these 150 warriors fought like lions who gave a bloody nose to the Indian army.

Then he is proud of HIndus who attacked Sikh civilians in Delhi and else where after Indira Gandhi's death. This only shows a man who is proud of cowardly attacks on Sikhs and Muslims is himself big coward.

Firstly we need to understand what our purpose is in human existence from Gurbani's perspective. How many Janams have we wandered in various species not knowing when we will get the priceless human form. Finally when we are now fortunate to be born as humans, Gurbani says it is our turn to have Darshan of Vaheguru by means of practicing Gurmat, Naam Simran and doing Sifat Salah of Vaheguru. Our body is like a temple which should be used for purposes of Bhagti and seva of Guru Maharaj. Life is passing us by so fast. When we are young we think have have a lot of years left not realizing that 1/3 of our life is already wasted on childhood. Then we get married and get so busy with our spouse and children, again 2/3 of our life has passed away. Then by the time we are at old age and death happens and we just wasted this whole human existence on this Dunya.

Bhagti, Rehit, Kirtan and Gurbani should be a part of our daily routine from a young age.

I approved your post to show everyone how true nazi scum you are.

This hate mongering inciting hatred statement of yours should be reported to M15, SCOTLAND YARD..!!!!!!!!!!!!..If cops were to approach, i will glady report your inciteful hatred comment against sikh community.

Personally speaking i m terrified you are a fuc king phd student abroad but then again most nut jobs are... cinema shooter in aurora, norway shooter, islamic terrorist are phd student and phd student in chemistry, you showed hindu terrorist are no different...so what is your next plan? are you planning to blow gurdwara in england? or proxy war with nazi kkk cult against us?

Can someone approach legal authorities in UK to report this scum?

Personally I'm not shocked at this person's views at all. Before posting here, he and Sher(di khal vich Gidhar) were trying to act as if everything started with Sikhs carrying weapons, while pretending the Hindu extremists in Punjab were all innocent and peaceful. But when Singhs here put all the sequence of events in the right perspective and showed these two chors the mirror of reality, they then exploded with their real anti Sikh views. They could no longer hide it. What he has written here is exactly the kind of terrorists that Sant Jee had to deal with and exactly the kind of people that were dancing and distributing sweets after operation blue star.

I don't blame all Punjabi Hindus because vast majority of them are good people and are even following Sikh customs. But their leadership who were heavily influenced by Arya Samaj during the 1947 to the 1990 time period was extremely anti Sikh. They misled Punjabi Hindus into thinking Sikhs are the enemy and must be opposed by all means.

none of the above, you're just a hypocrite, plain and simple.

So true. I have rarely come across such shameless people as him and Ekomkar(who I suspect are the same person using different laptops). I have engaged in dialogue with Muslims, Hindus but this person is not here for a serious dialogue. He gets proven wrong in a point then he still repeats that point again and again. If he is going to do what then what's the point of him to posting on this forum? he obviously isn't here to learn but just spread hatred and distort Sikhi.

I don't understand why these rabid bigots are against me. is it because of the faith they associate me with, is it because of their bubbles which i burst, is it because of the intolerance which i oppose or is it because of their fanaticism which i condemn? idont know which forum this bigot is talking about.

None of the above. It is because of the lies you spread, it is because of the blatant chori of history you do so shamelessly. This site is for people to come and learn about Sikhi, Sikh ithihas, Sikh sabhyachaar not for chors to come and use this as a platform for spreading anti Sikh propaganda.

jathedar sahib jeyo, i have answers to all your questions and much more but the problem is i am muzzled.

There is no room for robust discussion here. I have been asked to leave the holy cows alone.

You have answers for nothing. You are not here for a constructive dialogue. All you do is repeat your lies and propaganda like a broken record. The fact that you insist on repeating points in which have been proven false shows what your ulterior motive is. I applaud the admins of this forum for not allowing you and your buddy ekumkar to use this site as a platform to spread your anti Sikh poison.

I have no problem with Jathadar Jee. Atleast he is making his points in a civilized and brotherly manner. I can respect that even though I may not agree with his views.

You couldnt even understand the words he spoke about God's true court, yet you make out that you understand hidden agendas and words in his actions. Who are you trying to deceive?

Sant Bhindranwale was a straight forward man who spoke the truth from the heart. Yet the urban Hindus who themselves have ulterior motives always tried to create an alternative meaning of his straight forward words.

In Islam we are allowed to marry a women from a different faith as long as she at least believe in the book, and our children are raised as Muslims. So there it is actually not mandatory to convert your partner. I cant speak for other peoples actions. But it is true that it is not mandatory to convert your partner. I know i would never even ask anyone let alone pressure them.

Hi Ali, People of the book are the Christians, Jews and Sabians, while other non Muslims like Sikhs are not considered People of the Book. Further more, this is a gender based ruling. Meaning a Muslim man is allowed to marry a woman from 'the people of the book' but a non-Muslim man (including who one is people of the book) is not allowed to marry a Muslim woman.

I don't blame you for pressuring her to convert to Islam because according Islam you would be liable to go to Jahanam if she remained a non-Muslim(Kafir) because it is considered Haraam for a Muslim man to have sex with a woman who does not belong to the category of Islam or people of the book. And as a Muslim you get brownie points for converting a non Muslim to Islam. So there is certainly pressure for the woman like KDeol to convert to Islam in such a relationship.

From what I have seen, the only desi girls who get into such relationships and end up converting are ones who have family problems or who suffer from low self esteem. They end up sacrificing everything for the man including her family relationships, religion etc. while the man does not make such sacrifices for her.

Can you define a Panth Dokhi then?

one who does sinful actions like killing Sikhs or does beadbi of Guru Mahraj etc